Why are Christian Missionaries targeting India – III

To all:

1. I am always for peaceful co-existence (PC), I mean true PC. However, the very term co-existence is not one-sided, but multi-sided. I can’t co-exist with others, if others don’t wish to co-exist. Others want I surrender, give up everything of my own and accept their will, their way. In that situation, co-existence is impossible. Give us example of one place on earth, where chrsitians and muslims allowed others peaceful co-existence. They terrorised natives to bow before them, accept their will and order. Read the Goa Inquisition and see how barbaric and cruel it was. And the man who did all these cruel barbarity is a glorified Saint.

2. Japan surprised and shocked USA by attacking Pearl Harbour. What US did? They took their own time and then taught Japan a lession perhaps it will never forget till its existence. Today, Japan is, no doubt, an economic power, but a sub-ordinate power under USA. It ives like wet cat under US nuclear umbrella and command.

3. Christian missionaries Soul Harvesting terrorism is not a new phenomenon, neither in India nor outside. They destroyed culture after culture across the world. Look at NE India, even at time of independence there was not a single christian majority state. Today, they shout Nagaland for Christ and a tiny Hindus can’t even built a mandir. Most of NE India’s militancy now run by the church and christians. They almost encircled Asom, which remained Hindu majority, from all sides. Its a matter of time, they will start sessation movement like East Timor and their western masters will overtly support it.

4. What Dalai Lama had to say about his country’s invasion and then colonisation by the China. He said, before Buddhism, Tibetans were warior people and they conqured others. After Buddhism entered Tibet, Tibetans became so non-violent that they lost any sense of thinking to protect themselves. Consequence, when China invaded, they had nothing to do but surrender and live as sub-ordinate and second class people.

5. There is a saying in Samskrit, Veer Bhugya Vasundhara (the World only enjoyed by the braves). Hindus have did, and seen enough cowardice and sweet lectures. Enough is enough. Half a million Kashmiri Hindus (they call themselves Pandits) run away from their thousand years of living place, they had no guts to resist and fight. Because, they never learned how to protect themselves and turned themselves into bunch of cowards and impotents. They lived under the protection of Dogras. Had there been half a million Dogras or Sikhs in Kashmir valley, they would not have run away. Why Jammu people revolted in recent Amarnath land issue? Simply because, Jammu is dominated by the Dogras (about 65% are Dogras).

6. Why not we talk about dareness of christians in Orissa (they comprise around 2%) to brutally and mercilessly killing a 84 years old Swamji and his deciples on Janmastami night? When an Autralian missioanry was killed, news run months and condemnations for years. And he was decorated with national awards, for converting Hindus into christianity. Why double standards? People revolted in Orissa, retaliated and why not? Are Hindus born to bear humiliations and oppression all the time? For cowards yes, not for the braves.

7. Christian missionaries Soul Harvesting terrorism on Hidnus have to stop, stop permanently if govt and people want to see peace and harmony. Else, nothing can stop it from more conflicts. Its not my wish, its natural consequence. Instead of addressing the illegal Conversions and Hindu abusing actions by the christians, Govt of India warns states with article 355 (precursor to article 356). What a nation we live, is it a covert christian nation? Not covert anymore, now it overt.

8. Those Hindus thinks all such retaliations are by VHP or Bajrandal, need to come out from sicular medias traps. There may be some incidents, in most cases they are spontaneous. Does that means all Hindus overnight turned into VHP and Bajrangdal? Well, that would be wonderful. And what secular govt will do, if all Hindus turned into VHP and BD? Every Hindus seeing situations of Hindus in J&K, Kerala, Asom and many other places. They don’t need VHP or BD to get incited and agitated. This is my experience, not from textbooks.

Bharat

Statement of Shri Ravi Shankar Prasad
National Spokesperson & MP

The BJP Condemns Abuse Of Article 355 by The UPA Government

The BJP strongly condemns the move of the Government of India to issue directives under Article 355 of the Constitution of India to the governments of Karnataka and Orissa, ruled by the BJP and the BJP-BJD alliance respectively. The entire action is politically motivated, highly prejudicial, patently discriminatory and a belated attempt by the UPA government to divert the popular attention over its abject failure to take strong and effective measures to contain terrorism in the Country which has left a painful legacy of insecure India where terrorists are killing the innocent people with impunity.

Read more here.
http://www.bjp.org/

Well said, Bharat ….. I am sure you will find a lot of support for your views on this blog as well outside.

In fact, Raj Thackeray must be one of your most ardent supporters, given that he has been using the same tactics in Mumbai. Of course, his battle is against a different community, but that is such a small point, a mere bagatelle. Since, you are all cut from the same cloth and what is sauce for the goose, etc etc

I got the following in an email. I am posting it here, as it is, for the sake of those who love being fanatics and can thrive only in hostile atmosphere. I wonder how different are we from Taliban and other fanatics around the world. Given a chance we would give to India what they have done to their country: Destruction and Mayhem. One can see it already.

pDhirendra Panda writes:

I am born of a hindu Brahmin family. My father and other relatives being devotedly religious persons used to tell me that sanyasis are symbols of love, care, truth, justice above earthly hatred-ness, jealousy, violence. We were told about the stories of Swami Vivekananda, Ramakrishna Param Hansa, Sri Chaitanya, Jayadev, Aurovindo.

During my childhood, it would have been quite difficult to digest that sadhus and saints engaged for spreading hate and violence. Similarly there would be many people to disbelieve that sadhus are campaigning for votes to a particular party and using religion for political ends. So nobody should get surprised if they call for wiping out the Christians from Kandhamal.

On 6th August 2008 there were 144 in and around Swadhinata Sangrami Sadan Ground. Considering the announcements and assurance given by the Police Officers and others, it was thought the government will not allow any rally or meeting of VHP. But the VHP had its Sraddhanjali sabha (Tribute paying meet) and along with sadhu (ascetic holy man) sanths (saints), BJP leaders such as Suresh Pujari (President,Orissa BJP), Prasanna Mishra, Panchanan Rout, MLA Pratap Sarangi and Subash Chouhan, Bajranga Dal leader were present in the Meeting.

Please read some of the statements given in the meeting

Mahant Swami Satchidananda Maharaj, presiding over the Meet:
Sacrifice of Swamiji will be meaningful once the cow-slaughter and conversion is totally stopped in the state. In each village committees will be formed to actualize the dreams of Swamiji. If the villagers get awareness, these will be stopped automatically.

Tridandi Swami Bhagwan Das:
Now the Hindus have become minority. There is an international conspiracy behind it. The Christians, majority in 186 countries have not only killed Laxmanananda, but also doing this; they have challenged the entire Hindu Society.

Swami Arupananda Maharaj:
Attack on Swamiji is the same as attacking the ‘Hindu Religion’. All the saints/sadhus need to counter-attack unitedly otherwise the entire India will be converted into a Christian nation.

Swami Brahmananda Saraswati:
Once the Englishmen came for trade and commerce had occupied our country. Now Christians in the name of ‘the minorityism’ have come again to take away our ‘independence’. If the attack continues like this, the Hindu community will be wiped out one day.

Swami Satyapriya Maharaj, Arya Samaj:
The Government is like a eunuch that could not give protection to Swamiji, but continue in giving protection to murderers.

