A dangerous portent
Some of you must have read the news from two days ago regarding a call by some Muslim leaders to form a “Muslim political front“Â Â that would also align “secular forces”. Quite how a religious front can align secular forces is beyond me but I felt a deep sense of unease as I read this piece of news…
In some ways it was reminiscent of the background that eventually led to the formation of the Muslim League just over a century earlier in Dhaka. The mood amongst Muslims at the time was captured in these words by Sir Percival Griffiths:
“…the Muslim belief that their interest must be regarded as completely separate from those of the Hindus, and that no fusion of the two communities was possible…”
I am seriously worried that we may be approaching that point again.
At the conference in Jama Masjid, some speakers went to the extent of saying that there is a “deep rooted conspiracy to eliminate Muslimsâ€.
The fact these sentiments were publicly echoed amongst a large, influential gathering of Muslim leaders does not portend well for Indian democracy and the state of our society. A lot of blame for the present situation can be laid squarely on the doorsteps of the Congress – which has ruled the country for the major part of our independent existence…Poor governance, criminalisation of politics and politicisation of the civil services has added to this volatile mix…
The list of Muslim grievances is long…and it can sometimes become difficult to separate the real from the imaginary…But the solution cannot be a separate party…What we really need are not Imams and criminals masquerading as “voices” of the community but a fresh Muslim leadership that truly cares for the community and the country.
Will this leadership emerge? and will they be able to carve space for themselves in the cesspool of Indian politics? I don’t know…I am not optimistic but I remain hopeful…
What gives me hope? Commentators like Tarique and Blogs like IndianMuslims. Not that I agree with everything they say or write…but it is good to see that a distinct position (from the likes of Shahi Imam) is being formulated and a new view-point is being articulated…As right-thinking (no pun intended) Indians, we must support and encourage this trend.
The day we have clean, honest and genuinely concerned Muslim politicians, our challenges will begin to get more manageable.
Until then, we will all be hostage to shrill voices of alarm and prophecies of doom. Sixty years after independence, the horrors and trauma of what happened post-Partition are still hard to erase…Something like that should not happen again…At least I hope it does not happen again.
I would like to close this post by some exceprts from an article written by Asghar Ali Engineer almost 8 years ago, titled – believe it or not – “Separate Muslim Party Not Needed“. I hope Mr Asghar still holds the same view.
*** Excerpts Begin ***
The newly appointed Shahi Imam of Delhi’s Jama Masjid Syed Ahmad Bukhari has announced recently that he will soon launch a separate Muslim party…to ensure that the “lost rights of the minorities” are regained.
The Shahi Imam told a news paper that “We did not accept Jinnah as our leader…but what have we got in return: only empty slogans and hollow promises”. It is for this reason, he said that we are forced to form our own political party.
It is, to say the least, a dangerous line of argument. Some ambitious political leaders themselves use grievances of minorities as empty slogans to grab political power. …It would not be wrong to maintain – and many Muslim intellectuals do – that it was Abdullah Bukhari and his un-thought of emotional outpourings responsible for strengthening of the Sangh Parivar and to an extent for demolition of Babri Masjid.
These so called elite leaders of minorities have no mass base among the minorities and have no genuine support from them except for occasional emotional upsurge and these leaders try to use the genuine grievances of minorities for their own ends. The whole history since nineteenth century is full of such instances.
The case of Jinnah is also a good example. Jinnah, himself a highly educated shrewd leader made use of poor Muslims’ grievances for either his personal politics or for the elite class of Muslims for whose benefit he ultimately created Pakistan. Pakistan did not solve any problem as far as common Muslims are concerned. They are suffering even more in Pakistan today…Thus it will be seen that politics of separatism on one hand, and, emotional hyperbole, on the other, does not solve any problem and, on the contrary, it aggravates them.
In a pluralist society like India separatism never pays. …There are no Muslim elite left any more in India and poorer and exploited masses are hardly interested in a separate nationhood. Secondly, the Muslims of the subcontinent have already paid a heavy price for partition and they would not opt for any such solution under any circumstances….Even though there can be no such danger, yet a separate Muslim party is not only a no solution but is also highly undesirable.
India is a pluralist country with bewildering diversity. Its strength lies in its pluralism and diversity…Secularism and pluralism being foundational stone of our political philosophy religion-based parties should not be encouraged in any case, be they then Hindutva parties or parties based on any religion. Religion based parties are very negation of our political system. Such parties rather than solving our grievances will only aggravate them. If minorities form religion based parties it will provide justification for majority community to form a religion -based party.
…This is not to say there are no genuine Muslim grievances. There are. However, their solution does not warrant formation of any new party.
Today it will also be a mistake to assume that throughout India Muslims have uniform interests and that they are a homogeneous mass. The Muslim League also made this mistaken assumption before partition. There are intra-religious differences among the Muslims on one hand, and, intra-regional and intra-cultural, on the other hand.
Mr.Ahmed Bukhari, if he is genuine in his intent to resolve Muslims’ problems he should play the role of Sir Syed rather than that of Jinnah. Today Muslims, particularly in the North, are poor and illiterate. There are some schemes available for economic and educational uplift of minorities….What is needed is to create awareness of these schemes among the poorer and illiterate Muslims and also to put pressure on the government through political parties and members of the Parliament to increase budget allocations.
Sincere commitment to secularism and the genuine cause of minorities can achieve much in its own ground through democratic polity.
*** Excerpts End ***
Suggested Reading: What should Muslims do?
Related Post:
Shabana Azmi is right about one thing…
.
Regarding “that would also align “secular forcesâ€.” I think this perfectly fits in the current definition/meaning of ‘secularism’ in India, that is, secular = pro-minority.
Anyway, I don’ think there is any problem with forming new party to take care of Muslim’s interests – there already are many such ‘specialist’ parties catering to different groups (excuse of ‘democracy’). But this has some other implications than mentioned:
1) This (and other such) parties will divide the ‘minority’ votes and may help BJP unless there are pre-poll alliances between such prties.
2) But again, these pre-poll alliances might in-turn force the (majority) ignorant (inclined towards pseudo-secularism) Hindu votes towards BJP and the likes – though this may take one or two election terms.
3) The pro minority parties like SP, RJD, BSP etc and leaders(?) like Arjun Singh, Mullayam, Lalu, Mayawati etc wil indulge into an even fierce race to woo minority…
Indeed this is a very dangerous proposition. However, I fail to understand how this party will align with the ‘secular’ forcesif it takes away their sole vote bank !!
This is indeed very scary, and points to a vicious cycle of hurt, retaliation, inept policing, over-reaction and profiling, hurt, etc.
We need to break this vicious cycle and fast.
I have been thinking about this for the past couple of days and I have come up with a partial solution – we have to ask our political leaders and our political not to deal with muslim religious leaders in the space of politics. After all, that is the essence of secularism
Muslims have to come up with political leaders who are not imams or maulvis – we will only talk to secular muslim leaders on political issues.
This does not mean that we will not talk to the imams/maulvis but only on religious topics.
I would imagine that the large muslim community would welcome this initiative – it would allow them an opportunity to escape from the reactionary clutches of their imams.
Cheers
Hemant, Rohan and Patriot: Thanks for sharing your thoughts…
Unfortunately, most Muslim commentators have been “silent” on this issue…
I just checked IndianMuslims.in and there is – as yet – no comment on this topic.
***
Patriot: Good suggestion about refusing to talk with religoius leaders on “secular” issues.
Would be interested in hearing the opinion of others too.
Respected sir what i believe that in Indian intelligentsia is the cause of many things indians dont want to educate all about the common brotherhood and unity and they are silent on the attacks on churches by extremists, terrorisim in any form will not be entertained,wether hindus or muslims.
