‘Periyar was against Brahminism, not Brahmins’ (excerpts)
If you missed this article in yesterday’s rediff, I think it is worth a read: “‘Periyar was against Brahminism, not Brahmins’“
It makes the important and useful distinction and opens the way for reconciliation between the hatred that some followers of Periyar appear to have towards traditional Hindu culture…see for example: “Was this a cover-up or blind omission?“
I would like readers’ comments on this - particularly from those who are from the south of India or have some experience, understanding and familiarity with anti-Brahminism movement.
Some excerpts from the Q&A:
“Gnana Rajasekharan is an IAS officer (and) …also the director of the feature film Periyar — aka E V Ramaswamy Naicker, the social reformer and rationalist from Tamil Nadu.
(Interview to Shobha Warrier in Chennai)
Q: Periyar has been described as an atheist, anti-Hindu, rationalist, and of course a social reformer too. After doing extensive research on him and making a film on him, what do you say is Periyar’s relevance today?
The main reason why I decided to make a film on Periyar is because I feel he was and is misunderstood. The descriptions you gave — atheist, anti-Hindu, etc show how misunderstood he is. Unfortunately only this image has stuck.
I am not saying he was not an atheist; he was. He was also against religious superstitions, caste, etc. (but)…he was a multi-faceted personality.
…His number one enemy was caste and today, we see only caste politics in Tamil Nadu.
Q: I have read that when he was in Kashi, he was not given food because he was not a Brahmin, and that was the reason why he turned against the caste system. Is it true?
Yes, this incident happened in his life but I will not say that was the only reason why he turned against the caste system.
Why is he anti-God? He said, ‘There is no God. He who created God is a fool and he who spreads his message is a scoundrel’. On the other hand his family, especially his mother, was very religious.
Periyar became anti-God because he felt God was against man. He felt the single factor that was against man in India was caste, and caste came as a part of the religious system. So, he denounced religion. He said I am against caste, and whoever proposes caste. God comes with religion, so, he was against God also.
Q: So, he was basically against Hinduism?
I would say he was against any religion that is anti-human.
Q: But was he not anti-Brahmin?
He was against Brahminism.
Q: Was he against Brahminism because of their supremacy in Hinduism?
The Brahmin community claimed to have a hold on all the sastras and texts. Because they created such a divide, he was against it. He was against dividing humanity in the name of caste. According to him, that is the biggest crime in the world. He was not against anything blindly; he had logical reasons to everything.
He also differentiated between Brahmin and Brahminism. He had an excellent relationship with Rajaji who was a Brahmin but he was vehemently against Brahminism.
According to him, reciting of the mantras is a mercantile activity. That was why he fought to make non-Brahmins and harijans poojaris (priests). He wanted priests from all communities and said it should not be the monopoly of one community alone. If he was anti-God and anti-temple, why should he fight for this? He wanted social justice. According to him, God should be equal to everyone.
Q: Reservation is based on caste, and he was against caste. Why did he then support caste-based reservations?
Yes, he fought for caste-based reservations. He felt unless social equality is achieved, you can’t have reservation based on economics status. His main aim was to bring about social justice where Brahmins and Dalits had equal status socially. I would say he changed the value system of Tamil Nadu. The questions he raised against caste are still relevant.
Filed under: Current Affairs, Distortions, Misrepresentation about Hinduism, Hindu Dharma, Hindu Social System
due to the BJP (brahmins) there is no trace of even the release of this wonderful movie. i wunder when wil tn come out from the clutches of the egoistic evil brahmin community.
Response to Sham:
Can you give me a single evidence that the Brahmin community is evil?
Sham: First of all, thanks for your comment.
However what you mention about TN “i wunder when wil tn come out from the clutches of the egoistic evil brahmin community” seems to be different from Gnana remarks about TN - “No other state can talk of such social justice”
Could you please help us understand the real situation? Also if you could give us some background of the anti-Brahminism movement in Tamil Nadu (or links to more information), I would be very grateful.
Ram: Thanks for your comment.
Mel Gibsons shockingly intense and painful drama Apocalypto begins with these words of W. Durant,
“ A great Civilisation is not conquered from without until it has completely destroyed itself from within”.
India ( Tamilnadu in particular) is fast heading down this self destruct mode and nothing is a stark reminder of this than the state sponsored apartheid in the name of reservations.
Nowhere in civilized world has any nation ignored and insulted, rebuffed and destroyed hopes and lives and futures of millions of meritorious students and job aspirants in the name of reservations.
The write up about periyar ( what a misnomer for a man of small cheap political ideology) E.V.R. and the interview with a hitherto unkown IAS Officer on rediff, whose only claim to fame is a shoddy film being produced with Satyaraj and Kushboo as the lead pair in a biopic called Periyar got me thinking. Some one had to give the viewpoint of Brahmins however unwanted and controversial it might sound. So here it goes….
About the film, the less spoken about the lead pair Kushboo and Satyaraj the better. They would put practitioners of the oldest profession in the world to shame with their personal life stories.
Now let’s look into the interview this IAS Officer gives.
Periyar was not against God but against misuse of Gods name. Periyar was not against Brahmins but against Brahminism.
After reading this I actually managed my best to stop puking and going into a spell of convulsions before I could actually sit down and pen this write up.
Im sure the N Rams and Gail Omvedt types and the “secular” know all types out there would cry for my blood after reading this write up but Im fed up of hearing fake stories being put up by the secular media to support the disgusting activities of the anti Brahmin lobby that someone had the spit the truth on these peoples faces.
Firstly a lie is a lie is a lie…. How many times you repeat it the lie doesn’t become true.
EVR was a scheming opportunist whose only single point agenda like Karunanidhis agenda is the decimation and destruction of the entire Brahmin race.
Lets look back at history not the history that NCERT Books written by communists in Delhi tell you but the disgusting facts of Tamil Nadu polity.
The anti Brahminism in Tamilnadu dates back to 1950s when India had just become an independent state and the real selfless freedom fighters made the biggest mistake of their lives. After driving out the Brits these selfless fighters stood back and said their job was done. Many Brahmins who were part of the freedom struggle who lost everything including family live and every penny they had rejoiced in the fact that India was a free state and they stood back to let vultures like Periyar, Annadurai, Karunanidhi and his goons to share the spoils amongst themselves. The fact that Brahmins were smarter and more cultured as a race didn’t help issues. This only fuelled the jealousies and insecurities of the likes of Periyar and Karunanidhis.
