On Kandhamal, Conversions and Proselytization
Dear All, pl. continue the robust discussion on “Why are Christian Missionaries targeting India – III” below.
I have reproduced the last four comments for the sake of continuity. Please continue the discussion via comments to this post.
*** Comments from Why are Christian Missionaries targeting India – III ***
# ‘42,000 converted, only two followed law’
KANDHAMAL (Orissa): There has been a 66 percent growth in Christian population in Orissa’s Kandhamal region, which has seen attacks on Christians and churches. Of the 42,353 who adopted Christianity between 1991 and 2001, only two followed law to change religion.
According to data available with the district collectorate, the Christian population in Kandhamal was 117,950 in the 2001 census, up from 75,597 a decade earlier.
“The Christian growth rate in the district is 66 percent as against 18.6 percent for the overall population growth in the district,†District Collector Krishan Kumar told IANS.
Of the over 650,000 people in the troubled district, at least 53 percent are tribals, less than 20 percent Christians. Of the nearly 118,000 Christians, a majority has converted from Dalit families.
more here.
Comment by Bharat | October 27, 2008
# Crime Branch sleuths chasing Congress RS Member Radhakant Nayak
Tuesday, October 28, 2008
By Anurjay Dhal
Bhubaneswar: Congress Rajya Sabha member Radhakant Nayak is on run. If unconfirmed reports are to be believed, Nayak, alleged villain behind Swami Laxmananda Saraswati’s murder, is in trouble.
Crime Branch of Orissa Police looking into the brutal murder of noted Hindu saint has reportedly listed name of Nayak as an accused, who is very close to Congress Chief Sonia Gandhi for his Church back-ground and searching him in several areas for his role.
Sources pointed out that police might lay it hand either on Radhakant Nayak or his men. Nayak, a former bureaucrat, was considered the chief patron of Pana Christians and protector of the Church in the district.
However some adverse IB report against him came as a hurdle. In 2004 he was elected to Rajya Sabha on Congress ticket. Hindutava forces always suspected his hand behind the killing. Alleged involvement of Nayak would also help BJP to target Sonia Gandhi.
more here.
Comment by Bharat | October 28, 2008
# …On the other hand, Swami Vidyanand is white and Bhakti Swami Thirtha Krishnapad is an African American but are revered by all Hindus, regardless of race. There is no talk of white swami or African American swami.
My take: ISKCON have brown, white, black, etc Swamijis, and devotees from all color spectrums, race, nationality, languages. And they are nobodys concern, but the devotion and love to Krishna.
========
Christian church is obsessed with race
Published:Oct 26, 2008
The Times
It is a white supremacist mindset that claims “Pope Benedict XVI has created India’s first woman saintâ€.
Sister Alphonsa of the Immaculate Conception is not “India’s first woman saint†but the first Christian, or more specifically Catholic, woman saint in India. India has many woman saints belonging to the homegrown faiths.
If race consciousness were not so pronounced in the Christian church, especially the Catholic church, she would have been a saint for the entire Catholic world.
After all, the media did not refer to Mohammed Siddique Khan, the mastermind of the London bombings of July 7 2005, as a British terrorist (although he was born in Britain) but as an Islamic terrorist.
Similarly, a Catholic saint, even if born in India, is a Catholic saint, not an Indian saint.
For instance, the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, although he resided in the West for a great number of years, was always described in the media as an Indian Rishi, Yogi, spiritual master, etc.
On the other hand, Swami Vidyanand is white and Bhakti Swami Thirtha Krishnapad is an African American but are revered by all Hindus, regardless of race. There is no talk of white swami or African American swami.
Another noteworthy example of the Christian obsession with race was the picture of former Miss Deaf World, the lovely Candice Morgan, sporting a symbol of Hindu affirmation, the bindi, on her forehead. On April 15 2007, in an interview on the TV1 programme Spirit Sundae, Morgan stated that she was a Christian.
Many Indian Christians have taken to sporting such symbols of Hindu affirmation in the new South Africa in order to repackage their racism as culture, in order to segregate themselves from Christians of other races, especially black Christians.
Some Indian Christians no longer want to be buried in what used to be called “sanctified ground†but choose to enter the Christian heaven via the back door, the Clare Estate Hindu Crematorium, previously regarded as a “demonic†place! These are the clever ways of racism. — REALITY CHECK
http://www.thetimes.co.za/PrintEdition/News/Article.aspx?id=870299
Comment by Bharat | October 28, 2008
# Hi to all
Check this website
Comment by Indian | October 28, 2008
Related Posts:
“Why have Missionaries chosen to attack India?â€
“Why are Christian Missions targetting India?†– II
Why are Christian Missionaries targeting India – III
.
UPDATE: Pl continue the discussion on this thread: Why are Christian Missionaries Targeting India – V
Dear Indian,
Dharma is on its way to victory. The example is Kandhamal. In spite of the rantings of the secular press and the western media and the leaders led by the noses for a few votes to make more crores; WHO IS ON THE RUN? It is the Christian baiter Nayak and a cohort of a top leader.
Regards,
vck
http://www.blogs.ivarta.com/india-usa-blog-column191.htm
Missionories are active from 1546 and how brutal were they regarding Hidu faith. Peolpe,please read this
By V. Sundaram (IAS)Retd., Officer
Atrocities on Hindus by missionaries in Goa–I
http://newstodaynet.com/col.php?section=20&catid=33&id=10290
Atrocities on Hindus by missionaries in Goa–II
http://newstodaynet.com/col.php?section=20&catid=33&id=10312
Atrocities on Hindus by missionaries in Goa–III
http://newstodaynet.com/col.php?section=20&catid=33&id=10339
Atrocities on Hindus by missionaries in Goa–IV
http://newstodaynet.com/col.php?section=20&catid=33&id=10408
Atrocities on Hindus by missionaries in Goa–V
http://newstodaynet.com/col.php?section=20&catid=33&id=10463
They are just a tip of an iceberg.
Bharat,
You have to be in the pay of foreign agents looking to incite a civil war in India.
The ” atrocities on Hindus” refers to the Portuguese Inquisition in Goa c. 1560-1600. And, you put up these links here PRETENDING that there is CURRENT?
If you are typical of a “Hindu”, then the Hindu community would be well cautioned to ignore all your rants.
Before the British united India/Bharat ….. India was broken up into over 15-20 kingdoms, if I count only the major one, more like 70-80 states, if I take the minor ones, as well.
With your hate campaigns, you (and those of your ilk) are all very much on your way to completely disintegrating India again. Congratulations. Be happy with your “piece” of Bharat, Bharat.
Violent missionaries and beleaguered Hindus of Orissa
“Hinduism and many of the occult activities that come out of the Orient are inspired by demons and demon worship…There’s this concept that all religions are the same and all are good. That is not true. The worship of the Devil is not good’.” —Pat Robertson (one among the deadly devils from the west!!)
The UPA government today has become an apex missionary organisation for pro-Christian, and pro-Muslim and anti-Hindu propaganda.
http://newstodaynet.com/col.php?section=20&catid=33&id=10262
Thought-provoking Op-Ed by Francois Gautier “The Hindu Rate Of Wrath“. I am reproducing it in full below:
The Hindu Rate Of Wrath
When the Mahatma’s cowards erupt in fury, it hurts. It isn’t terror.
Francois Gautier
Is there such a thing as ‘Hindu terrorism’, as the arrest of Sadhvi Pragya Singh Thakur for the recent Malegaon blasts may tend to prove? Well, I guess I was asked to write this column because I am one of that rare breed of foreign correspondents—a lover of Hindus! A born Frenchman, Catholic-educated and non-Hindu, I do hope I’ll be given some credit for my opinions, which are not the product of my parents’ ideas, my education or my atavism, but garnered from 25 years of reporting in South Asia (for Le Journal de Geneve and Le Figaro).
In the early 1980s, when I started freelancing in south India, doing photo features on kalaripayattu, the Ayyappa festival, or the Ayyanars, I slowly realised that the genius of this country lies in its Hindu ethos, in the true spirituality behind Hinduism. The average Hindu you meet in a million villages possesses this simple, innate spirituality and accepts your diversity, whether you are Christian or Muslim, Jain or Arab, French or Chinese. It is this Hinduness that makes the Indian Christian different from, say, a French Christian, or the Indian Muslim unlike a Saudi Muslim. I also learnt that Hindus not only believed that the divine could manifest itself at different times, under different names, using different scriptures (not to mention the wonderful avatar concept, the perfect answer to 21st century religious strife) but that they had also given refuge to persecuted minorities from across the world—Syrian Christians, Parsis, Jews, Armenians, and today, Tibetans. In 3,500 years of existence, Hindus have never militarily invaded another country, never tried to impose their religion on others by force or induced conversions.
You cannot find anybody less fundamentalist than a Hindu in the world and it saddens me when I see the Indian and western press equating terrorist groups like simi, which blow up innocent civilians, with ordinary, angry Hindus who burn churches without killing anybody. We know also that most of these communal incidents often involve persons from the same groups—often Dalits and tribals—some of who have converted to Christianity and others not.
However reprehensible the destruction of Babri Masjid, no Muslim was killed in the process; compare this to the ‘vengeance’ bombings of 1993 in Bombay, which wiped out hundreds of innocents, mostly Hindus. Yet the Babri Masjid destruction is often described by journalists as the more horrible act of the two. We also remember how Sharad Pawar, when he was chief minister of Maharashtra in 1993, lied about a bomb that was supposed to have gone off in a Muslim locality of Bombay.
I have never been politically correct, but have always written what I have discovered while reporting. Let me then be straightforward about this so-called Hindu terror. Hindus, since the first Arab invasions, have been at the receiving end of terrorism, whether it was by Timur, who killed 1,00,000 Hindus in a single day in 1399, or by the Portuguese Inquisition which crucified Brahmins in Goa. Today, Hindus are still being targeted: there were one million Hindus in the Kashmir valley in 1900; only a few hundred remain, the rest having fled in terror. Blasts after blasts have killed hundreds of innocent Hindus all over India in the last four years. Hindus, the overwhelming majority community of this country, are being made fun of, are despised, are deprived of the most basic facilities for one of their most sacred pilgrimages in Amarnath while their government heavily sponsors the Haj. They see their brothers and sisters converted to Christianity through inducements and financial traps, see a harmless 84-year-old swami and a sadhvi brutally murdered. Their gods are blasphemed.
So sometimes, enough is enough.At some point, after years or even centuries of submitting like sheep to slaughter, Hindus—whom the Mahatma once gently called cowards—erupt in uncontrolled fury. And it hurts badly. It happened in Gujarat. It happened in Jammu, then in Kandhamal, Mangalore, and Malegaon. It may happen again elsewhere. What should be understood is that this is a spontaneous revolution on the ground, by ordinary Hindus, without any planning from the political leadership. Therefore, the BJP, instead of acting embarrassed, should not disown those who choose other means to let their anguished voices be heard.
There are about a billion Hindus, one in every six persons on this planet. They form one of the most successful, law-abiding and integrated communities in the world today. Can you call them terrorists?
***
Sophisticated evangelism: http://www.cbnindia.org/in/about_us/
and amazing outreach: http://www.cbn.com/worldreach/worldreach_region_asia_india.aspx
CBN is founded by Pat Robertson, a television evangelist & a hugely successful one at that. Also involved in illegal mining in Africa!
From Sandeep’s Op-Ed in The Pioneer: Pope gets Gandhi wrong (reproduced in full):
On October 26 this year, Pope Benedict invoked Mahatma Gandhi’s name in an appeal to end “violence against Christians†in Orissa. It would have been ridiculous if only it had not been so ironical. This reminds us of a proverb about pinching the baby and pacifying it.
Reiterating a few facts would be in order. The Pope has chosen wisely when he chose to invoke Gandhi’s name. While Gandhi’s relevance and legacy in contemporary India is debatable, he is still much revered by millions of people. Equally, he is deeply respected in Christian countries because he comes close to the Christ-like figure that those countries are intimately familiar with. Gandhi’s life, and writings and speeches show him to be a moralist in the Christian mould: An overt emphasis on suffering, heartfelt compassion for the poor, and a non-violent fighter against oppression. Yet, he was a self-proclaimed, “proud staunch Sanatani Hindu.â€
Whatever his understanding of core Hindu philosophical tenets, Gandhi’s attachment to Hinduism was so steadfast that it is touching at different levels.
He unequivocally upheld his opposition to all attempts at destabilising Sanatana Dharma. In the August 1925 issue of Young India, he wrote:
“I am unable to identify with orthodox Christianity. I must tell you in all humility that Hinduism, as I know it, entirely satisfies my soul, fills my whole being, and I find solace in the Bhagavad Gita and the Upanishads that I miss even in the Sermon on the Mount… I must confess to you that when doubts haunt me, when disappointments stare me in the face, and when I see not one ray of light on the horizon I turn to the Bhagavad Gita, and find a verse to comfort me; and I immediately begin to smile in the midst of overwhelming sorrow. My life has been full of external tragedies and if they have not left any visible and indelible effect on me, I owe it to the teachings of the Bhagavad Gita.