Abinash Baba, Joranda:
This is a country of saints and sadhus and the country is ‘functioning’ for them only. The Government should provide security and protection to mathas and temples.

Ramacharan Das Maharaj:
Limiting ourselves in mere blaming the Government will not serve the purpose. We have to realize and decide that whoever will be able to understand the Hindu religion and respect the saints and sadhus can sit on the throne. If this happens, all the problems will be solved.

Swami Chanmayananda Maharaj:
The Hindus occupying 85 % of total population are screaming, but the government pays no heed to it. The situation is like this only because we are not united. If we unitedly put all our votes for one party, everything will be set aright. Shankaracharya should be entrusted with the responsibility to decide whom to vote for and issue ‘whips’ to cast all our votes accordingly. By this whichever party comes to power will be compelled to respect our words.

Ashok Sahu, President, Hindu Jagaran Samukhya (former DG, Police Assam):
[Archbishop] Raphael Cheenath, President, Loka Sangram Dalit Manch and John Doyal have hands behind the murder of Laxmanananda.

Gouri Prasad Rath, General Secretary, VHP:
Now Orissa is run under demonic prowess. The sadhus and sanths were arrested for no reason. They were not allowed to have darshan (see) to Sri Ram temple. The Police should beg apology for insulting the Hindu community in Orissa by arresting the sadhus and saints. As we were not allowed to hold condolence (sradhhanjali) rally, henceforth we’ll never allow anybody to hold peace rallies here. Unless the killers of Swamiji are arrested, there will be no peace in Orissa.

Ashok Tiwary, VHP’s Akhil Bharatiya Dharma Jagaran Pramukh; Ramanuj Das Moharaj, Chintamani Parbat Maharaj, Mahanta Raghubir Das Maharaj, Mahanta Ram Charan Das Maharaj, Mahant Ramakrishna Das Maharaj, Sankarananda Maharaj, Mahant Narayan Baba, Brahmachari Jiban Chaitanya Maharaj, Swami Prana Swarupananda Maharaj have taken vow ? The Christians will be wiped out from Kandhamal.__,_._,___

FYI. New target areas of Soul Harvesting Business.

World’s Former Only Hindu Country Opens to Christianity
By Jennifer Riley
Christian Post Reporter
Mon, Jul. 14 2008 01:56 PM EDT
http://www.christianpost.com/article/20080714/world-s-former-only-hindu-country-opens-to-christianity.htm

Continuing violence against christian tribals in orissa – the hate campaign rolls on (so much for the alleged tolerance of hinduism):
http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1193118
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/fresh-violence-arson-in-kandhamal-curfew-clamped/365791

Here is a very interesting set of articles from DNA: Ultras, zealots, both misuse faith
http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1190773&pageid=0

The ass brigades of VHP and Bajrang Dal keep up their diatribe about conversions – poor insecure, useless souls. And, these self-styled swamis would probably be better addressed as Talib XYZ, etc.

Carry on guys, breaking up India. Why do you protest against Raj Thackeray, then?

*** COMMENT COMBINED ***

PART I PART II AND PART III… and still bloggers are going about the christian conversion debates!.

I am commenting for the first time on this thread.. because a question arose in my mind… about how knowingly and unknowingly mostly all or should i say 100% all of the people who have commented against christian missionary conversions could turn to be double standard or hypocrates.

All of are talking about dhrama and hindu religion and how missionaries are converting people… Well Well NEWS FLASH or REALITY CHECK PEOPLE.. KNOWINGLY OR UNKNOWINGLY YOU ALL HAVE FALLEN INTO THEIR TRAP AND ARE SOME WHAT CONVERTED and Accepted CHristainity or Chirstain culture…

Now you must be wondering how and what am i talking…
just ask some questions to yourself… and if most of the answers are yes.. then you are either converted or accepted
christian culture.

1)DO YOU CELEBRATE YOUR BIRTHDAY with a CAKE? n Candles
( hindu birthdays should be celebrated with a sweet dish
like kheers .. and aarti and not candles)

2)Do you celebrate HAPPY NEW YEAR on 31st Decemeber!!… hmm we celebrate christain new year… and some of the people even christmas… (how many of the hindus even know when are their new years of their respective community and celebrate with the same eager as do for christain new year)

3)Valentines day!!! …( i dont even want to get started on this one)

Well i know most of us have celebrated any of the above major christains festivals and ceremonies… so semi-converted ones … before this thread reaches to part IV… introspect and think about your own contributions towards this whole aspect.

And As far as WHY CHRISTIAN MISSIONARIES ARE TARGETING INDIA?… BEcause They know they can easily put a TOPI(cap) on the educated crowd of India, via there strong marketing of festivals and products…via american and other christain countries companies..

So bloggers no double standards!!!.. either completely oppose christainity and chirstian culture n products or dont comment on conversions.!

जय हिंद ! जय महाराष्ट्र !!

***

some of the other signals of semi converted ones

1)They send and flaunt by sayin “my kid goes to a convent schools or colleges?”
I have seen on matrimonials advertisements.. boy/girl convent educated! …. i wonder the only thing remaining is to write convent converted!!..

Aren’t you already Christianized & Westernized?
Question also for the Hard core Hindutva peddlers.

Some more check points:
1. Do you prefer wearing Shirts and trousers more than traditional Indian dhoti kurta?

2. Do you wear tie when you dress up formally for interviews and 2-piece suits for other occasions?

3. Do you prefer any western genre of music even for Hindi songs than the Indian classical music? Raag Bhairavi or….

4. Do you love Guitar over Sitar, Piano over Harmonium, Drum set over Tabla/Dholak?

5. Do you love western style dancing over Indian dance forms in the discotheques and parties? Check out even the 50s/60s ‘Hindi’ movies and know the truth about Indian hypocrisies.

I was searching through the net, after reading the Tarun Vijay’s article for Swami Vivekananda celebrating christmas… Well i wasnt able to find any link which states that Swami VIvekananda initiated it..

yes i did find links of the vidyapith celebrating christmas
But, it doesnt says it was initiated by vivekananda…

” Anyways i am not opposing a hindu celebrating christain newyears or attending easter partys or chirstmas or cutting cakes the point i am trying to make is “if those hindus who are celebrating the birth of christainity and christain culture..then why are these same hindus oppossing conversions ?” if anyone wants to be secular.. dont be selective… or else you are just another double dholki

The same logic i would like to apply for vijay’s article
that if Vivekananda did initiate to celebrate chirstmas or the birth of christ… and IF the answer is yes..then was Vivekananda opposed to chirstain conversions?

जय हिंद! जय महाराष्ट्र !!

http://www.vidyapith.org/Folder_2006/News2005.shtml

Here is some material taken from Sita Ram Goel’s book “Vindicated by Time” based on the 1956 Niyogi commission report on missionary activities.

We are not against ANY religion. Infact, I myself have read the New Testament many many times, and have found great wisdom in it. What we are against is the unscrupulous conversion efforts done by missionaries who exploit the misery of man to make him change his religion, and are funded by western churches on a grand scale. We must get this across too – increasingly people think that if you are pro-hindu, you are anti-muslim/anti-christian. I am certainly pro-hindu, and am NOT anti anyone. In fact I feel there is room for Jesus WITHIN hinduism. I regard Jesus as a hindu saint.