@Syed even if you think majority Indians are silent about attack on Churches, it doesn’t mean that they are supporting it. In fact if it was so, there would have been “ethnic cleansing” of minorities in India, but we all know that the minority population is actually increasing in quite good numbers.
Having said that, I think a ‘common man’ would not have time and resources to always come on streets to protest all the wrongs happening around and he would generally rely on Government to do the proper job as per the majority sentiment, which is not at all happening.
In reality, the things are getting worse because the governments are NOT capable of handling any crisis and they are actually busy carrying forward the Britisher’s policy of ‘divide and rule’ Adding fuel to that are media and various NGOs (a.k.a. human right activists). And as you mentioned, “terrorism in any form will not be entertained,whether hindus or muslims.” is very easy to say, but it simply cannot happen with the current political ‘methods’.
i think the whole topic of discussion of ‘a muslim political front’ is useless and a waste of time. and those who take imam bukhari’s words seriously , i feel they are uneducated in life.the indian muslim post partition never demanded anything from the constitution . it quietly accepted everything that was thrust upon him.a few opportunistic muslim elements did try to set up muslim based political front but ended with egg on their face. a common muslim is simply not interested in power politics in this country. he only wants safety from the system and the freedom to follow his faith.muslims vote for congress or secular parties or regional parites more out of security than any hidden agenda. whether u r a common hindu or a common muslim in this large country do u have many choices in this country when it comes to voting ? then why are we at all discussing the voting pattern in the first place. forget muslims, tell me the choices a common hindu has in voting in india ??congress or BJP the main. all other parties rally around these two main parties as allies. so do we have many choices ??
so no point discussing this thread. a muslim political front is just not possible in this country and this topic should end here itself.
shantanu , by posting articles like ‘mughalistan’ u r doing a great damage to ur own mentality and of others and of generations to follow.kabir das if translated in english would go like this ‘when the teacher is blind the pupil see complete darkness, both walk through the darkness and finally fall and sink in a well’……jaka guru be andla,chela khara nirandh, andha andhe theliya, dono koop padanth’
@ Tarique: First of all, I have not “posted” any article like “Mughalistan”. It is a “link” on my blogroll.
Secondly, I am sure you will agree that the vast majority of information on the site is easily verifiable data and facts.
Granted that everyone may not agree with their interpretation but you cannot fault data/facts. Also, some of their statements (particularly in the conclusion) may appear to be inflammatory but other than that, I find it hard to find faults in the analysis.
Is there anything in particular that you believe is wrong (factually speaking) or inaccurate?
If it is the interpretation that you dont agree with, pl. feel free to share your thoughts here.
Remember that my linking or not linking the site will not make the facts (or the site) go away.
And finally, I notice that you have again made this comment here rather than on the related post.
Pl. use the search box to find the appropriate post…It usually works.
Would you have any comments on what happened in Assam? (Not here but on the Assam post please)
P.S. I need not emphasise that links to external sites or blogs (either on blogroll or otherwise) do not constitute endorsement or agreement with their content/views
Are we Hindus any different? Let’s be sincere if we are really wanting to be objective.
Do we have any moral credibility of preaching to others? We call ourselves ‘tolerant’; what crap? Haven’t we started the communal divide in this country in the mid-eighties with Babri Masjid issue, when there was no issue at all?
We put the blame of the misdeeds of Mughal Monarchs on the Muslim community. Remember monarchs act unilaterally and autocratically, even Hindu monarch did it.
However what was done to Babri Masjid in 1991 was NOT done by a Hindu monarch, but by Hindu community, which is even more shameful and worse.
Now we blame the Muslims for retaliating with bomb blasts.
This news today ashame me to be called a Hindu:
The Hindu Jagran Manch, a Hindu group, is suspected to be involved in the Sep 29 bomb blast in the communally sensitive Maharashtra town of Malegaon, sources in the Anti-Terrorist Squad (ATS) said on Thursday.
While ATS officers were not willing to comment on record, sources close to investigation said the motorcycle in which the bomb was kept belonged to a man named Padma Singh, who has taken the name of Sadhvi Purna Chetananand and is working for a spiritual organisation in Indore in Madhya Pradesh.
Padma Singh earlier used to be an activist of the Akhil Bharatiya Vidyarthi Parishad (ABVP), the students’ wing of the Bharatiya Janata party (BJP), and is presently associated with the Hindu Jagran Manch, an outfit of Sanatan Sabha, an obscure organisation based in Panvel near Mumbai.
The Sanatan Sabha was allegedly involved in three low-intensity bomb blasts in Thane, Vashi and Panvel near Mumbai earlier this year and the ATS is all set to file a charge sheet against its key members in the blasts, the sources added.
http://news.in.msn.com/national/article.aspx?cp-documentid=1686155
harsh, the need of the hour is to be sensitive and have empathy in our thoughts. my experience in life taught me no human being on this earth was a bad person. even those who commit evil deeds have a justification for it.nobody in this world lives or dies for the sake of his religion , as we are made to believe today.each individual works on his own ideas and thoughts which he finds convincing. we indians , hindus and muslims , have become addicts to listening to conspiracy theories. we fail to forget all other humans of every faith are humans too who want happiness in life.i m not at all afraid of any SIMI OR HINDU JAGRAN MANCH .my only concern is that my kids don’t become the unsuspecting victims of a hate agenda unleashed in this country in the name of hindu or muslim fundamentalism, rabble rousing nationalism , jingoistic sloganeering.jaihind.
@Harsh:
If you are ashamed to call yourself a hindu for an insignificant news, you don’t need to call. Wow, such great is your bond in Hindu dharma. Whether you are proud or ashamed, thats your choice, not ours. Hindu samaj is better of without apologists and ashamed people. Enough of pseudo-seculars.
Hindu apologists and self-seekers, wants Hindus to bow their heads before butchering Jihadi terrorists, to show their pride and tolerance. You may go and offer your head to behead before Jihadis and be a proud Hindu.
Where you keep hiding when Jiahdis blasts serial bombs across the nation and kill hundreds of thousands of innocent Hindus and mandirs? I suppose, your families has not suffered yet. Wait, if that is your wish, you have chance to cry over dead bodies of your mother, sons etc. Did one muslims ever said, they are ashamed to be muslims after so many bomb blasts?
Why it hurts you so much for a dilapidated structure called mosque (where no muslims used to worship over last 50 years, rather Hindus used to worship Ram Lala)? Why not it hurts you with the word Babri, who invaded India and destroyed the Hindu mandir to built a mosque over it to command his power over Hindus and Hindusthan?
Why white-wash the destruction of hundreds of thousands of Hindu mandirs across the nation by the invading barbaric Islamists? Why it hurts to speak the truth? Does Germans stoped teaching barbaric actions and holocaust of Hitler? No, they teach it in schools and universities to educate the Germans, so that they become aware of his barbric actions. In India, we white-wash to appease our vote-banks.
Read and educate yourself, before writing craps.
HINDU TEMPLES
WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM
http://voiceofdharma.org/books/htemples1/
HINDU TEMPLES
WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM
Volume II
http://voiceofdharma.org/books/htemples2/
Stop preaching your pseudo-secularism, and learn to practice True Secularism. Train to speak truth and not white-wash truth, for personal gain and interrsts.
@Tarique
I never said any thing before. But I applause your thoughts, attitudes and opinion. Salute to you!
@Bharat, all your inputs are fantastic.
@Harsh
First you are a Hindu basher. If someone is so much ashamed of being Hindu than what I can say being a Hindu, (It is a saying in my community); If someone is so much ashamed should bury head in the sand ( not real sand), pillow will work, for few days, find all the answer being there and hope he or she can see the world better way.
Do you have any answer for why World Trade Centre was brought down?
We condemn all kind of attack done by Hindus, muslims, christians or sikh. Feeling better!
