A Glimmer of Hope – Guest Post by Shabbir Merchant
This is a true life experience of Shabbir Merchant, who heads ValueLead Consulting a in Bengalore. When Shabbir narrated this incident to his friends, they suggested he write it down and email it to his friends and acquaintances.
Friends of his emailed it to their friends, in turn and that is how I first heard about this. Here is a “Glimmer of Hope” in Shabbir’s own words:
*** Glimmer of Hope ***
…here goes an interesting experience of interacting with an IPS officer, who made me see a Glimmer of Hope, amidst the corruption that encompasses, so many of our public services ( it is about 7 – 9 mins reading time…).
It was Friday 5th June, at about 3 pm I drove my Ford Ikon car into 80 feet road at Indira Nagar in Bangalore, wanting to reach on time for my 3.30 pm meeting with a client. As I entered the wide road I saw a posse of Traffic Constables who stopped my car on the side and asked me to produce my car documents to the Traffic Sub Inspector(SI) who was standing on the footpath. I walked upto the SI and displayed my Driving Licence, to which he told me to bring my Car Insurance certificate and also my Emission Certificate for the car. I walked back to my car and realised that I had not carried either of the documents in my car and was cursing myself for such a slip. I came back to the SI and told him that I did not have my document and what was to be done. The SI had a half smile & told me that the fine for not carrying both these documents was Rs 600/- however I could pay him Rs 300/-. I removed my wallet and told the SI that I would pay the amount and want a receipt for the same, to which he suddenly grew stern and told me that in which case the fine was Rs 1,100/-. I paid the fine of Rs 1,100/- and took the receipt, wondering why the fine had suddenly escalated just because I wanted a receipt instead of paying the Rs 300 bribe which the SI had asked.
.
After my client meeting as I was driving back, I was annoyed at myself for not carrying the documents and I was angry that at an officer at an SI level was blatantly seeking a bribe. I decided that I should do something about it and as soon as I reached my Home Office, I logged on to the net and found out that the Traffic Police of Bangalore has a website, which gives details of the fines chargeable , it also provides for logging complaints and gave the email ids of the Asst Commissioner of Police for the traffic division. At about 7 pm that evening I wrote an email to the email id of the ACP, narrating the incident of the afternoon and lodging a formal complaint in the email. I also found out the website of Lok Ayukta of Karnataka and marked a cc of the same email to the email id’s given on the Lok Ayukta’s website. By about 7.30pm I had done the needful, and I was happy with myself that what I preach in my Leadership Workshops wrt Values, I had practised to a large extent (Paying the fine instead of paying the bribe and reporting the bribe demand to the best of my ability). I thought the chapter ended there, little realising that I would be having an indeed amazing and pleasant experience on this whole incident in the hours & days to come.
On Saturday 7th June(the next day) at about 2 pm, I logged into my Home Office and checked my email and lo behold, I had 3 emails sent to me by the ACP to who I had written the complaint email the previous day. The first one, informed me that I had done the right thing by paying the fine and not the bribe, the second email asked to give my complaint in writing and fax it to the ACP, so that action can be taken on the SI and the 3rd email asked me to give the ACP a call on his office no or his cell no, so that he could accelerate the action to be taken on the erring SI. I promptly put my complaint in a letter and sent a scanned copy through the email to the ACP.
On Sunday, 8th June in the morning I checked my email and I had an email from the ACP stating that the erring SI had been suspended from services and that I must give the ACP a call to work out the next formalities. I called the ACP (till now I did not know the name of this ACP) who answered my call on the Sunday. During my phone conversation he introduced himself as ACP Pravin Sood, and thanked me for doing what I did wrt not paying the bribe and also escalating the matter in writing, he explained that many Bangalore citizens escalate such cases to him but then back down when asked to give the complaint in writing. He apologised to me (yes – he said “I am sorry for what you faced with this SI who harassed you, because he did not have any business stopping your to check your documents if you had not done any traffic violation”) and he invited me over to Tea to his office at a time convenient to me. After I kept the phone down, I could not believe that here was a case where within 48 hours of an incident of seeking bribe, the erring office was suspended.