___________________________________________________________

The Report revealed that the bulk of this foreign money received ostensibly for maintaining ?educational and medical institutions? was spent on proselytization. ?It has been contended,? said the Report, ?that most of the amount is utilised for creating a class of professional proselytisers, both foreign as well as Indian. We have not been able to get the figures of the salaries which the foreign Missionaries receive for their service in India. Only Rev. Hartman (Amravati No. 1) was pleased to declare that his salary was 63 dollars per month paid from Rome, plus free quarters and vehicle allowance. One can have some idea of the scale of salaries of American Missionaries from the fact that in the American Evangelical and Reformed Church there are 28 Missionaries on the India roll and under the head of Missionary salaries and appurtenances the figure comes to 90,072,23 dollars& nbsp;(American Evangelistic and Reformed Church Blue Book, 1955, pages 56,60). They are supplied with well-furnished bungalows, and they command resources in vehicles and other things.?73 At the same time it noted a great disparity between the scales of salaries and allowances paid to foreign missionaries on the one hand and to their native mercenaries on the other.

There were 480 foreign missionaries working in Madhya Pradesh at that time. Out of them as many as 236 were Americans. The Report gave a count of foreign missionaries, Americans and others, stationed in the 22 districts of the then Madhya Pradesh. ?Besides those,? it added, ?included in the number given by the National Christian Council in the Christian Handbook of India 1954-55, it appears from the statement of Rev. R.C. Das that there is a large number of unattached evangelists. Rev. Das?s statement receives support from the remark made in the Compiler?s introduction to the Christian Hand-Book of India 1954-55 that the increased personnel has occurred in the smaller Missions most of which do not yet have any organised Churches.?74

The methods of proselytisation had remained the same as in days of old. The Report gave concrete instances of how mission schools were used to influence the minds of young people. Harijan and ?Adivasi? students came in for special attention. They were ?given free boarding, lodging and books? provided they attended Christian prayers. Bible classes were made compulsory by treating as absent for the whole day those students who failed to be present in those classes. School celebrations were used for showing the victory of the cross over all other symbols. Hospitals were used for putting pressure on poor class patients to embrace Christianity. The richest harvest, however, was reaped in mission orphanages which collected orphans during famines and other natural calamities such as floods and earthquakes. ?No wonder,? observed the Report, ?that the largest number of converts are from such backward classes living in areas where due to various causes only Mission schools and hospitals exist. Most conversions have been doubtless insincere admittedly brought about in expectation of social service benefits and other material considerations.?75

Another device employed for proselytisation was money-lending. Roman Catholic missions had specialised in this field. Poor people often approached the local missionary for loans which were written off if the debtor became a convert; otherwise he had to repay it with interest which were often found difficult. Protestant missionaries and others cited before the Committee instances of how this method worked. One of the conditions forgetting a loan, for instance, was that the recipient agreed to chop off the topknot (choti), the symbol of his being a Hindu. ?Some of the people,? the Report noted, ?who had received loans were minors and casual labourers. It also appeared that when one member of a family had taken a loan, all the other members of that family were entered in the book as potential converts. The rate of interest charged was 10 per cent and in a large number of cases ex amined, one year?s interest was deducted in advance. On being questioned, the people without any hesitation, said that their only purpose in going to the Mission had been to get money; and all said that without the lure of money none would have sought to become Christian.?76 Some other allurements such as the ?promise of gift of salt, plough, bullocks and even milk powder received from abroad? were used to the same effect.77

There were several other ways of attracting converts. For instance, the new converts were employed as pracharaks on salaries ranging from Rs. 40/- to Rs. 100/- per month. This by itself proved an attractive proposition to those who were not in a position or qualified to earn even Rs. 20/-. Christians working in various government departments were exhorted and expected to participate in the game. Those who did not help were cursed in missionary publications. Christians placed in higher positions and missionaries who became influential members of the Janapad Sabhas put pressure on junior officers for influencing people in favour of Christianity.

The Report also noted ?various methods of propagating Christianity.?78 Missionary publications ?attacked idol worship in rather offensive terms.? Dramas in which idol worship was ridiculed were performed in schools and elsewhere. Songs to the same effect were composed and sung. Rama was ?described as a God who destroyed Ravan and was contrasted with Jesus who died for the wicked.? Methods evolved for conveying Christianity in Hindu cultural forms were also in evidence. Some of them were plainly dishonest, as for instance, ?the expression occurring in Tulsidas?s Ramayan, viz. ?Gidapujan? was interpreted to the people as ?Girjaghar? i.e., a Church.?79 But, on the whole, preference was given to vicious attacks on Hindui sm, which was held up as a false religion. ?Such virulent and sinister attacks on Hinduism,? observed the Report, ?are in no way a departure from the manner which characterised the Christian preaching in the past, which Gandhiji referred to, particularly Bishop Heber?s famous hymn, ?where every prospect pleases and only man is vile?.?80

The Report contained a section on Mass Conversions brought about by material inducements. ?If conversion is an individual act,? it noted, ?one would expect deep thought and study of the particular religion one wanted to embrace. But what we have found is groups of illiterate Adivasis, with families and children getting their topknots cut and being shown as Christians. Most of them do not know even the rudiments of the new religion… The Government has supplied us with a list of persons recently converted in the Surguja district after the promulgation of the Constitution. A perusal thereof will show that about 4000 Uraons were converted in two years. Persons of varying ages from 60 years to 1 year are shown as converts and the list includes women and children also. We have met many Uraons in the course of our tours and we were struck very much by their total absence of religious feeling.?81

The Committee had ?reliable information that Mission organisations possess upto-date records of Baptisms.?82 But they refused to produce these records. ?It would not be unsafe,? concluded the Report, ?to presume that the reluctance on the part of the Roman Catholic Mission organisations to produce such evidence was in no small measure due to the fear of the Truth being out? As a rule, groups have been converted, and we find ?individual conversion? has been an exception rather than the rule. We have come across cases of individual conversions only of persons who are village leaders and they have invariably been followed by ?Mass conversions? of the entire village soon after. We have not found it possible to accept the contention that the immediate material prosperity of these converted leaders bore no causal relation to their conversions.?83

The Report expressed the view that conversions led directly to denationalisation. Greetings such as ?Ram Ram? and ?Jai Hind? were substituted with ?Jai Yeshu?. ?The idea of the unique Lordship of Christ,? recorded the Report, ?is propagated in rural areas by the exhibition of the film ?King of Kings?, which we had the pleasure of witnessing at Buldana. The supremacy of the Christian flag over the National flag of India was also depicted in the drama which was staged in a school at Jabaipur.?84 The missionary paper, Nishkalanka, had written, ?Why does India desire that Portugal which has been exercising sovereignty for 400 years over Goa should surrender it? The fact is that a large majority of residents of Goa are quite contented with their present condition. Only a handful of Goans resident in Goa and in India are shouting for the merger of Goa with India. This attitude is not justified and those who are following this course are giving unrighteous lead to India.?85 The missions thus sided with Western imperialism and pooh-poohed India?s aspiration to reclaim national territory under foreign occupation.