Jai Hind
Offstumped articulated my thoughts on the Hindu Jagaran Manch etc very eloquently…
From his blog:
Be that as it may Offstumped takes the opportunity to make it very clear that any “Jagran Manch†that condones or espouses violence for the Hindu cause, is un-Hindu and any attempts to rationalize such violence would be Adharma.
Tarun Vijay said it very eloquently earlier that you cannot defend Dharma with Adharma.
Offstumped will go a step further to say that those who indulge in Adharma are a far greater threat to Hindu Dharma than the proselytizers or the Jihadists, and here is why.
By resorting to Adharma they do nothing to advance Hindu Dharma intellectually. Instead they reduce it to be no better than monotheistic faiths that condone violence against non-believers. They foster victimhood while offering no vision or direction for how the next generation Indian can relate to Dharma and practice the Hindu way of life in the 21st Century.
bharat , in ur emotions and anger at harsh u mentioned babur invading india to destroy hindu temples and spread islam. let me remind u that babur was a mongol invader who invaded india to dethrone the shahs and lodhis who were muslims like him. if he fought a few hindu rajput kings , they were either allies of his muslim enemies .’jihad’ in islam does not mean ‘killing hindus’ . jihad actually means ‘inner struggle’. it is a holy teaching where 99 percent is purely devoted to fighting inner evils like jealousy,anger,hate ,greed, etc. in 1 percent ‘jihad’ gives a right for ‘self defense’ against an extreme enemy.after the bloody partition of india muslim fundamentalists toatally twisted the meaning and teachings of ‘jihad’ in india to create ‘hindu hate ‘ propoganda.there are barely a few mosques in india built by mongol invaders . most of the mughal invasion in india were devoted to fighting other muslim rulers in india and hindu rajputs and kings were mostly allies .getting carried away by a hate propoganda will lead u nowhere in life.
i request my hindu brothers not to fall prey to stupid muslims and used a noble word like ‘jihad’ for setting wrong examples.jihad has a very great meaning and i hate its meaning getting distorted fore rong reasons.for example, i can say i want to wage a ‘jihad’ on my smoking habits.it represents my inner struggle to quit smoking.
Dear Shantanu
Thanks for pointing out this news. However, just like having a Hindu party (e.g. BJP, based on Jan Sangh, which in turn was based on the Hindu Mahasabha) is nothing new in India, having a Muslim party is nothing new.
In 1985 the United Minorities Front (UMF) was formed at lightning speed after Rajiv Gandhi called fresh elections in Assam on 15 August (after the Assam Accord). The UMF was formed in a large maidan about 200 metres from my office building (I was Sub Divisional Magistrate of Hojai at that time) given the perceived failure of Rajiv Gandhi to protect the minorities in Assam.
While the UMF mobilised almost all Muslim votes in Assam and managed to gain a substantial number of seats in the 1985 Assam Assembly, realpolitics soon came into play and the UMF effectively merged with the Congress by 1989.
Similarly, the Kerala Muslim League is a purely Muslim party that has existed as a political force in Kerala since independence. There could be other Muslim parties (as other Hindu parties) in India today which I am not familiar with.
The problem, as you have rightly identified, lies with the non-secular policies of the Congress which have provided an impetus to the emergence of Jan Sangh- BJP type Hindu parties and, to Muslim parties like Kerala Muslim League and the Assam UMF.
In a modern liberal society, religion and politics must remain completely separate. However, no law can be created forbidding the existence of such parties. Instead of worrying about religious parties which have a long history in India, it is important, in my view, for secular parties (if any!) to broaden their appeal to the voter.
That is why fledgling liberal groups like the Freedom Team of India (freedomteam.in) are critical to India’s political development even though they may not, currently, make much of a dent in Indian politics.
Rather than worry about the tens of religious political parties in India (which are legitimate and VERY common), let us worry why there are so few genuine secular parties in India. Why is it that people are so polarised on the basis of religion that they forget that the purpose we wanted independence was to get genuine freedom, not to continue doing the foolish things that (as least some of) our ancestors did.
Regards
Sanjeev
http://freedomteam.in
*** NOTE by MODERATOR ***
Pl. avoid duplicate comments
*** ORIGINAL COMMENT ***
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Tarique,
You may “struggle†to whitewash Jihad as noble, but you’ve gotta try harder.
Jihad is the relentless quest to eliminate all things non-Islamic from the world and within oneself.
It is reasonable to point to jihad as involving both inward struggle (directed against non-Islamic beliefs within oneself) and also an outward struggle (against non-Islamic beliefs in the world).
Inward struggle that must be directed against non-Islamic beliefs (within oneself) includes becoming a Mindless Zombie who dare not question even one verse of the Quran, not doing any “Shirk” (Equating any other False God with Allah) nor Questioning Muhammad’s Pedophilia nor Doubting if Allah was Muhammed’s sock-puppet.
After all, Islam means “Submission”, does it not?
Speak of mental and psychological slavery to some pie-in-the-sky god’s henchman’s voice.
This voice was conveniently heard by a 53-year old hallucinating schizoprenic whenever he wanted to marry a 6-year old girl (playing with dolls), whenever he wanted to marry his daughter-in-law and whenever he wanted to massacre, rape or loot peaceful Kafir caravans.
Excerpts from “If Sardar Patel was a ‘terrorist’, so am I” by Kanchan Gupta (The Pioneer, October 26, 2008)
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…Earlier, Azamgarh would provide the cannon fodder for Mumbai’s vicious and bloody gang-wars with Azamgarhis offering their services as ‘hitmen’ to Dawood Ibrahim and others of his ilk. The argument one would often hear in justification of their carrying out ‘supari’ killings was
two-fold: The lure of Mumbai’s glittering lifestyle and easy money; and, the frustration of unemployed Muslim youth discriminated against in ‘Hindu’ India.
Those who terrorised Mumbai’s rich and famous, ran extortion, betting and hawala rackets, killed defaulters and the defiant in cold blood, and took delivery of contraband ferried to the city’s shoreline from Dubai
in dhows were not to blame for their crimes – they were victims of an elaborate ‘conspiracy’ against Muslims and an ‘uncaring’ system. Any effort to tame the mafia was resolutely met with howls of protest and cries of ‘Muslims are being targeted’.
Few people would remember today that when Mrs Indira Gandhi introduced what was then considered a tough law to fight organised crime and money-laundering under the guise of the Conservation of Foreign Exchange and Prevention of Smuggling Activities Act, popularly known as COFEPOSA,
she was accused of ‘targeting Muslims’ and trampling on ‘civil liberties’ because most of the high profile arrests were those of Muslim gangsters like Haaji Mastaan.
According to an apocryphal story of that time, when the police went to arrest a notorious racketeer in Gujarat’s Jamnagar his henchmen claimed their boss was praying and hence could not be disturbed. When the police insisted on entering the house, a huge crowd gathered to block their way, raising slogans similar to those heard in Jamia Nagar in Delhi after Atif and Sajid, two members of the murderous
Indian Mujahideen, were killed in an encounter on September 19. Later it transpired that the wanted man was busy burning incriminating documents; what could not be destroyed, including wads of high denomination currency notes, was cleverly concealed under the burqas of the women in the house.
…it would be a grave mistake to ignore the statements of the mullahs because embedded in them is the sinister strategy to radicalise India’s Muslims and thus make them a part of the global surge in Islamism; they also indicate a design to reiterate and reaffirm Muslim separatism anchored in bogus grievances and imagined victimhood.
…All this was of a piece with what Syed Ahmed Bukhari, the Shahi Imam of Delhi’s Jama Masjid, had said while commiserating with the jihadis of Azamgarh: “We have lost faith in the administration and the police of the country and are feeling insecure.” What was not mentioned but disingenuously implied is that having lost their faith in the Indian state, India’s Muslims must now look elsewhere.