A more assertive proclamation of Gandhi’s firm Hindu moorings is not required. Gandhi rightly recognised proselytisation as a problem and condemned it as fiercely as he upheld Hinduism. He discerned that the psychology that drives conversion is innately flawed and dangerous. We only need to look at a few samples from Gandhi’s copious writings to learn his stance vis a vis conversions:
“Why should a Christian want to convert a Hindu to Christianity? Why should he not be satisfied if the Hindu is a good or godly man?” (Harijan, January 30, 1937)
“I hold that proselytisation under the cloak of humanitarian work is unhealthy to say the least.†(Young India: April 23, 1931)
“If I had power and could legislate, I should certainly stop all proselytising. It is the cause of much avoidable conflict between classes and unnecessary heart-burning among missionaries…â€
And here the Pope invokes Gandhi’s name in utter ignorance of the Mahatma’s stand on Christian proselytisation. Pope Benedict’s message is addressed to all Hindus on the occasion of Diwali.
We are immediately struck with wonder at the sheer presumptuousness of this singular Diwali greeting: The subtle subtext seems to reprimand the Hindus for attacking Christians while completely omitting any mention of the root cause for the communal/social unrest!
More fundamentally, the Pope has no authority to interfere in what is exclusively an Indian social problem. In this context, is he prepared to admit that the remote control for missionary activities in India lies in his hands?
The Pope’s message confirms the fact that selective quoting is not merely restricted to media and mischievous rhetoricians. While it self-righteously assumes these attributes to itself, it doesn’t come clean on its own record. Pope Benedict’s predecessor’s triumphant announcement during his 1999 India visit is a good instance. Till date, not one soul in the entire Christendom has condemned his intent to “harvest soulsâ€.
One wonders what gives these religious leaders the right to arrogate to themselves such licence. Are non-Christians — in the Indian context, this primarily means Hindus — a harvest waiting to be reaped? It is precisely against this form of mischief that Gandhi raised his voice.
The Pope’s interpretation of Gandhi’s message of non-violence is false. Non-violence in the Gandhian doctrine does not stand for a cowardly acceptance of injustice and unprovoked violence. In that light, Gandhi’s call to oppose proselytisation is — like his freedom struggle mantra — but opposition to any form of oppression. He viewed proselytisation as not just a form of cultural invasion but a hindrance to world peace. At the microcosmic level, he observed how a Hindu family is disrupted if just one member converts to Christianity.
“In Hindu households the advent of a missionary has meant the disruption of the family coming in the wake of change of dress, manners, language, food and drink.” (Harijan, November 5, 1935)
“It is impossible for me to reconcile myself to the idea of conversion after the style that goes on in India and elsewhere today. It is an error which is perhaps the greatest impediment to the world’s progress toward peace.†(Harijan, January 30, 1937)
If we observe the social conditions of mostly-poor nations that have been weaned away from their native traditions, Gandhi’s remark becomes clearer. Angola is a Christian-majority country now, but was torn by civil strife for over 27 years.
Religious tensions exist till date between the native Bantu tribal traditions and the ‘Christian network’ of villages. Numerous African countries are torn by strife, thanks to missionary activity. Philippines, the Christian-majority state has mostly lost its native traditions thanks to centuries-long Spanish colonisation followed by aggressive evangelism. Papua New Guinea’s former Chief Justice, an outspoken Pentecostal, urged legislative and other bridles on the activities of Muslims in the country. Although it is home to some very diverse cultures and faiths, 96 per cent of its population is Christian. Its native, animist tradition is all but lost.
The clashes between Christians and followers of native traditions in South Korea still make headlines. Evangelist leaders openly call for political activity against North Korea by accelerating the spread of Christianity. This is not dissimilar to evangelists-backed secessionist movement in India’s North-East States.
This list is just a sample but is sufficient evidence to show the truth in Gandhi’s astute observation more than 70 years ago that evangelical activity poses a threat to peace.
If the present Pope wanted to spread the Mahatma’s words, he should have presented the whole story instead of just a twisted interpretation. Besides, we do not need to take lessons about Gandhi from the Pope. Not at least when the lesson is fraught with frivolity.
Soul harvesting business run by the only True God’s agents uses 2000 years proven deceitful tactics. They perfected the art of destroying others cultures, civilizations, social systems and relations, way of life. They have no iota of shame for this, as that is their ideology.
===
Faith is dangling between God and Money
http://www.odishatoday.com/Analysis/Faith_dangling_between_God_Money_011108-57687989074653125364.html
Also read.
Conversations with foreign-funded charity
Excerpts.
Has the time come for the Government to set up a National Commission to investigate religious conversions in India? Certainly. Let the Nation know how many conversions have taken place from—and into—Hinduism, Islam, Christianity, Sikhism and other faiths since 1947. Let the commission throw light on the districts where, and how, significant changes in religious demography have taken place, and whether conversions have created resentment and social disharmony in their wake.
An unbiased commission would reveal three irrefutable facts: (1) Christianity accounts for the largest number of
converts; (2) Christian organisations conduct service activities—schools, hospitals, poverty-alleviation programmes, relief during calamities, etc.—with exemplary dedication and professionalism. However, some of them, though not all, make the conversion agenda a part of their seva agenda; (3) Foreign funds supporting these charitable activities have greatly aided conversions.
read more here.
http://www.vigilonline.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=995&Itemid=1
I read the article on vigilonline. That was the first time I heard about Hindus killed on Makara Shankranti. It is really a pity that with one billion Hindus in the world, we don’t have proper representation in the media. How long are we going to accept the atrocities committed on our fellow citizens.
One of the things I learnt from living in the US is that the Christian Evangelical groups were greatly aided in their political ambitions by having a TV network (Fox) which tilted every story and presented only the christian conservative point of view as legitimate.
I wonder if such a network of TV and other media which exclusively covers stories from the Hindu perspective is currently in the works. I realize we have TV channels which give spiritual guidance and teach yoga etc. But not a single channel deals with social, political news with a HIndu perspective. I am definitely interested in being a part of such an effort.
A must read wonderful exposition of Fraudism (download free online book by Sita Ram Goel). Every Hindu must read this book.
Jesus Christ
An Artifice for Aggression
http://www.burningcross.net/crusades/artifice-for-aggression.pdf
1. Christianity Crumbles in the West
In spite of Bultmann and the rest resorting to endless blah
blah, the twentieth century West has refused to buy the Christ of Faith. What we find flourishing over there, as we have seen, is the Jesus of Fiction. “Anyone who cares to look,†writes Koenraad Elst, “can see that Christianity [in the West] is in a steep decline. This is especially the case in Europe, where church attendance levels in many countries have fallen below 10% or even 5%. In most Christian countries, the trend is the same, even if less dramatic. Even more ominous for the survival of Christianity is the decline in the priestly vocation…
2. Jesus is Junk
It is high time for Hindus to learn that Jesus Christ
symbolises no spiritual power, or moral uprightness. He is no more than an artifice for legitimizing wanton imperialist aggres-sion. The aggressors have found him to be highly profitable so far.
By the same token, Hindus should know that Jesus means nothing but mischief for their country and culture. The West where he flourished for long, has discarded him as junk. There is no reason why Hindus should buy him. He is the type of junk that cannot be re-cycled. He can only poison the environment…
Patriot seems to think if Hindus forget the past and try to pursue peace at all costs, that Indian territorial integrity will somehow be preserved. Yet, even now various Christian groups in the Northest and Muslim groups throughout India have no respect for the Indian state and repeatedly state that their goal is the vivisection of India. I think it is about time that Hindus stand up and demand a Hindu nation in India–a nation that will live in peace with its minorities but not allow them to dictate to the majority and usurp the majoritY’s position and not seek to de Hinduise and de-nationalize India.
Obviously these changes need to take place legally thru changes in the constitution. But I do believe that we can start a movement first by getting our religious institutions out of the hands of the various state governments.
Secondly, sufficient numbers of educated people who have a clear vision might want to join the BJP. Yes I know it is a lame duck party right now but maybe we can instill a little sense into it. Since it is the only one which has national presence and Hindu nationalistic leanings, plus an enormous grassroots movement in the form of the RSS, it will probably be around for sometime. Thus it makes it easier than starting a new party .
Dear Sir,
When it comes to history Hindus should lose as always.
Babri Masjid should kept alive! Modi should always be bashed at any cost! Godse should always be recalled as a murderer!
Kandhamal – Call the Seventh fleet to hit the Hindus!
Karnataka – Call Bin Laden!
Portugese inquisitions– Forget it happened only to Hindus!
Kashmiri Pundits- Forget it they are also Hindus! Assam – Again only Hindus!
The breaking of temples during the Islamic regime- what a joke it is only Hindu! Where is history!
Regards,
vck
From Inculturation: Fooling Hindus by Nithin Sridhar
http://blogs.siliconindia.com/NithinSridhar/fpDx9VH841579433
In early 1982, Father Joseph Parekatil of the Catholic Church of Parasahi, Madhya Pradesh, destroyed the sacred murthi of the Goddess Visweshwari Siddheswari enshrined on the nearby Nawain Tekdi hill and erected a small wooden cross. Later, the father erected a 31 – foot high concrete cross illegally on the hill on February 18th, 1983. Enraged villagers destroyed the cross a month later on March 17th.
On February 20th, 1985, with the intent once again of trying to gain possession of the hill, Father Parekatil put on the orange robes of a Hindu sannyasin, built a hut on the hill, sat on a tiger skin and began performing worship in the Hindu style. As a result, thousands of simple Hindus came to the hill on Fridays, unaware of the deception they were witnessing. On May 18th, a complaint was registered, but to no avail. Again there was agitation in the area, and this time, on October 1st, 1985, the villagers tore down the priest”s hut and tossed away the remaining pieces of the concrete cross. Father Parekatil only gave up when he was arrested a week later for breaking the peace and released on bail with instructions to behave [1].
This tactics used by Father Parekatil of adopting Hindu symbols, to further his missioanry goal is called as “Inculturation” or “Indigenization”. Christianity has always been following a policy of “Inculturation.” This means that it adopted Pagan elements in Christianized form in order to ease the transition from Paganism to Christianity. Pagan gods became Christian saints. Pagan Festivals became Christian festivals.In this process of inculturation, the Christian Church adapted old forms to its new message, but made sure that through the Pagan veneer the Christian doctrine was impressed upon the converts [2].
“Indigenization,” says Kaj Baago, “is evangelization. It is the planting of the gospel inside another culture, another philosophy, another religion [3]”. In Indian case, “Inculturation” or “Indigenization” means “the incorporation of Jesus in Indian spiritual tradition”. Fr. Bede says “In India we need a Christian Vedanta and a Christian Yoga that is a system of theology which makes use not only of the terms and concepts but of the whole structure of thought of the Vedanta [4].”
Shantivanam Ashram on the banks of the sacred Cauvery River at a forested place near Trichy in South India appears Hindu. It has a Hindu shrine; saffron-robed “swami” seated cross – legged on a straw mat; devotees practising yogic meditations, even chanting Hindu scriptures.
But these impressions gradually prove false. First, the eye detects that the courtyard shrine is for Saint Paul and that “puja” is actually, a daily Mass, complete with incense, arati lamps, flower offerings and prasadam. Finally, one meets the “swami”, learning he is Father Bede “Dayananda” Griffiths, a Christian “sannyasin”. This is a Christian ashram, one of more than 50 in India, which are variously described as “experiments in cross-cultural communication,” “contemplative hermitages that revolve around both Christian and Hindu ideals.Fr. J. Monchanin [5], one of the founding members himself defines his mission in these terms: “I have come to India for no other purpose than to awaken in a few souls the desire (the passion) to raise up a Christian India. It will take centuries, sacrificed lives and we shall perhaps die before seeing any realizations. A Christian India, completely Indian and completely Christian will be something so wonderful the sacrifice of our lives is not too much to ask.” His words clearly show the motive behind these ashrams.
Lausanne Movement (for world evangelization) published a paper “Christian witness to Hindus [6]” (1980). In the report, under the title “Methodology Issues” lists some of the methods to be implemented to convert Hindus. Some of them are-
(1) We should enunciate theology in Indian categories so that the Hindu can understand the gospel.
(2) We must develop a truly Christian world view consistent with the Indian context.
(3) While presenting the gospel, we must be aware of the fact that the Hindu understands the doctrine of God, man, sin, and salvation in a way entirely different from the biblical doctrine.
(4) Communicate the gospel through indigenous methods such as bhajans, drama, dialogue, discourse, Indian music, festival processions, etc.
Sita Ram Goel, in his book “Catholic Ashrams [7]”, lists 108 such Christian ashram in India, 4 in Nepal and 8 in Sri Lanka. His list includes Asha Niketan, Bangalore, Karnataka, Bethany Ashram (1938), Channapatna, Karnataka, Christa Sevakee Ashram (1950), Karkala, Karnataka, Christian Institute for the study of Religion and Society, Bangalore, Karnataka, Yesu Karuna Prarthanalaya, Kote, Mysore istrict, Karnataka. The present Catholic ashrams have inherited a history of intrigue and subterfuge.