Finally, the Report found no substance in the Christian complaint that the Government of Madhya Pradesh was following a policy of discrimination against Christians. ?The Government of Madhya Pradesh,? it said, ?have throughout followed a policy of absolute neutrality and non-interference in matters concerning religion and allegations of discrimination against Christians and harassment of them by Government officials have not been established. Such allegations have been part of the old established policy of the Missions to overawe local authority and to carry on propaganda in foreign countries.?86

The Report was quite clear in its larger perceptions. ?Evangelisation in India,? it said, ?appears to be part of the uniform world policy to revive Christendom for re-establishing Western supremacy and is not prompted by spiritual motives. The objective is to disrupt the solidarity of the non-Christian societies, and the mass conversion of a considerable section of Adivasis with this ulterior motive is fraught with danger to the security of the State.?87 The Christian missions were making a deliberate and determined ?attempt to alienate Indian Christian Community from their nation.?88 The Community was most likely to become a victim of foreign manipulations in times of crisis.89 The history of the Christian missions provided ample proof that religion had been used for political purposes.90 Evangelization was not a religious philosophy but a force for politicisation.91 The Church in India was not independent but accountable to those who paid for its upkeep. The concept of ?Partnership in Obedience? which covered the flow of foreign finances to the Church was of a piece with the strategy of Subsidiary Alliances which the East India Company had employed earlier for furthering and consolidating its conquests.92 And conversions were nothing but politics by other means.93

The recommendations made by the Report followed logically from these perceptions. It recommended that (1) those missionaries whose primary object is proselytisation should be asked to withdraw and the large influx of foreign missionaries should be checked; (2) the use of medical and other professional services as a direct means of making conversions should be prohibited by law; (3) attempts to convert by force or fraud or material inducements, or by taking advantage of a person?s inexperience or confidence or spiritual weakness or thoughtlessness, or by penetrating into the religious conscience of persons for the purpose of consciously altering their faith, should be absolutely prohibited; (4) the Constitution of India should be amended in order to rule out propagation by foreigners and conversions by force, fraud and other illicit means; (5) legislative measures should be enacted for controlling conversion by illegal means; (6) rules relating to registration of doctors, nurses and other personnel employed in hospitals should be suitably amended to provide a condition against evangelistic activities during professional service; and (7) circulation of literature meant for religious propaganda without approval of the State Government should be prohibited.94

@ Sajan,

I went to a few of the above links to check and edit, if necessary.

However, the three links that I checked (India, Karnataka, Orissa) all seem to list facts/actual events. There was no opinion expressed there, only facts and dates summarising the events that have occurred. And, neither are the links disputed as every event/fact seems to be supported by sources.

So, are you saying that only a rose-tinted vision of India should be allowed to exist? Or do you not understand the concept of Wikipedia?

This short article by Khushwant Singh appeared in Hindustan Times – Delhi edition, on October 4th, 2008.

With Malice Towards one and ALL – Faith, no more

RECENT INCIDENTS of violence and vandalism against Christians and their churches deserve to be condemned unreservedly. They have blackened the fair face of Mother India and ruined the reputation of Hindus being the most religiously tolerant people in the world. At the same time, we must take a closer look at people who convert from one faith to another.

To start with, let it be understood that these days there are no forced conversions anywhere in the world. India is no exception. Those who assert that the poor, innocent and ignorant of India are being forced to accept Christianity are blatant liars. A few, very few educated and well-to-do men and women convert to another faith when they do not find solace in the faith of their ancestors. Examples are to be found in America and Europe of men and women of substance turning from Judaism and Christianity to Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam and Sikhism.

There are also men and women who convert to the faith of those they wish to marry We have plenty of cases of Hindu, Muslim, Christian and Sikh inter-marriages. However, the largest number of converts come from communities discriminated against. The outstanding example was that of Dalit leader Bhimrao Ambedkar who led his Mahar community to embrace Buddhism because they were discriminated against by upper caste Hindus.

This is also true of over 90 per cent of Indian Muslims whose ancestors being lower caste embraced Islam which gave them equal status. That gives lie to the often-repeated slander that Islam made converts by the sword.

An equally large number of people converted out of gratitude. They were neglected, ignorant and poor, when strangers came to look after them, opened schools and hospitals for them, taught them, healed them and helped them to stand on their own feet to hold their heads high, they felt grateful towards their benefactors. Most of them were Christian missionaries who worked in remote villages and brought hope to the lives of people who were deprived of hope.

To this day Christian missionaries run the best schools, colleges and hospitals in our country They are inexpensive and free of corruption. They get converts because of the sense of gratitude they generate. Can this be called forcible conversion? Why don’t the great champions of Hinduism look within their hearts and find out why so many are disenchanted by their pretensions of piety? Let them first set their own houses in order, purge the caste system out of Hindu society and welcome with open arms al1those who wish to join them.

No one will then convert from Hinduism to another religion.

@Objective Eye

Can you please read this link. It describes the translation of tribal language Kuduk in to English. If you are sure of what you are posting and commenting here than read with your own eyes. And copy was translated in Jarkhand Assembly.

http://www.crusadewatch.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=986&Itemid=

Beware of Hindu-name covert christians.

How many Hindus know, Pranoy Roy of infamous anti-Hindu NDTV channel is a convert christian? I doubt not even by few Hindus. We Hindus need to wake up!

Pranoy Roy profile.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prannoy_Roy
http://wapedia.mobi/en/Prannoy_Roy
———
Prannoy Roy
Born Prannoy Roy
March 7, 1949 (1949-03-07)
Calcutta, India
Occupation Journalist
Spouse Radhika Roy (married 1983)
Religious belief(s) Christian
Notable credit(s) World this week,

——
PS. It is not what his faith is our concern, but his actions. His actions are anti-Hindu to the core.

What made Hindus angry in Karnataka
…

Neither the Indian press nor the western correspondents bothered to write about what made Hindus angry in Karnataka: Newlife, one important westernfunded missionary centre ( http://www.newlifevoice.org), began making conversions in and around Mangalore by accosting poor people in market areas, or in bus stands, befriending them and then taking them to churches to introduce them to the father.

Upon introduction they were paid Rs 2,500 per person and then taken to the Velankanni shrine, in Tamil Nadu, where they would get another Rs. 3,000.

When they finally converted to Christianity by changing the name, they got an incentive of Rs 10,000 onwards.

Newlife would then give them instructions to abandon wearing tilak on forehead, not to visit and offer prayers at the Hindu temples, replacing the photos and idols of Hindu gods and goddesses with a Cross, etc.

read here.
http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/story.aspx?artid=oqi6n5w6kGE%3d&Title=What+made+Hindus+angry+in+Karnataka&SectionID=XVSZ2Fy6Gzo%3d&MainSectionID=XVSZ2Fy6Gzo%3d&SEO=NEW+LIFE&SectionName=m3GntEw72ik%3d

About François Gautier: So much for his credibility on any of his writings.

He is a staunch supporter of Hindu nationalist movements and has written many books on Hinduism, Indian politics and Hindutva. Among his books are “Un autre Regard sur l’Inde” (Editions du Tricorne, Geneva-Paris); “Arise O India” (Har Anand 1999), “Cry O my bloved India”, “A Western journalist on India” (Har-Anand 2001), “India’s Self Denial (Editions Auroville Press, 2001) and “Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, a guru of Joy” (India Today Book Club, 2002).