But it was Taslim Rehmani, the chief mullah of Muslim Political Council, Delhi, who made the most startling declaration at last Monday’s Ajimoshaan Ehtazazi Ijlaas-e-Aam: He described Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel as a “terrorist”. Later, when contacted by this newspaper, he lashed out at Sardar Patel for “forcibly annexing Hyderabad” and reiterated his assertion: “Sardar Patel was responsible for all the riots after Partition, for lakhs of Muslims who were killed in the riots. He deliberately allowed them to be killed. He was a terrorist.”
There are those who would scoff at Rehmani as an inconsequential mullah and urge others to ignore his rant.
This is the usual response to every offensive statement, each hateful allegation, and all despicable calumny that we get to hear from the spokesmen of the community, berating
Hindus, shaming the Indian state, belittling the nation, and denigrating national icons.
…As a nation we must stand up and counter such insidious propaganda that nourishes jihadi Islamism and confront the preachers of hate and peddlers of fiction
…To prevaricate would be to delay the inevitable clash between those who are with India and those who are against the idea of India. The cost then would be enormous.
***
I agree We must stand up!
My only point is, 90% of muslims of India were Hindus. If they go to their roots and ancestors, they will end up finding their brother and sister in Hindu community and Hindus may find their brothers and sister in Muslim community. “Who was Mohammed Ali Jina?” His ancestors were Hindus. Instead of calling sardar Patel this and that…my question is why Jina become so cold blooded toward his community? Is this what Islam teaches, dethroning everyone who is non-muslim.
Sorry if I am offending anyone here but this is the true facts and must be accepted and understand.
*** COMMENT COMBINED ***
rishi khajur , islam does not mean ‘submission ‘ it is derived from ‘islah ‘ which means ‘a process of learning ‘.jihad is an inner struggle from human weaknesses for lust , power , jealousy , anger etc. and not for non muslim beliefs .the violent ‘jihad ‘ is widely circulated by people like u coz it helps in building a propoganda material against muslims .the character assassination of prophet mohammed has been going on for more than 1300 years now .yet all these years the worst critics have helplessly watched islam and muslims grow bigger everyday right under their eyes and nose .islam is the fastest growing religion in america and western europe despite all the pains being taken to paint it in a poor light.
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shantanu , syed ahmed bukhari i have already said has no following among common muslims . i have never heard of taslim rehmani before . but i understand the tone of their rhetoric in playing with the muslim sentiments of ‘insecurity ‘ . the delhi elections are round the corner and more unknown self styled leaders and rantings will appear. after the elections they will not be seen anywhere .
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indian , the problem does not lie with islam . the problem lies in human greed and lust for power and the desire to dominate . these things existed even before islamic religion was born .every major religion of the world goes through a phase or cycle before it settles down . even buddhism had merciless invaders , yet buddhism always preached peace .islam being the youngest of all the major religions of the world , is going through a phase of confrontation .this is mainly because the majority of muslim nations are either in a desert ,a barren hilly region, or nations with dry forestlands . very few muslim nations are blessed with a good geography or with a good agriculture .
indian , the problem does not lie with islam . the problem lies in human greed and lust for power and the desire to dominate . these things existed even before islamic religion was born .every major religion of the world goes through a phase or cycle before it settles down . even buddhism had merciless invaders , yet buddhism always preached peace .islam being the youngest of all the major religions of the world , is going through a phase of confrontation .this is mainly because the majority of muslim nations are either in a desert ,a barren hilly region, or nations with dry forestlands . very few muslim nations are blessed with a good geography or with a good agriculture .
shantanu , syed ahmed bukhari i have already said has no following among common muslims . i have never heard of taslim rehmani before . but i understand the tone of their rhetoric in playing with the muslim sentiments of ‘insecurity ‘ . the delhi elections are round the corner and more unknown self styled leaders and rantings will appear. after the elections they will not be seen anywhere .
One thing I would like to clear is, Islam is not the fastest growing religion in America or anywhere. They are scrutinized where where they go in the world. Sometime westerners are also worry giving jobs and favours to Muslim community! This is fact. They have become the target of racism and discrimination. My question is Why? Because they rarely shows any regards for other religion. Everything other than Islam is Haram and Na-pak for them. Why? Why did they loose ground in Europe and America? Forget this, Tarique, people are afraid of telling to anyone that he / or she is my friend (muslim) because than that person will also come under scanner sooner or later if something happens in the future. Why do they declare fatwa on everything that is non-islamic?
Why did IT’s, Engineers and Doctors are doing all this? We dont believe in Indian police ok, but Twin tower was brought down by one of engineer from Pakistan. Why?
Because in the end non-muslims found that they cannot be trusted. Why did they loose trust of millions? I feel sorry for this state of affairs but nothing one can do about it untill Islam mends it way. I dont say other religion are perfect but islamic defaults comes out on the public places. Why? I now you might also be struggling with this but you cannot boast that it is fastest growing and religion of peace with this state of affairs.
I can give you the startling revelation what Muslim community teaches their children who are under the age of 10 (such a tender age for all this things), that also in America and Europe!!.. I am surprised that revenge, and enimosity starts from school age.
indian , even i grew up all my life in a muslim ghetto , surrounded all my life by muslims , even the christian school i studied had more muslims than anyone . yet i have faced no problems with anybody anywhere in the world on any matter .my hindu , christian , parsi , jew ,jain friends have no problem with me . most of my clients are non muslims .
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islam is the fastest growing religion in america and europe was flashed on CNN and BBC repeatedly in the aftermath of 9/11 . i have not been to these nations yet , but these broadcasters flashed it . i don’t know their real motives for it .and they don’t belong to muslims.
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islam is the fastest growing religion in america – hillary rodman clinton ,los angeles times , may 31 ,1996, page 3 .
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islam is the fastest growing religion in the united states -new york times , feb 21 , page 1
I think Fastest growing in numbers due to their increaing population. Yes each family has atleast 3 to 4 children so may be they have shown that statatics. If my guess is correct.
You said that that you did not faced anything because India in that sense is very secure place.
But you will not agree that in west many accomodation in building has been granted to pakistani on wrong information such as “we are from India” and the building supervisor till end remains under the impression that they are Indian. On work places they hide that they are from Pakistan or Muslims. And says they are from India. This is fact and I have been told by themselves that they dont tell anyone that they are from Pakistan. they take pride in India and says see India has Muslim President but it cannot happen in Pakistan.
Why? I know you even dont have answer for this, but answer lies in islamic writings. It is hard to think about peace at any point of time, if one follows such writings in everyday life.
indian , out of the 57 muslim majority nations why u have to point out only pakistan all the time for bad examples .indonesia has double the population of pakistan yet it takes pride in its hindu past and has retained its hindu culture even today despite embracing islam .the indonesian muslims read the same quran and follow the same prophet as pakistan . yet why this difference ??because the problem lies geopolitically and in political situations in different geography . while pakistan has only karachi as a port for the size of its nation to prosper , and it is mostly surrounded by nations with hostile backgrounds . there is iran , afghanistan , china , and russia at close quarters . barring punjab , most of pakistani land is not fertile .pakistan came into existence after a bloody partition with india . the pakistanis right from partition onwards were very insecure that big size india would swallow them up . so they mostly concentrated in building military efforts and made the huge mistake of arming their civilians mostly in punjab . in their kashmir region they armed the kashmiris against india to avenge the loss of bangladesh .then came the world war where they were forced to arm the north west frontier pashtuns . all this resulted in large arms spending leaving pakistani society violent and devastated . all this had nothing to do with the islamic religion . pakistan is mostly controlled by the armed forces who r the among the few secular institutions of pakistan . it will shock u but the army is mostly secular .most of their children study in the west and madarassa attendence among them is rare and few . if u notice their generals , most of them never have flowing beards or are mostly clean shaven . the point i m trying to make here is that pakistan military evil designs are more aimed at western aids than islamic motivation .a malaysian follows the same koran and same prophet , yet he feels no need to hide his identity . he proudly flaunts his malaysian passport and his muslim identity. the problem lies not in any religion but in the quality of politics practiced in a nation .
indonesia and malaysia and brunei are mostly coastal regions of south east asia . they exist peacefully in the region and mostly settle their disputes through a process of peaceful dialogues .if there were say 60 hindu majority nations in this world , i m a sure u too would have atleast one ‘pakistani type ‘ nation depending on the geography and political climate .
sorry not world war …it is cold war
Hey Tariq,
You are dead wrong in your claims and Rishi Khujur is right…. Islam does mean “Submission”.