Right outside Chidambaram Natarajar temple stands this black hoarding – Kadavul illai illave illai. Kadavulai vendubavan muttal. Kadavulai vendubavan kaatu mirandi – loosely translated it means – There is no God. Only a fool prays to God. Only a barbaric idiot prays to God. What rights does an atheist have in critising the beliefs of a believer. He might have his opinion but when he says Im a fool and a barbaric idiot he steps out and interferes in my personal fundamental right.
Can these rationalists put the same board outside Jumma Masjid? So much so for rationalism and atheism. All this barking only against spineless Hindus. Arent muslims and Christians believers? Why not put up such boards outside churches and dargas? The next day these Periyars and Karunanidhis would be hunted on the streets like stray dogs. And the secular media will demand their head. So much so for their double standards. Their rationalism and atheism is pure anti Brahminism anti Hinduism in disguise.
Basic human jealousy is the cause of all evil. Periyar and Annadurai weren’t Rajajis friends. This is a blatant lie.The trusth was just the opposite. They were terribly insecure and jealous of the statesman that Rajaji was. Neither did they have the education or finesse of Rajaji and when Rajaji returned to Chennai after his stint in Delhi people just cudnt stand him.
The only way they could sideline Rajaji was by bringing in the caste factor. The violent Anti Brahmin protests in 70s spear headed by Karunanidhi is worse than the Gujarat riots of today. The media was terrorized in not reporting what had happened. Brahmins were looted, abused, their hair forcibly tonsured and women raped and killed. Not a single case of FIR was booked. Some Brahmin preists were beaten to death inside temple premises.
All this to ensure total obliteration of Brahmins in the social life of TN. Being the educated and so called elitist crowd Brahmins did the mistake of suffering in silence. And the reservation policy ensured the best brains in the state was refused entry in any educational institution of repute. These days Karunanidhis grandson and Arcot Veerasamis grandson study in Anna University. Their only merit being family members of the ruling goon clan.
About the unfounded oft repeated lie that Brahmins are perpetrators of Casteism in TN and that Brahmins have robbed other castes of their position in governmental jobs, just look around. For 50 years we have had anti Brahmin Governments ruling TN. How have they managed to make social life in TN better? Have caste conflicts lessened? They have infact worsened and we have caste outfits headed by Ramdoss and Thirumavalavan virtually behaving like mafia dons in caste ridden pockets of TN. What have you achieved by such state sponsored apartheid?
If the Government in 2007 is doing what Brahmins have been accused of doing several hundreds of years ago, then the government needs to be treated with the same contempt with which those casteist Brahmins of yesteryears need to be condemned. If the Government justifies this action, then what’s the difference between a racist criminal Brahmins and the Government?
Even after 60 years of Indian Independence we still hear spine chilling stories of Takurs and Jats raping and burning SCs and STs and Koundars and Vanniyars in Tamilnadu burning down SC and ST hamlest and vice versa. So have the governments succeeded in weeding out casteism after the systematic rape of Brahmins over the years? Now who will take revenge for the present day state and how many more years of reservation do we need?
The desperate barrage of lies shelled out by this IAS Officer is at times humorous. He calls Periyar a good friend of Rajaji. Periyar started anti Brahminism to achieve his personal goal of self flagellation. Anti Brahminism of Karunanidhi and Periyar is just a public front to settle scores with their enemies. Periyar silenced Rajaji with this and Karunanidhi has silenced Jayalalitha with this tool. Though Jayalalitha deserves to be hanged in public for being the most spiteful vengeful and disgusting CM we ever had is another issue. Lets not even compare Rajaji to Jaya and degrade the statesman. The only thing they both have in common is that they had very cunning political enemies who used the anti Brahmin card to ensure their hold on state power politics.
It is said Periyar started hating Brahminism and not Brahmins because a Brahmin refused to feed him in Varanasi. Firstly no one knows if this cheap story is true. Even if it were to be true, how is it justified that you start hating an entire race based on what a Brahmin did in Varanasi years ago? Will a state decide its education policy based on what a Brahmin did to one old rotting casteist politician? In what way are these scumbags better than Hitler?
And Karunanidhi ridicules Hindus and Brahmins at any given opportunity. As elected Head of Tamil Nadu isn’t he the Chief Minister of Brahmins of TN? Can he disown the entire Brahmin race? Arent we not entitled to a life in TN? You shamelessly solicit votes during elections but with such racist mentality can you openly declare that you are not our CM? Isn’t this untouchability practiced by the state? EVR Periyar started this culture of hate. Annadurai and Karunanidhi perfected it. Jayalalitha ( of unknown parentage who calls herself a Brahmin ) enjoys the spoils of this. This is TN politics for you.
However just look at TN today. Inspite of 60 years of hate, the best software brains and best neurosurgeons, the best businessmen, the best beauty queens all are Brahmins. The Brahmin race is very similar to the Jewish population. They are hated by everyone but the more the world tries to put them down the more they grow.
Inspite of Periyars and Karunanidhis we have grown and will continue to grow, the anti Brahminism in TN and India at large might have unsettled us from our place of birth but it has only made our lives better and more prosperous. In the end God ensures that life is a big equalizer. You might get a medical seat in All India Institute of Medical Sciences due to reservation but it doesn’t make you a great doctor. Our attitude is what determines our altitude and inspite of such casteist scoundrels we will continue to thrive.
I had few Brahmin friends from TN. They were good and God fearing people. Their attitudes were of rising and progressive. Yes, they can influence others too in their mannerism and dedication. But what I did not like about them was superiority complex and always comparing themselves with others. Too much competition in mind. Otherwise they are superb.
Sorry I don’t have any comments related to topic so I put whatever I knew about my Brahmin friends in my above comments. I learned many things from these friends. One of it is excellent focus.
From this post and readers comments I learned much more going on in TN. I think Brahmins can make a better govt. as they highly uphold hinduism if they remain without bias towards lower people. I am assuming that they are God- fearing people so will never go against humanity.
DrSurya: First of all, thanks for the comment and contributing to the debate.
You raise a number of points touching on reservations, “state-sponsored apartheid”, the politics of caste, and the “anti-Brahmin” movement in TN.