For more details check the link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francois_Gautier

Dear Sir,
I do not need a noted Hindu basher and congress psychopant like Khushwant teach me about Hinduism vis a vis Xtianity with respect to service.
Prior to the advent of the so called great service rendered by the Xtian’s let me tell you there were enough of the rest houses available for people wherever they went.
The principle of Hindu philosophy as regards is “Athithi Devo Bhava”. Which means that the guest is treated like GOD!
Even the HATED MANU, of this type of fraternity, has always advised thousands of years ago that guests are to be treated as GODS!
Schooling. Everybody knew their trade and none was the worse for it. These current do gooders know only one type of education that which the Britishers wanted for their Clerical slave market. Even today they advocate it as being the best without recourse.
I am reminded of a statement in Pygmalion of GBS in which Eliza Doolitile states to Prof. Higgins “you have now made me so educated that I CANNOT EVEN SELL FLOWERS for a living.
That is the status many of the poor educated Indians are in now. They will slog for fifteen hours just to avoid their work as techicians, on the farms, as painters, carpenters or anything.
If this is said, then these do gooders will harp upon the supposed Caste system. A System which these do gooders did not understand but used it for their nefarious activities. We Indians swallowed it hook line and sinker as it came from the mouth of a white man.
Coming to medicines the first of the best of medical life has been proved to be Ayurveda. Many of the Ayurvedic Doctors were, sadly for the dogooders were not Brahmins, the symbol; of hatred for these do gooders.
Ayurvedic doctors were not taught to earn money through their treatments. they were to take what was given to them. The true Hippocratic oath was known to them. They did not make money on the illness as most of these do gooders are known for.
All this hogwash is only an eyewash. The real truth is that history has been distorted to such a great extent that these lies, that as if only these xtians brought caring to this world, exists.
Let us not lose hope and fight this cancer that is trying to destroy this great way of life as these xtians have done of great civilisations in many parts of the world.
Many of the bloggers are happy that you are trying to come out with the truth. WE WILL FIGHT THIS DISTORTION and many of us are with you Shantanu Saab!
Regards,
vck

Objective Eye

You want hindus to be defenseless! Can I ask why? What kind of arguments and debates you want that is natural?. Why everything which is said against christianity is wrong and everything that is said against Hindus is correct? What you want to suggest us? We have all right to protect our Dharama. Hindus never indulged in cheap conversion profession. Dont you think that is point of admiration rather than defending Christians. By the way we dont have anything against christians but only with the part of them who are engaged in such cheap method of conversion. Forget about indians, even chriatians condemn this kind of conversion activities that is well flourished all over the world.

IS SPREADING FAITH A CRIME? History Says NO!

• From India, the Hinduism spread to Malay Peninsula, Cambodia, Annam, Sumatra, Java, Bali and Borneo besides the Indian Sub-continent.

• From India, the Buddhism spread to China, Korea, Japan, Sri Lanka, Tibet, Myanmar, Thailand and Vietnam.

• From Arabia, the Islam spread to Asia and Africa.

• From Israel Christianity spread to Europe & America

Missed out this one:

“Go into all lands and preach this gospel. Tell them that the poor and the lowly, the rich and the high are one”. – The Buddha

Dear Sir,
I request you to go to the blogspot viveka-jyothi and the letter and resolution drafted by the do gooders with the parish leaders in attendance, which calls for the killing by the poor parishoners, of the Hindu Leader Lakshminanda Saraswathi is available for viewing.
The actual letter written is available as a scanned copy.
Regards,
vck

Dear Sir,
This ia an extract from the “Wise and otherwise”, A Salute to Life, by Ms. Sudha Murthy, the wife of Shri. Narayanmurthy, founder of Infosys Ltd.
This a part of the essay writgten in Chapter 6 “An old Man’s Ageless wisdom”.
She has travelled all over India in her quest for truth and to use her talents as the founder of the Infosys Foundation, for the betterment of Society and India in particular.
In the part she travels to Orissa” The least developed state in India”. She goes to a tribal village in a district known as Kalahandi and this is what she has to say as she comes into contact with a tribal elder and her translator conveys to her what the old Tribal “Uneducated Elder” has to say;
She gives him some notes of money and says that with these papers he can buy “Firewood, Lots of saris, bags of Salt, matchsticks and even A PIECE OF LAND!
The Tribal elder looks at her sympathetically and says” For this paper people go away from our ancestral land, leave our forests and go to the cities. Have we not led a “Complete Life” without this paper? Our ancestors did.
We are children of of God, settled happily without this paper. This is God’s land. Nobody owns this land. No river is created by us. No mountain is made by us. The wind does not listen to us. The rain does not ask our permission. These are gifts of God.
How can we ‘sell’ or ‘buy’ land? I do not understand. When nothing is yours, then how can you make such transactions? The little paper of yours can turn our lives upside down.
The question she raises; Who is wise? The old man or us with our fingers on the pulse of the internet!
This is the quintessence of the way of life in India. Call it Hinduism if you want it.
These are the same words that an Old Native India Chief of the US natives asked a representative of the government when they wanted to accquire the land that belonged to the NATIVES BY HOOK OR BY CROOK.
Has all this education really given us a better life? The richest country in the world is in dolddrums and people very “Educated” are living on the streets and in Tents, with their lives turned upside down.
If the paper they held in the form of degrees was so powerful why is it happening?>
These are people like doctors, Teachers, Executives and the likes. They were educated; They were leaders in the sense of the world, then why it did happen to them? If they could not guide themselves how can they guide others?Today we have the dogooders come on the scene who promise a better life with education! Can it always be true?
They are supposed to provide better health. By the way the Tribal Elder wasa supposed to be more than a hundred yearts old without a single strand of white hair. May be genetic disorder prevented his hair from becoming white!That is why Jesus said, Remove the beam in your eye before you remove the mote in the otherman’s eye.
Conversions do not give solutions. Conversions only lead top heartburns. People live a way of life they like.
Leave the people alone. Let them live their lives.
Nobody reqiures salvation. If they need it they will find it.
Live and let live. Leave one to his own belief. If they are condemned to go to anywhere let them be. Leave them alone.
Then we do not need a new political party. We need acceptance of everyway of life.
No only one way of life.
Regards,
vck

Conversion has nothing to do with Karnataka or BJP or Hindus. It is wilddpread all over the world. I agree if converson is taking place where people has no religion of their own. But here they are going to everyone even those who have their own religion.

“Lumpen” Who?those who killed swami? Why did that lumpen did not go to govt complaing about Swami? Why do they have to kill someone? Law applies to all not to any single community. If doing riots is as much condemnable,than killing is something more than riots. If this peaceloving evengalists is provoking killing and riots than it is not peace loving org at all.

@ VCK:

“The Tribal elder looks at her sympathetically and says” …….. How can we ’sell’ or ‘buy’ land? I do not understand. When nothing is yours, then how can you make such transactions? The little paper of yours can turn our lives upside down.”

Thanks for sharing this with us. Lovely.

@ vck: These concluding lines from your comment above (#47) need to be repeated and emphasised, again and again…

Conversions do not give solutions. Conversions only lead to heartburns. People live a way of life they like.

Leave the people alone. Let them live their lives.

Nobody reqiures salvation. If they need it they will find it.

