Should prostitution be de-criminalised in India?

*** CAUTION: Explicit Content & Strong Words ***

This post (and poll) was prompted by an exchange of thoughts between Rohit and Incognito on the Hinduism and Homosexuality post. The comments were triggered by Mahesh’s observation viz.

The main reason sited by NAZ foundation for asking the high court to strike down the sec 377 was
1)so that gay can come out and get open access to HIV & AIDS.
2)As its a concsensual act between two adults in private place

ITS ABOUT TIME THAT ON THE BASES OF ABOVE TWO POINTS WHICH ARE VERY MUCH APPLICABLE ON “PROSITUTION”… THEN SHOULDNT PROSITUTION SHOULD ASLO BE LEGALIZED?

As at least a few of you would know, “Prostitution” itself is not illegal in India but organised prostitution and related activities (operating brothels etc) are illegal. Strangely the punishment for a male who indulges in prostitution in/near a public place is only three months while for the woman, it is six months. Clients do not face punishment under the present law and a proposal to criminalise clients of prostitutes came in for criticism and was opposed by the Health Ministry.

The question is: Is this the time to re-visit this matter and take a more restrictive, or indeed broader, view?

I am aware that this can be a pretty intense and serious debate and there are no easy answers…Like most of my readers, I am interested in hearing differing view-points…hopefully out of a discussion, some sensible points would emerge.

I have excerpted Rohit and Incognito’s comments below, and added a quick poll so that I can hear your views.

First the poll.

If you would like to read some view-points before making up your mind, the discussion below will help. Read on for an exchange of thoughts between Incognito and Rohit. Thanks.

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Comment by Rohit:

Prostitution should be legalized and also not called by the dirty word prostitution. They should have proper code of ethics as is applicable for practicing professionals like lawyers, chartered accountants etc. Sex is a natural human need and legalization of sex as a business will bring down the crime rate against women, contribute to taxes and make individuals more responsible towards society.

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Comment by Incognito:

>>>>“Sex is a natural human need”

Marriage is there to cater to that need.

>>>> legalization of sex as a business will bring down the crime rate against women,

will cause people to look upon women as commodity that can be bought and sold.
Will cause greedy men to offer and entice and ‘conquer’ those not yet in the field, with money, legally.

Disharmony at homes will increase.

Ethics and moral values in society will disappear.

Finally, Will you like it if somebody offers for a family member of yours ?

You seems to be too much under the influence of ‘liberal’ ideas presently being propagated by interested parties.

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Comment by Rohit:

TO Incognito
1) Marriage is there to cater to that need
Brothels still exist. Call girl business still exists, catered to by married persons.
2) Will cause people to look upon women as commodity that can be bought and sold… Will cause greedy men to offer and entice and ‘conquer’ those not yet in the field, with money, legally… Disharmony at homes will increase… Ethics and moral values in society will disappear
Nothing like this happens in countries/ societies where prostitution is legalized. For example, nothing evil happened when Ladies Bar concept was prevalent in Mumbai… Nothing good has happened from the time it has been declared illegal… Society is running the same way.
3) Finally, Will you like it if somebody offers for a family member of yours?
Out of context and way; a figment of your extended imagination, to stoke deliberate emotional outburst; because I did not, anywhere advocate that prostitution should be run in a way where in I go out and start bidding on your female family members. Neither the same happens where prostitution is legalized.
4) You seems to be too much under the influence of ‘liberal’ ideas presently being propagated by interested parties
Loose and inconclusive statement… No Comments.

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Comment by INCOGNITO

>>> “Brothels still exist. Call girl business still exists, catered to by married persons. ”

You don’t see the wrong in such unlawful and unethical activities. You would rather see them legalised.
Yielding to unrighteousness is the first step to degrading yourself and society.

Inability to discern righteousness or refusal to perceive it is no excuse .

>>> Nothing like this happens in countries/ societies where prostitution is legalized. For example, nothing evil happened when Ladies Bar concept was prevalent in Mumbai…

Have you seen the mechanical faces of women in dance bars of Mumbai ? Women, girls, who have to forcibly put on a ‘interested’ look towards the customers ?
Girls who would rather not go with customers but have to if some of them takes special interest in them ?

Do you realise the degradation and helplessness many of those girls feel ?

You don’t.

You would rather be like the ‘house negro’ of yore who prefers to keep his eyes shut to inconvenient truths and would see only what is convenient.