I am not sure I am qualified to comment on all (or indeed any) of these topics but at least for the sake of brevity, I will try and focus attention on one or two main points.
First, you mention that, “The fact that Brahmins were smarter and more cultured as a race didn’t help issues” - I am not sure that I agree with that. I do not belive that intelligence (or IQ/EQ) is hard-wired by ethnicity or race…The “more cultured” bit probably stems from the centuries of relatively priviliged position that most Brahmins enjoyed - and the emphasis on education that was a mark of being a Brahmin.
Now, the roots of “anti-Brahminism” - if that is the accurate phrase - go deep and there has to be a better, more effective, and more fundamental way to alter the situation (and perceptions) we find ourselves in (with).
Blog posts dont go far enough - at best they help to create and raise awareness and methods like reservations are only part of the answer because they do not visibly appear to change the status quo - especially in communities and areas where old, feudal attitudes run deep.
We need some fairly radical thinking and some fresh ideas to begin to resolve this issue…I have some thoughts and will share them on this blog sometime in the next few weeks.
In any case, I am still very interested to hear what lead to the situation in TN 50 or 60 years ago and the background of Periyar’s movement and the roots of his public support.
That aside, your comment needs a more thoughtful response and I will endeavour to give that (perhaps in a blog post) in the next few days. I also request other readers to share their thoughts on this issue.
As a general observation, a fragmented society leads to a weak polity…and there really is nothing more urgent and important than overcoming the caste divide…a divided home is an invitation for looting…
*
Indian: Thank you for your comment and sharing your experience. You mention that you “did not like (their) superiority complex and (teh habit of) always comparing themselves with others. Too much competition in mind” - that is an interesting observation which my experience supports to some degree.
I do believe though that they are one of the hardest-working and god-fearing community that I have come across.
And you do not have to apologise for commenting on the periphery of the issue - it still helps the discussion.
Shantanu,
Thanks for your comments. I do agree IQ doesnt come specific to castes but whether people agree or not it is a very well known faact that brahmins as a race is a very intelligent and smart race. Theres nothing racially arrogant in this statement.
Johns Hopkins University in a clinical study ( I will try to send you the link if i get it) had studied the IQ patterns of ethnic racial groups and in their own convoluted way arrived at a conclusion that Jews, Brahmins and Cantonese were the most intelligent ethnic groups of the world.
Now before this sparks off another debate let me say Johs Hopkins neednt be the final word and there are intelligent people in every race.
Let me justify why I made that comment. Even if you are an OBC candidate have you ever felt that if you were the smartest kid in class or in college you had the least number of friends?
This is because the best students in class and the best people in society always stir an unseen inferiority complex in others. The result is they are never popular ( but for some rare cases).
This is what I wanted to say. As a tamil brahmin I have had a first hand view of this issue. Some of the best looking and smartest in terms of IQ were and still are brahmins. A very simple survey can prove this.
Just step into several educational institutions and you would see amongst the top 10 students you would find several brahmins.
Now with such grip over education, the community definitely became less popular Hence the demand for anti brahminism became more shrill.
You had commented that - The “more cultured” bit probably stems from the centuries of relatively priviliged position that most Brahmins enjoyed - and the emphasis on education that was a mark of being a Brahmin. It is true that brahmins were more previliged and as a result of centuries of previlige have become more ccultured - it could be true. But the fact you agree with this only means I had laid my hand on the pulse of the issue.
I certainly do not support oneupmanship of brahmins in soicety. But the decimantion of one race to nullify this trend is not the answer. Whether people accept this or not, the truth is anti brahminism in tamilnadu was initially a war against an individual based on personal likes and dislikes. To camouflage this nefarious intention, it was later broadened against any brahmin because of the fact that were better off than other castes.
It is a sad fact. As a society unless and until there is collective growth, the growth wudnt be of any use.
This noble goal doesnt justify the ruthlessness of an elected government in sidelining and abusing a part of its own society.
Thanks, Shantanu for you kind words and thoughts.
Reading through the topic and comments, it came to my mind that; why in state like Gujarat brahmans and brahminism is not a question. Comparing to “Brahmins” there, community like “Patel”, “Bania”, “Rajput” and many other castes are doing far better than brahmins. Brahmins has no high privileges and status other than in temples, puja and ceremonies, particularly in state of Gujarat. There is no distinction of brahmins on level of education also. All are same. All and above, strong castes like Patels(farmers-Kadva, levua, matia) and Bania(vaishnav mainly)dominates other communities socially, economically and culturally. These communities are pure vegiterian and no interrelation marriages exists. Even cannot marry in the same town.
One can see this from the example of freedom fighter “M.K.Gandhi”(Vaishnav bania), and
“Sardar Vallabh Patel”. I can’t say these castes are dominating but there is no such distinction between all these castes. Caste distinction exists only when it is time to marry. Patels would not like to marry off their daughters to brahmins as brahmins are not as prosperous as patels not only because of the reason of caste. Still one can find many cases of intercaste marriages now, if both parties are strong in everyway.
So, I agree what shantanu said that “relatively privilege” postion they enjoyed in TN cannot be denied. Plus I also agree they are more towards higher qualification may have put them on lead in TN.
I don’t have anything against brahmins. In olden
times brahmins were meant to be respected and still i do. As when it is time to study brahminism I would like to think openely. I would also like to salute Brahmins for upholding Hinduism.
As per what Shantanu said, caste system should not exist, we become more vulnerable if we divide people on line of caste.
Sometime I think attitudes, behaviour, mannerism, and ethics may have played an important role to divide the society in castes other than four “Varnas” of Hinduism. If that is than people on lower strata should imbibe the good qualities from higher strata. This is again what I think, It may not be true. Sometime in the same community also people dislikes eachother because of ethics and manners they conduct themselves. So they distance themselves from eachother. May be the same kind of reasons may have existed at that time.
DrSurya,
The John Hopkins study that you mention is probably the Bell Curve study (I may be wrong)…
Indian: I think you will find one of my previous articles on the issue of Caste, Varna and Jatis interesting and relevant: http://www.ivarta.com/columns/OL_051125.htm
I am hoping that we could get a perspective from an OBC or a “Dalit” on this. With all due respect, I think it be very interesting (and educational) contribution to this debate. If any readers have friends or acquaintances with an interest in this issue, please forward this link and solicit comments: http://hindudharma.wordpress.com/2007/05/01/periyar-against-brahminism-not-brahmins/
Thanks
I am not against Brahmins , I am against Brahminism or any other “isms” in India. I support Hinduism and a true hinduism never discriminated on the basis of caste.