I decided that I must meet in person ACP Pravin Sood, speaking with who for 10 minutes had changed a few paradigms in my mind about Public Services Officers. Since I was travelling the next few days, I sought time with him on 15th June at 4.30 pm at his office. I reached ACP Sood’s office a little early (at 4.10 pm) and was pleasantly surprised when I was ushered into his office at 4.15 pm, he asked me to sit as he was completing a meeting with another delegation. At sharp 4.30 pm he ended his previous meeting and turned to me and spent the next 20 minutes discussing with me several aspects of Traffic Policing in Bangalore and offered me a cup of tea (Many corporate clients I visit, do not see me on time and do not ask me for a cup of tea, so what ACP Sood was doing was indeed better than many corporate folks I have met!).
Right through the conversation, he was courteous, frank and completely articulate on his thoughts and ideas. He reiterated that there would be no repercussions on me for giving the complaint in writing, and that I may have to make one appearance in person when the internal enquiry is done, he also offered that instead of me having to come to the Police headquarters to give the statement, he could send one of his officers to my residence to take my statement if I so wish. When I was leaving ACP Sood’s office, I told him “Over the years many of my friends and cousins have urged me to migrate and settle in one of the western countries, but I have consciously chosen to stay back in India by my choice – when I have interactions like the one I had with you ACP Sood, I am happy that I made the choice to stay back in India”. It was an impromptu comment, straight from my heart to which ACP Sood just smiled and shook my hand.
When I was walking out of ACP Sood’s office, I felt reassured that if we have officers like ACP Pravin Sood in our country, there is a Glimmer of Hope, against corruption, provided, we as citizens have the courage to say NO to Bribes and have the inclination to report cases of Bribe (I am no major RTI or Social activist, yet I found all the info I needed on the web, sitting in my Home Office).
Change begins with me, I can make a difference !
*** End ***
Unfortunately, Shabbir’s experience remains a rarity…as some of my past posts reveal:
On Whistle-blowers, Murder and Corruption in high places
“The Godfather of Bangalore†– Excerpts
Related category of posts: Corruption in India
Shantanu,
Thank you very much for putting this up on your website. It is indeed a heartwarming story, but the better message is the last line:
Change begins with me, I can make a difference
Cheers
“Be the change you want to see in the world.†M K Gandhi
Very Inspiring. Thanks for sharing Shabbir.
I will do the same in similar situations now !
Oh this warms my heart and fills me with hope. I could actually break into a song. Thank you so much for posting this story. I not only feel optimistic but also get strength and inspiration from it.
This is seemingly a good outcome. But it is NOT, really. This is not a glimmer of hope, but a sign of how easy it is to fool well-educated Indians!
Let me highlight a few issues.
a) Suspension from service means nothing. It is basically a paid holiday holiday and get your residual pay back in full in due course, as well! Great outcome for the person suspended. Indeed, I had got one not only suspended but then imprisoned for two weeks for corruption; another suspended; yet another imprisoned as part of a major state-wide inquiry. Later, as State Inquiry Officer, inquired into the cases of corruption against many officers, including an officer who was later promoted to IAS from the state services. In none of these case anything happened. The corrupt escaped free 100% of the time.
The process of moving from suspension to prosecution is extremely (!!) time consuming. The process of natural justice requires inquiries of herculean proportions in each case. In this particular case, Shabbir, the complainant, will perhaps receive a request to be personally present at the inquiry after three to four years (the erring constable would have been reinstated with full pay long ago). Shabbir will likely not be available (as happens in most cases) making the matter impossible to prove. Either way, the relevant fax would have likely gone missing long ago. ACP Sood would have changed long time ago and the new ACP who would be represent this case would almost certainly take a bribe to delay this case and lose any other relevant files/data. The emails exchanged between the current ASP and Shabbir would not be traceable nor the events of the day re-created with any authenticity for the purposes of the Inquiry Officer under the law. The inquiry will then drag on for years (three years or more) and finally the matter dropped for lack of proof. Even signed notes accepted by bribe givers are not sufficient proof. Nothing is sufficient to prove corruption, it would appear.