Three practising Muslims who have read the Qu’ran clarify what the meaning of the word “Islam” is:
dear tarique,
i really admire your quest to point out that Islam is a religion of peace and harmony and all that is wrong with the religion is the handiwork of a few despots….
i really wish i could agree with you…..but the truth is that Babur’s most formidable enemy was rana sanga who faced him at the head of a rajput confederacy of araound 1,00,000 soldiers…a figure never before seen in the history of rajput warfare…
the mughals may not be the biggest destructors of temples and non muslim life and property in Indian subcontinent, but have you forgotten Allauddin khilji’s destruction of nalanda….of muhahamad ghori and mahmud of ghaznavis conquests in saurashtra and western India….
“Since September 2001, the United States has increased focus on radical Islamist and terrorist groups in Southeast Asia, particularly those in the Philippines,Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, and Singapore. Southeast Asia is a base for past,current, and possibly future terrorist operations.
Al Qaeda penetrated the region byestablishing local cells, training Southeast Asians in its camps in Afghanistan, and
by financing and cooperating with indigenous radical Islamist groups. Indonesia and the southern Philippines have been particularly vulnerable to penetration by
anti-American Islamic terrorist groups.”
– this are the first few paragraphs of a detailed report “CRS Report, Terrorism in Southeast Asia” dated sepetember 11, 2007 ( how ironic !!!)prepared for the memeber of the US Congress and tabled accordingly. The report is 36 pages long and the hyperlink is http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/terror/RL34194.pdf.
kindly peruse the report at leisure andf then continue with your naive theories that proclaim ” indonesia, malaysia ….peacefully coexist with their neighbours….
ever wondered why Australia is so vehement against islamic terrorism?????
and for God’s sake dont respond by saying that a report tabled in the US Congress is false, made up or farcial…
BTW there are 179,000 results when you Google “Islamic terrorism in Southeast Asia”
as regards to the meaning of the word islam:
“If you refer to Arabic language dictionaries you will find out that the meaning of the word Islam is: submission, humbling oneself, and obeying commands and heeding prohibitions without objection, sincerely worshipping Allaah alone, believing what He tells us and having faith in Him. The word Islam has become the name of the religion which was brought by Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).”
Source – From Kitaab al-Islam Usooluhu wa Mabaadi’uhu by Dr. Muhammad ibn ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Saalih al-Suhaym.
refered from – http://www.islamonline.com/news/newsfull.php?newid=4685
i deliberately tried to get the meaning from an islamic website…so much for “islah” – a process of learning….
would you care to explain?? Mr Tarique….
Below, a few selected comments from IndianMuslims.in post on “Iqbal, Jinnah And The Lost Glory Of The Muslims Of India” re. Muslims in India:
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Comment from Girish:
Wasim: – You start out well, and I totally agree with you when you say that we (Muslims) should not detach from the majority. But you then go back to saying that Muslims need to have NGOs dedicated to Muslims. Isn’t that discrmination that would unneccessarily cause tension?
Modern India provides opportunities for one and all. The 70s and 80s are over where the protogonist walks and walks for a job, but finds none. Even in this recession there are jobs for the qualified.
The reason for the abmysal condition of Muslims in India (I will not buy the argument of discrimination here as Pakistani and Bangladeshi Majority is no better off. A few people have money while the rest of the country is in poor condition) their inability to accept western education which majority feel would result in “unislamic” children. I agree in a way with it, because I see that in my community. May be therefore the children have to work harder (learn through 2 modes). But the fact remains that this imperative.
I further believe that a large number (esp those in southern cities) have recognised this and I see more number of Muslims in colleges and schools. The situation in a few years would definitely change.
Kalim:- Really good article, very balanced.
I am sorry if I hurt anyone’s sentiments.
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Comment from Asif:
And where did you write about Azad in this article? I did go through the article superficially so I may be wrong in my analysis here.
You know guys. The problem are the Indian Muslims and not Pakistanis. Yesterday only I said that the fight is between Islamists and real Pakistan even in Pakistan. And the real push for this is coming from Nadwa and all those crap institutions in UP.
Why can’t you live in present? Why to keep sulking over past glory of Ummah, Past glory pre british and past glory here and there? You are so much wanting to go in past that you ignore the present and future. That is why I agree that India Pakistan should not have soft borders. All these old maulanas whose legs are hanging in Kabr come over and our maulanas and all of them keep brooding and sulking. Morons!
The problem is you guys. You guys dont want to accept that India and Pakistan are 2 seperate countries and you are Indians. This might be stinging but its not Pakistanis who want to reunite or Islamise the entire subcontinent. Its every second of you guy who keeps coming in and crying at our shoulders. Leave us guys. We are fighting our own battle.
And coming back to the article. It was Iqbal who fundamentalised Jinnah. In short what we see today in Pakistan in some forms is between Iqbal and Jinnah. One one hand a state wanting to move ahead based on democracy, open ness and equality based on Jinnah’s vision and on the other hand we have people who keep sulking over the past and wanting to become and behave like Arabs. I am thankful that Pakistan did got created otherwise there would have been mayhem always in subcontinent. And for Allah’s sake stop brooding over all these lost glories. They were lost because they never were real. And what is the issue if Spain is back to christians or India back to Hindus? Islam was also a religion only based in Mecca and Medina. Which country apart from them can claim not to be occupied? Only Malaysia and south east belt. And Islam in indonesia is quite colourful than Islam in Afghanistan.
The only point I can agree is yes Muslims in sub continent are quite different from ones in Middle east. But they are more likely to identify against India if given a chance. You can ask Bangladeshis, Pakistanis or even Kashmiris in your own part of India.
The only solution to all the ills plaguing Muslims is they need to be brought out of the past or probably kicked out of it.
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Comment from Wasim:
As Salamu Aleikum(peace be upon you all)…….
Dear Brother Asif…..
I totally agree with you, that we should leave our past behind….. But which past u are talking about per independence, my dear many of our Muslims Brothers and Sisters don’t even know who were the Muslims which fought for the freedom of our mother land ( khan Abdul gaffar khan, Sir Syed Ahmad Khan and go to Tihar Jail you will still find blood instead of cement). Muslims don’t even know that all this, because of these brave Maulanas and Ulemas that you, me and whole of the Indian Muslims are at least have a country where we can stay and follow our religion as we wanna follow, look at Pakistan and Bangladesh they are in a pathetic situation both Islamic and Economic wise……
Your below statement mean they should go to hell, i wanna ask who will lead Islam in India then, who the people like you and me, one of the most illiterate people about Islam.
