A closer look at the “Sangh Parivaar” – Join the debate on RSS

I would like to comment on Point 4 above about Golwalkar being an admirer of Hitler. A lot of it is being made about the proximity of the Sangh and Hitler. To set the record straight here are my 2cents
1. In 1939 the WW2 was still going on and Hitler was not yet defeated and no one knew about his horror stories. So in a bipolar war one had to pick sides and since hitler was fighting the brits, it was a simple case of my enemy’s enemy is my friend.

2. The then PM of UK (Neville Chamberlain) went to Germany and kissed Hitler’s ass and begged him to not attack UK and praised him to the high heavens. So i wonder what is to be said about this.

3. Even Subash Chandra Bose (who later got elected as president of the Congress party) was a supporter of Hitler. Ofcourse that Gandhi kicked and cried and threw him out is a different story. But it remains that a majority of Congressmen elected Bose as president which means they didnt support Gandhi’s policies. SO I guess that was the beginning of the end of inner party democracy in Congress.

Now with the advantage of hind sight , it is all too easy to criticize the actions of people at that time. But in 39 no one know what Hitler was doing and more importantly no one knew that he would loose the war.

4. On the comment of being against muslims, the Partition of India was actively happening around 45 and I am sure a lot of tempers were high. To take those comments now and with the advantage of hind sight condemning them is wrong. Gandhi was also against Muslim league (which at that time was the main representative of the muslims in united India)for asking for a partition of India. So does this mean that Gandhi was also against Muslims?

Dear Shantanu,

I don’t know what to comment on Sanjeev’s thoughts about RSS. But, I definitely feel Sanjeev should visit an RSS Shakha and actually see for himself what RSS is all about. May be that may enable him to view the RSS in a different perspective. I am not biased towards the RSS in any way.
But it is a bit disappointing to read Sanjeev’s comments – for which he seems to have only relied on the media and some anti-RSS elements.

Ajay.

Here is an article on RSS from a Indian Christian Priest, based on his research. It has several interesting points. Perhaps, like myself a few years ago, majority of Hindus and off course Indians are totally ignorant about RSS. They read about it only on newspapers and I am afraid it is hardly ever a positive picture that gets reported on RSS or any other ‘Hindu’group.

Indian Christian Priest: RSS neither Nationalist nor Fascist
Posted September 10, 2006

Surojit Chatterjee, Dec. 19 2003, The Christian Post, Source Link
http://www.christianaggression.org/item_display.php?type=NEWS&id=1157872781

The name of the research institution is Sorbonne University, Paris, France. The researcher is Dr. (Father) Vincent Kundukulam of St Joseph Pontifical Seminary, Aluva, Kerala. The thesis for the doctoral research is: Le RSS Et L’Eglise En Inde (RSS and Church in India).

To Fr. Kundukulam goes the credit for being the first Christian priest to do a doctoral thesis on the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh, that too in a foreign university. He is also the first clergyman to author a book on the RSS titled RSS: Enthu? Engott? (What is RSS and Where is it headed for).

In fact, a former clergyman, Anthony Elenjimittam, had published a book titled RSS: Bharathiya Samskruthiyude Kavalsena (RSS: Watchdog of Indian Culture) way back in 1951, but he had ceased to be a priest and had taken to social service when the book was published.

What motivated Fr. Kundukulam to conduct a research on the RSS was his conviction that the Catholic church should closely study the philosophy, organisational structure and working of all the socio-politico-cultural movements in the society in which it operates, imbibe the best in them, and invite a dialogue on their negative aspects.

The phenomenal growth of the RSS in post-Independent India, with its tentacles firmly rooted in all walks of life, all nooks and corners of the country, kindled his curiosity. In Madhya Pradesh, he came across a European who had been doing a doctoral thesis on ‘Hindu nationalism’ in the Sorbonne University.