>>> ” Finally, Will you like it if somebody offers for a family member of yours? Out of context and way; a figment of your extended imagination,

This is the attitude of the house negro mentioned above, refusal to see reality.

What is stopping a neighbourhood richie from offering for one of your family member if he takes a fancy to her ?
Nothing, if it is legal.
And it would be well within the rights of that family member to accept or reject that offer.
And you would be an impassive spectator who will rationalise that she is free to decide what she wants.

Comment by Incognito | July 11, 2009 | Edit

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Comment by Rohit:

Incognito,
Before I give some logical answers to your postings, I would urge you to be reasonable, rational and not act like a fanatic. Come with some logical statements than emotional crap where in your belief does not make you realize truth. Think independently, rationally than simply believing in a belief. For, a what a person believes is true for that person but the belief is not always true.

1) You don’t see the wrong in such unlawful and unethical activities. You would rather see them legalised. Yielding to unrighteousness is the first step to degrading yourself and society. Inability to discern righteousness or refusal to perceive it is no excuse.

Prostitution exists everywhere since time immortal… This is universal truth. Denying legal existence to something that exists and will exist doesn’t make any positive difference. The majority of persons who take to prostitution want to make quick money or are poor and have no option but to go in for prostitution… The links below in point 2 will help you to read insights to mind of ladies who chose dance bar over prostitution but say they will have to go into prostitution if dance bar is not there.

2) Have you seen the mechanical faces of women in dance bars of Mumbai? Women, girls, who have to forcibly put on a ‘interested’ look towards the customers? Girls who would rather not go with customers but have to if some of them takes special interest in them? Do you realise the degradation and helplessness many of those girls feel? You don’t.

The girls make so much money in dance bars of Mumbai that they can easily run some other business if they didn’t really like the business. Has the illegalization stopped the girls running shows? Didn’t the girls themselves came out and participate in demonstrations against closing of dance bars? http://www.hindu.com/fline/fl2209/stories/20050506001104700.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4409309.stm

3) You would rather be like the ‘house negro’ of yore who prefers to keep his eyes shut to inconvenient truths and would see only what is convenient.
I do not deny existence of truth. Prostitution has existed since time immortality. It exists everywhere. Who hate it have polygamy which is another form of prostitution.

4) This is the attitude of the house negro mentioned above, refusal to see reality. What is stopping a neighbourhood richie from offering for one of your family member if he takes a fancy to her? Nothing, if it is legal. And it would be well within the rights of that family member to accept or reject that offer. And you would be an impassive spectator who will rationalise that she is free to decide what she wants.

Realty I have explained in point 1. Coming down to other points, who are the customers of Call Girls (Also include Models, Upcoming Filmstars… Did you forget Monica Bedi, Mandakini) who can be from high class. For your kind information, Call Girl Business is illegal in India.

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Comment by Incognito:

>>> Prostitution exists everywhere since time immortal… This is universal truth.

This is a fiction that you want to believe as truth.

Next you will call for legalisation of dacoity because it ‘exists’, of rape because it too ‘exists’, of peadophilia because it exists, of everything that ‘exists’.

Don’t mind if it is pointed out that this is the attitude of the deluded.

In your present frame of mind you are unable to distinguish between what is right and what is not .

Don’t mind it, but truth is that ancient indians called this mentality the Shudra mentality.

One day perhaps you may look back and recognize this for what it is.

>>> The majority of persons who take to prostitution want to make quick money or are poor and have no option but to go in for prostitution…

You haven’t heard of trafficking ?
Why don’t you go out to the red light areas and interview a new comer, not an old hand, whether she came to make money or whether she was forced into it ?

>>> The links below in point 2 will help you to read insights to mind of ladies who chose dance bar over prostitution but say they will have to go into prostitution if dance bar is not there.

because prostition is there. illegal, yet ‘there’. because the government and its police does not uphold what is right by its own law. It is when the government loses sight of what is right that citizens too become unable to distinguish between what is right and what is wrong, and proposes legalisation of wrong to make it right, as you have done.

The state of mind that causes this state of affairs is called Delusion.

Wrong does not become Right by calling it so.

>>>> The girls make so much money in dance bars of Mumbai that they can easily run some other business if they didn’t really like the business.

Just before that you said – “ladies who chose dance bar over prostitution say they will have to go into prostitution if dance bar is not there.”
If these ‘ladies’ made so much money in dance bars that they could easily run some other business, you are contradicting your earlier statement. Are you not ?