Live and let live. Leave one to his own belief. If they are condemned to go to anywhere let them be. Leave them alone.

Then we do not need a new political party.

We need acceptance of everyway of life. No only one way of life.

Superb.

Dear Patriot

If what you say is true then there is case to reconsider such a constitutional guarantee. Any activity that cannot be reasonably addressed in the spirit of secular democracy – to which every religion in India must subordinate – must be curtailed in the interests of secularism and democracy.

Your democratic right is to practise your religion within the golden rule of ‘do unto others as you would have them do unto you’ – which means we cannot have a situation where money and organisation (funded in proselytizers’ cases by foreign organistions) engages in a ‘battle for souls’ which can easily spill over into violence – Unless you feel that teh Hindus should also pour money and organisation into the conversion and re-conversion game which is cutting through India’s social fabric.

There is a fundamental disease that needs to be identified and treated – and unchecked politicking of a religious kind clearly gnaws at our secular democracy’s roots

Christianity is just a front for neo colonialism. Look around you.
Communism is a way of cleaning house before introducing christianity

Hi Patriot,
Thanks for your views. I have one important point which I want you to re-consider
You say if a man is starving and is given food (or a job) with strings attached that he converts there is nothing inherently wrong. While the poor man who sells his ‘soul’ or vote for economic gain is not to be judged or blamed this is hardly a moral or ethical act on part of the one offering help with strings attached. To justify this as good since the poor man’s co-religionists have not been quicker of the mark in offering this inducement to stay or convert is hardly much of an argument when this is the State’s duty to offer employment and uplift out of economic backwardness. We cannot and must not view the problem of economic or social backwardness from Hindu vs. Christian vs. Muslim perspective. Such divisiveness that leads to conflict and competitiveness is hardly conducive to any form of social and community-and-community harmony.

Secularism as in separation of religion and state (as you rightly point out the example of France) is ONLY way to protect a secular democracy. In fact that’s what secularism has always meant till vested vote-bank politics re-interpreted Nehru’s ‘equal respect’ definition. To my mind religions are by design divisive. Sanatana Dharma historically wasn’t really so only because it practised an inclusiveness of all religions in India which it saw as the starting point for sublimation and transcendence into the spiritual. Spirituality is by definition non-divisive seeking the One which cannot be named or labeled – its beyond the mind in any case! One only needs to check out spiritual traditions from virtually any source to realize this! But once organization and political ambition make an entry the transcendent spiritual is short-circuited. Well-meaning supporters of VHP, BD would do well not let Sanatana Dharma go the way other religions and remain what it was prior to the 20th Century.

As to what ‘Hindus’ have not done or done regarding their caste system a little introspection/investigation will show it is not so much a Hindu problem as an Indian problem – of racism – and its something which is being addressed by the Constitution and by increasing use of reason and mental maturity. Converting to other systems – as a counterpoint I could call them medieval religions – is simply not a mature solution. Casteism or racism needs to be grown out of through education, scientific temper and maturity – I don’t really see any role for divisive exclusivist religions in this honestly.

Patriot/TatiChawla…Thanks for a good, engaging debate…

I would just like to add that finding evidence that can stand in a court of law will be extremely difficult if not impossible in most of these cases of inducement (since the inducements are often of the “soft” kind – free education, free medical care, a “soft” loan etc)

But you are right..the government can only do so much and if Hindus are really so concerned, they should all make strenuous efforts to ensure development of these regions and the upliftment of these people… (and provide evidence of illegal conversions where they can)

I should gently remind everyone that Swami Laxmanananda was doing exactly what I have mentioned above – i.e. devoting his life to the betterment of tribals in Kandhamal..and there is at least one other organisation that is doing excellent work in this area: Ekal Vidyalaya.
http://www.ekalindia.org/ekal_new/index.php

***

All: Pl. do follow the thread above…I feel Patriot and Tatichawla have made a lot of very good points here which should be considered in this debate…

Kandhamal students’ body demands to stop conversion in the district

October 13, 2008
OdishaToday

Some excerpts.
Berhampur (Orissa) : The Kandhamal Chatra Sangharsa Samiti on Sunday demanded to stop religious conversion allegedly being done by various NGOs in the district.

The students have stated that Swami Laxmanananda had served in the Kandhamal district for nearly 45 years and had brought several changes, particularly in the field of education and in social change.

On the other hand, the missionaries were instigating the minority community people to convert the innocent tribal people and were torturing them they alleged.

They further alleged that these missionaries were taking away the lands of the tribal people and were building the churches in those occupied lands.

more here.

Most Oriya newspapers have reported that Congress Rajya Sabha MP, RK Nayak was involved in the killing of Swami laxmananda in Kandamahal. In fact, he was appointed to Rajya Sabha by Sonia Gandhi’s Congress in 2004 even though IB had an adverse report on him.
====

Cong MP suspected behind VHP leader’s murder

…killing of its leader Swami Lakshamananda Sarwasati was hatched in the presence of Congress Rajya Sabha member R.K. Nayak’—

——
Maoists were hired to kill Laxmanananda: Police
Thu, Oct 16 11:06 PM
Bhubaneswar, Oct 16 (PTI)

In a major breakthrough the Orissa police today claimed that the mastermind behind VHP leader Laxamananda Saraswati’s killing had been identified as a group had hired the Maoists to execute the crime. “Maoists were given money to train certain youths of a particular community to eliminate Saraswati,” Inspector General (IG) of Police, crime branch, Arun Ray told PTI asserting the mastermind of the killings had been identified.

read here and here.

Truth takes it own course. Same happened in the case of Mr. Modi.

Watch the barbaric killing of Swamiji and His deciples.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXHW5ncmg5k

Brutally killing someone, who’s about 80 years old and doing social-educational services for over 50 years to the poor people. Time has come to remove these missionary poisons out of our country. Enough is enough.

Such brutal crime done to a Hindu Dharmacharya, that too on Sri Krishna Janmashtami day, cannot be tolerated at any cost. There are no repents for such barbaric acts, but these barbarians are aggressively propagating lies and frauds on the Hindus and India.

Bharat thanks for your comment.

Imagine if this would have done to any christian saint on christmas. What would have been the reaction of our govt and people. They would have tear that person or org involved. But here it is hindu saint so nobody has interest init. Everyone is just interested on attack on churches without condemning or asking serious kind of investigation on swani’s killing. Even if police says culprits are arrested and confessed. They will have reason, that may be police is also involved or forced confession. Too much! Hindus have been always kind to all reigion and this are the results of being very nice and accomodated. Thank you christians and thank you Muslims for showering so much love on us! God is there he wiil look at my country and take care of my country . Dont worry my brothers!. Satyameva-jayate!

Jai Hind!

Aren’t we Hindus hypocrites too?

When we Hindus practice slavery in caste system, it is simply “division of labour” and Manu is just a great “social architect”. When Hindus kill others it is “patriotism”, defending the culture blah blah…

Moreover, can someone help me understand Why does our king of gods send cute girls to sadhoos to break their meditation?

Does a god do things that are against moral behavior that too to a person who is meditating? There are many such questions that bother me about Hinduism. Let’s not have a holier than thou attitude.