“When I broached the idea of writing a book on my research findings on the RSS, some of my co-religionists cautioned me that the RSS men would beat me up if I wrote something against them. I have in my assessment of the RSS tried to be as objective as possible. It is of immense satisfaction to me that my book is well-received in the church and RSS circles,” said Fr. Kundukulam in an interview at the Pontifical Seminary.

The conclusion drawn by Fr. Kundukulam is that RSS cannot be considered as a nationalist organisation in the sense in which the term ‘nationalism’ is generally interpreted in India. Nationalism represents the collective consciousness of the people transcending all barriers of caste, religion, etc. A nationalist is one who is primarily indebted to the nation. Religion has no place in nationalism. In this sense, Fr. Kundukulam argues, RSS, whose primary loyalty is to the Hindus, can hardly be called a nationalist organisation. In his view, RSS is a multi-faceted organisation which is political, cultural, religious and voluntary in nature and approach.

Different facets gain upperhand at different times depending on social and political exigencies.

At the same time, Fr. Kundukulam argues against branding the RSS ideology as fascism, Nazism, fundamentalism and communalism. He said the terms fascism, Nazism, and fundamentalism are much abused terms in India. They have a distinct connotation in the European context that can hardly apply to the Indian milieu.

The term fundamentalism was first coined in the context of the emergence of the Protestant movement in the Christian church in America in the twenties.

The ideology of the RSS and the way in which it is interpreted by the Sangh leaders borrowing modern terminology have no camparison to the sense in which the term fundamentalism was used in America. So also, fascism and Nazism do have distinct meanings in the socio-political contexts that prevailed in Italy and Germany which have no bearing in the Indian context.

Fr. Kundukulam felt that communalism is not at all a part of religion. Communalism is nothing but mobilisation of people on communal lines to serve a specific cause. RSS can, therefore, be said to be communal only in a limited sense. BJP, the political arm of the RSS, during its rule at the Centre has not committed any acts that could truly be described as fundamentalist, fascist, or communal. “In fact, one of the first acts of A B Vajpayee after taking over as Prime Minister last time was to call on Mother Teresa and Delhi Archbishop,” he said.

Fr. Kundukulam felt that the socio-political milieu of India offers a fertile ground for the RSS to grow.

One admirable aspect of the RSS, Fr Kundukulam says, is its flexibility to move with the times and to adopt the best from other socio-cultural-religious movements. It learnt the rudiments of social work from the missionary organisations of the church and mass mobilisation techniques from the communists.

He admires the RSS for the dedication and discipline of its cadres, the simple life style of its pracharaks, the moral teaching it imparts to the younger generation in its daily sakhas, and the voluntary labour put in by its cadres at critical times such as natural calamities.

Indian society, Fr Kundukulam feels, is in a “vicious circle” with the majority Hindu community suffering from a “psychological inferiority complex” on account of its failure to have a proportionate say in the governance of the country in spite of its numerical superiority and the minorities always suspicious of the majority community. The growth of minority fundamentalism would only strengthen the RSS.

“India can prosper only by strengthening the forces of democracy and secularism and ensuring economic justice to the people,” concludes Fr. Kundukulam who is now busy working on the second edition of his book.

I have one question. How many kind of lives Sanjeev has lived in India? He has just lived one life for himself. Has he lived the life of and for others? No! than please discard his views as bias opinion and attitude. His take must be representing his life and 0.5% life of India. Thats it! This shows his views cannot be trusted for this as well as other issues too.

I support those who says waste of time on sanjeev!

“The utopian future of militant Hindu ideology is more a revival of Hindu glory than a reformation…”

Actually this is not completely true. What the RSS does stress is that the Hindu past was glorious but it had social problems also esp. in the form of the caste system and the treatment of women etc. The RSS in its present forms does actively support social reform and works toward the abolition of the caste system. It often takes positions not supported by Hindu orthodoxy and that is why you rarely find any of the Shankarcharyas supporting the RSS.

