What about reforms in Hinduism?
In response to my previous post, a loyal reader emailed me and asked, what about reforms in Hinduism? or did I think that Hinduism was perfect and really did not need any changes?
That question prompted this post…Now, I have written on this subject before (pl. see list of related posts at the end) but I realised there was still some value in enumerating what is “wrong” with Hinduism and what needs to change for the better…
So here is my first cut (and I must say that this is an amateur’s attempt – I am by no means a scholar on Hindu-ism; more an interested observer…and of course a practising Hindu)… Please add your own thoughts and please do comment freely – especially those of you who have read far more widely than me – and are better versed in our philosophical/ religious texts.
How can we make Hindu-ism “better” or more in tune with our current lives? Here are some thoughts (in no particular order):
- Dowry: Publicly declare that Dowry is illegal and goes against the respect and honour accorded to a woman in Hinduism
- Untouchability/ caste-based discrimination: Unequivocally condemn anyone who indulges in this practice or condones such acts of others.
- Female foeticide: Anyone found guilty of female foeticide must be publicly named and shamed by the Acharya Sabha, the Shankaracharyas and community leaders…
- Temple entry: Seek free and unfettered entry to every temple (subject to regulations established by the trustees – such as no entry during the late hours) for every Hindu, regardless of caste, sex and birth, participation in every ritual/custom and access to every privilege which hitherto was limited only to certain classes (e.g. the “right†to become a priest or to conduct a “poojaâ€).
- Treatment of Widows: Unequivocally condemn the shameful treatment of widows in society – especially in Vrindavan and Mathura – and do something for the painful plight of child widows. For more, pl. read this post…There is some hope though.
- Cleanliness in Temples: I have written about this before: Why are our temples so dirty?
Are these things enough? Almost certainly not…
So please add your own thoughts…Looking forward to everyone’s responses, comments and suggestions.
Related Posts:
Hinduism, Caste System and discrimination – Join the debate
Utterly shameful and�inexcusable�
Adjacent Posts: A Valentine’s Day “fatwa†and The last word on “Waterâ€
Thank you very much for the link, Shantanu, and highlighting these issues. They very much need the attention as much as we can give them.
for female foeticide, please have a look at
http://unwantedgirlchild.blogspot.com .. or google Unchaahi.
Many thanks. We’ll be in touch.
-roop
Here is my take on the reforms in Hinduism.
Hinduism has never been static. The reason is, there is no single or even a last prophet, no “Final Book” or the Last Word of God as revealed on an ongoing basis or various”Books of Apostles”. These latter exercises have created polarization between Abrahamic religions. Hinduism has seen reforms through ages, from the Vedic era itself. Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan has published a treatise by Dr. SR Sarma, “Hinduism Through Ages”, which succinctly discusses how Hinduism has developed. There have been philosophers and social activists such as Swami Vivekananda and Maharshi Dayanand Saraswati. If Hinduism had been reform-less India would have been Talebanized long before the advent of, for instance, Islam or aggressively proselytizing like the Christian missionaries are doing in Orissa in India and other countries. Upanishads and even Bhashyas by Sri Adi Shankaracharya bear witness to it. Can anyone do such a thing – such as writing commentary on sacred books in other dominant religion and still live the light of the next day?
The dowry, caste system etc. have become social problems rather than Hinduism-generated issues.
Even in this age and times, we have thinkers who interpret Hinduism and give their views. There is an interesting presentation by Dr. Raman Gokal, “Tenets of Hinduism”. I believe this is one of the best sites on understanding Hinduism, and see how it has come this far without being labeled (except by secularists media in India) as fundamentalist way of life.
Gypsy: Great comment…
I tend to agree that “…dowry, caste system etc. have become social problems rather than Hinduism-generated issues”…that said, since our society is largely Hindu, we must take a stand on these (I feel)
Thanks for the tip on “Tenets of Hinduism”…I recall having seen it before…
Here is a link for other readers…Pl. be aware that this a 95-slide .pdf file / large download.
Thanks, Shantanu. I agree with you completely. We do need to make a concerted effort in this direction. That can happen only if Hindus can hold their heads high and say with pride that they ARE Hindus and not APOLOGIZE FOR BEING HINDUS as secularists do.
When I was working in London, I was interviewing a Pakistani refugee woman who came to social services for help. During form-filling, this lady was in tears through out the interview. When I came to the question, “What is your religion?” This lady stopped crying. She held her head high, and with pride in her voice said, “Islam, Islam is my faith, my imaan!” I admired this lady for her courage and wistfully pondered, ‘only if my learned, powerful secular media people could feel the same kind of pride in their being Hindus and say so with courage and pride!’
*** COMMENT COMBINED ***
Vivekananda was a “status-quoist” and a very poor philosopher. Raja Ram Mohan Roy was the real social reformer of Bengal, but it is interesting to me how we always seem to neglect him in favour of Swami “dear brothers and sisters” Vivekananda. And, if you want an original philosopher, look no further than Sri Ramakrishna Deb, who worshipped his wife as a symbol of divinity and shakti.
“…dowry, caste system etc. have become social problems rather than Hinduism-generated issuesâ€
Really??? I also believe that the earth is flat.