Dear Shantanu,
The old good game is back. There is nothing to take on “Hindus” with. let us berate them with “Non existent, misunderstood” stick of the “Caste”.
Please do not waste your time and the precious place on this blog to repeatedly talking about a dead horse.
If people have some amount of “Horsesense” I am sure they should have understood by now what the Caste system was all about, and how useful it has been for the “Peaceful religion”!!
If people really want to know about the true “Sanatana Dharma”, they should first get rid of their backgrund of being taught by people of the “Peaceful religion”!!
and then after cleansing of their mind if they apply their thought process they will understand the truth of what you want to say about “Sanatana Dharma”.
I was taught by the people of the “Peaceful religion”!! and then I went to cleanse my mind of the cobwebs and today I know what my way of life is worth.
It does not depend on the media or otherwise. Think for yourself as this “Dharma” says and you will understand it.
Any amount of shadows will not make substance!!
All these berators know is “Bajrang dal” “RSS” and now “Modi”. Do they really know anything of thse organisations other than what is spouted by the “Nehruvians”, the Stephenians” and the “St. colleges and schools?
Regards,
vck

How Christian is it for Indians to kill Indians?

…irrefutable evidence of the manner in which the USA based Joshua Project 2000 and Beyond, co-ordinates global Christian missionary activity, which has been designed specifically for targeting 600,000 villages of rural India.

…UK based World Vision, Christian Solidarity Worldwide, CARE International, Christian Aid and it’s subsidiary, Dalit Solidarity Network, along with German based Konrad Adenauer Foundation and US based World Evangelical Alliance as some of the largest organisations that support this activity.

…The scale of conversions taking place in India today, through the operations and activities of a globally co-ordinated network of Christian Church groups, supported and funded by external political and religious institutions can have enormous social consequences for India in the future.

http://www.theindianstar.com/index.php?udn=2008-10-03&uan=7824

These are the tactics used by the christian missionaries to harvest new converts. I was told by a Tamil friend, missioanries chooses the devout and God fearing Hindus and by one means or other take them to chruch or their house. And then wash their brains with deceitful sweet and loving words. In the beginning, they told them you can worship your Gods and when you feel you can leave them. Then slowly poisoned them and create hatred agaist their own faith.

These neo-converts then use for further conversions. Missionaries take them to show to the others, how these good Hindus get converted. Some gullible Hindus falls into traps and too get converted.

These converted christians already sold-out their souls, what value their words carry? Zero. They are neo-soul harvestors, infact they are the aggressive soul harvewsting businessmen.

Westerners laugh at such people. Neo-converts thinks, they will treated like special people by the white westerners. But westerners, who are leaving christianity themselves, simply pitty these people. They know, their forfathers too converted by such tactics.

The fact is that christianity dying in the west, churches has becmome empty buildings. Only thing these buildings does, sounds its bell every hour reminding their existence. More and more westerners following Krishna Consciouness, Vedanta, Yoga, Amma, Buddhism etc.

Dear Sir,
I reiterate that I was brought up by Christians. I still believe that the only “TRue Christian” died on the cross. I have no qualms about the greatness of the thoughts of Jesus.
One of the greatest sermons is the sermon on the mount, and Jesus says, “The Kingdom of God is WITHIN YOU”!!
Jesus went into the temple and threw out the persons who were dealing with money.
What else is Sanatana Dharma? It states that “Brahman” is you and you are GOD himself. Temples were never places were people paid for getting anything as like today. It was a place for human calmness.
God is not to be made so cheap as to let him cure “scabies” and fund “get rich stories”.
Let us not make GOD a cheap magician or box or an Alladin’s Lamp/trinket where he is to satisfy simple human wants. He is there for greater things in life.
Today we have a vaccine that has been discovered to get rid of Polio.If we treat the vaccine as God then we can also treat a coke bottle which quenches thirst as God.
Then can we treat the scientist who discovwered it as God? How cheap can we make God, and especially the person who is supposed to be the son of God!
It is this cheap trickery indulged in by some of the memebers of the “Peaceful religon” that we have this problem.
We make Saints of people who who have cured “supposed to be lame people”. Then my GOD is Louis Pasteur who discovered pencillin which was given to m y father when he was seriously ill! and he lived after being administered it.
Let not the neo converts make “The Son of GOD” a cheap magician. He is greater than that.
He taught the people what the Sanatana Dharma teaches, which is be with yourself.
What levels one can one stoop down to market a product and then call him “GOD”.
Shame on us.
Regards,
vck

*** COMMENT COMBINED ***

Dear Bharat,

What has Christianity to do with West?

It went to West (Europe & US) much after India. In fact Indians became Christians much before whites became Christian.

FYI, Christianity is an Eastern religion, not Western. It started and spread from Israel. So actually Christianity’s complete roots and teachings are from Asia, not West.

It would be helpful if you can refresh some History.

***

Dear Indian,

I am only pasting from OUTLOOK magazine, so I do not even know these people personally. I am pasting the link below for you to check yourself.

http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20081027&fname=Conversions+%28F%29&sid=5

I doubt if these people have any Christian names. BTW, what do you mean by Christian names? Are you meaning Western names? Most Christians prefer keeping their original ethnic names because Christianity is a RELATIONSHIP, not a religion.

So the Christians in Israel have Israeli names, the ones in middle east have Arabic names, in Africa they have African names. So Christian names are in Korean, Japanese, Malaysian, Chinese, English, Indian…

Its true earlier many in India after accepting Christianity wanted English names, however, even most English names are not Christian names. The roots of many of the so called English Christian names are in Greek and Hebrew, and not in English itself.

@ Indian

BTW, can all Hindus read and understand Sanskrit? Are you then saying that such Hindus are not true Hindus?

To be a Christian one need not have to necessarily read and understand the Bible. Its a relationship with the person of Jesus.

Reading and understanding the Bible will surely help in one’s growth in Christian principles and teachings, but faith starts in the heart not in the book.

Another word for christianity is fraudism. Its not I say, but by the western intellectuals, western academics, western leaders, now western masses.

During the last 2000 years, it destroyed culture after culture, society after society, way of life after way of life, all across the world. Market brand is word Jesus and accompaned deceiving words of love, saviour, compassion, relationship, peace. Hundreds of millions of people butchered in the name of religion and its domination. Church-Hitler collaboration to annihilate Jews and Roma (gypsies, of Indian origin) are well-documented. About 10 million Jews and two million Romas were annihilated in Germany only. Romas were persecuted all across Europe, even after converting them into christianity. Even today, they are persecuted in Europe, Italy being the notorious country.

A masculine aggressive cult, masculine Gods (only Father God, Son God; no place for Mother God, Daughter God), only Fathers in churches, no Mothers, controlled the society from Churches as centralised Nazi-fascist-communist dictatorship. They supported and used all forms of violent means for soul harvests, and made harvests loyal to the church dictatorship. Result, womens were the first to shun this masculine-cult, masculine Gods. Today, small number of western womens practice Masculine cult-Gods christianity, and churches need to import nuns from Asian neo-converts (Korean, Filipinos, Keralites…).

Neo-converts are the front soldiers, as white British used brown Indians as front soldiers in war/battles. Why shall a white man loose his precious life, let these brown inferior species die like insects. Brown neo-converts are traped in a dilema, western white masters (those who lured them)don’t treat as equal chrisitians but sub-ordinates, nor they can go back to previous faith out of embarrasments. Consequence, they are frustated and aggressive people that results in violence in different areas.