Some selfish people created varnashram and castes , they used this apartheid system as a tool to exploit remaining Indians. They made such a system in which Brahmins were at top of the hierarchy enjoying all fruits of prosperity while others working to serve them.
They made the ritual of ” daan” that means non brahmins were compelled to give gifts , food and money to brahmins in order to please Gods.
When a child is born , They should give ” daan” to Brahmin ,
When he is given a name , They should give ” daan ” to Brahmin,
When he is getting married , they should give ‘daan’ to Brahmin.When he is dead , They should give ” daan’ to brahmins.
Brahmin priests were responsible for this caste system of discrimination and still its the brahmins who discriminate the most towards SC ,ST , Dalits , Backwards and all other non brahmins in IIT , AIIMS or any other institutions.Even some of them differentiate with them in Temples.
Recently Tamlinadu government introduce a revolutionary resolution in which they said even Non Brahmins have got right to become Priests and worship God in Temples. Every caste welcomed it and were happy. The one and only Brahmins opposed it. They want to continue the monoploy on Hindu Society.
When Muslims got reservations in Andhra Pradesh , No Brahmin had guts to oppose or voice opposition and when UPA government announced reservation for OBC Hindus , They started all drama of so called ” Youth for Equality”.
When Hindus are murdered in Haryana and Kherlanji in Maharashtra , No Brahmin opposed the murders of Dalits. Not even RSS , VHP ,BJP ( Which is controlled by Brahmins) opposed it.
When Dalits want to worship in Temples , Brahmins oppose them and when same Dalit becomes Muslim and plant bombs to destroy temples , the same brahmins are first to run away and save their lives.
If Brahmins support destruction of discriminatory caste system and evil varnashram , Whole Hindu Community willl support them.
If there is no varnashram , There is no caste system , and there will be no reservations also.
Brahmins are against reservations because it gives a chance for upliftment of Dalits , SC and STs. But at the same time they are never against Varnshram or Evil Caste System.
True Brahmins never support division of Great Hindu Dharama on the basis of Caste and Varna.
I wish Brahmin Community will follow the Path of Chanakya , Veer Savarkar , Chandrasekar Azad , Mangal Pandey , Chapekar Brothers , Vasudev Phadke , Lokmanya Tilak and Offcourse the Greatest Maharishi Dayanand Saraswati .
If we one billion Hindus unite , India will be the most vibrant nation on this Earth.
Jai Bharat
Vande Matram
Dear Mahadev,
Thank you very much for your comment and contributing to this discussion.
I am in complete agreement with you that there must be an end to discrimination. In fact, just a few days ago, I wrote this post re. the entry of Dalits in temples which I think will resonate with your views: http://satyameva-jayate.org/2007/04/19/shameful-and-inexcusable/
As a Brahmin, let me make my own position clear: I am totally and completely against all forms of discrimination against Dalits, SC, ST, OBCs or anyone else for that matter…Temples are not only for Brahmins - they are for every Hindu and must be open and accessible to everyone.
Secondly, I strongly support the induction of Dalits and SCs/STs as priests in temples - there should not be any argument about this.
Re. the question of reservations, please see this post:
Re. condemnation of atrocities, murder and crimes against Dalits, again, let me clearly and unequivally voice my condemnation of such incidents. If the RSS, VHP and others did not condemn these incidents, shame on them - and they are not the true representatives of Hindus.
I would like to say that I am not the only Brahmin/upper caste person who feels this way. Most of my friends and readers of this blog will agree with me on this.
As re. the question of caste, varna and jatis, there but important differences in these terms. E.g. please have alook at this post: http://www.ivarta.com/columns/OL_051125.htm
I am in complete agreement with you when you say that we should follow the path of Chanakya , Veer Savarkar , Chandrasekar Azad , Mangal Pandey , Chapekar Brothers , Vasudev Phadke , Lokmanya Tilak and ofcourse the Greatest Maharishi Dayanand Saraswati…If we one billion Hindus unite , India will be the most vibrant nation on this Earth.”
Well said.
Jai Hind, Jai Bharat
its very funny how every flaw in hinduism is attributed to brahmins and every thing good they have done is happily ignored.
Mahadev must be basing his opinion on personal experiences ( like all of us do) I only hope and wish he gets to meet brahmins who are not as draconian as he describes them to be.
http://www.ucpress.edu/books/pages/10868.html
Bhola,
Thank you for the link. I will try and get my hands on a copy.
Wednesday, May 23, 2007 (Chennai)
One of the biggest political churning in temples was seen in Tamil Nadu, where the Dravidian Movement challenged all Brahminical rules and bans.
This socio-political movement of the early 20th century not only opened the temple doors for people of all castes, but has also made sure that even lower castes can now become priests.
Barely an hour from the famous temples of Guruvayoor lies the old princely state of Travancore.
Here the rigidity of Guruvayoor rankles hard because Travancore was the first state in pre-Independent India to break away from temple orthodoxy.
In 1936, the Maharaja of Travancore, Maharaja Balarama Varma, abolished the ban on untouchables from entering Hindu temples. In his famous Temple Entry Proclamation he said: ”none of our Hindu subjects should, by reason of birth or caste of community, be denied the consolations and the solace of the Hindu faith.”
This was a landmark in India’s social reforms that opened the doors of many temples across India.
Dravidian movement
This change was taken further in Tamil Nadu by the success of the Dravidian movement with its origins in the anti-Brahmin movement, launched in the first part of the 20th century. It saw many from lower caste backgrounds become temple priests.
Last year when the DMK government came to power it passed a law that anybody belonging to any caste can perform puja in Tamil Nadu’s temples.
”People trained in Agama rules and who know Vedas, who knows Sanskrit can become priests. There is nothing wrong in it,” said T K S Elangovan, Organising Secretary, DMK.
”We have got references and evidences from history that we are all children of God and anybody can become a priest and worship God if he knows the method. So there’s nothing wrong in the move,” said Amarnath, a Historian.
The reforms outraged the orthodoxy and provoked intense debate amongst others.