If in the worst case (for the suspended SI) the inquiry seems to be coming to a head (ie. things are falling in place against him), he would get a certificate from a doctor about sickness that makes him incapable of attending the inquiry. And so on and so on. I could go on. In other words, so far nothing has happened, nothing has changed. This is INDIA AS USUAL!
There will always be a few young IAS/IPS bright things who believe they will change India thing by picking on a few bad apples. They are sure to be very miserably disappointed. Indeed, this ACP will be shunted to the most useless jobs in his future career, if he continues in this manner.
b) The underlying matter involved here – incentives driving the chronic corruption – have not been resolved. The thing starts with corrupt Ministers. And that starts with the electoral system. None of that has changed. Therefore, even if in the best case, due to a public hue and cry, this particular case is fixed and the SI DISMISSED (for suspension is totally meaningless), NOTHING would have changed (since 99.999999% of India’s systems would remain the same).
d) The fire of corruption – arising from strong legislative incentives FOR corruption – is so widespread in India that it can’t be doused by one-off cases. It requires systematic reform of the sort I have outlined in Breaking Free of Nehru (http://bfn.sabhlokcity.com).
e) There may be 2% people in the Indian Police with integrity of the type displayed by the Sood. However, in the West 99% of the Police officers (not 100%) possess such integrity. And that is what sets the West (and I mean also places like Japan, Hong Kong and Singapore) apart – uniformly high levels of integrity.
If educated Indians are happy with such rare cases, God be with them! The fool and his money (and even life) are soon parted. Please wake up!! If educated Indians are so easy to fool, the corrupt system will fool them again, and yet again!
This is a totally meaningless event of no relevance to India’s future. To really change things you have to change the incentives in-built into the system.
Join the Freedom Team of India and THEN think of changing India. That will actually succeed, by changing the incentives at work. (http://freedomteam.in/). But that is hard work and I find that 99.999999999% of educated Indians shirk hard work and hard thinking. So good luck! Live on in your world of delusions if you wish…
Regards
Sanjeev
This “glimmer of hope” is nothing but fools paradise. If we are so superficial in our understanding and analysis of what ails India then I see no hope. There couldn’t be a better analysis of what Sanjeev has written.
Kind Regards,
Anil
Sanjeev – what you are saying is perhaps correct.
What is crucial though is that we found in this incident two Indians who showed some determination in fighting corruption. In time, they may find better paths/methods to make a more substantial impact, ….. like you.
Sanjeev, while your analysis is not wrong, it also excludes the facts of the first four comments – as well as the writer’s feelings – preceding you, and many others who read the post and likely felt the same. I sometimes feel that this is a major flaw of objectivist thinking, as is demonstrated by your response, which seems to be very anti-hope, robotic and doesn’t seem to acknowledge that there may be other factors at work.
How many people predicted the Berlin wall coming down? If you’d done a cool-headed, logical analysis on August 23, 1989 when Hungary opened its borders to Austria, I doubt that you would’ve been able to predict that the Wall would come down in less than three months. Even if the world does function in a rational manner, I doubt that we have enough capability to know all the factors that go into it, so any analysis will, by its nature, be incomplete and hindsight is 20/20. So, while I appreciate that you keep us grounded and don’t let us get carried away on wings of false hope, I hope you can leave some space for genuine hope in your analysis too – don’t take this personally, but not everyone thinks/feels/acts like Roark, and thank heavens for that.
[“Bharat bhavnaon ka desh hai”] In India emotions run high, when a village girl gets married, all other women folk cry with her. This is the only way I could explain this hope.
Regards,
Anil
This is quite a good story and I can believe this. I have myself been witness to a lot of evidence in which I see the better side of the officials. I once happened to have crossed a red signal by mistake because a wrongly parked bus was obstructing my view. The constable stopped me and wanted to fine me, which in fact I was willing to pay. As he took out the receipt book, I just indicated to him that it was not entirely my mistake and he wanted me to explain, which I did, in broken Kannada. He said – “Sir – please err on the side of caution next time – can’t see the light, don’t cross the signal” and let me go. I felt that this was one of the occasions when I met the better side.
That said, the ongoing worry of course is that these things never seem to spread out and are always found as exceptions. Any chance we can target increasing the rate of honest sincere policemen a few percentage points a year?
Hey Shabbir have you get your money back ?