So, return back to your roots, feel proud of that root, as that is your own. Any form of injustice, discriminations, fight it out. Your future lies with Bharat and its culture, its way of life.

http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/106593-missionaries_colonialists-0

Read this. Not Hindus, all over the world missionaries are recognised as proselytizetion who uses medical, education and employment opportunities to convert the people.

Now some of who makes very genuine efforts to make us feel eveything is fine, get some air.

Jai Hind!

@ Bharat & Indian,

I fail to understand what is ticking off you guys. I never found logical explanations offensive. A good explanation should not tick off a learned rational Hindu. I am able to take all arguments and even accept my faults as a Hindu if it is pointed out to me very rationally.

I notice you guys always respond very aggressively and hostile to even rational explanations? why is it so? Is it because you are not able to counter respond logically and rationally. i have observed you always (most of the time) go on a tangent and write some thing new which does not even relate to the ongoing discussion.

If one does not respond rationally, it will only prove to be counter productive to his ideas.

@Harsh:

First learn whats the word logic and rational means. Open a good dictionary page and see what it says.

Logic and rational does not says, if muslims kill hindus, it secular and if Hindu retaliates, its communal. Logic and rational does not say, the value of muslim-chrsitian life is precious, while the value of hindu life is like street dogs. Logic and rational does not say, killing of over 50 Bodo Traibal Hindus in Asom by the illegal Bangladehi Jiahdis are no news and business for Congress-UPA govt, but Karnataka is a big news and headache for Congress-UPA govt, where even not a single person got injured in the violence (except damage of few windows and glass-pens of make-shift churches).

Practice logic and rational objectively. A crime is a crime, no matter who does it. Its not possible Godhara roasting of 59 Hindus (most are childrens and womens) are no crime, but post-Godhara violence are crimes. Either both are crimes, or none.

@ Bharat,

Are you consumed with hate that you are not able to see, hear or think clearly.

1. WHO EVER JUSTIFIED GODHRA? Did Muslims or the Govt. or the Media ever justify Godhra and any attacks from radical Muslin groups? NEVER. What are you then ranting about?

(BTW, remember Godhra is still sub-judice for anyone to conclusively blame any group).

Remember we Hindus started it all at Babri Masjid. We attacked, and they retaliated. Its not that they attacked and we retaliated.

*** COMMENT MOVED by MODERATOR ***

Please follow this link

Bharat,

Thanks! It only goes on to prove the spirit behind each one of us; Good or Evil.

Trust me, I will NOT miss your no replies.

Invasion through conversion. Those who have eyes please read it.

http://www.organiser.org/dynamic/modules.php?
name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=260&page=15

Jai Hind!

Dear Indian,
Please do not be disheartened. Fire only tempers the iron. The more criticism we recieve, the more we are ridiculed will be basis of our tempering. You must understand that in this blog we are aiming to get at the truth.
Nothing is more difficult than searching for the truth.
Unless we are baited we will not take the efffort to get into behind to find the truth.
With so many persons on this blog articulating their thoughts goes to prove that we are all in it for ascertaining the truth.
Each of us has an opinion. All of us have opinions. The placing the opinions together and sifting thru it will lead us to the truth.
With so many persons giving their thumbs up for fighting the hindu cause goes to show that we are on the path to victory as TRUTH is on our side.
Do not give up hope now. The more provoactive the statements the greater should be our resolve to fight injustice and untruth.
Today the Stephanian, the commie those educated at the ST. schools and colleges are fighting a battle which they never expected.
Let us give it to them and win the game running.
Regards,
vck

Thanks, VCK and Bharat

I am happy to see both of your encouraging comments. Very well said.

Jai Hind!

I think George F. Fegel puts it so eloquently when he writes about the hindus declaring India a homeland for the Hindus where they cannot be targetted by foreign missionaries who have imperialist designs.

Read his article at http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/106593-1/.
Unfortunately for us, Europeans seem to have a better understanding of the dangers of letting missionaries loose in our county.

‘42,000 converted, only two followed law’

KANDHAMAL (Orissa): There has been a 66 percent growth in Christian population in Orissa’s Kandhamal region, which has seen attacks on Christians and churches. Of the 42,353 who adopted Christianity between 1991 and 2001, only two followed law to change religion.

According to data available with the district collectorate, the Christian population in Kandhamal was 117,950 in the 2001 census, up from 75,597 a decade earlier.

“The Christian growth rate in the district is 66 percent as against 18.6 percent for the overall population growth in the district,” District Collector Krishan Kumar told IANS.

Of the over 650,000 people in the troubled district, at least 53 percent are tribals, less than 20 percent Christians. Of the nearly 118,000 Christians, a majority has converted from Dalit families.

more here.
http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/story.aspx?Title=42,000+converted,+only+two+followed+law&artid=OFBmwRuLcl0=&SectionID=mvKkT3vj5ZA=&MainSectionID=mvKkT3vj5ZA=&SectionName=nUFeEOBkuKw=&SEO=Kandhamal,%20Orissa,%20Christian,%20attacks,%20church

…On the other hand, Swami Vidyanand is white and Bhakti Swami Thirtha Krishnapad is an African American but are revered by all Hindus, regardless of race. There is no talk of white swami or African American swami.

My take: ISKCON have brown, white, black, etc Swamijis, and devotees from all color spectrums, race, nationality, languages. And they are nobodys concern, but the devotion and love to Krishna.
========

Christian church is obsessed with race
Published:Oct 26, 2008
The Times

It is a white supremacist mindset that claims “Pope Benedict XVI has created India’s first woman saint”.

Sister Alphonsa of the Immaculate Conception is not “India’s first woman saint” but the first Christian, or more specifically Catholic, woman saint in India. India has many woman saints belonging to the homegrown faiths.

If race consciousness were not so pronounced in the Christian church, especially the Catholic church, she would have been a saint for the entire Catholic world.

After all, the media did not refer to Mohammed Siddique Khan, the mastermind of the London bombings of July 7 2005, as a British terrorist (although he was born in Britain) but as an Islamic terrorist.

Similarly, a Catholic saint, even if born in India, is a Catholic saint, not an Indian saint.

For instance, the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, although he resided in the West for a great number of years, was always described in the media as an Indian Rishi, Yogi, spiritual master, etc.

On the other hand, Swami Vidyanand is white and Bhakti Swami Thirtha Krishnapad is an African American but are revered by all Hindus, regardless of race. There is no talk of white swami or African American swami.

Another noteworthy example of the Christian obsession with race was the picture of former Miss Deaf World, the lovely Candice Morgan, sporting a symbol of Hindu affirmation, the bindi, on her forehead. On April 15 2007, in an interview on the TV1 programme Spirit Sundae, Morgan stated that she was a Christian.

Many Indian Christians have taken to sporting such symbols of Hindu affirmation in the new South Africa in order to repackage their racism as culture, in order to segregate themselves from Christians of other races, especially black Christians.

Some Indian Christians no longer want to be buried in what used to be called “sanctified ground” but choose to enter the Christian heaven via the back door, the Clare Estate Hindu Crematorium, previously regarded as a “demonic” place! These are the clever ways of racism. — REALITY CHECK

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