Here is a description from the “Madhya Pradesh Report(1956) [8]”: “Robert De Nobili (A Catholic Jesuit priest) appeared in Madura in 1607 clad in the saffron robes of a Sadhu with sandal paste on his forehead and the sacred thread on his body. He gave out that he was a Brahmin from Rome. He showed documentary evidence to prove that he belonged to a clan that had migrated from ancient India. He declared that he was bringing a message which had been taught in India by Indian ascetics of yore and that he was only restoring to Hindus one of their lost sacred books, namely the 5th Veda, called Yeshurveda (Jesus Veda). It passed for a genuine work until the Protestant Missionaries exposed the fraud about the year 1840. This Brahmin Sannyasi of the “Roman Gotra”, Father De Nobili, worked for 40 years and died at the ripe age of 89 in 1656. It is said that he had converted about a lakh of persons but they all melted away after his death”.
This is the situation the Hindu finds himself in. Christian missionaries have adopted Hindu ways of life, Hindu religious symbols, architecture, worship forms and declared themselves as Swamis. A Catholic priest who calls himself “swami” instantly attains the status and authority of a holy man in Hindu society, which he can use to make converts. By using Sanskrit terminology in his sermons he implies a close relationship of Hindu theology to Catholic theology, a relationship which does not really exist. Such missionaries speak authoritatively on Hindu scriptures and argue that their [Christian] teachings are consonant with everything Hindu, but add a finishing touch, “fullness” to the traditional faith.
References & Notes:
1 Hinduism Today, Indian Ocean Edition, December, 1988.
2 Salvation: Hindu influence on Christianity by Dr. Koenraad Elst.
3 Kaj Baago, Pioneers of Indigenous Christianity, Madras, 1969, p. 85
4 Bede Griffiths, op. cit., p. 24.
5 “Liberal” Christianity, Ram Swarup
6 “Christian Witness to Hindus”, 1980, Lausanne Committee for World Evangelization
7 Catholic Ashrams- Sanyassins or Swindlers, By Sita Ram Goel
8 Niyogi Comission Report on Christian Missionary activities.
From: Pope Questions Interfaith Dialogue
ROME — In comments on Sunday that could have broad implications in a period of intense religious conflict, Pope Benedict XVI cast doubt on the possibility of interfaith dialogue but called for more discussion of the practical consequences of religious differences.
…Pope Benedict XVIThe pope’s comments came in a letter he wrote to Marcello Pera, an Italian center-right politician and scholar whose forthcoming book, “Why We Must Call Ourselves Christian,†argues that Europe should stay true to its Christian roots. A central theme of Benedict’s papacy has been to focus attention on the Christian roots of an increasingly secular Europe.
In quotations from the letter that appeared on Sunday in Corriere della Sera, Italy’s leading daily newspaper, the pope said the book “explained with great clarity†that “an interreligious dialogue in the strict sense of the word is not possible.†In theological terms, added the pope, “a true dialogue is not possible without putting one’s faith in parentheses.â€
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/24/world/europe/24pope.html
Courtesy Indian, a very disturbing example of Islamic proselytization (with some implications for national security).
From IBN
From Three held for conversion bid:
Good for the locals. The scourge of conversions have to fought by the targeted people also. Laws alone won’t stop this menace.
Below is a brief excerpt of comments/views from SepiaMutiny (courtesy Kiran).
These are meant to trigger a discussion. I will add my own thoughts later.
Thanks
*** Excerpts from SepiaMutiny thread
***
So the idea of equating Indian = Hindu isn’t to say all Indians should follow one dharma. The idea is to say that Indians should try to keep their spiritual roots to India. I really don’t care if all of Kerala joins the Malankara church because the Malankara church doesn’t make it a religious commandment to eradicate non-Christian religions from the face of the Earth the way the Pentecostal and Evangelical churches tend to.
***
Links by Kiran:
http://c-alex-alexander.sulekha.com/blog/post/2003/05/proselytization-in-india-an-indian-christian-s-perspective.htm
http://www.hinduwisdom.info/Conversion.htm
***
Comment by Kiran re. “tribals were never Hindus”:
I agree I have seen adivasis fasting on “Ekadashi”. They abstain eating non-veg food and drinking during Shravan Month. The day before the Shravan month begins, they enjoy whole day drinking and eating of their choice. And I found them more liberal in thoughts too. So root lies within them.
Why are we so concerned about what religion a person chooses? As it is the majority of us have our precious religions by a biological accident. If we had been born into the other religion, we would have been singing a totally different tune now.
So it comes down to an adult choosing his religion. We have adult franchise in India, do we not? When we can trust a person to sift through the blandishments held out by the political parties, can we not trust them with having the intelligence to make a good choice? If the guy feels that this particular brand of soul detergent is better, why can’t he try it out? Or do you think that the Great Proprietor has ordained brand loyalty to be unchanging?
If the sales representative holds out special offers, unethical promotions, maybe the other religions should be complaining to the MRTPC or the Advertising Standards Council? If the pharmaceutical industry can send doctors to Bangkok, the missionaries can at least give out a few blankets. Who stops the other religions from buying allegiance? God in India is flush with funds. It is time the poor Indians saw the colour of it.
@Jayadevan
No sane person gets concern about personal choice of religion. People do have their brain when they are objecting to conversion. You see no difference between personal choice and abusing freedom of religion.
Vow great thoughts about funding! Do you thing our govt., temples and Hindu organization is ready funding for converting people by distributing blankets? Do you think they will accept this method of convertion and planting temple and interfere in the name of poverty in another country. Would our govt support us for engaging in such activity? They can afford to give out blankets because their countries govt., and churches are hand in gloves.
Gandhiji was not lacking anything. He was from wealthy family, had good education in England and a leader, he shed of his own luxury clothes so that he can feel the pain of poor ( it was his way of showing solidarity with country). Do you thing he was in need to uplifting his life in any way? Was his life misearbale and poor? If not than why was he induced and asked to convert?
Forgive my spelling mistakes.
Amazing Research, Organization and Planning.
Excerpts from OperationWorld.org
4. The Church in India is, at the same time, both vital and growing, and nominal and in decline.
a) Much of organized Christianity is based on people movements over the past 400 years and in many denominations Western forms, liberal theology, universalism and a growing nominalism has dried up the rivers of the Spirit to the millions of non-Christians around them. Many congregations have no first-generation Christians from a non-Christian background. Disputes over personalities, power and property have led to many divisions, court cases, a widespread disillusionment and a steady loss of young people to secularism and nominal Hinduism. Pray that present pressures and the work of the Holy Spirit might bring new life to traditional streams of Christianity.
b) The need for change in the Church has never been greater. Pray for:
i) Unity. The All India Christian Council was formed in 1998 to protect and serve Christians from all denominations. Over 2,000 denominations and associations are participating in the AICC. There is greater unity than ever known before, because of the more hostile national environment. The past has been characterised by a spirit of divisiveness. Pray for this unity to mature and develop and to be made visible to the watching world. There also needs to be a greater cooperation and accountability between local churches and sending agencies.
ii) Indigeneity in music, worship and culture – for too long churches have appeared foreign.
iii) Greater reliance on cell/house churches of an Indian model than on Western-style buildings.
iv) More effective discipling of the many being touched or stirred by multiple evangelistic programmes. Pray for a greater integrity of life, earnestness and commitment to the Lord among those evangelizing.
v) More effective outreach through personal evangelism rather than mass rallies.
vi) More relevance to impact the mainstream of national life. The Church is seen to be linked to the marginalized, deprived sections of society. Business, politics, arts, culture, the middle and upper classes have been neglected.
c) Biblical Christianity is thriving:
i) Evangelical pastors in mainline denominations are increasing.
ii) A multiplicity of dynamic, newer Pentecostal and charismatic fellowships have sprung up and spread to many areas.
iii) The number of evangelical denominations has increased and congregations multiplied. There are several key networks linking many denominations – the Pentecostal Fellowship of India (linking all major Pentecostal denominations), the Baptist Evangelical Alliance and the Evangelical Fellowship of India (linking over 100 denominations and agencies). These have been used of God in maturing, stabilizing and mobilizing believers through prayer, conventions, pastors’ retreats, coordinating training, literature production, mission and outreach.
iv) The Charismatic movement in the Catholic Church began in 1972 and has spread to nearly every Catholic church. It has had a profound impact, brought many to new life, and stimulated outreach.
d) The growth of the Church during the 1990s was significant but hard to measure. Many networks for intercession for the evangelization of the country, involving millions of Christians, have flourished, such as the Arpana Prayer Network (in 100 cities linking thousands of Christian women) and Quiet Corner Ministries. Millions have become responsive through widely heard radio programmes, massive distributions of Christian literature, extensive use of Christian videos, films and cassettes. Many have come into the Kingdom through multiple efforts to start new congregations. Pray that no attack of the enemy from outside or inside the Church may stunt this growth.
5 The training of Christian workers is fundamental for the health and growth of the Church. Poor discipling and lack of teaching have made nominalism, syncretism and losses to Hinduism a problem for Catholics, Protestants and Independents. There are about 100,000 full-time workers in India; about half are pastoring local churches. There is, on average, one pastor for every six congregations. Pray for:
a) Degree-level seminaries, of which there are over 40. A minority are theologically evangelical. Several for special mention – Union Biblical Seminary in Pune, with 225 students from 50 evangelical denominations and agencies, Asia Biblical Seminary in Tiruvalla, Kerala with 400 students from 31 denominations, Hindustan Bible Institute, etc. Pray for a stream of warm-hearted workers, anointed by the Spirit, to move out from these institutions to India and beyond.
b) Bible schools which now number over 300, having doubled in 10 years. Evangelical institutions are full. Bible schools need to change from merely teaching theology to giving practical skills in church planting.
c) Training centres for indigenous workers, largely for church planters are playing a significant role (FMPB, IEM, etc.). GFA has set up 50 such, with 5,000 in a 3-year programme in 2000.
d) New, creative ways for multiplying leaders must be sought and, in some cases, are being attempted. Many residential institutions are locked into a Western maintenance model which leads to minimal impact on the non-Christian majority and cannot produce the hundreds of thousands of workers needed now.
e) The House/Cell Church Movement is rapidly spreading in many parts of the country. One such is Operation Agapé in the north and AoG in the south. It is proving culturally appropriate, affordable, biblically authentic and very effective.
6 The growth of the number, size and maturity of Indian cross-cultural outreach agencies is remarkable. In 1973 there were 420 missionaries; in 1983 – 3,017; in 1993 – 12,000 in 200 agencies. By 2000 this had risen to 44,000 in 440+ Protestant/ independent agencies. During the 1990s significant progress was made in upgrading training, improving the quality of ministry, planning strategically, setting goals, initializing research and partnering with others. Pray for:
a) Indian mission agency networking structures play a key role in furthering cooperation, goal-setting and fellowship; major ones being the India Missions Association (132 evangelical agencies representing 21,000 missionaries), CONS, North India Harvest Network.
b) The Asian Theological Association-India and the Indian Institute of Missiology accredit, facilitate and network missions training. There are over 100 schools providing such; almost all started since 1980; IET started 27.
c) The mission agencies themselves, for their leadership to be strategic, for provision of pastoral care and support to their workers, for fruitfulness in ministry and for spiritual unity. The largest agencies: GFA (10,795), CCCI (2,604), IET (1,876), Brethren (1,140), OM (1,000), Mizo Presbyterians (800), New Life (690), IEM (470), EHC (450), FMPB (400). There are 45 Pentecostal missions with over 4,000 workers.
d) Indian missionaries serving in other lands – around 440. Costs for them are much higher. Pray for provision of their finances, etc.
e) OM graduates. The impact of OM on implanting missions vision has been significant. The Association of OM Graduates links together 12,000 full-time Christian workers. Many of these lead some of the most effective agencies in India today.
f) Indian missionaries serving in India face heightened and organized opposition and even persecution. A number of those serving in literature distribution, showing evangelistic films, and in discipling young Christians have been martyred in recent years.
g) A widening of ministry to other needy sections of the population. Hitherto half the cross-cultural missionaries have gone to tribal groups and many of the rest to the downtrodden, marginalized or needy sections of the population. Few are working among the urban middle class, the higher castes, etc. – this needs to be increased, but most existing workers feel inadequately prepared for this challenge.
h) Better and closer relationships between local churches and sending agencies. Many missions are supported by multi-congregational informal prayer networks. There needs to be more accountability between workers and churches.
i) Expatriates serving in India who now number only around 1,000. Tentmaking is one way of entry for new workers, and there are many roles that could be filled by expatriates in support of existing Indian ministries and pioneering contacts in sections of the population not easily reached by indigenous workers. Many international advocates are needed to adopt peoples and areas and raise prayer for barriers to be broken down.