”It is generally thought that only Brahmins are allowed inside the temple. I am also a Brahmin. I have also studied so many texts and all, Vedas, Agamas. But because I know Agamas I cannot go inside the sanctum sanctorum. Most of the people now in the government are atheists. So they don’t have any faith in the religious traditions and so they are doing all these things,” said M A Venkatakrishnan, Professor of Vaishnavism.
Equality in religion
Political pundits point out that the DMK move is well timed because it comes right in the middle of the reservation debate. But priesthood is not a very lucrative career. Hence this move is less about professional opportunities and more about social posturing.
”I cannot understand why the government is worried about this issue when there are issues like Dalits not being allowed to become Panchayat chairman, reserved categories are not fulfilled and when there is so much oppression of Dalits by non-Brahmin upper classes in villages,” said V R Anil Kumar, a Sanskrit Researcher.
But irrespective of the debates or the motives the DMK’s attempts to temple reform cannot be reduced to mere politics because it is an attempt at equality in religion.
Real Brahmin will never discriminate on the basis of caste.We must allow our Dalit Hindu Brothers to enter temples and become Priests.
Those selfish people who stop our Dalit Hindus from becoming Priests in Hindu Temples are Traitors.
We must make sure that those casteist people are booked under the law of the land. This is discrimination.
Out of Four Shankaracharaya , one Shankaracharya should be from Dalit Hindu Community.
Dalits are the real Hindus , They have faced inhuman cruelity and harsh treatment from selfish hindu top class and inspite of that they are still following great Hindu Dharma . They are the great Hindus.
Now Brahmins must come forward and make sure that Dalit and Backward Hindus are given Leadership of Hindu Dharma , Hindu Community and Hindu Organisations and we will see Hindu Revolution in India.
All these conversion activites and Islamic Terrorism will stop .
So called high castes are only 10 % of Indian Population and 70% are Dalits , SC , ST and Backwards. They are staunch Hindus , they have guts to fight back and defend Hindu Religion and Nation.
Last time BJP supported a Muslim and made him president.
This time BJP , RSS , VHP must show credibility and support candidate from Dalit , SC or ST Community for the post of President. This move will remove all misconceptions and doubts in the minds of our majority Hindus and also forge Unity between all sections.
together we can , we must and we will Unite to rebuild our Great Indian Nation as “Jagadguru”.
Rakesh and Vishnupal: Thank you both for your thoughtful and excellent comments.
Rakesh, you say in your conclusion:
“Real Brahmin will never discriminate on the basis of caste.We must allow our Dalit Hindu Brothers to enter temples and become Priests” - This is a noble idea and I completely agree with it.
Vishnupal: The feeling that you expressed in your concluding sentence, “together we can , we must and we will Unite to rebuild our Great Indian Nation as Jagadguru” is what we need today.
Without Hindu unity, there is neither Hindu culture nor Hindu pride - this is really the need of the hour..
In case you missed it, both of you will find post of interest:
http://satyameva-jayate.org/2007/04/19/shameful-and-inexcusable/
Please start the movement to destroy the Varnashram , jati and caste system otherwise these hindus will be converted to Buddhism and after that to Christanity.
Only Brahmins can take initiatives to bring equality.—————————————————–
MUMBAI (Reuters) - About 50,000 Indian low-caste Hindus and nomadic tribespeople converted to Buddhism before a vast crowd on Sunday in the hope of escaping the rigidity of the ancient Hindu caste system and finding a life of dignity.
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Monks in orange and saffron robes administered religious vows to the converts as about half a million spectators, mostly Buddhists, cheered the ceremony at a horseracing track in downtown Mumbai.
Some of the converts were low-caste Hindus once considered as “untouchables” by the higher castes, but most were members of India’s numerous nomadic tribes.
Many of the tribespeople had their faces painted and ritually flagellated themselves before being asked by the monks to give up their practices and follow the non-violent path of Buddhism.
“Whatever may have been your religion until now, from today you will take refuge in the teachings of the Lord Buddha,” one told them.
At a signal from the monk conducting the proceedings, the converts, some of them visibly emaciated or carrying babies in their arms, stood up, took off their shoes and with folded hands repeated Buddhist chants.
Hindu scriptures separate people into Brahmin priests, warriors, farmers, labourers, and those beyond definition — called “Dalits”.
These low-caste Hindus, making up about a sixth of India’s 1.1 billion people, were once considered “untouchable”, performing the most menial and degrading jobs.
CULTURAL CHANGE
While the Indian constitution forbids caste discrimination, and spectacular economic success and exposure to Western culture have remoulded many social paradigms, the caste system has persisted, above all in villages.
Dalits are still often beaten or killed if they use a well or worship at a temple reserved for upper castes.
“I’m here because people from our village have decided to become Buddhist,” said Santosh Mane, a landless labourer from a village about two hours’ drive from Mumbai.
For decades, conversion has been a sensitive issue in India. Right-wing Hindus have accused missionaries, especially Christian preachers, of converting poor Hindus with inducements such as free schooling and health care.
But Christians, who have long demanded greater rights for Dalits, say those who convert often want to escape the oppressive caste system.
Hindus account for 80 percent of India’s population. Muslims account for 13 percent, Christians less than 3 percent and minorities such as Sikhs, Buddhists, Jains and Parsis the rest.
The movement already started. http://www.shastras.org/ . Just support them.
Selvan: Thanks for the link. I will have a look.
Selvan,
Looks like a good link.
Wish all this good work of Shantanu, Radha Rajan and several other people committed to reviving and unifying Hindus pays off and we rise together as one strong powerful entity and destroy all the hurdles in our path of success.
Good luck in your work.
See how Muslims are using caste difference in Hindu Society to further weaken India ………
http://www.samachar.com/showurl.php?rurl=http://www.thehindu.com/2007/05/31/stories/2007053107421200.htm&news=We%20are%20with%20them,%20say%20J&pubDate=Thu%2C+31+May+2007&keyword=hindu_home
We are with them, say J&K Gujjars
Staff Reporter
JAMMU: The Gujjars in Jammu and Kashmir have extended their support to their Rajasthan counterparts, who are waging a struggle for their inclusion in the Scheduled Tribes list.