Try to comprehend that this is the indication of a mind that is deluded.

>>> Didn’t the girls themselves came out and participate in demonstrations against closing of dance bars?

If you keep believing everything newspapers and TV channels feed you, it is no wonder that you lose your sense of right and wrong.
A prescription- less of TV, less of mainstream newspapers, bit more of personal experience and mediums like internet.

Later perhaps, hard introspection.

Besides that, such instances of women protesting for occupation in dance bars shows how they have become accustomed to that life. It is much like the case of the house negro. Can you understand this ?
Try to understand this point.

>>> And you would be an impassive spectator who will rationalise that she is free to decide what she wants.

Realty I have explained in point 1.

You haven’t explained anything.
You have merely left the sentance “And you would be an impassive spectator who will rationalise that she is free to decide what she wants” hang in the air, unable to face the implication of that future possibility if what you propose comes to pass.
Sometimes this attitude is called ‘escapism’, unwillingness to shoulder responsibility of one’s words etc.

>>> Call Girls (Also include Models, Upcoming Filmstars… Did you forget Monica Bedi, Mandakini) who can be from high class.

That some girls come forward to sell their bodies to make money should set you thinking, about the society that encourages such behaviour and the moral and ethical values in that society. It should set you asking whether you want to be part of such a society or whether you would try to change it, and bring ethical values to it. But no, you recognize in those girls a fellow Vyshya who is willing to sell herself and her morals for money. You recognize a kinship in their lack of values and lack of respect for themselves.

Understand that this lack of ’sense of rightness’ is the result of being under the influence of ‘liberal’ ideas propagated by interested parties, which statement you dismissed earlier as loose and inconclusive.

You may not realise it now, which is understandable, as you are under the deluding influence of ‘liberal’ thoughts. maybe later you will, if you are fortunate, perhaps.

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Comment by Rohit:

TO Incognito:

1) This is a fiction that you want to believe as truth.

ANSWER:

You didn’t provide any proof to contradict but simply a statement. Tell me what date prostitution first descended on earth?

2) Next you will call for legalisation of dacoity because it ‘exists’, of rape because it too ‘exists’, of peadophilia because it exists, of everything that ‘exists’.

Don’t mind if it is pointed out that this is the attitude of the deluded.

ANSWER:

There is a difference between having a sex with someone with consent and dacoity, rape, paedophilia or similar other things.

What will you call a girl who has had sex with say at least more than one person before she marries a person, works as a housewife or in a company and may have extramarital sex life? She can be your wife too or mine too or any of the bloggers over here and what should be done for she has not committed any crime by satisfying her natural desires. What would you say of a man who has had sex more than once with different girls? Which court or sane person or a rational person has the right to say that it is crime to have sex with consent?

When a person has sex he chooses a partner to have sex. Sex can be indulged into by wooing a girl (Consensual Sex) or by buying sex (prostitution) or by forcing sex (Rape). For first two all you can say or hold is a belief which is called as moral or immoral. If you hold a belief that it is wrong to have sex with more than one person throughout your life, that is your moral. Some people hold belief that it is not wrong to have sex with more than one person… At the most you can call them immoral not criminals… Some hold belief (legalized) that it’s ok to have more than one wife… This belief from my extreme point of view is noting but legalized prostitution in house hold… But at the most this legalized system can be termed as immoral.

In case of rape, you force someone to do something he doesn’t want to; against wishes; therefore it is crime.

3) In your present frame of mind you are unable to distinguish between what is right and what is not .

That is a conclusion which is yours own.

4) Don’t mind it, but truth is that ancient indians called this mentality the Shudra mentality.

I do not revel in irrelevant things from past

5) One day perhaps you may look back and recognize this for what it is.

I am always ready for change for good

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Comment by Rohit:

TO Incognito:

You haven’t heard of trafficking? Why don’t you go out to the red light areas and interview a new comer, not an old hand, whether she came to make money or whether she was forced into it?