7 The least evangelized areas of India – no other part of the world has such a concentration of unevangelized people. Pray for:
a) The North India Ganges plains with their teeming millions in the Hindi-speaking heartland. In the 5 states of Haryana, Himachal Pradesh, Delhi, Rajasthan and Uttar Pradesh with 360 million people, live 650,000 Christians, but active committed believers may be no more than 120,000. Christians in India are unequally spread – 70% in the south, 25% in the northeast and only 5% in the more populated north and west.
b) The great cities with their rapid growth and mix of great wealth and abject poverty. Chennai (12% Christian) and Mumbai (5%) are in contrast to Kolkata, Delhi, Varanasi, etc., where Christian witness is very small. Twenty-six percent of the urban population live in slums, many being newcomers to the cities. There are 41 million Indians without a home.
8 The least reached mega people groups of India which are resident in many different states.
a) The Brahmin are the highest and priestly caste in the Hindu world. They number 40 million but there may be only 18,000 who openly profess Christianity.
b) Other Forward Castes – the Rajput (40m), Mahratta (28m), Jat (12m), Bhumihar (4m), Arora (3.8m), Samon (3.7m), etc., may have no more than 5,000 Christians. The forward castes have a very negative view of Christian workers – Dalit, simple, cowardly, followers of the colonialists, rejectors of Indian culture and touting Western ideas. There is little effective ministry among them. These people groups will need a different and more sensitive, loving approach and adequate preparation of workers if the barriers to faith in Christ are to be breached.
c) Many Backward Caste peoples, such as the Yadava (31.5m), Kurmi (25.7m), Ahir (25.4m), Gujar (8.5m), Sonar (7.1m) have no known Christians at worst, or a few thousand at best.
d) Dalit groups have responded more, such as the 47m Chamar, with 500,000 Christians, but the 5.5m Dhobi and 7.2m Pasi have shown little response.
e) There are still numerous tribal peoples un- or under-evangelized.
i) The Banjara (Lambadi) are the people from whom the world’s Roma (Gypsy) have come. Mahars have turned to Buddhism in large numbers, but are one of the most responsive groups in Maharashtra and Madhya Pradesh. The Banjara number 4.8 million, but only 1% are Christian.
ii) The 10 million Bhil and 10.5 million Gond are slower in committing their lives to Christ despite years of outreach.
f) The Sindhi – 36 million equally divided between Muslims (in Pakistan) and Hindu (in India). There are 300 Christians among them in India, and about double that globally.
g) There are 205 people groups with populations of over 10,000 that are still totally unreached.
9 Specific communities requiring specialized ministry:
a) The increasingly affluent 250 million of the middle classes have virtually no meaningful contact with Christianity and they are the key sector of society in the 21st Century.
b) Students numbering over 10 million in 250 universities and 10,000 colleges. A high proportion use addictive drugs. Pray for the nation-wide ministries of YFC, ICCC, Intercollegiate Pentecostal Fellowship and the Union of Evangelical Students of India (UESI/IFES). The latter has groups and staff workers in most campuses, winning new Christians annually. Pray for a clear, vibrant witness to the thousands of non-Christian students. Pray for their growth and integration into local churches. There are no UESI staff workers in Kashmir or Himachal Pradesh.
c) Young people – the statistics are solemn: 100 million school drop-outs, 50% living below the poverty line, 24% severely malnourished. Many live in a moral and spiritual vacuum. Most churches do not have the resources or know-how to minister to them. YFC, Blessing Youth Ministry, CEF, SU, CCCI and others reach out to some.
d) Children in crisis – no country can rival India’s need. Of India’s nearly 400m under 18, 70m+ are child labourers, 10m are bonded labourers (a form of slavery to pay off family debts), 13m are homeless, 2m are street children without families. There is widespread child abuse, and there is a deficit of 40m girls because of female foeticide – over 20,000 ultrasound clinics thrive on this illegal practice. There are 575,000 child prostitutes and there is a massive trade in Bangladeshi and Nepali girls sold into prostitution. Pray that these desperate needs may be addressed through loving Christian ministries.
e) Leprosy sufferers number 1.5m, 63% of the world’s total. Christian agencies, in particular TLM and their 2,000 workers in 50 centres, minister to them.
f) The blind. India’s 10m blind represent over a quarter of the world’s total. Few have learned the Braille script, nor are there many materials in Braille in Indian languages. The Torch Trust for the Blind is committed to producing the whole Bible in Braille in the 12 major languages of India. At present there are some books in nine languages, but none have the whole Bible. Other agencies with ministry to blind people are Mission to the Blind and India Fellowship for Physically Handicapped. Compass Braille is an agency specializing in producing Braille Scriptures in Indian languages by means of computer.
g) AIDS has spread rapidly and is worst in Mumbai (3% of population), Maharashtra and Karnataka (2.4%), Tamil Nadu (1.8%) and NE India. Many fear that by 2000 there will be 10m carrying the virus, or 1% of the population of India. By 2020 there could be 200m carrying HIV – if present trends continue unchecked. This could become a catastrophe for India and only now are the authorities and Christian churches and agencies beginning to address the need for effective preventive and care ministries and also the need to minister to drug addicts – a major source of infection. A massive mobilization is needed.
10 Minority religious communities:
a) Muslims may number 140 million making India the second largest Muslim country in the world. Once the rulers of much of India for over 600 years, but now a pressured minority, they are one of the world’s most accessible Muslim communities. Sixty million speak Urdu/Dekkani and 80 million, other languages. Only a few hundred Christian workers are involved with them, but there is a rising interest and concern for Muslims. Several agencies are committed to ministry among them.
b) The Sikh community world-wide numbers around 24 million, but there is little understanding of Sikhism among Christians to be able to dialogue and bring them to a knowledge of Christ. In recent years many Sikhs have turned to Christ in Vancouver, Canada (72 churches) and more recently in Haryana state.
c) Buddhist Tibetans number about 130,000, of which 90,000 are refugees from China. Only 40-50 believers are known. Dharamsala in Himachal Pradesh is the present HQ of the Dalai Lama. Pray for him and his followers.
d) The 3,500,000 Jains and 150,000 Parsees with their wealth, isolation from others, and their unique religions are extremely hard to reach, yet are very influential in society, industry and business.
11 Help Ministries play a vital part in the evangelization of millions who have no meaningful contacts with Christian churches. Pray for:
a) The Bible Society with its long and remarkable ministry and key role in distributing over 100 million portions of Scripture or Bibles annually. Other organizations are also supplying and distributing Scriptures – such as World Home Bible League, Bibles for the World, International Bible Society and Bharatiya Bible League. The Bible League has done much in research of India’s states for all Christian agencies, as well as in effective Bible distribution and outreach to 70 unreached people groups.
b) Bible translation is a major challenge.
i) A new effort as great as that of William Carey 200 years ago should be mounted, or at the present rate of translation it will take 100 years to cover the languages of India!
ii) Indian missions are beginning to rise to the challenge of the 203 languages that still may require attention – 30 with a definite need. Over 100 languages spoken by more than 10,000 are without Scriptures.
iii) The United Bible Society has 74 translation projects in hand.
iv) Various Indian agencies are involved in Scripture translation projects – Indian Bible Translators (40), IEM (12), IET (5), FMPB, GFA, ORBIT (2).
v) The Indian Institute of Cross-Cultural Communication is one agency which provides training in linguistics for many agencies and helps to monitor progress in over 35 projects.
vi) There is a great need for modern, culturally appropriate translations in Urdu and many other languages.
c) Literature distribution. The prodigious growth of the writing, publishing and distributing of Christian literature has been a major factor in breaking down opposition to the gospel. EHC teams are in the process of giving literature out to most homes in India. By 2000, 500 million pieces of literature had been distributed with 6 million responses and the formation of 16,000 Christ Group fellowships. It is estimated that 300 million or more have been exposed to the gospel through teams distributing Scriptures. SGM dispatches around 5 million Scripture portions to India annually in 39 languages. GFA produces and distributes 50 million pieces of literature annually.
d) Christian publishing and bookstores. Publishers must contend with lack of local writing talent and high costs in a poor land, but many locally-produced books have been printed and sold in large numbers. The Evangelical Literature Fellowship of India is a major networking body for 23 agencies. Pray for the Gospel Literature Service in Mumbai (publishing books, tracts, etc.), the Evangelical Literature Service (CLC) with HQ in Chennai (40 full-time workers, 10 stores, 150 book titles in print), and OM Books (publishing and nation-wide distribution). Athmeeya Yatra of GFA has become one of the largest producers of literature in India. The Christian Booksellers Association was formed in 2000.
e) Bible Correspondence Courses sent out from over 70 centres. These have proved fruitful. The centre linked with TEAM has courses in 22 languages. The ICI (AoG) sends out courses in 11 languages, with two million having completed at least one course.
f) Cassette ministry is significant with over half the population functionally illiterate. GRN has increased their language recording range to 394 with at least 171 others targeted. World Cassette Outreach, People India and Hosanna as well as the Bible Society have large programmes for making audio-Scriptures available in all possible languages.
g) Christian medical work. The Christian Medical Association has oversight of 430 institutions with both Indian and expatriate medical workers. The Emmanuel Hospitals Association has responsibility for 22 hospitals originally started by foreign missions. Pray that the witness going out from these hospitals may lead many to seek the Saviour. Pray for the Evangelical Medical Fellowship of India and Evangelical Nurses Fellowship with groups in many hospitals. All over India the proportion of Christian medical workers is high; pray that many non-Christians may be won to Jesus through them.
h) Christian films and video are important:
i) A 200 hour TV series on the life of Christ had 70 million viewers until restrictions limited this. From this was developed Karanamaidu, the Indian film on Jesus, available in 21 main languages. Over 300 film teams are showing this film to powerful effect to 2-3 million annually.
ii) The JESUS film is available in 55 languages; 100,000 view it daily as 500 film teams move around the country. These teams need wisdom and protection in today’s India.
i) Christian radio and TV have won an enormous following among Christians and non-Christians. Pray for:
i) Programme producers – the pressure is great to make quality programmes and find talented, committed, native speakers. Some agencies involved: India Gospel Outreach, HBI, GFA, WEC-RW, Back to the Bible.
ii) Broadcasters – the major agencies: TWR (Irkutsk, Russia, Sri Lanka), FEBA (Seychelles) and FEBC (Manila) broadcast between them 200 hours/week in over 42 languages on both SW and MW frequencies, and increasingly on national and local radio too.
iii) The global inter-agency vision Radio by 2000 (see p.*) has gathered momentum for India: 5 languages have adequate programming, 17 need an increase in hours, 4 have an “urgent†and 14 a “probable†need for programming.
iv) The massive growth of the use of satellite TV and 75,000 Indian cable operators means TV is replacing radio. Pray that Christian agencies may adapt and exploit the possibilities of this expensive medium.
iv) Internet evangelism is becoming important as India rapidly ‘wires-up’. There were 1.4 million Internet users in 1999, but this is increasingly massively.
12 Indians in other lands number 22 million. There are large numbers who have emigrated to the Americas (USA 2.1m; Canada 715,000; Trinidad 517,000; Suriname 140,000), Europe (UK 1m), Africa (South Africa 1.1m; Mauritius 763,000; Kenya 210,000; Malawi 30,000), Pacific (Fiji 357,000; Australia 90,000), Asia (Malaysia 1.6m; Sri Lanka Tamil 3.2m; Myanmar 750,000; Singapore 271,000). A further one million are migrant workers in the Middle East. In some of these communities many have become Christians (probably 250,000) – as in South Africa, USA and Mauritius; in others there has been relatively little response. Pray that expatriate Indian Christians may be called as witnesses to their land of origin. Visas are easier for them to obtain.
Fanatic Christian Principal insults National anthem to approve Prayer on Jesus
http://www.haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.aspx?PageID=8147&SKIN=B
From the latest issue of “Covert”
The Crusade Behind Conversions
By P.N. Benjamin
Christians are thoroughly muddled over the business of conversion. They don’t want to quit this field of clover. However, think for a moment. Do they really want their Hindu and Muslim friends to join the churches? Listen in at their Pastorate Committee meetings. Quarrels over who is to be the next bishop, principal or secretary? What’s so wonderful about Christians that they should appeal to others to leave their traditions and come to Christian camps? Christians, who are neither fish, flesh nor good red herring? Do they really take the teachings of Christ seriously?
Christians’ morals are no better than others. Don’t they take and give bribes, tell lies like anyone else? As to violence, they don’t need to learn anything. They have in the past set fire to a bishop and his wife. The bishop survived and the wife died. That happened in the late 1970s. The bishop was none other than Bishop Anantha Rao Samuel who later became the Moderator of the Church of South India. I ask my Christian brethren: wasn’t there anything else we could burn — paper, cigarettes, fireworks?