“We fail to understand why our co-ethnic community in Rajasthan is not being given Scheduled Tribe status. In their hour of need, we are fully behind them in their struggle and would even join them if their demand is not accepted. On every parameter, the Gujjars deserve Scheduled Tribe status,” J&K Gujjar United Front Leader Chowdhary Shah Mohammad said.
The Gujjars in Jammu and Kashmir are Muslims. They are ethnically and culturally closer to the Hindu Gujjars as they belong to the same racial stock. They were given tribal status during the tenure of the Chandra Shekhar Government in 1991 after a long-drawn struggle by civil activists and community leaders. The people who supported the demand included intellectuals and other Gujjar leaders who convinced the political leadership the need to bring the community under the umbrella of affirmative action. The community has been the worst sufferers of militancy in the last 17 years due to its consistent struggle against militants.
The Gujjars have now launched a political struggle for reservation of seats in the Assembly. As per the Indian Constitution, tribals are entitled to reservation proportionate to their population of a State. If the provision is applied to the State, which has its own Constitution, a minimum of 11 Assembly segments will have to be reserved for the STs in the present 87-member Assembly.
_________________________________________________
Just imagine there was no caste system in India,
There would have been no conversions , no defeats , no traitors in India.
No caste system , No Reservation , No division , No discrimination.
Brahmin Youth Organisation is opposing quotas for SC , ST and OBCs, But they have no courage to utter a single word against the 5% reservation to Muslims and Christians in Kerala , Andhra Pradesh , Karnataka and Now few days back CM Karunanidhi of Tamilnadu announced 5 % reservations to Muslims and Christians in Tamilnadu as well.
I wonder why Youth for Equality is not opposing it ??
I challenge all Brahmins , RSS , VHP , Shiv Sena and Hindu Priests to speak and agitate against reservation to Muslims in Southern States. and after some months muslims are lobbying with every political partyto get the same 5 % - 15 % RESERVATION in every state and that will be nightmare.
But we are sure no Brahmin Organisation, Priest and Youth for Equality will protest against this anti national move by politicians to gain votes.
Real Brahmins that is Brahmins by Karma will definitely oppose it and show that they have blood of their fathers and milk of their mothers.
Shri Ramchandra ki Jai
THIS KIND OF PETTY DIVISION AMONG HINDUS MOSTLY STARTING FROM TN ONLY.PERIYAR BEING A KANNADIGA, HE IS NOT TAMILIAN, HE THOUGHT THAT DIVIDING BRAHAMINS AND NON BRAHAMINS IN TN WILL BECOME EASY TO AVERT TAMIL KANNADIGA DIVISION, FOR THIS DIVISION NAIDUS OF TELUGU PEOPLE ARE ALSO HELPING POLITICAL PARTY TO DIVIDE BRAHAMINS AND NON BRAHAMINS.EXAMPLE IS AT THAT TIME NAIDUS FROM COIMBATORE.BASICALLYCOLOR ISSUE BRINGS ONLY THE DIFFERENCE ESPECIALLY IN FEMALE SEX.BRAHAMINS LADIES ARE THAT TIME VERY FAIR AND OTHERS ARE BLACK .
SINCE TAMILS ARE ALWAYS WEAK IN SEX , IF GOOD LOOKING LADY CAN EASILY INFLUENE A DRAVIDAN TAMIL, THEY ARE VERY WEAK IN FEMALE SEX, MAY BE EATING STRUCTURE.MORE NON VEG FOODS WILL MOTIVATE SEX.
THEY STARTED AGITATION STARTED FROM COLOR COMPLEXION ONLY, IN TN THE SAME TIME IS NORTH INDIAN PEOPLE ARE THEY DO NOT LIKE SINCE NORTH INDIAN ARE WHITE OR FAIR COMPLEXION, THAT IS WHY ANTIHINDI AGITATION STARTED IN TN BY DRAVIDAN PARTIES.
KSKulkarni: I am not sure what you are trying to say…you have either intentionally or inadvertantly mixed up a number of issues…but I COMPLETELEY disagree with your analysis that the cause of this trouble is “Brahmin ladies” who are fair…
You cannot be serious.
Please avoid falling into these kind of traps…There are plenty of North Indians who are dark-skinned, plenty of South Indians (including Tamilians) who are fair-skinned and plenty of Brahmin ladies who are not fair.
This obsession with complexion is the bane of our society and I dont need to tell you how deeply it can hurt the psyche of someone (especially girls and women) who are not “fair-skinned”…
As for linking, non-veg food with sex, what are you talking about?
I am resisting the urge to “moderate” your comment but I must caution you that if you repeat these kind of statements, I will have to edit/censor them.
Till I was 31 years old I was in Bombay(now Mumbai). I was and continue to be part of a middle class brahmin family. I am a moderate. I like lot of things in BRAHMISM
fsdfsdf: Not sure if your coment was serious but I have deleted it as I found it untenable (if it was a serious one) and in bad taste (if it was meant as a joke).
Although I do not usually moderate comments on the blog, I will delete offenisve, abusive and non-serious comments - particularly those in bad taste.
I hope you continue to remain a loyal reader and I look forward to your thoughts on this and other matters - please take the time to explain your arguments and assertions though - this shows respect to our other readers as well.
Thanks.
———————–News from dailyindia.com———————
A low-caste Hindu turns priest
From our ANI Correspondent
Paliganj (Bihar), June 30: A low-caste Hindu has been appointed priest of the Ram-Janki Devi temple at Paliganj, 60 kilometers from Patna, where casteism is at rife.
Janardan Manjhi, the newly appointed priest of the temple was earlier serving in a Dalit temple.
Traditionally, priesthood is restricted only to Brahmins. But the temple authorities, by law, has broken the tradition and allowed Manjhi, a Mushar tribal to take to priesthood.
It took temple administrator Kishore Kunal six months to select Manjhi, who is not well versed in Sanskrit.
During this period, temple authorities checked his credentials and his devotion to god.
“I am feeling very nice and excited. I had never thought of this. I used to dream of this day when I would distribute the prasad here. Now my dream has come true,” said Manjhi.
Residents say the move would set an example for those indulging in casteism.
“Casteism was rife here and because of that conversions had begun. Earlier people never let the untouchables in the temple. So it is a good move which will led to easing of such thinking,” said Pankaj Kumar, a resident.
At present, non-Brahmin priests perform rituals in a few temples of certain sects, mostly in rural areas.