I guess No! In this case if you again caught with the same situation, are you going to follow the same path? I again guess No!! unless you are not filled with the ample of money :).
Anyways i guess no body will be offering bribe to these people if the fine amount is not 4*bribe amount, and its within the range of 100(A person driving the car can afford this :), or say 10 for 2 wheeler).
Having discussion with one of my friend In order to eliminate this bribe system, traffic dept can reduce the fine amount and display the penalties fee clearly on traffic signal. I thought people will happly pay the fine instaed to giving bribe. traffic dept should display hording like “Say No to Bribe, Pay the fine – its manageable now :)”.
traffic dept can also make a wealth as well through this and can afford automatic traffic management system like western countries having(you don’t need to go out, fine will comes to your doorsteps).
Shashank: As it is driving/riding in India is completely uncivilized. The fines, if done properly, are the only hope of saving it. If we decrease it, then traffic will get even more messy. Lets not even please think of getting into that path.
Sanjeev: Thought-provoking comment…and you are right…we ought to pause and think of the underlying causes.
I am also (somewhat) surprised that this post attracted so many comments – compared to another story from Bangalore.
People do like to “feel good”.
Dear Shantanu,
I am surprised that as usual we blame the system. I am part of the system so no excuses; but what galls me is that not one mail refers to the requirement of compliance!
If each one of us complies wth many of the simple rules I am sure we will see LESS of corruption.
I am sure our powers will find new means but at least until they source a fresh method we can reduce it.
Let us see: we can carry our Driving licence, Pollution certificate, Insurance policy, Registration certificate and other documents.
We shall commit ourselves not to go even at TWELVE in the NIGHT thru a one way.
We shall commit ourselves to STOP before the STOP LINE. We shall commit ourselves to stop and start when the AMBER comes on.
We shall commit ourselves not o overspeed and leave Ten Minutes earlier.
We shall commit ourselves not to overtake on the left.
We shall commit ourselves to not to go thru a ONE WAY even when a cop is not around.
We shall commit ourselves not to overspeed.
We shall commit ourselves to crfoss the road only at a Pedestrian crossing.
We shall commit ourselves to use the subway when it is available.
If WE COMMIT ourselves then may be we can reduce Corruption. It is UP TO US as the author has said.
Regards,
vck
A
Hi Shashank – my principle is pretty simple – if I make a mistake I pay a fine. Ofcourse, I do not have ample of money to give in fines, but yes I do have ample of values to do what I think is right 🙂
Saurabh’s symptoms are perfect but his diagnosis of underlying cause as being at the top is not quite correct. In a democracy a minister is there because I elect him or my fellow citizens form a majority and elect him by outvoting me. Then the underlying cause lies with the people. As long as my child who goes to the school sees her peers distributing costly items such as chocolates, playthings and what not on their birthday and her father does not follow suit because of inability or otherwise then the emotional burn is lighted up. The competitive consumerism that has pervaded our society has completely eroded any pretence of moral values. Unless we restore the pre-eminence of moral values to lifestyles, we have no remedy to corruption and misdemeanours.
It was great to see so many coments on this story which is inspiring. It was also good to see Sanjeev Sabhlok’s comment which was more of a propaganda for FTI. Practicing and upholding moral values is not easy in a country like India where most of the persons live to die making their basic needs met on a daily basis. Any exception is very refreshing and should be praised.
To All:
For good governance, there should be a say. The present system offers politicians chance to exploit persons on many grounds like religion, caste, language, money, poverty etc. It doesn’t offer many people the chance to be heard… For example myself. I do not find it worthy to go out and vote to choose between options with varying degree of evil. I would find it worthy to vote if I can tell the politicians that you are useless, idiots and incompetent.
@ Rohit: Agree that the exception is refreshing and should be praised…Sanjeev’s point is that it does (almost) nothing to improve the problem in the “system”.
What would your suggestion be (to improve the rot in the system)?