What is more — Jesus was not a Christian. He was a Jew and he remained one. He did not found Christian religion. That was done by organisation-loving men. He showed the Christians a way, which was he himself. But he was a daredevil all right, and used pretty strong language when it came to telling the priests and leaders where to get off. He even called them “whited sepulchres†[isn’t that a lovely phrase?]. The Jews despised the Samaritans, somewhat like the way Dalits have been despised in our country for centuries or the Blacks in the US. But Jesus was always telling them stories about how much better as human beings the Samaritans were.
When the traveller fell among thieves the priest and the upper-castes passed him by, but the Dalit bound his wounds and took him to an inn. Ten lepers were healed. Only one returned to give thanks to God and he was a Dalit.
One day Jesus was found talking to a Dalit woman — a woman, believe it or not. Jews never spoke to women and even his disciples were shocked at his atrocious behaviour. Added to it, the woman had had five husbands. To top it all, he asked her for a drink of water. As bad as a Brahmin asking a Dalit in some parts of Tamil Nadu for water from an out-caste well. No wonder the priests wanted to do him in. They waited around corners to slosh him on the head. Finally, they got him crucified with two thieves.
No one can deny that genuine conversions do take place through the influence of one individual. A lovely Ca nadian girl came to India [Bangalore] on a Government of India scholarship to learn Bharatnatyam in the 1970s. Like so many of her generation she was an agnostic. She was U.S. Krishna Rao’s star pupil and made her debut in six months. One day she met Mother Teresa. She fell under her spell. She abandoned dance and donned the robes of a nun. “You are a born artiste. How dare you become a nun?†Krishna Rao raged in vain. She went to Kolkata and later to Mexico where she was working in a slum when we last heard about her. No one can quarrel with such a conversion. But when a well-organised body financed by foreign money begins to shift a whole herd of people from one caste to another, one begins to suspect their motives.
A brilliant Danish professor, Dr Kaaj Baago, in the United Theological College, Bangalore, made history when he said in the 1960s: “Hindus, Muslims and Buddhists should never give up their religion to join the Christian Church.†On the other hand, the Church should humble itself and find ways of identifying itself with other groups, taking Christ with them. Christ, he said, was not the chairman of the Christian party. If God is the Lord of the universe he will work through every culture and religion. We must give up the crusading spirit of the colonial era and stop singing weird hymns like “Onward Christian soldiers marching as to warâ€. This will lead to Hindu Christianity or Buddhist Christianity. It must involve the disappearance of the Indian Christian community, but he reminded us: “A grain of wheat remains a solitary grain unless it falls to the ground and dies.â€
Needless to say, Indian Christians were furious. He left the College, the Church and the mission and took refuge with the Danish Foreign Service. He later returned to India as his country’s Ambassador and died in harness in 1988.
One last story. About 150 years ago, the Church of England was sending out a very important Anglican Church dignitary as Metropolitan of Calcutta. The Brahmin priests got wind of it. This foreign religion might become a threat to their own traditions. They must investigate. So they sent one of their men to investigate. He wandered around the city till he came to the Bishop’s residence. It was a vast, sprawling opulent mansion. As he stood at the gate the great man walked down the steps, arrayed in his magnificent robes. He stepped into the waiting carriage drawn by two horses with a postillion sitting at the rear.
The spy returned to his friends. “Have no fears,†he said, “this is not a religion we need fear.†The priests were relieved, and rightly relieved, for the pomp and splendour of organised Christianity holds no appeal for any genuine seeker after truth [¼]
P.N. Benjamin is Coordinator, Bangalore Initiative for Religious Dialogue [BIRD]
http://www.covert.co.in/guest.htm
@sanjay
Nice inputs! How hollow and shallow they are. They are far from capturing Hinduism and real Hindus who knows the truth about “OM” “Krishna” and “Durga”.
I always tell them-Go to someone who is fool and dumb. No person with a brain will accept their attitude, culture on higher conscious.
@Jayadevan
They are all respected, surely they are not antisocial. They are the one who educate public on their faith and teach them how to look down upon other faiths.
We in India have learned to live peacefully, but are they ready to live peacfully with all religion? Big NO! Their violence is silent. We are not in fear that our people will get converted and keep thinking about what will happen then? Or They are harming us and hurting us so we should give fitting reply. No, not at all! We are not hurt, we are asking them to stop all this nonsense and act with high conscious. They not only go to poor and destiute public, they will keep knocking the door of every one even in big homes who seems rich and wealthy. More we rip them more they will come to their conscious, sooner or later. Big Hope! Its nothing against christianity but against those who are in the business of proselytise. And surely they will get hurt!
Jai Hind!
*** COMMENT EDITED ***
@Indian,
Jayadevan is a…Church-loving dinosaur who preaches deceptive propaganda to the Hindus and defends the Corpse-worshippers, at any cost.
Just ignore him –
*** NOTE by MODERATOR ***
@ Pratap: No personal insults please.
That’s fine whosoever one worship. I respect them at least they are worshipping something. Question is of preserving and respecting other’s faith, culture, tradition and roots of the country.
http://www.stephen-knapp.com/christian_terrorism_in_northeast_india.htm
Its not about India but Sri Lanka.
–Christian missionaries in Sri Lanka feel threatened by the proposed legislation. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/feb/12/embassy-row-3946580/
“Our missionaries only want to share the love of Christ with the people of Sri Lanka,” K.P. Yohannan, president of the missionary group, Gospel for Asia, told MNN. “They are not forcing anyone to change their faith.”—
Do they need to interfere with legislations of another country? Can they not spread the love of christ in the country with prohibition over conversion?
Well done Sri Lanka!
When I say… “I am a Christianâ€
I’m not shouting “I’m clean living..’â€
I’m whispering “I was lost,
Now I’m found and forgiven.â€
When I say… “I am a Christianâ€
I don’t speak of this with pride.
I’m confessing that I stumble
and need Christ to be my guide.
When I say… “I am a Christianâ€
I’m not trying to be strong.
I’m professing that I’m weak
And need His strength to carry on.
When I say…. “I am a Christianâ€
I’m not bragging of success.
I’m admitting I have failed
And need God to clean my mess.
When I say… “I am a Christianâ€
I’m not claiming to be perfect,
My flaws are far too visible
But, God believes I am worth it.
When I say… “I am a Christianâ€
I still feel the sting of pain.
I have my share of heartaches
So I call upon His name.
When I say… “I am a Christianâ€
I’m not holier than thou,
I’m just a simple sinner
Who received God’s good grace, somehow!
http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/Exnuns-confessions-set-to-rock-Kerala-Church/425407/
@ Indian,
Your thinking is dark. Are you so blind? You can’t distinguish the difference between individual’s actions and the teachings/tenets of a religious faith.
Indian,
Now wait for the reactions. This is the normal reaction to any scandal. All the other sects with pots as black as the current kettle will have a field day, the organization under fire will call out the spin doctors, and the issue will die down without having even a salutary effect on the truths brought out. It almost seems that all these people are acting in concert to stifle serious discussion.
The targeted community does the tortoise act and silences internal critics by pointing at the external critics. This is not the time for argument, they say, those people are attacking us. The time for argument never comes. This is not the first time exposure of a human rights issue has become an excuse for the most reactionary measures by the community leaders. Criticism by the other communities is used as an excuse for cover-ups and evasive action. And the learned friends in the other communities are only too happy to oblige. After all, all the priests are in the same business – that of exploiting us fools.
This is almost like friend Zia massing troops on the border to divert public attention from the HDW scandal. Rajiv got off, VP Singh resigned, and Zia came over to watch a cricket match.
And who cares for the poor women who suffer, whether for the lack of a meagre Rs.250/- monthly allowance (this is what the poor old lady, Shah Bano was asking for), whether from exploitation in monasteries or ashrams, whether sold into prostitution by poverty or religious custom?
@ Savita
“Your thinking is dark. Are you so blind? You can’t distinguish the difference between individual’s actions and the teachings/tenets of a religious faithâ€
Please allow Indian to buy your quote for future purpose so that he can also use it properly when in need.
Indian just placed the link and allowed the viewer to think on its own. He didn’t even said a single word to divert or subvert anybody’s view.
@ Jayadevan,
With great respect. I feel Jayadevan is able to predict the upcoming trend. His articles(Comments) inspires me to look through the problem with all the possible angle. Looking forward to have for healthy debate with him.
@ A CHRISTIAN
With full support to “A Christianâ€â€™s view.
We should come together against the people, who carry Symbol’s in one hand and book into the other, and are just trying to increase soul count (like a bank account). And let them know this is not what Christianity stands for.
Christianity stands for Peace and Respect to others view also. Isn’t it?
(HOLY) SEXUAL RECORDS
http://www.rickross.com/groups/clergy.html
Church in Kerala is rocked by sex scandals
http://www.rediff.com/news/1999/dec/01iype.htm
More details here
Amen – Autobiography of a Nun, by Sister Jesme, alleges sexual abuse and corruption in Kerala’s Catholic Church
http://www.dancewithshadows.com/politics/amen-autobiography-of-a-nun-sister-jesme/
Yes, without any malice toward “Christian” I placed the link.
@Savita, this is for you!
I do not fear dark because I am the light!
I do not fear fall because I am the force!
I do not fear storm because I am the ocean!
I do not fear ghost because I am the Shiva!
I do not fear thunder because I am the clouds!
I do not fear lost because I am the nature!
I do not fear failure because I am the truth!
I do not fear past, present and future because I am the believer!
I do not fear religions because I am the Bible, Gita and Quran!
-If your heart is not black as coal than can you please repeat the last line here in writing? Lets see who is at dark side!
@Christian
There are various path to reach the God. If someone says you only get salvation if you believe in christianity than it is propaganda. Fight for it! Show your true colour of Humanity!
“Dharmo Rakshati Rakshita”
*** COMMENT MODERATED ***
@ Indian,
What do you mean ‘I am Shiva’? Are you?
What do you mean ‘I am force’? Are you?
What do you mean ‘I am Ocean’? Are you?
Especially ‘I am the truth’? Do you know what it means?
Stop writing meaningless statements that don’t apply to you. Do you even know 1% of Bible, Gita and Quran? And don’t think that just by writing anything it becomes so.
*** NOTE by MODERATOR ***
@ Savita: Thanks for joining the debate but please avoid personal insult/abuse. Thanks.
@Savita
You cannot write atleast one line which I asked you and shout a lot. Because it doesnot apply to you as you are the one of who hate religions other than yours. You cannot understand what is Shiva, force and ocean. It needs higher conscious and undersatnding! That 1% typically stands for you!
Tribal groups have been part of marginalized populations throughout the world. In America, the White Settlers committed several native American genocides. In fact until 1824, killing of American Indians was not a crime. As the saying goes “the only good Indian is a dead Indian.†According to Ward Churchill, a professor of ethnic studies at the University of Colorado, the reduction of the North American Indian population from an estimated 12 million in 1500 to barely 237,000 in 1900 represents a “vast genocide . . . , the most sustained on record.” However the Right Wing Christian apologists claim it was a case of divine providence; that it was a natural genocide through smallpox and plague which to which the natives were pathologically vulnerable with no group immunity.
In Australia, native aboriginal children were forcibly removed from the breasts of their crying mothers through acts of parliament, all in the great cause of establishing ‘white supremacy.’ ‘Stolen generations’ is the epithet referring to these children, a process which continued even until 1970. Similarly, Jesus can replace Hanuman only by reducing the latter to an object of hate through unethical missionary propaganda. This creates social tension and separate identities, and eventually consummates in violence like in Kandhamal where the converted Panis and Hindu Kandhas are locked up in an internecine struggle.
Moreover, the so called Hindu missionaries were previously absent, and they have arrived only to resist the draconian mass conversion drives of the missionaries and Maoists and in this process many of them have to sacrifice their lives like Laxmananda Saraswati. If the secularist would actually believe a tribal is better off without their presence, then it is not the Hindu, but the Christian and Maoists who would refuse to leave bound as they are to their ideological ‘bread and butter’. Hence, no parallel can be drawn between a Hindu missionary and a Missionary or Maoist.
Hindu missionaries are anyway most disadvantaged of the lot. The Christian missions are receiving millions of dollars from Western Church-based groups to harvest Hindu souls. The Project Joshua plans to Christianize the heathens whom they classify “unreached people†by the turn of the century. 23 Are we to believe that Project Joshua was spending billions of dollars out of overflowing love for scheduled castes and tribal people? Whom is it fooling? Secondly, Christians being a minority they can claim additional privileges through article 29-30 like operating their own educational institutions which were indicted by the Niyogi Commission Report to be active agents of conversion. Also, Hindu converts to Christianity rarely register themselves as Christians during census because that would mean termination of their Scheduled Caste affirmative action/reservation benefits.
Hinduism has no founder, no single Prophet and no peremptory central dogma. It is an assimilative religion which does not discriminate between believers and unbelievers. It is the religion which not only tolerates incompatible belief systems but willingly accepts them. It is the only religion apart from Judaism which does not desire conversion of alien faiths and cultures to its own way of life, and thereby eschews from fanatical exclusivist ideas. Multiculturalism or respect for diversities is rooted in its historical consciousness.