And, Shantanu: While your list is interesting, I think condemnation of others is not enough. We should also resolve that we will take the first steps and we will personally not be guilty of any of the above and we will stop others from being abusive, as well, to the best of our limited powers.
Cheers
***
Also, Shantanu, I do not want any acharyas/shankracharyas to condemn anything …. that is meaningless. We are not a top down monolithic culture. And, who are these shankracharyas anyway?
The condemnation has to come from us, the people.
cheers
Dear Shantanu,
I do understand and fully appreciate your concern. All these issues without exception are reprehensible and must be eradicated sans any more delay.
However, my only worry is that, should we connect every malady that is afflicting the society to the religion, in this case, Hinduism? Except the two issues that is, the temple entry and the temple cleanliness, even these too to some extent only, I wonder, how others are caused by Sanathana Dharma. I think, I could be wrong also, these are necessarily social evils. Otherwise, why are we not finding any mention of them in any of our scriptures? Why these are not prevailing universally among Hindus? Why the very same or modified versions of these illness are seen in other communities?
My contention is that we are first social beings and then follow the respective religion. When we overlook this fact, unknowingly of course, we tend to put all problems at the door of the religion. I think this is unfair. Furthurmore, it is also giving a whip in the hands of the fashionable anti Hinduism.
Please think about these aspects too.
Regards
Kartha
REFORM of HINDUISM?
will any one tell me wht is hinduism? is going to temple is hinduism? is reading vedas & other granths are hinduism? is getting sati is hinduism? is caste system is hinduism? if all the answer is yes, then we shd agree that there is need to reform. but all this rules or guideline are setup by whom? are we really following hinduism? do we know the real hindu means?
i m not a professor or resercher . i m just giveing my view wht i think or know, may be i m wrong but if u think u will find some practical ans.for all we hindu “BHAGWAN RAMCHANDA” is ultimate god. we can say whtever bhagwan ram said shd be consider as rules for hindu to follow after them. do we have sati pratha at that time? did we had achuat(untouchability) system that time. were widows was consider as aliean that time? or many more question can be asked . most of answer will be no.
wht we follow today is not pure hinduism, it is a cocktail or modefied hinudism. after lord ram’s era brahmin modified many things for there personal benifit.as shudra was always poor or working class, they started showing them as bad just to impress baniyas who is a upper class.brahmin which is consider as god’s priest or main follower of dhram or hinduism started makeing there own rules. to save young widows from mugal or other anti social elements sati pratha started. as second marriage was not consider or heard that time , young widows was an easy target of male hunger, to protect them from that humilation or we can say to protect there social status(if a widow will get pragent ) sati pratha started. we all know bharat was always under various ruler. and everytime a muslim ruled us he modified our beliefs to misguide us. in islam there is discremenation of women. in hindu we always consider woman as our mother or godess.now all this dowary or other female problem is islamic ruler gift to us. which we grab from both hands and made a part of our culture.
a true hindu won’t belive in discremination. yes there is caste system in our granth but that is just to diffranciate who will do wht job better. as baniyas are good in bussiness work, kshatriyas are good for ruleing and brave heart, brahmins are good for dharmic work, and shudras are good for labour work. but this doesn’t means one is superior then other. this is made to get optimum utilisation of one’s capacity. all four will work toghether to society benifit.”hinduism is not very complex subject, it is simple base on live and let live dharam.there is one almighty above all us and we shd do all work considering we are doing his job.”
but now we are really confused abt good and bad, now wht is good for us is good and wht doesn’t is bad. when a vip person wanna have dharsen he can visit temple anytime but when a simple person wanna he will have to wait long.it is in our mind whthere we accept it or not. even today we consider second marriage as taboo. we all are two face ppl we will support second marriage but will not allow our son to marry a widow. we will oppose dowary outside, but will ask or accept dowary in any form. we will say out temples are not clean but will liter most or will not stop our children from littering. any dharam is madeup of ppl who follows it. yes there is some modification as society changes, but the main basic principal shd remain same. now hinduism has lost it’s principal of equality and harmony.
if we really want to bring any reform in hinduism we have to reform ourself first. we have to learn to sacrifies our need for social cause. will anyone of us dare to drink water from there garbage collector’s hand? or how many of us have had food with beggers? it is easy to give them money or food then really considering them as one of us.we need to reform this thinking.
I agree with Shantanu that there is an urgent need for reforms in Sanatana Dharma. I add the following additions to reforms list by Shantanu.
1)Hindu Temples should be under the control of the Dhramasabha and not under the government. This is to ensure that Hindu money is utilised for the betterment of Hindus and not for Muslims or Communists.
2) Establish a Madrasa or Sunday school type of schools associated with the Temples for the religious education for the Hindu children.
3) Establish Tantric schools for training Hindu Priests. THis should establish uniformity in Temple rituals and other rituals like Marriage, Namakaran, Grihapravesh, Funerals etc. throughout India
4) Dharmasabha should establish norms for the functioning of the various mutts and regulate the godmen who bring so much disrepute and ridicule on Sanatana Dharama.
Patriot, Dr Kartha, Tarun and Manoj: Thanks for your thoughts…I will comment in some more detail later today.
i guess nothing can be perfect… every religion every country has its own share of imperfection… and if hinduism has its own share of imperfections…. nobody has a right of making a big deal out of our imperfections..