The Supreme Court had ruled in 2002 members of the so-called “dalits” could also be appointed as priests in temples as long as they were qualified to conduct the rituals.
Copyright Dailyindia.com/ANI
Drsurya, you sound like someone who studied in JMC mysore
I am surprised that you have invested such a lot of time on a person like Periyar.
Periyar can probably be noted as the “one person who is reponsible for all the political unrest in southern India in the post-independence era”. No matter how decently you try to tackle the issue by asking questions about brahminism (a term that means nothing, except that it was coined by British Indologists who understood nothing about India), the basic issue is quite clear. Periyar used a strategy to win elections and appear as a hero to the gullible majority of the population.
If he was simply an anti-”brahminic” person, he would not have carried out processions where idols of Gods and Godesses were adorned in footwear and smeared with excreta.
Please don’t give your readers all this proper-language bullshit about bastards like Periyar.
Ritwik: Thanks for your comment.
I decided to invest some time in this as I am really keen to understand the origins of his hatred and antipathy towards Brahmins and Hindu symbols, rituals etc.
We may pretend that it does not matter and it is not worth a discussion - but I would respectfully disagree.
Unless we try and understand the causes of dis-unity or friction amongst Hindus, I see little hope of creating a strong and proud Hindu identity. Of course, not everyone agrees with this view…and I am not claiming that this is the only way…
You may also find this recent post interesting (- you may have read it already, in which case apologies): “Is this too much to ask?”
@ Selvan (Comment #20): To a large extent, your link to the shastras site was the trigger for the post I mention above. Thanks.
If a man has an inferiority complex, we leave it to him to sort out his problem.
But to sow single minded hatred against a community, which has also shown great nobility as evidenced in literature, music and the arts….you can call such perversity anything…but it is not leadership.
But obviously hate is more powerful than love in the short run.
Men of immense standing, like Ramalinga Vallalar, too poohpoohed caste….but their’s was a message of love.
Unfortunately there is no end to hate…when there is no beginning for love….Love makes man a god…hatred makes him a beast…
We should not justify any philosophy of hatred…on any score.
I beg to differ on point that Brahmins do not allow Dalits or members of the other caste to become priests.
Temple and religion is science and have some rules, because idol worship is connection between the mind (Jeevatma) and the paratma.
Not all temples in tamil nadu have brahmins as priests. In an Amman temple, brahmin can never become a priest, however if u perhaps visit the revered Amman temple in T.Nagar Chennai, most of the followers are brahmins.
Brahmins visit this temple in large number, I think brahmins are pretty rational about this.
Temples in Tamil Nadu is big business, all the big temples in Tamil Nadu have cores of wealth with these moron aka karunanidhi want to amass for themselves, thats why they want to take brahmin priest out the temples, already a lot land of the temples are being sold!
I think there is nothing about equality in the situation! However what I wish to add is the big priest in temples are also equally corrupt!
Dear Folks
What are you trying to achieve by spending your time in preaching across the web.If you are a Brahmin try and search for karma by helping the downtrodden.same applies for a non-brahmin too.
Use your life to save lives
@ Lord RAM: Thank you for your comment. We all try to do what we can…
Is there anything specific that you are referring to?
P.S. I don’t know why you got the idea that this site is to do with “preaching across the web” (unless discussing Hinduism, culture and history equates to preaching)
Shantanu: Here is a time-tested beautiful quotation of Swami Vivekananda:
“Let people say whatever they like, stick to your own convictions, and rest assured, the world will be at your feet. They say, ‘have faith in this fellow, or that fellow’, but I say, ‘Have faith in yourself - all power is in you - be conscious and bring it out.” [CW VI 274]
Brahmins are not a race - otherwise an excellent critique.
Brahmins are just like other human beings. That some people are born in the so-called ‘brahmin’ caste is an accident about which no one can do anything. Of all people in India, Brahmins are the most democratic-minded. They are always ready for a fair debate and they respect the rights of others to secure education, jobs and the good things in life.
Brahmins are not jealous. But like other human beings they too have emotions, feelings, needs and desires and are willing to engage in fair competition. Brahmins normally do not abuse other people on caste basis and also do not indulge in atrocities. Where however some Brahmins indulge in caste practices to demean others, other Brahmins on becoming aware condemn such behaviour.
Brahmins generally promote social goodwill and amity in the society because they know that turbulence and anarchy in society will bring all-round ruin.
Brahmins do not categorise people as backward etc. To be called backward is nothing to be proud off.
Brahmins are fair-minded people who recognise that where people suffer from genuine disadvantage they must concede their own rights so that the disadvantaged person gets an opportunity. But Brahmins do not appreciate people vying for the bogus tag of ‘backwardness’ so that undue benefits can be enjoyed without engaging in competition.
Brahmins also do not spread lies, falsehood and rumour. Brahmins also do not promote caste hated.
Various individuals, groups and organisations in India are engaged in the full-time occupation of inciting hatred based on caste, religion, language etc. Of course it is all done in the name of social welfare. Most of these groups have sworn to uphold the constitution and yet are engaging in anti-constitutional activities. Several people in India are busy inventing dubious nomenclatures to carry out illegal grouping of people and inter-group disaffection is being promoted. The people of this country are urged to be wary of these do-gooders, most of whom have single-point agendas.
Various sections of the national media are also engaged in promoting inter-group disaffection. They are primarily doing this by highlighting the ‘castes’ of the unfortunate victims of crime which are committed for various reasons. Most of the crimes have nothing to do with caste, yet the caste is highlighted when victims belong to particular castes. When the victims belong to ‘out of favour’ castes, the same is not reported.
Let us not lionize some one like EVR who is a beneficiary of the time and place he lived in. EVR borrowed ideas that were prevailing at that time all over the world and applied it to the local Tamils. He was lucky to be at a time when enlightenment was taking deep roots all over the world that man should not enslave man, nor discriminate based on colour, creed or religion. Slavery was being abolished all over. Fruitlessness of war was being realized after two bloody world wars. So this man EVR a school drop out and a local wealthy bully must have taken to oppose established customs and rebel against all that is revered whether people, God et al. Normally this comes easy to all bullies. Must have resented some happenings around him which prevented him from having his ways. The Justice party by that time had already laid the foundations for resentment against people who were revered in the Society even though they were are not as wealthy as their party members were. It is well known the Brahmins are not a wealthy community even now.. Additionally British were also preferring Brahmins for the Govt. services for their knowledge of English, their dedication and efficiency in work. Justice party invented a devious method to over come this, spread fissiparous tendencies in Tamilnadu isolating the Brahmins as the sole culprit and beneficiaries due to casteism. Though they themselves misused cast when it benefited them in large measure as they required large labour force to look after their wealth and huge estates, property amassed in India and abroad. So our EVR also caught on to this bandwagon to gain cheap popularity with the support of some indolent people similarly disposed to his idea and spread hatred in his own crude ways.