Recently the Tamil Nadu government passed an law stating that anyone from any community can serve as a temple priest provided he had the training. This move was welcomed by the RSS and the VHP but was not really supported by the orthodoxy.

Interesting read –
http://www.archivesofrss.org/index.php?option=com_book&task=showFile&bookid=8

After reading this blog I went to RSS website and found the archive. This is the first book I opened. I am still reading but I have already found some text I want to share…

Excerpts
“When the Shahi Imam of Jama of Delhi went to Mecca on a pilgrimage, a local resident asked him, “Are you a Hindu?” The Imam was startled by this question and replied, “No, I am a Muslim.” When Imam Saheb asked him the reason for calling him a Hindu, he replied that all Hindustanis were called Hindu there. (Saptahik Hindustan, May 1,1977)”

“Replying to the felicitation at the Indian Association Lahore, on February 3, 1884, Sir Syed Ahmed the founder of Aligarh University said, “We normally associate the word Nation with Hindus and Mussalmans. In my opinion, the concept of nation is not to be linked with one’s religious beliefs because all of us, whether Hindus or Mussalmans, have grown in this soil, enjoy common points of sustenance and prosperity and share common rights. This verily, is the basis for both these our sections in Hindustan to come together under the common name Hindu Nation… The term Hindu should not be identified with the Hindu community. All sections–whether they be Mussalman or Christian — are Hindu.” (Hamari Ekta Delhi April 15,1979)”

“Anyone who is the national of this country, irrespective of being a Shaiva, Shakta, Vaishnava, Sikh, Jain, Muslim, Christian, Parsi, Buddist or Jew by way of his creed or mode of worship, is a Hindu. As Justice M.C. Chagla has forcefully put it, “The French, with their sense of logic and precision, call Indians irrespective of their caste or community L Hindus. I think that is a correct description of all those who live in this country and consider it their home. In true sense, we are all Hindus although we may practise different religions. I am a Hindu because I trace my ancestry to my Aryan forefathers and I cherish the philosophy and the culture which they handed down to successive generations.

“If only we accept this proposition and call ourselves Hindus by race, it would be the greatest triumph for secularism.”

Believe me I did not have to search for this, its right there.

I will continue to read, but thought I will share…

Anupam

The amount of understanding and bias of Sanjeev’s references about RSS’s work and structure is clear from this one line. While his reference translates “Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh” as “National Servants Society”, on the other hand a RSS member Pangla Nagendra Rao refers to it as “World’s Largest Voluntary organisation”. Slave-Servant mentality galore!

Guys it may be a wasted time or may be not but at least thanks to Shantanu we got so many references with facts to rebut next time someone debates with such biased myopic viewpoint to stereotype Hindus and/or Selfless Nationalist Hindu Organizations.
=================
@Anupam bhai
The term Hindu should not be identified with the Hindu community. All sections–whether they be Mussalman or Christian — are Hindu.

—
I don’t get it. How is this statement not true? Or whats wrong with it? Even if we believe the doctored history that they teach us in schools that Mughals were great and never tortured an ant, still that doesn’t make them any less of outsider & invader right? And of course they didn’t bring over 180 Million Indian Muslims with them from Mongol and/or Middle East to settle them in Bharat. Neither did European or American Christian get Indian citizenship and choose to move to Bharat to make whole of Kerela, Southern parts of Tamil Nadu, Central Parts of Andhra, Major parts of North East Bharat dominantly Christian.

So where did such large population of Bharatvaasi came from who happen to follow Christianity or Islam? They were mostly Bharatvaasi who were converted forcefully or willingly or through bribe/profit. What were they before conversion? They were mostly Hindus.

So how is the above statement wrong and/or what is wrong in admitting that these people who at present may not be Hindus but their ancestors were?