Recently more then 6000 Ulems gather in the city of Hyderabad and gave a very resounding Fatwa agianst terrorism, I know it just a small step but a very good start……
Please brother tell me Bro who will lead us…..lets keep the writer a side and what’s he is all talking about…
What you said that all the Indian Muslims are pro Pakistani, even you are one of the Indian Muslims then. I will not Ignore or reject that they are some because I’m from Pune and have brought up in the Muslims Schools and Colleges, so i know that there are some Muslim youth and even our own elders at our home who are pro Pakistani, but have you ever try to know why they are so, have you ever try to understand the Muslims in India and whats there problem, what they need, whats there demand,have you ever asked those families what they feel when there son, father and husband have been picked up for terrorist activities and later when there are set free by the court of law without any charges proved against them,did i or u ever asked whats there problem, but i at least do understand them because I’m one of those Muslims who thinks and believe in the hadit of Prophet Mohammad(Peace be upon him)which sayâ€Service and love to the Nation is part of your Faith†and it also farther saysâ€The one who don’t love his country is not one of usâ€â€¦â€¦.
Please bro try to understand them if you wanna know the latest story and state of the Muslims in Hyderabad, then u must be aware of the attack on Mecca Majhid in 2006, after that 150 Muslim youths were picked up and now last month they were let free of no charges against them (see Indian Express) because now the police thinks the malegoan terror suspects are the people behind those attack on Mecca Majhid and 15 out of 150 of them was bitten and torched, there beard hair was remove from root by the hands of police, they were kicked on there groins and so on. One of them was a Unani Doctor, other the MBA Student, one a small time salesman and in compensation Rs.80000 to buy Autoriskshaws and drive them, tell me u want the Doctor who can save many lives, the MBA student who can be the a major part of our growing economy to be a Auto driver. You know that there neighbors, relatives and friends don’t even wanna talk to them, think about there state in the society and think if u or anyone of ur family member was one of them….I Hope Allah Doesn’t show as any such situation to any of us. Ameen……
I know there are black sheep’s in every community and we should not paint every one with the same brush…….and there are some involvement of Muslim Youths in India in some Activity of Terror…
Yeah it’s of no use to talk about the Iqbal or Jinnah not because they are of no use but because they are little irrelevant and there are many clouds over them, so lets not go over their, we should not forget the sacrifice of lives of our Ulemas and maluanas and other Muslims for our mother land India…..
After Prophet Jesus(peace be upon him) for 600 years there were no Prophet’s or not even any book sent on earth by Allah. The crime spread all over the world that was the darkest time in the history….. the Arabs were the most brutal and peace less people on Earth, they use to bruied there infant baby girls, Alcohol was a life style, prostitution was common and so on….. Then came our beloved Prophet and the last Messenger of Allah Mohammad(peace be upon him) with the teaching of Allah in the form of The Holy Quran and the Sahi Hadit, Our Prophet was an Arab and u think being an Arab will be dangerous for our society.
After the dead of Prophet Mohammad(peace be upon him), there was an election between the Four companions of Prophet Mohammad(peace be upon him) to run the system, Hashrat Omar, Abu Barak, Ali and Osman (peace be upon them All), that was the first time the world taste the juice of democracy, there’s no Religion like Islam in the world that is so open and equal to both men and women. The maximum number of people coming to Islam are the women, where as the whole world tells that Islam does not give writes to Women……. what a joke……. I agree with you that in Saudi Arabia there is Kingdom, but for last many years they are holding municipal elections and from last 4 years even women for participating in the Elections and lets Pray to Allah that they will be democracy over there.Ameen….. but i wanna tell you the biggest problems in our country is the least in the Arab countries especially in Saudi Arabia i.e Rapes, murders, corruption and even terrorist activities are very less……
One more of your statement below……
I don’t wanna laugh on your statement but i pity on you for your misunderstanding about Islam even when u yourself a Muslim speak anything like what u have spoken about…..
When did Islam come on earth? 1400 years ago or when the Prophet Mohammad(peace be upon him) came on earth, tell me when, both the answers are wrong, Islam is there even before the universe, the earth, the moon, the sun was formed. Islam means Peace.
Allah(swt) tell in holy Quran “Islam is the only religion close to Allah”……
So whats wrong if the Spain is back to Christains, you know that the Biggest Mahjid with more then 100’s of doors in the world is in Spain, but now there’s no one to pray Allah(swt) over there at the home of Allah(swt)…. Muslims rule over there for more then 800 years and now there are no Muslims in Spain, try to find what happened to Muslims over there, it’s worth finding and its our past which will help as in our present and further……
India was never a Muslim country or an Islamic State, the Mughals where just the rulers and not the people who wanted to spread Islam on the edge of sword, if they wanted to do so they had all the power, money and the biggest Army in the world, but Islam is not spread on the edge of the sword or by the money power and if that’s true then why still in India there are more then 80% of Hindu’s or non-Muslims and 14 Millions of Coptic Christians and Jews in the Middle East, they have there temples and church from the time of Prophet Jesus(peace be upon them)…..one more thing the Allah(swt) tell in the holy Quran that” there is no compulsion in Islam”, if u like it u accept it nor ignore it…..
You find Islam more colorful in Indonesia then in Afghanistan, if it is true then why always there is much of natural calamities over there like Tsunami, Earthquakes and so on and if the Islam in Afghanistan is dark then look at the people of that country they have been straggling for more then 40 years now, first the Brits, then the USSR, the Taliban’s and now the US Invaders over there…. If u where there whats u have done, tell me bro……
Allah(swt) says in the holy Quran ” Islam is the Religion for Whole of mankind” and ” We Muslims are the best people evolved for mankind” and “If we are not able to the duty then He will replace us by another people which will be better then us”
Ask the real Indian Muslim are they different for the people of middle east then the answer will be yes, but why? Allah(swt) has divided as into regions because we can recognized each other and then ask him if his Islam different for the Islam in middle east then the answer will be no because Islam is same for black, white, rich, poor, small, big, for Australasia, Americans, Africans, Europeans and even for Asians……
Islam don’t ask u “who you are?”,”who’s your parents?”,”where are u from?”
Because it’s ISLAM, it’s only demand is to “believe in Allah(swt)”, “to say that the Prophet Mohammad(peace be upon them) was the Last and the final messenger of Allah(swt), ” no froce” , “no money” and “no compulsion”
Bro Pakistan, Bangladesh, Kashmir and even the present problem in India and world is Political problem instead of religions……
And what about the solutions for these problems are given by me as per my little understanding in my comment early on the same topic of Iqbal and Jinnah…… hope u understand and give ur suggestions….
As far as Mr. Iqbal is concern, he was a gem of a person and he said which i think it should be our National Song “Majab Nahi Sekatha Aapas Mein Bire Karna Hindi Hai Hum Vatan Hai Hindustan Hamaraâ€
May Allah(swt) Give the whole of the Ummah including me and you the understanding of Islam. Ameen….
May Allah (swt) shower His Choicest Blessings on the entire Muslim Ummah and help us in our mission of bearing witness to the truth of Islam before all mankind. Aameen
Jai HInd
Allah Hafiz…..
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Comment from Asif:
Shantanu…I hope you take this one also in the right spirit.