*** COMMENT COMBINED ***
First becoming sati was not in the Hinduism but some women’s used to do it on their own wish and showing their trust and love towards their husnabd. But than it became the part of hinduism. But not all women thought to do it!
some widow never married again because they loved their husband and wanted to remain true to their husband also after his death, but it became the part of hinduism. But not all women wanted to remain alone reamining life.
So conflict started, those who dont remarry or become sati became more respectful than those who are not following these traditions.
These are my observations. More on next comments.
***
Dowry is unique for all community.
I was surprised when my grandma said that during her mother and grandma times boy side use to give dowry to women parents. And the reason was good,cultured girl from good family background and ratio of women was less( may be in my community)so it was like a rush for first catch than to remain without women. And also because Marriages in the community use to be pronounced after every 12 years. If they dont rush they will be left out for not marrying another 12 years.
Think with a calm n cool mind.
* Do these evils really belong to Hinduism? Which scripture says that dowry has to be given? Is there a scriptural justification? If not, is this not a problem of society going morally bankrupt?
* Your comment
“Gypsy: Great comment…
I tend to agree that “…dowry, caste system etc. have become social problems rather than Hinduism-generated issuesâ€â€¦that said, since our society is largely Hindu, we must take a stand on these (I feel)”
My response:
“Bribery and corruption in daily life is also affecting the society. This evil is the highest, compared to anything else. Now should we reform hinduism to get rid of bribery and corruption, since our society is largely Hindu?” Should we go and blame our culture for this social vice?”
I think, it is very important to put things in right perspective. Hinduism from the spiritual stand point of view was never bad. It is the misuse of power combined with greed that has brought disgrace to the society. Let us not burden Sanathana Dharma with unconnected guilts.
In kaliyug, the moral degradation is a common phenomenon. This is the time, where souls from the hellish regions complete their terms and are born here to work out new karma.
On Caste System:
– As a Hindu why should one be so apologetic about having a caste-based division? It is necessary to understand that unnecessary denigration of castes that are lower in hierarchy is wrong. Being born in an upper caste does not necessarily make one superior, but most often makes one egoistic and unwarranted pride. This is true of most of the average unevolved souls. Due to the merits of past deeds may acquire birth in a good family. Due to bad samskaara’s one may be born into neecha yoni.
– There is a reason to believe that caste division has scriptural sanction. Our epics contain stories that illustrate this point.
— King trishanku (this name was given to him, due to being afflicted with 3 curses) became a chandala due to bad merits. He was given ascent to heaven due to the merits (tapas shakti) of sage Vishwamitra.
— Harishchandra became a chandala due to the curse of sage Vishwamitra. He regains his glory, after undergoing through a lot of trials.
— Modern saint Kanaka Dasa was borne into a shepherd family. He was denied entry into the famous Udupi Shri Krishna temple. Finally, his devotion was so strong that Shri Krishna’s statue itself has turned its face towards the direction of Kanaka Dasa.
So, the caste system itself is not either good or bad. Its just a division based on necessity of the society. people of all castes must be treated with equal reverence.
Reforms are very much needed. But in my humble opinion, they are needed for the society and the people, and not really for Hinduism.
On Dowry:
– Your comment:
“Dowry: Publicly declare that Dowry is illegal and goes against the respect and honour accorded to a woman in Hinduism”
– My response:
“Dowry is very much a social evil and never never a religeous one. It is a public knowledge that taking of dowry is a crime under our law. So, may I know, what else public declaration is required?
The root cause of dowry is “Greed for money”, and hence its very foolish to believe that Hinduism means greed for money!”
On untouchability:
– Here again, why should we necessarily lead ourselves into the dirty tricks of communists and secular band wagon that Hinduism practices untouchability? There is no scriptural sanction for this. Why not we consider bringing in an awareness that separates untouchability and hindu spiritualism. Let us say that Untouchability is a social evil afflicting hind society, and not ‘because’ of hindu society.
On Femal Foeticide:
Argued similarly, this also falls into the category of a social crime, and never a religeous crime. No god/demi-god or sage had ever preached this philosophy.
I think finally the need is to tell the world that that these are all the problems afflicting the hindu society and not because of hindu society.
Hari OM
All: Thanks for a very thought-provoking discussion…Below are my responses
***
Patriot and Tarun: Both of you have said taht we must first practice what we preach…I agree completely…As Patriuot has suggested, we should “personally not be guilty of any of the above” and also try and stop others to the extent that we can…
Tarun: You also raise the point of what exactly is Hinduism…This is a topic on which far more educated people than me have commented and yet a consensus is hard to obtain…If Hinduism means “Sanatan Dharma” than none of these evils apply…but then “Sanatan Dharma” as most of you reading this would know is not really a “religion”…In fact the word “Dharma” itself is wrongly applied to religion – which should better be termned as “panth”..
Regardless, there are many issues which *apparently* have some kind of scriptural sanction in Hinduism (perhaps through mis-interpretation and/or practice over the years) and these cannot be overlooked… As you say, “..to being any reform in Hinduism, we have to reform ourselves first”..