Hinduism has no founder, no single Prophet and no peremptory central dogma. It is an assimilative religion which does not discriminate between believers and unbelievers. It is the religion which not only tolerates incompatible belief systems but willingly accepts them. It is the only religion apart from Judaism which does not desire conversion of alien faiths and cultures to its own way of life, and thereby eschews from fanatical exclusivist ideas. Multiculturalism or respect for diversities is rooted in its historical consciousness.
Hinduism has no founder, no single Prophet and no peremptory central dogma. It is an assimilative religion which does not discriminate between believers and unbelievers. It is the religion which not only tolerates incompatible belief systems but willingly accepts them. It is the only religion apart from Judaism which does not desire conversion of alien faiths and cultures to its own way of life, and thereby eschews from fanatical exclusivist ideas. Multiculturalism or respect for diversities is rooted in its historical consciousness.
http://www.boloji.com/analysis2/0395.htm
Poor Christian Liberation Movement (PCLM)
http://www.Dalitchristian.org
PRESS RELEASE
Christian Taliban’s and Inter Religious Dialogue in India
New Delhi, March 12, 2009: Of late the Church in India is stressing on inter religious dialogue. While this step by the Church in India looks innocence but it is full of dangerous pitfalls and is a ploy to divert the attention of other religious communities from the actual issues of conversion.
The Catholic Church is organizing a meeting on inter religious dialogue at Mumbai to discuss how to proceed in this matter. The moot question is who are the people behind this move? Little probe would reveal that fanatic Christian Taliban type leaders like Dr. John Dayal , Dr. Joseph D’Souza, Mr. Sajan George, Rev. Fr. Dominic Emmanuel, Rev.K.P.Yohannan and others have been spreading lot of false information about Hindus that they are “violent people†and that there is no “ salvation outside the Christianityâ€.
If there is no Moksha or “salvation†for the followers of other religions and only Christianity is the way of salvation through the organized church then the question arises why the inter religious dialogue ? “Inter religious dialogue must be with open mind and without hidden agenda†pleads Mr. P B. Lomeo, a ‘Christian journalist’ of long standing and member National Governing Board of PCLM. This view is also supported by R.L. Francis, President of Poor Christian Liberation Movement (PCLM).
Human rights activists and writer Joseph Gathia when contacted to respond on the inter religious dialogue stated that in an era of globalization and identity conflict peaceful coexistence of all religion is the only way out. Mr. Gathia further mentioned that “Indian culture is assimilating and people of all faiths are living here hence any effort of inter religious dialogue must be free from ulterior motivesâ€
For inter religious dialogue one needs to practice living with the Hindu , Muslim and Sikh brethren and stop poaching the “souls†from these religion. But the fact remains that Christian Taliban type leaders in India are engaged in converting Hindus, Sikhs (in Punjab and Chattisgarh) and Muslims (in Kashmir) and Buddhist (in Leh –Laddakh).
For real inter religious dialogue “hidden agenda activities “would have to be stopped. Next, to create atmosphere of respect for all religion the Christian educational institutions ought to give admission to Muslims children, children of non -Christian tribals and Hindu Dalits. Are they ready for it? Can Christian Taliban’s really enter into a inter-religious dialogue?
R.L.Francis
President – PCLM
I will make one closing remark (from my side) on this issue – I do hope that the entire hindutva brigade draws the right conclusion from the BJD – BJP split in Orissa, which they failed to do post Gujarat.
While many of us prefer the BJP to the Congress as a national party, we will *not* tolerate any extra-constitutional vigilante actions by the Sangh Parivar, especially such heinous attacks on the poor and the weak.
I do hope that all BJP supporters now realise that the BJP has no hope of forming the next national government, and the VHP/Bajrang Dal actions in Orissa and Karnataka are solely to blame for this. I do hope that the BJP asks Ashok Singhal to account for his threats to Naveen Patnaik, one of the most professional chief ministers in the country.
Thanks
*** COMMENT EDITED ***
FYI.
*** NOTE by MODERATOR ***
Bharat: Thanks for the link and article…Perhaps you missed this latest post.
Check this piece of news….
http://www.daijiworld.com/news/news_disp.asp?n_id=57924
http://news.rediff.com/report/2009/mar/19/rss-leader-killed-in-orissa.htm
http://www.organiser.org/dynamic/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=282&page=42
As per the latest information, the evangelists are happy with the dissolution of the coalition, which they really wanted. Archbishop Raphael Cheenath in an interview with a news agency on 9.3.09 said that they are happy on the break-up of the BJP-BJD alliance as it was a security concern for missionaries. He is right—missionaries and Maoists know it well that Naveen is not at all a problem for them, but Naveen with BJP is the greatest hurdle in their proselytisation drive, social unrest and terror in Orissa. How can they forget their most trusted, time-tested and helpful friend Naveen and his Guru by whose grace the evangelical empire and Red corridor are going to be established? On the other hand, VN Murali, general secretary of Pukasa of Kerala, in his statement made it clear that Naveen is the blue-eyed boy of the Church and evangelists will render their full support to him in the polls. What a beautiful match, which makes Naveen Patnaik soft and caring towards evangelists.
Naveen chose another Christian IPS officer, Suchit Das as the DGP of the state. The BJP had vehemently opposed it putting a question mark on Das’s integrity. But Naveen did not pay heed to BJP’ opposition. It is an open secret that a super CM runs the government activities and Naveen acts as a rubber stamp. This de facto super CM, the Guru of Naveen, has reportedly good connections with Maoists. Maoist leader Sabyasachi Panda is the son of a BJD leader, namely Ramesh Panda of Nayagarh. Shri Panda is said to be close to Naveen’s Guru as both worked for Communist Party. Sabyasachi Panda being a son of a BJD leader is allegedly not arrested though many serious cognizable cases are pending against him including the ammunition loot case of Nayagarh in 2008 and Swami Laxmanananda murder case. In Swamiji’s murder case, Sabyasachi took the responsibility of the murder in order to save Christian leader and Congress MP Radhakanta Nayak (Organiser, February 15, 2009, p 18). It is another fact that after Swamiji’s brutal assassination, the Hindu people and their leaders were not permitted to enter the Kandhamal district but no such restrictions were imposed on Communists and Christian. They could move freely throughout the district. Archbishop Raphael Cheenath was permitted to visit Kandhamal but VHP leader Shri Shyam Gupta and others including BJP MP Jual Oram were not allowed to visit Swamiji’s ashram. Another fact that puts a question mark on Naveen’s impartiality is the transfer case of an IAS officer Maneesh Verma, the former collector of Kandhamal. Shri Verma was appointed as the Collector of Kandhamal after December 24, 2007. He proved his excellence as a worthy Collector and as an honest officer. He took steps to verify false ST caste certificates obtained by Christians and also strictly implemented anti-conversion laws in the district for which Shri Verma was suddenly withdrawn from Kandhamal and posted in an unimportant post. What a good reward for an honest administrator!
Dear Shantanu,
Please see Crusade Watch.org and the truth of Christian Evangalisation and the activities of “World Vision” is explained in detail.
Regards,
vck
@ vck, thanks for the link. Also link given by borneveryday in one of the above comment must not go unnoticed. Please all read it.
http://publication.samachar.com/pub_article.php?id=3939380
Crisis of faith at Teresa’s missionary?
Monideepa Banerjie
Saturday, March 28, 2009, (Kolkata)
Sister Mary Prema, the new head of Mother Teresa’s Missionaries of Charity has admitted that the number of people joining the order has fallen worldwide.
Sister Prema was elected Superior General on Tuesday after her predecessor Sister Nirmala declined the job because of ill health.
“From the time I have come to Mother House, I see that still we have many vocations but the number has come down,” said Sister Prema.
No numbers available, but Sister Prema, now heading 766 homes and 4950 sisters, denied numbers were falling because of the absence of the charismatic Mother Teresa.
“I do not think that because Mother is still there,” said Sister Prema.
The German-born sister joined Missionaries in 1980 and came to Kolkata in 2001. If not in as many words, she has certainly set out her main task ahead – drawing the young back into the fold of the Missionaries of Charity in bigger numbers.
Brief excerpt from Missionaries are Colonialists by Gregory F. Fegel
…Modern medical and nursing schools usually teach their students the moral principle that the provision of medical services should never be used as a means to proselytize or promote a religion, but that does not deter many Christian health care providers from doing exactly that. Most of the medical and charitable organizations based in Christian countries are fronts for Christian proselytizing activities.
One of the largest international medical relief organizations based in the USA, Northwest Medical Teams, states in their recruitment brochure that their chief ‘mission’ is to ‘spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ’, that their medical relief services are subordinate to their stated goal of proselytizing Christianity, and that their medical relief work is merely an ‘aegis’, or facade, for spreading Christianity….
Medical services and …also there is Engineers for christ.
List goes on, Yoga by christian perspective, Aaurveda with christ perspectives (specifically they will mention in the book, not with the perspective of occultism practiced in India).
Oh jesus! What comfort they might be finding by adding your name in everything. May be Jesus too by now tired of this people and askng for break.
I know Jesus you are very kind to everyone disregard of their faith. Right! Hope your children understand this!
Poor Christian Liberation Movement (PCLM)
Office:- IIIA/145, Rachana, Vashali – 201010 (NCR) India
Telefax 0120, 4569131 Cell. 9810108046
Email:-francispclm@yahoo.com
PRESS RELEASE
On the eve of Good Friday
Christian urges Church to propagate message of Love
New Delhi, April 9, 2009: All over the world Christians remember Jesus Christ for message of love and forgiveness on the Good Friday but the Church in India is using language of hate and division during the current Lok Sabha election time, acceding to a press release by the Poor Christian Liberation Movement (PCLM).
The PCLM has noted that certain bishops are falsely propogating that Christians in Orissa are not safe therefore the elections there should be postponed. The PCLM differs from such assessment and feels that the Christian churches are creating ill feeling against one particular community and a political party. Such a move is dangerous as it divides the Indian community. Mr. R L Francis, the president of PCLM stressed that some people are falsely propogating such things for their own benefit.
The PCLM urges that the Election Commission should call for an explanation from the Archbishop of Cuttack- Bhubaneswar. Rt. Rev Raphael Cheenath as to why he is propagating in foreign countries that the elections in Kandhamal Orissa should be postponed. The PCLM will also be drawing the attention of Smt. Sonia Gandhi, Congress President, Shri Rajnath Singh, president BJP and other political parties to raise this issue before the Election Commisiosn.
R.L.Francis
President – PCLM
I don’t understand these PCLM types. It’s old “dalit Christian” morphed organization I guess. Today I have seen this Francis guy posting this message on every India/Hindu-centric blog. Reading their web site ( http://dalitchristian.org/news.htm ) I gather they have been undergoing “spiritually humiliating experience”. If that’s the case why can’t they just reconvert back to Hinduism or Jainism or Buddhism. As long as it’s not one of the 2 semitic faiths ( religion of LOVE and that of PEACE ) they should be OK. I guess they have a bigger agenda.
Can someone from PCLM answer?
@kiran P
I agree!
Extracts from Conversions: Faith in the closet by Shreerang Godbole
…
Post-Kandhamal, post-Mangalore, the issue of conversions has taken centre-stage. “Christians are a persecuted, hapless minorityâ€; “How can a minority that accounts for less than 2.5% of the population pose a threat to the 84% Hindus of the country?†is the general refrain. “If Christian missionaries had been indulging in large-scale conversions, how has the Christian percentage remained virtually static in the last two censuses†is the seemingly compelling argument.
The Christian percentage that stood at 2.32 in the 1991 census was virtually static at 2.35 in Census 2001. In fact, a state like Andhra Pradesh presents a strange phenomenon in religious demography. Since 1971, there has been a steady decline in the share of Christian population in the state.
…
Yet Hindu organizations routinely allege that Andhra Pradesh has emerged as a hotbed of Christian activities. The annual report of the Ministry of Home Affairs, March 2007, lends credence to Hindu apprehensions. According to the report, for the year 2005-2006, three metropolitan cities namely Chennai (Rs. 7530.83 million), Bangalore (Rs. 4640.97 million) and Mumbai (Rs. 4400.47 million) reported the highest district-wise receipt of foreign contribution in the country.
Next in line are two districts in Andhra Pradesh – Ananthapur (Rs. 2880.11 million) and Hyderabad-Secunderabad (Rs. 2360.84 million). In the last four decades, Andhra Pradesh has consistently been one of the top three states to receive such mind-boggling foreign aid.
A couple of years ago, Christian organizations had become bold enough to swarm the seven hills of Lord Venkateshwara to hawk their creed, but had to beat a retreat when Hindu society launched a staunch protest.
Outside of the north-east, Andhra Pradesh is the only state in India to have a Christian Chief Minister. How does one explain the curious paradox of an apparent spurt in conversion activities and a static, sometimes even declining Christian share in the population?
The answer becomes obvious when one takes the trouble of studying Christian strategy and statistics – statistics provided by authoritative mission documents.