If you come to think of it when casteism was prevalent in India, Slavery in its virulent form was practiced all over the world. Men like Hitler were exterminating a community based on their religion. When idea of Slavery was mellowing down in other parts of the world the idea caught on in India too. Brahmins themselves were advocating against cast repressions. Ramanujar who spread Vaishnavisim is a shining example. So at no point of time support or opposition to casteism in Indfia can be taken in Isolation. It is mostly a reflection of what was happening and accepted by others in the world over. Though so many in so many ways opposed cateism during that period including the right thinking Brahmins, only some were lucky to have their name projected as the doyens of such a movement and EVR was lucky to be projected thus, because his supporters were in a free country, went on to win elections in a democracy, form government and push thro his image.
Who said Brahmins created Caste? How do you prove Manu who enunciated caste rules is a Brahmin?.or even Vedas were written by them. Our Gods Rama, Krshna, Muruga are non Brahmins. Rishis Valmiki, Vyasa are non Brahmins, The graet kings of Tamilnadu were all non-brahmins without whose accepatance nothing could have been enunciated. Then why say Brahmins only created castes. By this I don’t try to say caste system is bad and who enunciated is a criminal. It had its advantage for governance and order in Society and had relevance in the time it was followed and suited the beliefs that existed in that period. So it was accepted by the Society as a whole as a useful system that served the needs of the time in which it existed.
Who would have divided people as Brahmins, Vysyas, Khatriyas & Sudras? It must have been that they belonged to the caste by the work they took upon them selves and were adept at doing. It was not as if some one called and told people to join this or that caste. You preferred to do particular jobs than some others, then you belonged and were identified by that caste name to which the work belonged. It was a matter of convenience there was no ignominy meant to be attached to any one.caste. Whatever we perceive as ills today must have been later developments. Our Vedas and Upanishads preach the highest ideal that the Souls of all Living is God himself and hence are equal. So it is not Brahmins who enunciated the caste system as we see it today but it was all the vested interests in the system who misused and nurtured it and benefited by it and now the very same people trying to find Brahmins as their scape goats. They have not shed their nefarious caste game plan even now. They are spreading wool over the eyes of gullible Tamil people. They use the same caste they proclaim they are opposed to, to capture votes and power, get education, college, IIT, IIM admissions, jobs and then when convenient blame it on Brahmins. They are enacting very same drama they had enacted for many thousands of years before to feed on the caste system but still blame it on Brahmins. What do we call this INGENUITY OF SMARTIES or GULLIBILITY OF THE COMMON MAN.
You decide !!!!!.
Having served as social worker within UN system, in over 40 countries during past over 35 yrs, I am shocked/disillusioned to see how India is in fact perpectuating discriminatory practices under the mask of abolishing caste-based discrimination.
The whole world has acknowledged discriminations of all sorts are crimes by humanity against humanity, and owed to abolish such inhuman practices in all walks of life, inter alia thru right education, awareness and economic well-being.
But our DK/DMK “thalaivars” and their cohorts have long owed to make “castes” as their successful business model to build and (mis)lead the Tamil empire. Their simple strategies are to keep people poor , ill-educated and uneducated and feed them with color TVs, red/black bordered veshties/ thundoos, ever-flowing never-in-supply sacheted-TASMAC liquors, unending catchy slogans matched by newly invented Tamil New Years, vizhas, etc. etc.
The present regimes both at the center and in the state have acquired great survival skills at the expense of democractic values and human dignity.
Particularly, the elite “dravidian class” are so nicely socially-well-entrenched and their scheme of things beginning with eradicating the socalled Brahmin domination in order to emancipate the truly oppressed like Dalits,… upto the present crusade to uphold the seamy side of creamy layer politics.. There is no true salvation and democracy for honest Tamils and others, unless and until we realise the social justice rhetoric is as dubious as rationalism.
Unfortunately. it is not easy how Tamils at large can be made to understand this game of “evils”.
God save Tamils!
hi……….
all over india,politicians used to blame brahmins to gain in elections.
because they know that if we blame the brahmins then there is no problem because there is no brahmin politicians and most of the brahmins are employees so most of the brahmins will not vote .
today see the brahmin priests position in economically most of them earn only 2000-3000 per month(90%) .
there is no reservations and even in govt. schools their children didn’t getting free books.
if any student got a seat in any university or in engg or medical colleges they didn’t getting any hostel seat.
ultimately i am saying that don’t misunderstand brahmins because most of brahmins fought for country and they got a good name to our country all over world and also i request you just remember your childhood,when you are in school your teachers belong to brahmin community had comment u about your caste?no never they behave like that.
1. What is Brahmin and what is brahminism? Is it a hereditary by-birth tag? Is it foisted in society to show superiority over others and psychologically intimidate others? Can someone enlight us? Please be specific and truthful, and don’t not play with words and excuses.
2. Dr Ambedkar said, ‘castism is untouchability. Unless castism goes, untouchability will not go.’ I say, ‘castism is worst form of racism and insult to human dignity.’
3. Till there is castism, there will be reservations and social tensions. Reservation to go, castism have to go. Let people come out openly to press for a national law banning caste and castism. Let, we all identify us as Hindus, follower of Sanatan Dharma, and nothing else.
Bharat
=====
Bharat, bulldog, Ramesh, Srivasa, Muthuswamy and Murthy: Thank you all for your comments.
I originally quoted this interview because I was (and still am) keen to understand the reasons, the origin and the basis of the almost pathological hatred that I sense towards Brahmins in Tamil Nadu.
I am curious to know why and how did it came about…what precipitated it…and is anyone doing anything to ameliorate the situation…
In essence, I am trying to probe deeper into the history of the anti-Brahminism movement in the South…
Can anyone shed any light on that? Thanks