***
Dr Kartha and Ravindranath: Both of you raised a very important point which set me thinking…Are these problems really social evils which are blamed on religion?
You are right that at least some of these practices (e.g. untouchability, caste-based discrimination) are also found (although rarely) in other religious communities in India…so why dont we blame their religion for them?
Let us look at my list once agin:
Dowry: Perhaps this has no religious sanction…at the same time, given that this practice is widespread in India, would not its condemnation by religious leaders carry any weight? (Patriot: You ask: who are these Shankaracharyas anyways? OK, perhaps they do not have the same moral/spiritual authority as the Pope but for a large number of Hindus, they are respected and revered and what they say will no doubt carry weight – perhaps more so than if a politician or social reformer says the same thing(s), I feel)
Untouchability: This is a tricky area…and something on which I have written in the past on my blog. Regardless of whether this has religious sanction or not, the fact is that Dalits are not allowed entry into certain temples and a vast majority of them cannot become priests – even if they wish to and even if they are willing to be trained…I feel this needs to be condemned unequivocally…and categorically. If this does not have religious sanction (as I believe too), Hindus should boycott temples where Dalits are not allowed…What do you think?
Female Foeticide: More of a social evil, I agree…perhaps should not be included here.
Temple Entry: As above (re. untouchability)
Treatment of Widows: Again, perhaps has no direct scriptural sanction but the fact is that the pandas of Vrindavan and Mathura thrive on the helplessness and plight of these widows…Should not we as Hindus say that these “pandas” are wrong and there is absolutely no reason to bar a widow from re-marrying or otherwise leading a normal life?
Cleanliness in Temples: Perhaps less to do with reform of Hinduism than reform of (current) Hindu attitudes towards cleanlinesss!
But what finally made me lean towards Ravindranath’s conclusion (“these are problems afflicting the Hindu society not because of Hindu society”) is anecdotal evidence re. the prevalence (or not) of these “evils” amongst various communities…For instance, you will see less of these “evils” in Maharashtra compared to say UP. It may partly be due to the fact that there have been a number of reformers in Maharashtra (and in Bengal, for example) than, say UP or Bihar…But if this is true, then Ravindranath is right – these are problems that affect Hindu society but they are not caused by religion…Perhaps I am mixing/confusing cause and effect?
What do others think? Thoughts/comments welcome.
I refer to the commentator at #5 of responses. I am afraid he/she does believe that the earth – or his/her thinking is flat. I was hoping that he/she had looked at the original concept of Vedic occupation-based Varna structure where there was free movement between Varna. If its degeneration into the modern day caste system is not due to sociological problems, what is it? Even Manu Smriti was based on the prevailing social thought, not on the authority of the RgVedic Purusha Sukta, which …. Any way, what is the use of pouring water on a flat stone?
We are not comparing personalities/thoughts/philosophies of Raja Ram Mohan Roy or Swami Vivekananda. That said, to each his own! By which I mean, perception. It is how one perceives an elephant. He/she has picked the tail to describe the great pachyderm.
Temples should become an integral part of the society and should provide more social services to the society at large.
Priests should get more involved with their devotees and try to make their lives better.
Temples attract different kind of people and can become a kind of FaceBook kind of place of aggregation where people get an opportunity to meet others and become a more cohesive society.
In this way priests are uniquely placed to help the society by connecting people who can give with people who need.
*** COMMENT COMBINED ***
@ Gypsy:
“I was hoping that he/she had looked at the original concept of Vedic occupation-based Varna structure where there was free movement between Varna. If its degeneration into the modern day caste system is not due to sociological problems, what is it?”
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
How does it even matter today, what the original intentions were? Are you living in a vedic society, following the four stages of life as described/prescribed in the vedas?
And, if you have read Vivekananda’s writings on the caste-system, you will find exactly the same stuff – oh, our great vedas did not justify caste. That is why I called him a status-quoist, unlike Raja Ram Mohan Roy who waded forward to reform Hindu society. He did not write any books, btw.
Shantanu, why don’t you invite some dalits to comment on this topic and see what they have to say (I think I made this suggestion earlier) – might open the eyes of all those folks who say that these practices are without religious sanction. They might get to learn some ground reality.
***
Comments of Ravindranath: These are hilarious and ironically exposes his casteist mentality –
On one hand: “King trishanku (this name was given to him, due to being afflicted with 3 curses) became a chandala due to bad merits. He was given ascent to heaven due to the merits (tapas shakti) of sage Vishwamitra.
— Harishchandra became a chandala due to the curse of sage Vishwamitra. He regains his glory, after undergoing through a lot of trials.â€
And, on the other hand: “So, the caste system itself is not either good or bad. Its just a division based on necessity of the society. people of all castes must be treated with equal reverence.â€
If the latter remarks are correct, then what is the problem of Trishanku or Harischandra …. they should be perfectly happy, right? And, if being a chandala is such a bad thing, then the latter comments can not be right, right?
And, I really see no reason why or how anyone can justify the existence of caste today. A blot on Indian society and polity. One of the worst forms of racial discrimination and apartheid.
*** COMMENT COMBINED ***
Dear Shree Patriot,
1. My reference to the historicity of ancient kings is for the illustration of the point that there was a scriptural sanction to the caste based division!