I said legalization of Prostitution not legalization of forcing people into prostitution which is akin to slavery

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Comment by Rohit:

because prostition is there. illegal, yet ‘there’. because the government and its police does not uphold what is right by its own law. It is when the government loses sight of what is right that citizens too become unable to distinguish between what is right and what is wrong, and proposes legalisation of wrong to make it right, as you have done.
The state of mind that causes this state of affairs is called Delusion.
Wrong does not become Right by calling it so.
ANSWER
Existence of prostitution is agreed to by society in general. Some want it to be legalized, some remain mute spectators, some oppose (verbal gestures) but do nothing for prostitutes. Even if prostitution is banned (An Utopia), sexual desires of a person cannot be suppressed and person will have sex which may not be only and with the only person he marries.
COMMENT
Just before that you said – “ladies who chose dance bar over prostitution say they will have to go into prostitution if dance bar is not there.”
If these ‘ladies’ made so much money in dance bars that they could easily run some other business, you are contradicting your earlier statement. Are you not ?
Try to comprehend that this is the indication of a mind that is deluded.
ANSWER
I do not think that you read the comments of a lady in Hindu who was explaining why she wants this business to run… Read the entire article. But yes the business had good money in it. Refer http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/489327.cms

>>> Didn’t the girls themselves came out and participate in demonstrations against closing of dance bars?
COMMENT
If you keep believing everything newspapers and TV channels feed you, it is no wonder that you lose your sense of right and wrong.
A prescription- less of TV, less of mainstream newspapers, bit more of personal experience and mediums like internet.
Later perhaps, hard introspection.
Besides that, such instances of women protesting for occupation in dance bars shows how they have become accustomed to that life. It is much like the case of the house negro. Can you understand this ?
Try to understand this point.
ANSWER
I do not believe everything that TV or Newspaper feeds me… I do blogging more than you do… And I have visited Gentlemen’s Club if you talk about personal experience. Rest… No comments except that it applies to you in reverse especially the last one

The rest don’t really take the discussion forward… So No Comments

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Comment by Incognito:

35-37 >>>You didn’t provide any proof to contradict but simply a statement. Tell me what date prostitution first descended on earth?

You make a fabricated statement and then ask others to provide proof that it is not fact!

Not surprising; remember, the Sudra mind. This is what it is.

>> There is a difference between having a sex with someone with consent

You are making a supposition that prostitutes become so by consent.

In your present state of mind you are unable to understand the value of a life of dignity and respect that most people prefer.

You do not recognise the degradation of having to sell one’s body and thereby, one’s self.

>>> Existence of prostitution is agreed to by society in general.

It is your ‘valueless’ mind that has compromised your ‘principles’.

>>> Even if prostitution is banned (An Utopia), sexual desires of a person cannot be suppressed and person will have sex which may not be only and with the only person he marries.

It is your ‘valueless’ mind that refuses to see a person as capable of having values in life, of purpose in life higher than acquiescing to physical desires.

You, in your valueless state deny the existence of values and people who lead a life of values.

>>> I do blogging more than you do…

Internet was not suggested for blogging alone.
Besides, if this is the kind of blogging you do, it is no wonder that you hold the views that you do.

>>> And I have visited Gentlemen’s Club if you talk about personal experience.

Maybe that kind of ‘experience’ is all that you could think of, however, that was not what was meant. What was meant was that you open your eyes and gain experience and wisdom from what you encounter around you, rather than by blindly following the TV channels and newspapers.

Maybe, in your current state you are unable to understand it and implement it.
Not unexpected.

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Comment by Rohit:

You make a fabricated statement and then ask others to provide proof that it is not fact! Not surprising; remember, the Sudra mind. This is what it is.

ANSWER
You make me laugh… Every language has a word for Prostitution that may solve your mystery… Read something here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution

Rest… No comments.

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Comment by Patriot

Question of the curious cat:

Why is it okay to sell your labour and your brains, but not okay to sell your sex – what is so special about sex? (Besides the obvious, I mean!)

(I know what happened to the afforementioned cat, but still! )

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Please share your own thoughts/ideas below, via the comments section. Please remember if you do not fill in your email address, the comment is likely to get stuck in the spam queue. If you are worried about sharing your email address, please use this email address instead: satyacomment AT gmail.com

I am tied up this weekend with a large backlog of emails and personal work but will share my views on this topic later on. Thanks.

Additional Reading (I must confess I have not read through all of these links myself; so these are also reminders to myself):

The problem of “Prostitution” – An Indian Perspective

A ToI Op-Ed on Sex Workers Need Legal Cover

Somewhat related: Homosexuality, Hinduism and Section 377

Past polls:

Who is likely to be India’s next Prime Minister? – Cast your vote

What is stopping you from joining active politics?

Should there be certain “selection criteria” for MPs?

What should be India’s top developmental priority?

Do we need to re-examine our “population policy”?