Please watch this talk “Deceptive world and the Pizza effect” by Mr. Rajiv Malhotra and Dr. Subramanian Swamy @ http://satyabhashnam.blogspot.com/2009/01/world-peace-challenges-impact.html

Lookout for this one Christian extremist who jumps the line out of turn, hence shows no etiquette, to shout and protest without any facts. He gets a good rebuttal by Mr. Malhotra.

Amazing huh… a Muslim says he is a Muslim, a Christian says he is a Christian but a Hindu says he is Secular. Of course we are secular because we don’t believe in “Holier than Thou” concept that the Abrahamic religions believe in. But that doesn’t give a right to other people especially these feigned secularism following extremists to beat us with a stick if we say we are Proud Devout Hindu.

Comment 12
From RSS archive-
>>>>”…When Imam Saheb asked him the reason for calling him a Hindu, he replied that all Hindustanis were called Hindu there. ”

Does RSS mean to suggest that identity of the peope of India be decided by the people of Mecca ?

If so, then the criticism against RSS that it lacks in intellectual vigour may not be misplaced.

>>>Sir Syed Ahmed- “…all of us, whether Hindus or Mussalmans, have grown in this soil, enjoy common points of sustenance and prosperity and share common rights…. All sections-whether they be Mussalman or Christian- are Hindu.”

A far more appropriate term would be Bharatiya, denoting people who belong to Bharat.

>>>>Justice M.C. Chagla- “… I am a Hindu because I trace my ancestry to my Aryan forefathers and I cherish the philosophy and the culture which they handed down to successive generations.”

The point is that those forefathers did not call themselves Hindu. If fact, chances are that they probably never even heard of such a name. Else one would have found a mention of it in the Vedas, Ramayana, Mahabharata. So how can someone who claims to trace ancestors accept such a name ?

The literature handed down by Ancient Indians indicate that they did not believe in giving fixed identities based on the birth of a person. They revered the Absolute in various forms. The only distinction they appers to have made is based on the displayed characterstics of a person, which again, is not fixed. So Ratnakar, who displayed Sudra characterstic as a petty robber later displayed Brahmana characterstic when he wrote Ramayana. Satyakama Jabala was considered a Brahamana because he displayed the characterstic of a truth seeker viz., honesty, enquiring mind and commitment to realise Brahma; although his mother herself could not say who his father was.

>>>>”If only we accept this proposition and call ourselves Hindus by race, it would be the greatest triumph for secularism.”

And the greatest disaster for intellectual independence.

For two reasons.
1. That word is a foreign word- developed and used by foreigners. If you accept your identity based on what foreigners call you, … imagine the rest.

2. The tendency to identify a person based on anything but his displayed characterstic (which is by the way, transient), such as by giving identity based on country of birth, based on religious belief of one’s parents, based on cultural practice followed by one’s parents, etc., limits and distorts intellect.

For example, Francois Gautier by birth is a French, by looks he is a Caucasian, by upbringing he is a Christian. But by displayed characterstics he is more Indian than famous indians like Amartya Sen, Manmohan Singh and dogs of small things, in that he reveres the traditions of this land and cares for its ancient culture more than all of these so-called indians (It is not being suggested here that these so-called indians do not care for indian culture, just that Gautier cares more than they do). Same is with Koenraad Elst, David Frawley etc.

——————————-
Comment 10- Harapriya-

>>>>”What the RSS does stress is that the Hindu past was glorious …”

Are you referring to the past that does not even mention the word Hindu ?

Or the recent past under muslim and british rule that does ?

>>>”…..but it had social problems also esp. in the form of the caste system and the treatment of women etc.”

Which of the above two past had these “social problems” ?

Care to give examples to substantiate that these ‘social problems’ were due to the ancient indigenous culture of this land
or
the result of abandoning that culture ?

this is my first comment and i will certainly add to it in future. a small comparison – everyone goes to town about guruji Golwalkar’s comments in his book – “we, and our nationhood defined” and the resultant stain on the RSS. (a reader above has nicely explained the circumstances for that particular stance)

would it be too much to remind the public, the media and the congressmen that gandhiji had asked for the congress to be disbanded after independence. is it a case of selective memory?