The people who run after Akhand Bharat are also equally big morons. The ones who destroyed India are the ones who want to restore its old glory. I see Hinduism discard its Itjehadi(Experimental and Novel) approach long back. The creeping of casteism and social evils was the death knell of Hinduism. Yet the Hindus kept moving away from real knowledge more towards moral degradation and corruption. Buddha at one time remarked seeing Brahmins always angry and using scriptures to their merry that first of all violence inside needs to be removed. Thats why the main theme of Buddhism is Non Violence. The last approach to reform Hinduism was perhaps Arya Samaj or Raja Ram Mohan or Aurobindo but now there is no Hindu reformer just like no Muslim reformer. All that are there are God men which are cheating people. And some politicians who are brooding and sulking over the past glory and angry over Muslim Invasions. The ones that sulk over lost glory of Hindusim are not less than those Maulanas. At the time of invasion of Islam there was nothing called Hinduism. It was just some moral degraded rulers who lost. The ones in Rajasthan that did not lose are true examples of sincerity. I am myself a Rajput whose forefathers have defended Punjab and Khyber till centuries. We fought alongside Ghazni(The Name Hated in India) and we were Hindus then. We became Muslims under Aurangzeb and fought agains Pathans. And we will not have hesitation to defend Pakistan till the last Rajput if India attacks us. Ghori was a Hindu and Ghazni was a poet. In his personal life he himself have asked people to write many books on Hind. He was the one who broke away from the Arabic world. Like the Dehlvis and Muradabadis he was a Ghaznavi from Ghazni. If I study his character he did not hate India. But he was also a tyrant no doubt. Many hindus must have been killed because no invasion is sweet and many must have been treated like evil pagans who needed to be beheaded. The history of Somnath might have been his way of hitting out at the false ego of Brahmins derided of true knowledge allthough he had no right to do so because he was also equally derided of knowledge. But remember if there was any true knowledge he would have stopped just like angulimaal stood in front of Buddha or Babar stood in front of Nanak. Somewhere Hindus in India must accept responsibility for creation of Pakistan because of this old glory syndrome.
Similarly The real Islam of Prophet Mohammed(PBUH) seems now lost. All that remains now is some Wise Men, Maulanas or Naiks misusing scriptures just like the Hindu Godmen. I do not like people from UP coming over and continue brooding over lost glory and how they have become lost tribes. They are not lost. India has provided them more opportunities than they could have got in Pakistan. All of the writers in this blog seem to be US based or outside India and are prosperous.The ones that are blowing asses in India are also educated and well of Muslims. Irony is that why some of these Muslims and not the ones on ground. None of them given a chance will go and live in afghanistan where every second afghan wants to immigrate out. The Maulanas of UP are responsible for Afghanistan and all they want is restore the old glory. Look what their old glory has done. Everything old comes to an end and so did that glory and it must have been for good. India and Pakistan can become great countries if the morons running after old glory in these countries can find something new. And yes if the Kashmir issue can get resolved. Kashmiris need to show flexibility and so do Indians. War Mongering will destroy our futures. Probably Indian Army has lost faith of people of kashmir. What has happened in Mumbai is wrong without doubt. India needs to take a huminatarian approach for benefit of the subcontinent and so that noone can point a finger at them.
Banu, I know what you mean. Allthough not well intended. But my dear brother its something which we all need to understand.
Allah knows what my intentions are. And my intention is to bring out Muslims from the world of seething anger, revenge and hatred and this old glory syndrome. If there is anything else then Allah knows best and as you said he will surely judge me.
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Comment from Asif (in response to Wasim):
Brother Wasim(Walaikum Assalam- And Peace Be Upon you).
First of all hugs to you. My intention is not to hurt but to wake up people from sleep.
First of all when I see some of the things that have happened to Muslims in last 20 years in the world in general and now in India I do feel sorry but not angry. I am sorry because humanity in general is going down the drain. I used to quote India many times in secular discussions over here but the oft repeated Babri and Gujarat does seem to have lost India’s direction somewhere. They were wrong. With war clouds on sky I do want good intention to prevail between India and Pakistan and will reply surely again but for now I will say this.
Those who spend (freely), whether in prosperity, or in adversity; who restrain anger, and pardon (all) men; for Allah loves those who do good. (3:134)”
Revenge is a weakness. Revenge never ends any war. It increases turmoil. After 9/11 what happened in Afghanistan and Iraq was more pain. After this happening in Mumbai Indian nationalists will harden down further on Kashmir and India Pakistan relations will go for a toss. Personally for me I do not see myself different to Indian Muslims. Infact not from any Muslim, Indian, Hindu or any living human. I do welcome what Zadari was doing allthough he was not my favourite politician.
I do believe that democracy and equality of all people is Quranic, Islamic and Itjehad. This statement says a lot.
“We have made you into nations and tribes so that you may know one another.â€
I believe Muslims in a minority can be as nationalists as they will be in majority. And the example of the Islamists in Pakistan who every other day blow more Muslims here than anywhere else points to that. As for Comparison between Indonesia and Afghanistan people in Indonesia are still living cordially inspite of the natural disasters and people in afghanistan have converted into a living hell inspite of the Uranium and natural resources available there.
I like discussions and specially when they relate to Islam and Quran. I would have loved to talk more here. Time is short with me. I want good intentions now between India and Pakistan but will return. War needs to be avoided and I am sure we will avoid that.
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shantanu ,thanks a lot for introducing us to asif . i m sure he will be a great asset to this blog ,if he can contribute regularly .indian muslims need more like him ,he is better than the fat boring preaching mullahs of nadva ,bareilly and deoband .he is very well verse n indian matters and we all look forward to a healthy discussion through him .a bright addition indeed to this blog.
Tarique,
Bring it on. Call Asif (and his entire mohalla) if you have to. You definitely need help perpetuating your fantasy-tales and defending your bankrupt ideology.
Sure sure, Asif is very well-versed in Indian matters.
(1) Asif writes that Mohammed Ghori was a Hindu. (Clap! Clap !)
(2) Asif tries to wash away the blood of the 50,000 Hindu devotees who were beheaded by Mahmud Ghaznavi at the sacred Somnath temple by blaming the victims’ lack of true knowledge i.e. Islam .(Loud applause !)
(3) Asif goes on to say that his ancestors were Hindu Rajputs who converted out of fear or favour and switched over to the side of the aggressors. (No caste oppression bogey here, huh?)
(4) As a Pakistani, Asif is ready to fight India to the last man. (Surprise)
No wonder you think you can have a healthy discussion with me. Both of you have similar goals and aims.
If you or Asif have the guts, why don’t you take the Ali Sina Challenge and prove me wrong:
http://www.faithfreedom.org/challenge.htm
I will wait for your response to my challenge.
Very interesting and worth Reading!
Every dark cloud has a silver Lining.
I also liked, said in one of the above comment- Hindus have not seen any reformers from long time. I agree we need one very badly to eliminate corrupt and polluted mind.
Jai Hind!
Reena
Why dont you give them chance?. It is their honest confession and comments. I am not saying trust whatever they say but atleast they have guts to accepts the faults. Atleast they dont sound like Taliban here.
Jai Hind!
I mean they have not acted like taliban in their above comments. They are trying to see everything through lights.
indian ,everybody whether hindu or muslim has to see light . one of the most imporant parts of our history is the ‘reniassance in europe ‘ in the 13th and 14th century .it is the most glorious period in west european history where the people fed up with the pope and their religious leaders ,embarked on a new journey of self discovery through rational means .this was the same europe that had failed against muslim supremacy in every walk of life. for 600 hundred years they were seeking answers for their miseries from church leaders who were their guiding force.all they got from them were stories of past glories and biblical fictitious stories and depression which divided society on religious infightings .this was the period when the muslim world was scaling new heights in military expansion ,art,learning,architecture and science ,calligraphy,explorations,etc.the overwhelming desire to achieve the muslim success levels drove them to abandon traditional past and see light through positive thinking . the renaissance period in europe changed west europe forever ,and they came out of the inferiority complex that that engulfed them after losing 2 very expensively mounted crusades on the muslims.the reasoning light and foundation stone was laid and 500 years later they bore the fruits in the form of the ‘french revolution’ and the world at their feet.the boys of the ‘dark ages’ had at last seen light ,and they had thrown the muslim masters in darkness and utter confusion for the next 200 years . there is a lesson in this for all of us .pulling my leg with silly comments is not at all in spirit with the levels of discussions we have set out to achieve on this blog.instead of learning through a healthy discussion ,we are all indulging in pesonal attacks of the worst kind . nobody is perfect here ,yet there is a sprit to discuss things which must be appreciated.asif was not 100 percent accurate ,but there was a spirit of discussion in it .rather than barking at him,it is better to correct him. learn from him and let him learn from u.i confess there are so many things i learnt from here.there have been times when the provocation on me has been of the worst kind and left me disgusted .yet i m here for the good people and the high quality and levels of discussions this blog has set out to achieve.