@Krishnan
I see the relevance of your point. Moral values come from a society with high moral values. In India, our own religion does not recognise that a person who has fallen on hard times is in need of collective help because of the idea of Karma (which as far as I can is wrongly interpreted). The suicide of Indian farmers would be an outrage in any other country. A moral failure of this magnitude destroys the compass of any moral value except of the strongest. Moral values can come from religion, ethics, history etc which we have in abundance. Our ancient society was vitally alert to morality, and indeed our two great epics extol the same. It is not that our people do not know what are moral values, but they believe there is no utility in living by them. This is not unlike the breakdown in the moral values of ancient Rome with its defeat but at least for them, they recovered. The defeat of the Hindus of India has been so total that they are living dead even after independence. There has not really been a real break with British rule because their institutions and values remain the predominent values of India which has the cause of soul searching without any end in sight. This has also a great deal to do with the rule of India that passed to the Congress Party which stands for the shabby compromise that is hardly an inspiration to any right thinking Indian. Any takers for making a clean break with that part of Indian history?
To Shantanu:
Two suggestions to improve the governance in India
1) Right to reject
2) Reduce population. India as a country should be having population of around 200 to 300 million.
To Khandu Patel:
It is wrong to say that Indians believe in not living by moral values. As I have seen, my friends, colleagues, bosses, all go by moral values only. It is however difficult to impliment it in practice due to realty. For example,
1) I had to cough out Rs 50 to get a driving license loss FIR registered. I had two options: One was to spend time fighting out and not shelling out Rs 50 the other was to pay the guy registering FIR (Who hardly earns money enough for a decent living… Not because he is worthy of Rs 50… But because he has an opportunity to earn money and won’t let it go in order to meet his needs), save my time and get things done. I opted for the second one. I believe it was a practical and common sense based approach
2) I lost my mobile. I went to Police Station to get FIR Registered. The person asked me for an affidavit before registering FIR. The cost of getting and Affidavit was Rs 50. I got affidavit made and got case registered. Later on my friend told me that if you had paid the guy Rs 50 in Police Station, you would have saved the trouble. I do not know whether it was right for the policeman to ask me for an affidavit but I got it done the way he asked because I believed in what he said.
What I am trying to convey is that we try to follow law to the letter but the overall situation in India makes it difficult for us to do so. Let everyone have a decent opportunity to make money in life as it is in a developed country, you won’t find instances of compromise in moral values. How can you expect moral values to be upheld when Government itself doesn’t pay remuneration (to it’s staff) which is required to live a deecent life? For example, the average annual income of a person working full time in US is $ 45K and that of a house hold is $ 50K per annum. This high income level is not required in India (due to difference in society structure) but in order to live a decent life where you are able to buy a car, eat a healthy food (three times daily), maintain decent daily life style, save for house + essentials required in house, retirement, emergencies and entertainment once in an year, a person needs to start off from an average of around 30 k per month. How many Indians get this start as an average? In a society where life means living in order to die making daily basic needs met on everyday basis, don’t expect morality to be upheld at a large scale. You will find morality in such a society (As is in India) upheld on an exceptional basis and by minority who either are well off or are exceptions.
@ Rohit: Re 1] pl. read this post Say NO to None of the Above
Re 2] I disagree but even if I did, how exactly do you plan to get to 200m from 1.1bn?
@rohit
Disregard of the law in Hindu society has deep roots. Law in ancient Western society formed the bedrock of their polity. They enthrusted that task to their best thinkers and was the basis of their greatness. The Greek kings had their laws written on their pillors at the entrance to their homes. The Persian rulers brought a similar tradition to India. The ancient Romans sent a commission to study Greek laws and had their laws on public display in their 12 tablets.
Manu in ancient Bharat is credited with recording the Hindu laws. In comparison to those of the West, Hindu laws were more a statement of traditions than principles. The fact that they accorded unequal rights to Brahmins have left deep distrust of laws in India from the quite early in Bharat’s history. In modern times, the identification of laws with British rule shot them to pieces with the long running protest movements of Gandhi. In India, it is now a badge of honour for anybody to serve time in prison.
When the laws of India are so unloved, and let us not forget that when people live by the law, their is often very little need to invoke their power in a law abiding society. India’s judicial system is clogged with hopeless cases for years to come for no other reason than to deny satisfaction to the wronged party. There is no greater culprit than the Indian Government which has forestalled the execution of Guru Afzal, or in the recent Delhi judgement. While Indians have to suffer the logjam, a fast track court system is in operatation for Western businesses who would not want to do busines in India any otherwise.