#6 and others. An Indian padre writing a thesis on Indian religion based organization in France is due to the global approach of these religions. There is are no departments like this in India I gather from my Indian friends in Indian universities. My initial reaction was why there was no such dept. in Indian Universtites. Then it dawned to me that there was no globalization of Indian religions , to say crudely , this faith has not cometh conquering. If you see , the criss crossing of continents by the two major Abrahamic religions for centuries, then the study of the Indian padre is understandable. In the West , the decline of padrehood and the provision of Indians to fill this vacuum, is a perfect launchpad for intellectual fishing with respect to India. It is sad that Indian religion without any pretensions of global march comes under the scanner. Indian Universities must start as to what happened in the West or How secularism came to the West.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortara_Affair

This is how secularism started in Europe. Read the web site above.

Will continue.

RSS by and large despite its size and growth remains as a dead organization. It is like a python who is huge but cant move or respond with agility which might be expected out of it.

RSS might be an harmless organization for Hindu revival or nationalistic zeal. But its positive contribution remains by and large very marginal.

The biggest problem with RSS is that it’s ideology has not been documented properly. It does not encourage original thought and research among its cadres instead keeps itself insulated from thoughts outside the Sangh world.

People like Ram Swarup, Sita Ram Goel, who have written so extensively about Hinduism and threats for hinduism but RSS has done nothing to promote their literature I guess purely because these researches refused to get subservient to RSS.

Any literature that comes out of Sangh Parivar is mostly full of ferver lacking any substance. Get a Swayansevak and ask him the definition of Hindutva, I am sure hardly few of them will be able to reply.

RSS despite its presence over last 75 years, has failed miserably to address any issues that should have concerned hindu society. It has tried to prove itself secular by means of using terminology such as “positive secularism”. It has failed to counter Christian missionaries on their propaganda and work. It has failed in building a sustainable political ideology with clear goals but has survived on purely emotional appeal of its ad hoc political issues such as Ram mandir.

Dear Shantanu

I am glad that facts about RSS are being discussed in the open. That can help clear up the air. Whatever the truth, let it emerge. Satyameva Jayate.

Given shortage of time, I haven’t been able to read your post entirely fully nor the comments (though I note that some of our good friends are getting somewhat personal!). However, a brief comment at this stage:

1) I’m going to link your blog post right on top of my article to ensure that anyone who comes to my blog will also read your blog post. I’ll also post a general comment on my blog stating “Please be sure to form your own opinion after reading and understanding all the facts – and that includes facts linked through Shantanu’s blog.”

2) My ’20 page’ blog post merely represents preliminary research that I undertook in a few spare hours over the course of two days. It also follows up on some of my readings and research conducted a few years ago. The evidence from these readings was over-whelming critical of RSS as an organization that we should encourage people to join. I do know that much is changing on RSS as we speak – indeed, I have cited examples of that on my post. However, much of it is not changing. It can be quite frightening to non-Hindus to see a very large group of Hindus taking arms training and shouting a range of provocative slogans. Some large RSS shakhas in Gujarat have been video recorded: a recent one being “India Reborn” which I saw a few months ago (http://www.cbc.ca/documentaries/indiareborn/).

3) I think you are right, but only partially, in your general critique that: “Instead of relying on primary or empirical evidence (or even on comments of Sangh leaders), Sanjeev has essentially done a compilation of academic research and newspapers reports on the Sangh (some of it, dated) and a lot of it based on hearsay rather than rigorous research.”

Being an academic of sorts I ‘swear’ by peer-reviewed journal articles. Regarding extracts from books that I may have cited, or newspaper articles, I am happy to take those with a pinch of salt. So the material I have cited is largely (not entirely) quite rigorous.