Church in Kerala to field candidates in Indian Parlimentary elections dt March 20,’09
Dear Ravi, it is one more feather in the crown of secularism!!!
Have you not heard “the once upon a time Communist party” now CPI(Madhani) fought with its partners to offer the Ponnani seat to an independent nominated by Madhani (of the Coimbatore blast fame – and subsequently acquited, though never appealed against by government!!!) of the PDP now most celebrated secularist certified by the patent holders of secularism.
Forget about black and white sheeps in every community and every village. How do you explain that a no. of village panchayats with Muslim presidents demanding everyone in their villages should adopt Islamic faith and life styles if they wish to continue living in their ancestoral homes in these villages, and there is no protection from our secular govt, either at the state or centre level.
These are overt and covert admonitions to follow, lest the consequences will be lethal.
How can anyone call this a secular democracy where equality, respect for individual rights, equity and justice are being openly violated in those villages?
Such a vicious situation is further aggravated by continuing rural poverty and denial of even minimum living standards even 60+ yrs after independence.
This curse of Incredible India is NOT likely to change as we witness the horse-trading before the LS elections and the kind of candidates who are likely to be contesting in the forthcoming elections.
As Indians we have inherited and cleverly convaluted the colonial philosphy of divide-and-rule to land ourselves in the present mess. It is not going to change or improve our nation, unless we realise to do the right things “bottom up”, start with human-value based education,primary health care, early child development, access to potable water and environmental sanitation, food security, eliminating use of caste-religion-based identities in all documentation and departments of daily life, and finally, eliminate politics in religion as well as religion in politics.
Unless we resolve ourselves to do this in our own daily life, 21st Century will NOT be India’s time and we will be missing the bus again. We will still be surviving, but not as a nation to be proud of our ancient heritage and fountain head of culture and wisdom. The choice is of course ours.
@ Muthuswami: Do you have any press cuttings/ other evidence to back up what you have mentioned above re. Village Panchayat heads?
I would be very keen to take a look..
Thanks.
Also see this comment about Muslim organisations lamenting the low representation of Muslims in Union Cabinet
Extract from Islamic Vote Bank Politics – Ominous Portents for India:
For years despite practising a brand of politics that favored Muslims through unapologetic minorytism, parties like the Congress and more recently regional outfits like Mulayam Singh Yadav’s Samajwadi Party in Uttar Pradesh, UP and Lalu Yadav’s Rashtriya Janatad Dal, RJD in Bihar, never really had a consolidated bloc of Muslim Voters they could rely on elections after elections. Sensing an opportunity in exposing the hollow minorytism practised by the likes of Congress, SP, RJD and more specifically AGP in Assam, a group of muslim outfits under the leadership of a Businessman turned Politician Badruddin Ajmal formed the Assam United Democratic Front or AUDF.
The Ajmal experiment in Assam paid off rich dividends with the AUDF contesting in 69 seats and winning 10, contrast this with the BJP contesting 125 seats and also winning only 10. What is astounding is the vote percentages with which the AUDF supported Muslim candidates won the elections in these 10 seats. For example in Bilasipara West in Assam the total turnout was 82%, which is very high for any election in India, however the winning Muslim candidate from AUDF polled only 24% of the votes. In Katigora which had nearly 70% voter turnout, the winning Muslim candidate from AUDF polled only 37%. Badruddin Ajmal himself in Jamunamukh which had a voter turnout close to 80% polled less than 50%. The story is pretty much the same in the rest of the seats save a couple. The lesson from Assam seems to be that despite a fragmented polity, there was sufficient consolidation of Muslim votes behind an upapologetically Muslim Political Outfit to ensure electoral victory despite very high overall voter turnouts.
Excerpts from Pak Eulogising Islamist Jinnah By Tufail Ahmad, 25th December 2013
…
There are two shades of debate about the politics of Muhammad Ali Jinnah (1876-1948), the founder of Pakistan whose birthday is celebrated on December 25. First, liberal commentators argue that Jinnah was a secular leader who advocated a state for Indian Muslims, not an Islamic state. They cite his statements in support of democratic values, pluralism and minority rights such as: “The new state would be a modern democratic state with sovereignty resting in the peopleâ€; “Muslims will cease being Muslims; Hindus will cease being Hindus, not religiously, but politicallyâ€; “Pakistan is not a theocracyâ€. This class of advocates has been marginalised in Pakistan’s policymaking and school textbooks.
Second, right-wing writers and Islamic clerics attribute Jinnah’s ideas to the Quran and Sunnah, or the traditions of Prophet Muhammad. They argue that Jinnah stood for an Islamic state and cite his mission’s fulfilment as expressed in the popular response to this slogan: What is the meaning of Pakistan? The chorus: La ilaha illallah (There is no deity but Allah). This class of advocates, supported by successive governments, rules over the country’s mainstream. Akbar S Ahmed, author of Jinnah, Pakistan and Islamic Identity: The Search for Saladin, notes two stages of Jinnah’s personality: in the first, he is a secular person and stays so amid the Hindu politics of the 1920s. In the second stage, he is tutored by the Islamist poet Muhammad Iqbal, resulting in a complete intellectual break from 1937 onwards, when Jinnah relies increasingly on Islam to advance Muslim separatism.
From 1937 onwards and even after the creation of Pakistan, Jinnah’s speeches were laced with imageries from Islam. He made statements like: “Muslims… have not been crushed during the last 1,000 yearsâ€; “I shall never allow Muslims to be slaves of Hindusâ€; “The cows that Hindus worship Muslims eat, the villains that Hindus malign, Muslims idoliseâ€; “The goal of Pakistan is not only to get freedom and autonomy but the Islamic concept of lifeâ€; “It is Prophet Muhammad’s spiritual blessing that Pakistan came into being. Now it is Pakistanis’ responsibility to turn it into the model (state) of the Righteous Caliphsâ€; “We must… present to the world an economic system based on true Islamic concept of equality.â€
…
In the sociology of nations, facts are sometimes not important; it is more important what people consider to be the facts. Jinnah unleashed a genie. The search for an Islamic identity meant that women stopped wearing saris; people began choosing Arabic names; Pakistan looked to the Arabs rather than to its Indian heritage; her origin was calculated back to the arrival of Muhammad bin Qasim in 712 AD; the civilisations of Taxila, Harappa and Mohenjo-Daro, which existed for thousands of years before Islam, were erased from memory. Even liberal writers began searching for an Iqbal in the cosmopolitan Ghalib, or for Jinnah in Saladdin who conquered Jerusalem.
It is immaterial what kind of Pakistan Jinnah stood for; what is consequential is the genie. In Arab folklore, the genie granted wishes; in Pakistan it kills people. The genie, imbued with free will, is Islamism; it refuses to return into the bottle. In Pakistan today, the mainstream is right-wing, Islamist and growingly xenophobic. If Pakistan were a Hollywood movie, it is invaded by aliens. The genie’s cousins are killing people. They have outlawed Ahmadi Muslims as non-Muslims. They are forcibly converting Hindu girls to Islam and trapping Christians in blasphemy cases. A genocide is unfolding, as Shia Muslims are being hunted and murdered systematically. These murders are ideological; the killers are not found. The secular Jinnah is dead; the Islamist Jinnah is alive. Pakistan is irrecoverable as a state and has entered, to use noted historian Ayesha Jalal’s words, a state of “cognitive disabilityâ€.
Tufail Ahmad is director of South Asia Studies Project at the Middle East Media Research Institute, Washington DC. Email: tufailelif@yahoo.co.uk