In the famous Lalitha Sahasranaama, there is a verse which identifies the divine mother as the creator of ‘Varnashrama Dharma’
[quote]
##285\. Abrahma Kita Janani
She Who Is The Mother Of Everything From Brahma To The Lowliest Insect
##286\. Varnashrama Vidhayini
She Who Established The Order Of The Social Division In Life
##287\. Nijagya Rupanigama
She Whose Commands Take The Form Of The Vedas
##288\. Punya Apunya Phala Prada
[/quote]
It is possible that the human race was graded along these lines, owing to the level of spiritual evolution (or more aptly, the accumulation of good/bad samskaaras) attained.
If we look at a case where among two individuals, one is made a manager, and another is made a peon, we cannot conclude that peon is in general bad, and manager is a superior. They have been placed in their respective position due to the respective merits/demerits and capabilities.
2. For your info, I am not a person with a “casteist” mentality. Even though I am from a brahmana family, I had rented out my house to a family that classifies as lower caste. I do mingle with all kinds of people, eat and drink with them, subject to cleanliness.
Hope this makes it clear. Requesting you to refrain from calling names and making bad personal remarks !
regards,
RV
Hari OM.
***
Very nice writeup
“The Caste System_A Report by Hindu Council UK.pdfâ€
that I found in this same website, under the listing “Docs & slidesâ€, is probably worth going through.
Regards,
RV.
Hari OM
Response to Comment #16.
btw, Raja Ram Mohan Roy DID write some books. You could authenticate your comment by doing some research. In 1815, Raja Ram Mohan Roy composed Vedantagrantha, which is a brief summary of Vedanta Sutras in Hindi and Bengali. His “Gaudiya Vyakaran†in Bengali is the best of his prose works. By translating the scriptures of Hindus into Bengali, he gave Bengali a new dignity. He also translated the New Testament into Bengali with the help of Baptist Missionaries. In 1820, he published the ethical teachings of Christ, entitled “Precepts of Jesus, the Guide to Peace and Happinessâ€. These publications not only established Ram Mohan as modern exponent of the Vedanta school of Hindu Philosophy, but also as a spiritual nonconformist.
The best-known of his writings is Tahfatat-Muwahhiddin, or, a Gift to Deists, Eng. transl. Calcutta, 1884; his Eng. works were edited by Jogendra Chunder Ghose, 2 vols., ib. 1885-87, and appeared also with a transl. of the Tahfat-al-Muwahhiddin, Allahabad, 1908.
As for caste system, I have already said that the ancient Varna system degenerated into the present caste system. You cannot blame the religion for the malpractices of the elites.
Swami Dayanad Saraswati one of the reformer.
@ kc: Good suggestion about making temples some kind of social hubs…sadly the version of “Hinduism†that you see there (today) is at best, un-exciting and at worst – hard to put faith in.
Sometimes I think we need a temple reform movement on its own…
***
@ Patriot: Yes, I think you had suggested inviting some Dalit commentators over on the blog (although I cannot remember the context now)…Good suggestion and I will go over at some Dalit blogs this weekend and post a link inviting their thoughts…Feel free to do so on your own too if you know of such blogs already…
***
Ravindranath, Gypsy, Indian: Thanks for contributing to the debate.
@ Gypsy:
I am aware that Raja Ram Mohan Roy wrote a couple of treatises ….. my comment was made sarcastically vis-a-vis Vivekananda, who mainly wrote books and lectured the world. RRMR waded into the filth and reformed bengal’s society. The adage prevalent pre-independence of “What Bengal thinks today, India thinks tomorrow” was primarily due to the forward thinking of RRMR, who was followed by other reformers. I just do not count Vivekananda as one. But, that is only my opinion. Others can hold diff opinions.
RE: Indian, absolutely agree re: Dayanand Saraswati. Yet, the reforming societies/organisations set up by DS and RMRR – the arya samaj and the brahmo samaj – seem to have disappeared. Instead, Hindu society’s new faces seem to be the goons of VHP and Bajrang Dal.
While I too agree that majority of the points are social evils. But have some observations –
Not too sure if this is relevant in the context. I think to a large extent educated and intellectuals are have the right interpretation and understanding of the teachings and the underpinnings of Hinduism.
The challenge is its misinterpretation and misrepresentations among the uneducated and underprivileged in the society. Some of the distortions that we see today are largely due to the misinterpretations. Not sure if we need an organized mass movement (certainly not the political kind that VHP, Bajrang Dal etc..do) to create awareness about Hinduism and its correct teachings.
And among the learned, important is to refresh the basics..we all know that it has great basisc etc…but unfortunately like other religions we don’t make Hinduism our way of life..we don’t put into our daily lives.
Brahmo samaj was hybrid entity that made a kichdi of all religeous principles, to put forth its version. It condemned the hindu form of worship of statues, and instead propagated abstract form of worship. Probably, this is why, it soon died out.
Bharat is still in integral shape because of nationalistic organizations such as VHP, RSS. If it were not for them, more than 50% the country could have been christianized/ islamized.
What we have in West Bengal is a set of communist thugs, who always side with moslems and missionaries.
Shantanu:
An excellent compilation for reform;
May I add another to the list.