Further, you would have noted that I have cited statements of the founder/s of RSS as well as current RSS leaders. An organisation should be assessed on the basis of the writings and public statements of its founders and main office bearers. That is what I have done, where possible. It can also be assessed on the basis of what its followers do, although at that point the strong chain of evidence breaks down. Thus, when I have cited a district magistrate of Faizabad, his actions are not a direct indictment of RSS since it only states that: “The commissioner of Faizabad, the capital of Uttar Pradesh, ordered the district magistrate to remove the image from the mosque. However, the magistrate who was a supporter of the RSS chose to retire rather than follow the order of his superior.” Despite that, I have chosen, in this preliminary research, to cite such claims, for in the end a wholistic story will emerge by looking at the actions and statements of its leaders and followers.

4) Re: your comments about my citation of Golwalkar (“I would love to see this quote – in original and in context. Unfortunately no links here”), unfortunately I don’t have the original 1939 book, but the comment I have cited is from Sucheta Mazumdar’s journal article. Its list of references cites GOLWALKAR, M.S., (1939) We, or Our Nationhood Defined, Nagpur. You may wish to write to Sucheta Mazumdar for a copy of the book since I haven’t read it. But if it is true (and it likely is true) that Golwalkar did write that (a) “all Muslims were by definition traitors to India and not even deserving of citizenship rights” and (b) argued for the “exclusion of Muslims on the grounds that ‘Germany has also shown how well-nigh impossible it is for Races and cultures, having differences going to the root, to be assimilated into one united whole, a good lesson for us in Hindustan to learn and profit by’” – surely deserves our strongest condemnation! I wouldn’t join such an organisation with a barge pole! If, however, Mazumdar is falsely citing Golwalkar, please provide necessary evidence and I’ll write a personal letter to the editor of the journal: Feminist Review asking them to publish a retraction.

5) Re: your separate critique of the various citations I have provided, I suggest that while you can easily pick holes on a few words here or there, the overall story is what I’m looking at, and the overall story is not very rosy. I couldn’t still recommend RSS to anyone.

For instance, in one place you pick on the word “paramilitary”. Thus, you note that “RSS is hardly organised like an army and it is certainly not illegal.” Agreed that it is not illegal today, but do note that it was illegal on a few occasions in the past in India – and I have cited those occasions. Second, paramilitary can mean any organisation with potential armed capacity – then RSS surely has at least a bit of that. Nevertheless, I won’t enter into debates regarding these citations, but merely link your article to mine, so people can form their own views.

6) “To the best of my knowledge, the Sangh does not exclude people based on caste, religion or language.” Agreed. That is what happens today, for the most part. As I have cited, this was not so in the past. Which RSS are we talking about? That might be an issue in itself!

As indicated, I’m going to link your post to my post, and as time emerges in the coming weeks/ months, I’ll review the material and come to a better understanding of the truth about RSS.

Re: the commentators on this blog post who are making a range of personal comments about me (!), may I suggest that we keep working to seek the truth and achieve good outcomes for India? Avoid pre-judging me is what I suggest, but you are always most welcome to say whatever you wish about me. You will readily note that I strongly endorse a number of Hindu leaders particularly Vivekananda. And I strongly support much of the moral lessons of Gita. So my views on RSS are not reflective of an irrational ‘hatred’ towards anyone or anything. I simply am not convinced that RSS is an organisation we want or need in India.

I would much rather that we work together to create a new and INCLUSIVE organisation which achieves the same overall goals of national unity in India without taking with us the baggage that the RSS has created over the past decades. I think RSS might have had a role during the transition of India from medievalism to independence, but it should not give way to a more liberal and inclusive organisation. Indeed, I am hoping to help foster an organisation tentatively entitled, Adharshila that will do ALL the good things that RSS does, but will not have the baggage of communalism that is strongly linked with RSS in the minds of many people. You would hopefully hear more about Adharshila – the Foundation, in the coming months, from Shantanu.