…The Center for the Study of Global Christianity, at the Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, South Hamilton, Massachusetts, brings out the World Christian Encyclopedia (Oxford University Press, 1982; 2d ed., 2001) and World Christian Trends (William Carey Library, 2001).
…The 2001 report states that of the estimated 1.88 billion professing Christians worldwide, an estimated 124 million or 6.2% are crypto-Christians or those who conceal their faith.
…
Crypto-Christians are numerous in places where Christianity gets a taste of the maltreatment it usually metes out to others. Thus, Chinese law requires all churches to be registered with government-run Christian associations. Members of so-called underground churches are imprisoned, ‘re-educated,’ and sometimes executed.
China’s official census enumerates 10 million Protestants and 4 million Roman Catholics. But reliable estimates place the actual number of Protestants in China at 39 million and that of Roman Catholics at 14 million.
…The existence, indeed proliferation, of crypto-Christians in India is a fact acknowledged by the Church. The World Christian Trends (2001) has placed the number of persons affiliated to the Church in India at 62,243,546 or 6.1%. In short, the number of Christians in India is nearly thrice the official census figure! The document places the share of crypto-Christians in the total Christian population at a staggering 62%!
…In 2002, the American mission agency Global Mapping International asked Patrick Johnstone, author of Operation World, a prayer handbook which documents demographics and mission activity in many countries, to list the seven most encouraging trends of the 1990’s. “The astonishing and mostly undocumented growth of the church in India – the official numbers (2.34% Christians in 1991) are far lower than the truth, deliberately hiding the true extent of Christianity in the nation. The true figures are certainly far more than double, and look like only the beginning. The ‘untouchable’ Dalits have started leaving Hinduism, which could lead to an immense growth of Indian churches†was Johnstone’s gleeful reply.
…
So why do so many Christians in India conceal their faith, given that the rulers are Christian-friendly?
The present Constitutional provision that limits the benefits available to Scheduled Castes only to Hindus (including Sikhs and Buddhists) is a major hurdle. This has created a peculiar breed of Christians with dual identity. They attend the Church but are identified by their Hindu names and castes in the Government records.
…No wonder Christian leaders are vigorously demanding continuation of benefits to Scheduled Castes even after conversion. Not so long ago, Church leaders heaped abuse on the institution of caste, calling it a strictly Hindu phenomenon and claimed that conversion to Christianity would ensure social equality. That argument is passé.
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just as we are trying to understand and estimte as what may be universe’s end etcetc without having facts as of now
our ancestors of all religions had also estimated with abandon with poetic justice all fables stories but entwined them with moral codes for public and hence the fables are still living
we have to take tham with a pinch of salt
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@ Ganesh: Off-topic comment.
Pl. stick to the topic at hand. If you cannot find the topic/post you are looking for, please use the “Search” box or the “Categories” drop down menu.
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http://www.ivarta.com/redirect.aspx?redirect=http%3a%2f%2fwww.newstodaynet.com%2fcol.php%3fsection%3d20%26catid%3d33%26id%3d16509
By V. Sundaram
The following is the summary of the data I have collected from the GO Portal:
1. The GO portal is active only from February 2008, hence the data I have given relates only to 1 year (i.e., Feb 2008 to Jan 2009). An amount of 263.07 lakh has been shown as aid given to Christian institutions. This amount is the minimum spent on them, not the maximum.2. More than 258 churches benefited from these grants for construction/renovation of churches.3. An amount of 1316.54 lakh was given as aid to various Muslim institutions through Wakf boards. 4. Not a single GO granting any aid to a Hindu temple can be found. This in spite of the fact that in AP, the Hindu temples are managed by the Endowments Ministry (put it simply they take all the money which the temples generate and divert it for the benefit of only the Christians and the Muslims). 5. Govt takes away all the money which Hindu temples generate, but do not grant a single penny to any of its temples. It does not touch the money from Christian and Muslim institutions, but grants them huge amounts of money collected from Hindu temples.
There is the well established communal practice of over Rs.35,000 subsidy to Muslims for their pilgrimage to Mecca. No such subsidies are given to Hindus. On the other hand, Hindu devotees are required to buy tickets, make payments to see their god in the temples; they don’t get any subsidy for their pilgrimage to their holy places like Tirupati, Amaranth, Kasi, Somnath, Ujjain, Guruvaur, Manasarovar etc.C. A grant of Rs 15,000 grant is made to Muslims and Christians when they get married. No such financial assistance is given to the Hindus from the coffers of the government.D. Now the GOAP is celebrating at its expense SEEMANTHAM of Christian and Muslim couples onlyE. GOAP is implementing 4 per cent reservation for Muslims simply because they happen to be Muslims for admissions to professional colleges. Muslims are running many professional colleges for engineering, medicine, MBA, BCA, Dentistry, etc. This 4% reservation has been contested in the Courts and despite the Court adversely commenting on the grant of this concession; the GOAP is implementing this reservation scheme. Y Samuel Rajasekhara Reddy is waiting for the correct political moment to extend this concession to the Christians as well.
Shocking…I will be digging deeper into this…
Thanks for the link Indian.
i am a missionary and will die as a missionary.I will preach the good news of christ not because some foreign guys give me bucks but i read the bible and i am a strong believer of it.Bible teaches that Jesus is the only way of Salvation.If that is true then my friend who is a Hindu or a Muslim or a christian who is not saved will go to Hell.It is this noble ambition that makes a true disciple of christ.You may dub me as something wrong with my beliefs.But my argument is that what if the assumption be correct and wont you do it if u believe it is correct
Dear Jason,
Yes, I fully agree with your sentiments. You have the right to believe in what you do; it is called “belief”.
Some people believe that there is rebirth. Some believe that doing prayers to their forefathers will benefit them; some believe that perambulating a place of worship will give them salvation; some believe that chanting gives them peace;
“Belief” in their way of life is what keeps the world going round. “Belief” in the world of science makes the scientist perform activities and further studies to make a success of what he thinks is right.
Each one to his “belief”. There is no right and wrong “belief” it is what “You believe in”.
Enjoy being a missionary and I applaud you for your convictions. In the same breath “Give is our daily belief” and “Forgive us our trespasses”; We can make it together.
One is not right and the other is not wrong; Believe in it!
Regards, vck
@Jason. Do beliefs justify actions? Would you be as tolerant of a Jihadist who thinks that killing Chistians will send him straight to Allah’s heaven? Would you tolerate another religion seeking to convert Christians to it? And if not, why do expect Hindus to tolerate the activities of missionaries?
And isn’t one of the central teachings of the Church the golden rule i.e. Do onto others as you would have them do onto you. Can missionary activity be justified by this golden rule?
“my argument is what if the assumption were true” Don’t we need to prove an assumption before we act on it.
Here is the fundamental difference between Hinduism and the Abrahamic religions. In Hinduism, dharma is not determined by belief whereas in Christianity and Islam it is.
@VCK. “there is no right or wrong belief”. Actually there is. A belief is a judgement made prior to having knowledge, and is subject to change upon verification. Thus if verification shows that the belief is mistaken–it is a wrong belief.
As far as religions go, the litmus test should be how anti-humanity they are and how intolerant they are of others points of view. Thus religions which seek to either participate in cultural or actual genocide need to be judged more harshly than those that merely exist to provide their followers with some sense of identity and security.
And before we start criticizing those Hindutva groups, let us be honest enough to recognize that Hindutva as an ideology is a product of the nineteenth and twentieth century and its origins can actually be traced back to the cultural and political hegemony that Hindus lived under during the Muslim and British rule. What is surprising is not that Hindutva arose–what is so surprising is that it took a thousand years to do so.
Jason, Replace Jesus with Allah and Bible with Koran and an Islamist believes exactly same as yours ditto word for word. Add to this the jews who believe in Torah who are still waiting for the “son of God” to appear on the scene or something like that.
What do you think about all this? Do you see the problem?
@Jason. Would you be as tolerant of other’s beliefs if it led to destructive activities? Every Jihadist believes that he is going to Allah’s heaven if he kills non-believers? Would be as tolerant of his beliefs as you expect Hindus to be of yours? If the Hare Krishna’s, who believe that only Krishna is the true God, were to start massive missionary activity in predominantly Christian areas, would you expect Christians to tolerate this? And is this really the teaching of Jesus? Did he not talk of the Golden rule–do onto others as you would have them do onto you? Yet no missionary follows this.
Your assumption is that your assumption is correct–but you have no proof. Yet, it is perfectly acceptable to you to participate in what is technically cultural genocide of Hindus in India. That is inherently the difference between Hinduism and Christianity. What is dharma can be independently established, even without recourse to religious doctrine. And what is dharma is always universal for a specific time and place.
@Jason.
—–i am a missionary and will die as a missionary—.
I am a Hindu and will die as a Hindu. Allow me to say.
—–I will preach the good news of christ not because some foreign guys give me bucks but i read the bible and i am a strong believer of it—.
My religion does not allow selling of my religion for few bucks, though I am strong believer of Hinduism. I will never indulge in prosyletise business as it is sin. Can you take this Oath?
—-Bible teaches that Jesus is the only way of Salvation.If that is true then my friend who is a Hindu or a Muslim or a christian who is not saved will go to Hell—.
What era are you living in? Who believes in man made stories of heaven and hell? Definitely those who have no understanding of universe, and only interested in increasing the numbers of christians. My say ‘go to fool and dumb with this kind of stories.
—–It is this noble ambition that makes a true disciple of christ—.
The same, one can be true disciple of Hinduism. Whats the problem?
—-You may dub me as something wrong with my beliefs.But my argument is that what if the assumption be correct and wont you do it if u believe it is correct—
My say ‘live and let others live’. Every one has right to say good about their religion but not for conversions.
It now seems that the Kandhamal riots were as exaggerated as the Gujarat ones.
What is really dangerous is the way religions who value martyrdom manage to play the eternal victim on the media. This is ultimately what destroys true dialogue.
*** Comment Moved Here ***
Please share your thoughts on the Elections 2009 Open Thread.
@ Patriot: Thanks for starting the discussion.
Shantanu
Please give wide coverage this
Exposed – Mumbai Arch Bishop’s Blatant Lie
http://www.haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.aspx?PageID=8801&SKIN=B
HH Swami Jayendra Saraswati Ji
stop converting Hindus; stop USCIRF
http://www.vijayvaani.com/FrmPublicDisplayArticle.aspx?id=633
Swami Devananda Sarawathi;s article in the same issue
http://www.vijayvaani.com/FrmPublicDisplayArticle.aspx?id=628
His web site , a huge one. He is a Canadian , settled in Tamil Nadu.
http://hamsa.org/
http://worldminoritiesforum.blogspot.com/
Extracts from the posting by Carl Belle Vadivelu
“Let me quote something that was stated during a recent election campaign. “I want you to go out and find places where Satan has his strongholds: mosques, Hindu temples, Buddhist temples, bottleshops, and Casinos, and destroy these places. We want a Christian Australia.” Guess who said this? Pastor Danny Nelliah, a Tamil migrant from Sri Lanka, a leader of the Pentecostalist group Catch the Fire Ministry, and a Senate candidate for the Pentecostalist front Family First Party. And this is the most likely area where Hindus, Sikhs, Muslims, Buddhist and Jews have to fear organized hatred”
Next extract.
“In 1983, after I had taken my third kavadi in Malaysia, I received a letter from a Christian group in Perth.This group accused me of betraying my Christian upbringing and told me that I would go to hell. I guess, I was stupid; I responded, I was already in hell; I was working in Canberra. The letters continued, until I finally got one which was openly threatening – it stated that the writers knew where I worked, they knew were my wife worked, they knew where my children went to school, and they had friends who would deal with me. When I took this letter to the Canberra police, they police traced the letter down to an Assemblies of God church in Fremantle (Perth). The pastor of this church was from the subcontinent.”
Naipaul was right when he wrote in Among the Believers ” A convert rejects his origins by impulse”
http://www.vijayvaani.com/FrmPublicDisplayArticle.aspx?id=624
Extract from the above article
Little lion-hearted Lanka leads by example once again. It was the first nation in the post-Second World War era to elect a woman prime minister; then it became the first nation to spurn ineffective external intermediaries in a fratricidal war and launch a concerted armed effort to end violent secessionism once and for all.
Now, the island’s Buddhist religious leadership has risen to redeem the Indic tradition by repudiating inter-faith dialogue and demanding national legislation against conversions. India would do well to take a leaf out of Colombo’s book, given the mischief Christian colonial powers are wreaking in our neighbourhood: Myanmar, Nepal, Tibet, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, and of course, Iraq.