What India has on paper is fine but neither India’s government or its judicial system is fit for the purpose. The ultimate conclusion is that Indians have some way to go before they are fit enough to really make sane choices for they own good. When this state of affairs had obtained in Western societies early in their history, they would have been fortunate to have had a king to rule over them. King Edward I is credited with calling the first English Parliament almost a thousand years ago because he recognised that laws needed to have the consent over them to whom they applied. This cannot be said of Indian laws which unfortunately extends to their effect to theft of funds intended for the payment of public officials.
As Indians are bound to pay bribes for all the reasons I have outlined above, they really need to ponder whether they want to remain signed up to the political order of the day in India. The Hindu political space is carved out in caste loyalties which has done nothing to elevate the best to positions of responsibility and power. It should not be surprising as in the past, that foreigners like Sonia Gandhi has an appeal over those of any other Indians.
I expect the failings of India’s polity to leave a sense of misgiving and anxiety to those of us who grapple with many great problems in our own spheres of activity and ask why India should be enslaved in a mind warp of its making from which it finds escape impossible. The root cause of it has been the lack of felicity of one Hindu to another fellow Hindu. I care nothing for the great claim of our Hindu leaders who offer the world peace. I mean by felicity more than just feelings. I mean generosity in funding for the uplift of Hindu instiutions and for the poor and destitute. It would mean that you should ingratuate less with the wanton waste and show that we have been putting on through out our history. The change has to be so profound that I have doubt that it could ever be made without the imposition of pain and curtailment of freedoms.
To Shantanu:
I have read and commented on 49 O. I am for it. Rejection of idiots and incompetents should not be opposed. The rejection even if only a record with no effect would pave a long way in rise of competents in politics. For example the best government we had in entire history of India’s independence was that of PV Narsimha Rao who rose to highest level because incompetent GANERU clan decided to cool heels for some time and stayed away from politics.
POPULATION:
One needs will power to drive population control. Carrot and Sticks approach is best with lieniency in death punishments for scums of society like smugglers, human traffickers, significant financial scam initiators, rioters, seperatists etc. Difficult will be to control Christians and Muslims torch bearers but with laws like that of Singapore where Mullahs have to submit their discourse before doling it out in mosque will do. Development and population control have to go hand in hand if we need to create society where everyone can live life to live and not live to die, making daily needs met on everyday basis. Other wise, there is a more cruel answer to mismanagement. The answer is provided by nature or a long war.
To Khandu:
Every ciilization/ society goes through peak and downfall.
Coming down to law and order… General public does follow order but needs to be both motivated and driven to follow order. How can you expect law and order when needs are more than resources? Law and order ceases when needs are not met. This is true for western society too. For example, US and Australia were founded on state racism. Look more into the law and order situation in west during times of difficulty or when needs of population were not met. In India too, law and order was not great till East India Company ruled. Law and order and good governance was provided by British Rule post 1857. Go back (iggy Mughals who can only provide sharia) and look whether there is mention of any chaos during rule of other great kings like Chandragupta, Ashoka… Foreigners (Chinese) have also quoted on their rule and society in general.
Exceptions only prove the rule. But nevertheless what Shabbir did, needs to complimented.
@Rohit
It would seem that the period of Ashoka’s rule was the golden period in Indian history if one excludes the mythical age of the Mahabarat and Ramayana. It should also be remembered that Hinduism was sidelined during his rule in favour of the inclusiveness of Bhudism. The fact is that Bhudism did not survive Ashoka and Hinduism with all its problems was reinstated. The society it produced did not meet the standards of the powers by which it was challenged even then. It was Greek poltical and military superiority that defeated Bharat under Alexandra and the domination continued under Greek Bactrian kings after him. Into modern times, just about any and everybody has ruled India. The old type of military conquests are no longer necessary or cost effective. You can already see under Sonia Gandhi, a stealthy takeover has taken place. Many of the ministries are filled by her Christian followers. As they prove to be more effective than the corrupt Hindu counterparts that we have been used to having, they have already become the de facto new rulers. A quiet take over has already taken place. I regard this as a positive development because if Hindu society cannot get away from its inherent state of stasis, it will simply be driven into obsolescence.