Temples have the propensity to raise funds for “Golden Palki (Palanquin)”; or coating roofs with gold or silver and such superfluous projects; Temples should be required to spend funds on health, education and welfare of the community. Build colleges, schools and ashrams for widows and the elderly. Take care of the aged cows which are sent to slaughter houses.
Help enhance the welfare of the community – develop venture-capital type funds; primarily micro-finance level.
Instead so such things, temples seem to collect precious community wealth in gold and silver of “the gods.”
We definitely need reform!
Proud to be a WHAT!!! Are you really out of your mind?
Hinduism has created societies where female infanticide, foeticide, selling own children, prostituting own daughters, child labor etc come naturally. How often do you hear such things from other countries? Very, very rarely. Such news become exceptional news in other countries. In India it’s common news. The child sex ratio — girls to boys — has fallen so steeply that we have actually killed a million little Indian girls in a decade. Slaughter on that scale in Rwanda in 1994 was called genocide. Garv se kaho hum Hindu hain.
Hinduism has helped make us to be one of the highest corrupt nations (at all levels) in the world. No need to elaborate on that. Less said is better. Garv se kaho hum Hindu hain.
We live filthy (one of the filthiest country in the world, slums or no slums). We spilt even inside buildings and pee on the streets. We have people eating, drinking and defecating all in the same place. I am a proud…. Whatever changes we are seeing today towards cleanliness is an import. It doesn’t come naturally to us. Garv se kaho hum Hindu hain.
Hinduism has helped us create extreme poverty in spite of having maximum natural resources in the world. If many other poor nations in the world had even 1/4th of the resources that we have, they would not have been poor. But we beat them all. We can find grubby children begging at every corner. Heaps of garbage with pigs and more kids rooting in them. Garv se kaho hum Hindu hain.
Atithi devo bhavo! What crap? Other nations don’t have this slogan, but treating outsiders with respect and care comes naturally to them. Here (forget foreigners) I will thrash a Bihari in Bombay for coming here. Why? Because that’s all how much Hinduism has evolved me. Garv se kaho hum Hindu hain.
One of the popular slogans of the Sangh Parivar is Garv se kaho hum Hindu hain. To be ruthlessly honest, all the above is a proof that Hinduism has failed to generate higher souls and higher society. We are living is self imposed delusion with a false sense of pride. Whatever explanation that anybody tries to give me for this will not cut any ice with me, because the real truth is staring on my face everyday.
Don’t talk about these things. Nobody likes listening to the naked truth. Truth makes us aggressive. Yes Indian, Truth is making you aggressive, because TRUTH HURTS. Should that mean we decide one day to stop listening, to pretend this stuff isn’t there? Shut your senses off from anything unsavory!
I look forward to the day in India when I won’t see old women sucking the scraps out of Chinese takeout plastic bags they find discarded in the trash. To a time when riot criminals are swiftly and firmly punished, irrespective of who they are or what their religion is, solely because they are criminals. To seeing every Indian child enrolled in a reasonable primary education system that gives each one a reasonable chance at life. I look forward, most of all, to an India where we don’t hide some things away and trumpet others. Where pride or shame are seen as the empty words they are.
Till then, honestly, I am not really a proud Hindu.
@ Harsh: You don’t have to be unnecessarily provocative to make your points…and unsubstantiated assertions do not help your argument.
Please show me the link between corruption, infanticide, foeticide, child labour, prostituting one’s child and Hinduism.
Almost all the points you have mentioned are a result of poor governance, inefficient public administration and general apathy.
The problems are socio-economic in nature not religious.
I need not remind you that India is NOT a Hindu nation. I also need not tell you that the problems you have mentioned are visible in most poor, and under-developed countries – regardless of religion.
Tarring eveything you don’t like about India with a “Hindu” brush may make you feel good but it really does not help..
By the way forget about being a proud Hindu…are you a proud Indian? and if you are not, have you thought how can we become proud Indians?
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Have you thought about this post?
Lets come together to build a *new* and proud India…
I don’t recall seeing your comment there.
despite all its faults and flaws , i can bet there is no better nation in this world than ‘my india’.if u do no believe in me , just go travel outside this country and discover things urself. i have visited singapore , shanghai, dubai, kuala lumpur,bahrain, and yet i can bet that our old dirty untidy mumbai is still better than those newly modern built cities. i heard a lot of comments on ‘hinduism ‘ here from hindu youngsters , and i felt very dissapointed with them. not one of u even slightly mentioned the contribution of our farmers and our agricultural land in promoting a great ‘indian ‘ nation and a ‘hindu’ culture. have u ever wondered why people of indian origin who leave our shores for outside after a certain age have a deep longing for india ?it is the binding culture of our great ancient family values which no america or west or dubai can provide at any price to anyone.as sumone who mostly spends his time out of this country, i can say it with pride that my ‘india’ is ‘priceless’, no matter how much filth or dirt or polluted u find it here.india is dirty not because indians are dirty people. it is dirty coz we r a agricultural country who grow and reap crops. our farmers in torn clothes toil day and night to feed their family and their nation.our roads are bad coz we r a large country which faces heavy rainfall and our soil is soft and fertile.we have a lot of political corruption , but show me one democratic country or any country completely free from corruption ??