Sri Lanka’s Joint Committee of Buddhist Organizations (JCBO) wants reintroduction of the stalled Bill on Prohibition of Forcible Conversion of Religion (L.D.O./INC/7/2004). This is being criticised by Christian bodies, and 24 mainline Christian leaders, including 18 Catholic Bishops and retired Bishops, the Anglican Bishop of Colombo, Baptist Sangamaya, Presbyterian Church and Salvation Army have appealed to parliamentarians against
Qn. no. 6 from RACISM AWARENESS CONTEST
@ http://victimofprejudice.blogspot.com/
6. On 911 a great Yogi from India addressed Christian missionaries in Chicago
“We who had come from the east have sat here day after day and have been told in a patronizing way that we ought to accept Christianity because Christian nations are the most prosperous. We look about us and we see England the most prosperous Christian nation in the world, with her foot upon the neck of 250,000,000 Asiatics. We look back into history and see that the prosperity of Christian Europe begin with Spain. Spain’s prosperity began with the invasion of Mexico. Christianity wins its prosperity by cutting the throats of its fellow men. At such a price the Hindu will not have prosperity. They come to my country and abuse my forefathers, my religion, and everything; they walk near a temple and say ‘you idolators, you will go to hell’, but they dare not do this to the Mohammedans of India, for the sword will be out, but the Hindu is too mild. And may I ask you, Europeans, what country you have ever raised to better conditions? Wherever you have found weaker races, you have exterminated them by the roots, as it were. You have settled on their lands, and they are gone for ever. What is the history of your America, your Australia, and New Zealand, your Pacific Islands and South Africa? Where are the aboriginal races there today? They have all been exterminated, you have killed them outright, as if they were wild beasts”
Who was this great Yogi?
For previous questions please visit:
RACISM AWARENESS CONTEST @ http://victimofprejudice.blogspot.com/
May be relevant – a news item, a letter and some comments
http://www.whyichosesikhism.com/?p=know&s=news
http://www.whyichosesikhism.com/?p=know&s=letter
http://www.whyichosesikhism.com/?p=know&s=10secrets
Gun Point Conversions by Christian Terrorists
http://www.haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.aspx?PageID=8848&SKIN=C
Original link
http://www.assamtribune.com/scripts/details.asp?id=jun2309/State3
Within a few months of elections, the UPA attempt to marginalize Hindus and threaten them in their own land has started. Here is an article on how UPA is being told to repeal anti-conversion laws by the Christians.
http://in.christiantoday.com/articles/anti-conversion-laws-to-be-repealed-by-new-govt/4082.htm
Let there be no doubt that Hindus will lose their homeland if they don’t act.
Harapriya, Comment by Suhas on Sri Lanka seems to be opposite of India.
73 post of Jayendra Saraswathi is not referred anywhere in this article by Sudheendra Kulkarni , who has been described as mole by some web sites.
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/a-positive-hinduvatican-dialogue/476103/
Though not related to the earlier post, if diversion granted, read Lord Meghnand Desai’s post in the web site indicated in 82. Very interesting remark about love for horses by Nehru.
It is in here.
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/the-rahul-gandhi-gamble/443213/
Dancing Jesus in The New Indian Bible.
http://vivekajyoti.blogspot.com/2009/07/dancing-jesus-in-new-indian-bible.html
250 years old temple paintings destroyed by the Tamil Nadu Government:
http://vivekajyoti.blogspot.com/2009/07/250-years-old-temple-paintings.html
http://www.hamsa.org
is another web site. Please go into this and see the article on
“Atma Jyoti Ashram: Christian Priests Uncloaked” by Swami Devananda Saraswati
There are photographs there. The central character looks like a clown.
The Dancing Jesus article is also there.
They did the same to the Jews from 6th century to WWII. Chased them all over the world and finally there was the great moral victory for the Jews in 1945. There may be problems with them, but the game of forcible conversion became slow. Now recently they had an agreement with the recent Pope that thou shall not convert Jews. Looking out for proper reference for this news.
Indians must read this aspect of history to know all things.
I was in Ramana Ashram and TMalai last year, but I failed to come across these characters, the pictures of the faux pax Swamis posted in #85. They really look overfed, especially one of them, looks more like a food taster than a spiritual master. This fellow must enrol in some reality TV show to reduce his body flab. This is surely desperado spiritualism. All tricks are being tried. Very stupid and foolish enterprise.
Please check this video and let me know YOUR TRUE BASE OF RELIGION
not on EMOTIONS please BUT ON FACTS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRGY9I34nTo
try to listen to all the parts of VIDEO …
and then TRY TO TALK ABOUT ANYTHING ………
I CAN PROVE WITH FACTS ….. Read all VEDAS you would ONE GOD WHOSE NAME IS MENTIONED that is
PURUHSA PRAJA PATHI
PURUSHA – MAN
PRAJA – PEOPLE
PATHI – WINNER
Learn about his CHARACTERS of PURUSHA PRAJA PATHI
om sri brahma putraya namaha : praise the one who is called as son of God
om sri kanni sudhaya namaha : praise who is born of virgin
pancha kaya namaha : one who has 5 wounds praise him
RELATE THIS TO ANY ONE 333 crores .. NO ANSWER
only PURUSHA PRAJA PATHI ? answer me who is this
Church news about mining investment in India.
2005 news about Roman Catholic Church , corporate analysis
Read the following person’s work listed in wikipedia
It is really amazing. The law wants to go after Indians like Amitabh Bachchan for owning farmland; yet allows a church whose only loyalty is to a foreign entity (the vatican) is allowed to own so much land. We are setting ourselves up for another partition.
What is really interesting about this Vedanta corporation which wants to destroy the hill that the tribals consider holy, is that in addition to having the church of england as a major stakeholder (hmm! I wonder why it is so keen to destroy the hill), it also had our P.Chidambaram on the board of directors of the company. I thought that Ministers could not be on the board of directors for private firms since that would be an obvious conflict of interest–but in India either no such law exists or if it does, is not enforced.
Here is another one about that Vedanta corp acquiring more land. More land for the the church?
http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/story.aspx?Title=Vedanta+University+gets+Orissa+assembly+nod&artid=EUDmyUJcd64=&SectionID=mvKkT3vj5ZA=&MainSectionID=mvKkT3vj5ZA=&SEO=orissa,+vedanta,+university&SectionName=nUFeEOBkuKw=
In India , you can do anything. Please verify and write whether , a public servant can write novels like Q&A and then allow it to mutate to Slum Dog millionaire. The Deputy Ambasssador in SA now on promostion in Japan , just wrote it and then showed all his 32 teeth to win Oscars.
I doubt any country will allow a public servant to write when in service. Please verify the laws of democratic countries and then inform. To my knowledge , even Robert McNamara;s Vietnam and many other novel writing by public servants in democratic set ups were after retirement and not during service.
@Joseph. This is the problem with Christians pretending to be Hindu sadhu and trying to find references to Jesus in Hindu texts without any fundamental knowledge of Sanskrit.
Brahma Putra refers to Brahma’s sons. He had many.
Brahma’s mind born sons are the seers Marici, Atri, Angiras, Pulastya, Pulaha, Kratuj, Pracetas, Vashishta, Bhrgu and Narada. From Brahma’s body came his nine sons Daksa, Dharma, Kama, Anger, Greed, Delusion (Maya), Lust, Joy, Death and Bharata and one daughter called Angaja.
References to Kanya can mean either virgin or unmarried. The virgin reference occurs in just about every culture known to man, from the ancient Egyptians onwards. In Greek mythology, Zeus the supreme god used to regularly impregnate virgin maidens and had many sons that way (e.g. Hercules) In Hindu epics, Kunti gave birth to Karna as a Kanya and regained her kanya status afterwards. Devaki was imprisoned at the time of Krishna’s birth, so technically that could also be considered a virgin birth too.
The reason Hindus don’t insist on the truth of the virginity of the mother, is because they recognize that it is immaterial to the divinity of the avatar ; this is unlike most Christians for whom Jesus’ divinity depends on the virgin birth (i.e son of god as opposed to son of Joseph). For Hindus, Vishnu can be Vasudeva’s putra or Nanda’s putra or Yashoda’s son or Devaki’s son. It does not take away from his divinity.
Finally, pancha kaya namaha. (oh god–how stupid) Kaya in sanskrit does not have the same meaning as kayam in tamil. In Tamil, kayam means wound. In Sanskrit kaya means body. So the pancha kaya refers to either the five elements of God (Shiva) which are earth, air, water, fire and ether (akasa). These can all be found in the sybolism of Nataraja.
Pancha kaya may also refer to the five bodies that comprise the human body –the five koshas.
1. The Physical Body (Annamaya Kosha)
This includes our “solid†body like our tissues and organs.
2. The Energy Body (Pranamaya Kosha)
This includes our “fluid†body such as our circulation and breathing.
3. The Psycho-Emotional Body (Manomaya Kosha)
This includes our “mental†body such as our thoughts and emotions.
4. The Wisdom Body (Vijnanamaya Kosha)
This includes our “cognitive†body such as our intellect and intuition.
5. The Bliss Body (Anandamaya Kosha)
This includes our “spiritual†body that knows it is always connected to God (Source) and hence lives with gratitude, appreciation and happiness in treating life here on Earth as the amazing gift it is.
What is truly disturbing is the need Christians have to find validation for their religious beliefs in the scriptures of others. Does that presage a lack of confidence in the “truth ” their religion claims to have.
Swami Devananda Saraswathi has exposed this . Go to
Harapriya
http://www.hamsa.org , see to your right side, you will find
“Atma Jyoti Ashram: Christian Priests Uncloaked”
by Swami Devananda Saraswati
‘Dancing Jesus’ in The New Indian Bible
Read comments here also.
http://www.vivekajyoti.blogspot.com/2009/02/jesus-in-india-pure-unadulterated.html
@Joseph. Please get yourself a good sanskrit dictionary and learn about Hindu scriptures from a proper pandit, not one of those online fake swamis. Purusha prajapathi does not mean man people winner. Purusha and prakriti refer to the manifest nature of Brahman called Iswara. (Brahman is the unmanifest nondual being). Iswara consists of the male (purusha–creative energy) and prakriti–the manifested nature. This refers to all creation. Thus, for a human, prakriti is the body and purusha the indweller (atman).
Prajapathi–one who is the ruler of the praja. Generally refers to Brahma the deity (not Brahman–the nondual entity)
For those who are interested in symbols which commonly occur in world mythology and religions, check out any of Joseph Campbell’s books or lectures.
Here is an interesting video on the subject.
Hare Krishna
What a way to translate Sanskrit words. I have been for 15 yrs in this language. The way it has been translated into everybody’s own interpretation calls for a deep thought.
Here is what Bhagvad Gita says
Chapter 3. Karma-yoga
TEXT 10
saha-yajnah prajah srstva
purovaca prajapatih
anena prasavisyadhvam
esa vo ‘stv ista-kama-dhuk
SYNONYMS
saha–along with; yajnah–sacrifices; prajah–generations; srstva–creating; pura–anciently; uvaca–said; praja-patih–the Lord of creatures; anena–by this; prasavisyadhvam–be more and more prosperous; esah–certainly; vah–your; astu–let it be; ista–all desirable; kama-dhuk–bestower.
TRANSLATION
In the beginning of creation, the Lord of all creatures sent forth generations of men and demigods, along with sacrifices for Visnu, and blessed them by saying, “Be thou happy by this yajna [sacrifice] because its performance will bestow upon you all desirable things.”
The Mahabharata mentions, in the words of celestial sage Narada, 14 Prajapatis (lit:caretakers of the Praja), namely: Daksha, Prachetas, Pulaha, Marichi, Kasyapa, Bhrigu, Atri, Vasistha, Gautama, Angiras, Pulastya, Kratu, Prahlada and Kardama who are the caretakers of the fourteen worlds – seven lokas and seven talas.
One can go on. But one thing is sure. People have started playing games with this wonderful language. Only the wise will be able to dicriminate between hot air and tasty prasadams.
hi Harapriya,
Asking Joseph to HONESTLY learn about Hindu scriptures is like asking a donkey to grow wings. Ain’t happening, sister !!!
Dear all,
Threat to National Security!
THIS NATION BELONGS TO JESUS
http://myexperimentsagainstprejudice.blogspot.com/2009/08/chilling-experience-in-chennai-this.html
Please spread this news far & wide
@VoP
Thanks for sharing. This is outrageous but then what can you expect from the (mis)governance of Anti-Hindu bigot Karunanidhi’s DMK? When they have officially declared Kanya Kumari as Christian District, Christians were given sermon one Sunday before election 2009 to vote for DMK as they will represent Christians (talk about mixing Church with State), Shri Hanuman ji’s statue was removed from the Beach and Kanya Kumari has been renamed to Kanya Mariam post-elections. It does look like Christian Taliban is taking over.
Massive protest against Missionaries in TN Village
http://www.haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.aspx?PageID=9358&SKIN=B
Inculturation with no shame! “Vijayadasami and Sivarathri are Christian Celebrations , Imitated by Hindus!” say missionaries
http://www.haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.aspx?PageID=9355&SKIN=C
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I wonder what the heck are we doing.
The world is divided into three who find the natives with faith native to this nation a very fine piece of flesh to feast upon… Seculars (refined Christianity Theory Followers), Christian and Muslims.
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@ imformeritocracy: Avoid posting duplicate (or very similar) comments on multiple threads.
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