India’s virgin land gave rise to rich culture but it has also created habits that have been expensive to satisfy. Whereas Christianity et al, all preach denial and vows of poverty for the attainment of salvation, our religion does exactly the opposite. I find it hard to see how greed that is created as a consequence can ever be satisfied. This is where our moral order has floundered and created counteless opportunties for Bharat’s enemies to establish their footholds. That has not changed with every relevation thefts and scams out doing the preceding it.
The community that is being connected by the discussions taking place here is a beginning. A great deal of work needs to be done.
Ramayana and Mahabharata are not mythical… It cannot be proved… For example, Bhagwad Gita, part of Mahabharata, is science. Western version of Indian history is not formed on basis of science/ logical reasoning. Western Indian History theory was formed and reasons allocated afterwards. For example Big Bang is a theory, a farce… Darwin theory is a lie, farce. Indians knew about nine planets, solar system, earth is not flat, how to calculate time, year etc before rest of the world would have had any idea about the same. You need to find why Indians knew all this and why the knowledge went away… In other words, we have a glorious past… Problem is with thought process which declined with progress of time.
India has been ruled by many… Sonia Gandhi… Christians etc.
Britishers were good, better and more effective rulers than current set of jokers from 1947 onwards. Coming down to hardly educated waitress, you need to study Congress history… Congressis have a tradition (Started by Gandhi, Nehru) to unite under a name Gandhi who are incompetent and then rape, loot and pillage the country. Nehru/ Gandhi passed on leadership style… Make me leader (by propaganda) and I will allow you to loot, murder, pillage country… They (GANERU Clan) deliberately kept people of India poor, uneducated so they could exploit them. GANERU Clan also kept Muslims in India post partition for ease of rule. GANERU Clan also promoted religious conversions for survival.
We allow them to rule… We do not voice support for rejection of evil politics (Section 49 O) and are pleased to choose between political parties and leaders with variying degree of evilness. Interact with a common person… Ask him why does he vote and what benefit he has got from voting… He will be dumbfounded after five to ten minute of talk.
@Rohit
I have described the Mahabharat and the Ramayana as epics in the same way as the legend of Troy. That is not to say that they did not happen or exist. The stories all speak of Gods with great powers: that is not history by any measure of the yardstick. Troy is mythology for sure because the world has cease to believe their actors as Gods. As for the Gita and the Ramayana, their religious content are matters of faith.
Ramayana is not religious. It is chronicled documentary of a great person. Bhagwad Gita is science.
To Khandu Patel:
Please understand what is religion. Religion is Christianity, Islam etc… In other words blind faith in work of collective written stupidity. What we have is sanatan (since time immortality) dharma and there is no equivalent word for dharma in english.
Guys: Pl. keep this post for discussion on the main topic.
There are numerous posts on this blog on Ashok, Mahabharata, Ramayana etc.
Pl. use the “Search” box at the top of the “Categories” drop down menu at the bottom.
Side conversations do not add to the discussion and can be confusing.
Thanks.
Ok that # 32 explains why my coment was not getting posted… Simply put together, the problem of law and judiciary in India is related to politics we have in country and the support we give to the system by remaining mute spectator. Reduce population, let everyone have access to basics of life which enable them to live life to live, problems will disappear.
@Rohit
Polity which underpins economics and politics in any society does not come in a tidy package. India had a population of 250 million at independence when it was considered overpopulated. Now it four times that.
You wish to reduce India’s population. Are you aware of the implications of your wish. Societies when their population have expanded have gone to war as a release valve for the tensions that came with the increased demands on limited resources. Success provided opportunities and failure would solve the problem by the death of the excess population. Industrialisation in modern times broke that cycle and transferred to strain to the environment. This explains why it is not too hard to understand why Pakistan has waged war against India apart from the deep loathing and hate it has for our country.
If you are willing to go down the road I am suggesting, you will also have to live by a different paradigm. Life and death situations makes transformation vitally necessary for survival. Outmoded methods and practices will pay the price of natural selection of those willing to adapt and change: including idealogies and even religions.