show me a developed country in this world with family values and binding love other than india ?? i bet there is none.shanghai has more ‘massage parlours’ than tea stalls.dubai has all the luxeries but no ‘soul’ in it.even if u live there for 20 years u still feel empty and lonely within there.singapore is a concrete jungle with a slogan ‘to the rich, by the rich, for the rich’.in the west and america , it is ‘ i , me, myself’.only in a country like india u can melt with every class of people easily .
india is not ‘dirty’ at all. geopolitically speaking the right word is ‘muddy’. we play with mud in our fields for growth. our waters are muddy coz our soil is black and fertile.travel all over the world and u will say it with a smile ‘india is the best’
Talking of reforms!.. HUM DOH HAMAREY CHAAR !! … new nara by VHP!!
2 kids for home and 2 for the country!!.. i am not sure.. what VHP means by 2 for the country!.. is it something like enrolling in military like do chinese?…
I wouldnt like to make my opinion on the VHP’s nara .. which is meant to counter the growing muslim population in India
“HUM DOH HAMAREY CHAAR”!! … I kept saying for a couple of minutes in ur head… and wasnt able to digest the population figure!…
I guess if hindus follow the above nara we sure will have twice CHina’s population
@ Shantanu,
Is your blog a neutral forum for objective discussion?
Shantanu, Take some time to check out at least last ten days comments (if not more) of those writing for the Hindu fundamentalists and note down
1. the number of times unsubstantiated commments are made 2. provocative remarks made for people of other faith.
If you want I will send you alist.
Be unbaised if you will.
@ tarique, you are very correct about India. IMO the only thing India lacks at the moment is good (or even firm) governance and which has eventually resulted into lack of discipline in its people (converse is true too).
I have come here by total accident– Shantanu’s mail appeared in my e mail. I do not know how. But I found it interesting. So I am commenting. Now about Hinduism– surely you all know that there is no religion called Hinduism. The Persian called us — those — living on the banks of the Indus as Indoos and that became Hinduism. The real name is Sanatana Dharma. To put a date on this is difficult– now it is estimated that its origins is atleast 10,000 years old. Bhagwan Ram’s birthdate is estimated to be some 7000 years ago– if you have followed that debate and the brilliant analysis by that young army officer– Bhatnagar(?).
Firstly celebrate. Something that is so old, how can it survive for so long? Amazing.
Secondly like all societies rise and fall this society– Hindu if you please — also rose and fell– by the creeping in of all kinds of immoral rules, norms, behaviours –dowry,caste etc. That is not related to the religion.This is the Kali Yuga!! How has all this been prdicted already? Who knew what will happen? How come there is a mention of this in ancient texts? Interesting , is’nt it?
In any event what is Sanatana Dharma– it talks of Dharma and Adharma. When there is adharma there is an avatar and a new era. Now I dont really know if Vishnu will come as an avatar, but the fact is the world is certainly behaving as if they wish their end. Raping the environment, living in unsustainable ways and so on.
Many reforms have to come into India no doubt. Certainly on caste, dowry, foeticide etc. By the way foeticide is a recent phenomenon and has nothing to do with Hinduism. It is practised more in the Hindu society as there is a pressure to have fewer children and of that people prefer sons— very common in China,Philippines etc. Of course it must stop,otherwise your sons will not have brides– may be more young men will be forced to be Gay?
The only sad part is that the Muslims and even the Christians do not celebrate diversity. There is no other way of living in this world except by accepting all kinds of people and beliefs. If the Muslims believe that all non Muslims should be either converted or killed it is Adharma. When there is too much Adharma, the world will not be sustained and we will have Pralaya and will have to start all over again.
I think education– which by the way is in an appalling state in India– for the poor definitely — will take care to a certain extent of Untouchability. I know several prominent people who belong to SC / ST and you will know it only if you are told — and these are not politicians. When someone gos to a temple how will anyone know if they are SC or ST? In their own area may be. But not in other places. I know a Muslim gentleman who comes with us to temples — when they do not put ” non Hindus not allowed” notice. How will anyone know he is Muslim? Unlike Muslims enetering Mosques, one does not need any outward symbol to enter a temple.
That the priests have a hold over temples is something we should address ourselves to. Why do thy have such a hold? Because its their job. If they did not do it they will not know what to do. And there is pretty much a lot of money in it. Believe me if the Kshatriyas or Baniyas wanted to become priests even they will be opposed. Its not just the Dalits. Do the Dalits really want to learn the Vedas, scriptures, and about Advaita philosophy? Any major Ashram in India will take them in. The Chinmaya mission, Sivananda Ashram in Rishikesh, in Bihar, Parmarth Niketan and any number of places in India today admits anyone with a real interest. But they want to be in temples where there is a lot of money. Will anyone allow others to enter a profession where there is a lot of money? No country allows. You take away the money from temples. There will be no priests.
I am a practising Tamil Brahmin. Today we have a dwindling number of priests in our community. Priests children are in America in the IT field. Can’t blame them. They were so dependent on other people’s alms for centuries. They were so poor. They don’t want to do it anymore. My prediction is in 100 years there will be no Tamil Brahmin community– we will be extinct.
Religions have every incentive to crack down on women. It is very obvious that feminists target those religions and sects that are relatively liberal to women. It is also obvious that women from more liberal religions marry men from illiberal religions as opposed to the other way round.
Men and women are biologically not equal and we need to face the truth. Islam recognizes it, Muslims stick to their religion and don’t bend to political correctness. That makes Islam more manly. Have you noticed that Muslim feminists, while criticizing certain conservatives in their religion, still swear by Islam? In contrast feminists from Hindu background spit on Hinduism.
The more you guys keep bending over to keep women happy, the more you are digging the grave of your religion. No single Hindu organization recognizes that, because survival instinct and Hinduism don’t go together.
Geeta: Thanks for dropping by and for your comment…Thought-provoking..Good points about the “Hinduism” label…(I agree about Sanatan Dharma)…
..and yes, education (and I believe economic development) will probably “solve” a lot of these problems…but with the system of governance and the kind of leaders we have, I am not very hopeful.
Nevertheless, one tries…
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@ froginthewell: I don’t think opposing dowry, female foeticide or expressing concern about the plight of widows is “bending over to keep women happy”…
Not sure I got your point about being “manly”…How does this relate?
*** COMMENT COMBINED ***
Shantanu, opposing dowry, treatment of widows etc. are well and fine. But this “high status and honor” for women in Hinduism is not – you can quote from Manu Smriti to the contrary but such books are no longer valid today. Today only the universal advaitic philosophy is valid, there is no smRti applicable to today. In practice the more you “honor women” the more they spurn you. Why are Indian feminists much harsher on Hinduism? Muslim societies also have their share of oppression of women, but Muslim feminists always stand by their religion while opposing conservatives.
Geeta who commented above is absolutely right that the Tamil Brahmin community is dwindling. Do you know why? It is because they are well educated. A number of tamil Brahmin girls I know are married to whites, Muslims ( including Pakistanis ) or mallu christians. Muslim girls are rarely married to Hindu guys. Why? The more “forward” a community is in womens’ education the more disastrous it is for that community.
I am not saying “Don’t educate women”. I am saying “education of women is a bad survival strategy for a religion”. Because education causes women to spit at their religion. How to rectify this humanely? I don’t know. But we can at least stop some damage by not showering undue praise on them. Understand that they are as ordinary jIvAtmans as others, steeped in avidyA like men are. It is because of mAyA, and not sincere love, that a mother loves her child, for instance. No credit where it isn’t due.
Secondly, using Hinduism to fight dowry might as well give the impression that dowry is predominantly Hindu, which is patently wrong :
http://drisyadrisya.blogspot.com/2008/04/revisiting-question-of-dowry.html
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BTW I am pleasantly surprised and grateful that you chose to reply to my comment without dismissing it as “obvious nonsenseâ€.
@ froginthewell: Not sure I agree with “education of women is a bad survival strategy for a religion”…
No, I don’t think I agree with that at all…/
Can you please elaborate?
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What do others think?
If you don’t agree with that can you give me any other reason for the following phenomena :
1. On the blogosphere, there is hardly any female who defends Hinduism/Hindus, while there are many females defending Islam, including those from Hindu background. Almost all of those who defend Hinduism, as well as ALL Hindutva blogs I have ever seen are male. Women from Hindu background rarely write about Hinduism in their blogs, but if they write it is almost always negative.
2. There are tonnes of Muslim female bloggers who defend Islam. In fact most Muslim female writers that write about Islam at all, refrain from criticizing it.
3. Feminist blogs are more critical of Hinduism than Islam.
4. There is NO Muslim analog of Somini Sengupta : The newspaper articles that attribute societal evils like untouchability to Hinduism – half or more of those are written by women.
5. The England example I quoted – the church went as far as to have female bishops – still women are bashing the church for discrimination. Can one even dream of a situation where Muslim girls demand for priesthood?
All the (1)-(3) is inspite of the fact that Hindu girls in India are far, far better educated than Muslim girls. Note : I am not saying that Hinduism treats women overall better or worse than Islam, but almost all educationally highly accomplished Indian women are non-Muslims.
all that u hav asked for are not parts of hinduism but parts of our indian culture which has been in the hands of a greedy few for the last so many years. the problem lies not in the religion but its interpretation. yes there is a definite need for reforms in our culture.
Placing this link here for the record: Don’t like this temple? Choose another by Madhu Kishwar, dat 17th Jan 2013 from which the concluding lines:
“…In the Hindu faiths, nothing is written in stone. Devotees have the right to dictate their deities to change with changing times. But they can’t be ordered around by those who only have contempt for them. They cannot be bullied into surrendering their unique
Being and become colourless and soulless robotic creatures that yield to every new wave of political fashion we import from our intellectual mentors in distant lands.”
Placing some tweets by Kanchan Gupta here:
…
Purpose of https://twitter.com/KanchanGupta/status/504974134321754112 … was to highlight a) Hindu samaj’s attitude towards women b) need for introspection and correction. 3.j
A self-confident, forward-looking Hindu samaj based on gender equality and dignity for all will be the biggest barrier to conversion. 4.j
A Hindu samaj where gender, social inequities exist and poor are abandoned, where tradition equals regression, can never fight conversion. 5j