I do hope we are here on this blog to do two things (a) discuss and find the truth and (b) achieve peace, harmony, and prosperity for all Indians. I don’t think we ought to be satisfied with RSS. Surely India can do better and create an organisation not linked to caste, religion, or authoritarianism. We are in the 21st century now!

Regards
Sanjeev
http://sanjeev.sabhlokcity.com/breakingfree.html

@Sri Sanjeev,

“I’ve not been able to read your post entirely fully nor the comments” – I think you might have saved time both yours and others’ if you had read everything, as I believe some of your comments on early RSS leaders’ statements are answered in the comments. Secondly, what is the use in responding without reading and understanding the counter points completely? After all the discussion is to bring the truth out and everyone should be sincere in reading the responses. Just a humble opinion.

“Agreed, that is what happens today, for the most part. As I have cited, this was no so in the past” – So what is your philosophy? Because it was not inclusive (as per your understanding) during early years, it is bad now even if it is inclusive now? So, do you suggest that past should decide the present in all cases? btw, which RSS were you talking about?

“To see a very large group of hindus taking arms training” – First, the group also contains Non-hindus as you ‘agreed’ above. Second, by your logic, non-hindus will also get afraid of Sikhs flagging swords, hindus will get scared merely to see a small group of long bearded kurta-clan muslim groups. So your argument that this training is wrong is not convincing to brand RSS as unnecessary.

“materials I cited above are largely quite rigorous” – did you swear on the peers who reviewed these articles by Mr Joseph and Cinthya Mahmood? I wouldn’t like to swear on biased peer reviewed western articles. What if Talibans say their policies are rigorously peer reviewed by their academical circle. I had an instance where our marketing department submitted a complaint on finance department after a rigorous peer review amoung themselves, only to be questioned later.

I do hope I have not made any personal remarks.

#23 Thanks for acknowledgment. I have posted this several times in your blog. This is not hit out or hurt somenone , but to educate.

Here is an article by Koenraad Elst. In it he basically states that most experts agree that the Hindutva movement is dead.

http://www.vijayvaani.com/FrmPublicDisplayArticle.aspx?id=400

Does that mean that Hindu Nationalism is dead?

The idea that Hindus and Christians and Muslims of India want the same things is idealistic and patently false. Hindus want to preserve a Hindu nation, whereas the both the Catholic Church and the Al-Umma have the stated intentions of destroying the Hindu nation and replacing its indigenous religion with their own. When respected world leaders such as the Pope basically state that they want to destroy our religion (which is what is meant by the term “planting a cross”) we need to take them at their word.

It is always enticing to think that we can have mutual understanding with interfaith dialogue and a more inclusive nationalist movement. But is that even true? For there to be true pluralism, all religious groups have to agree to a basic set of rules which include respect and acceptance of other religions with no stated desire to convert or destroy. Let us see if these will work with the Church.

Fair point, Incognito.

I think Mr. Sanjeev first should read himself about Hinduism and RSS and then express his thoughts. We all are citizens of free world and are accountable for our work and saying, so Mr. Sanjeev also as he himself is a believer of freedom.
Ideally you should not try find faults in someone else from Hindusthan until you do your homework (not just reading from westerner’s ideologies and theories about Hinduism when they have not studied Hinduism).
I request Mr. Sanjeev to first come back to India and study Hinduism and then try and improve it nobody will stop you. But just writing books on India from foreign shores doesn’t suffice.
If you believe that RSS is a militant organization then come here object its working. try and improve it for the sake of nation and world.

This is probably why we need a militant Hindu organization.
Check out this poor Swami beaten by the Communists. Where is the mass outrage? So where is the RSS or the VHP when such things happen?

http://hindusamhati.blogspot.com/2008/07/another-outrage-in-bengal-hindu-monk-of.html

“anti-muslim speeches which many believe consolidated the Muslim vote against the party”

It’s really a great statement – one speech by Varun consolidates the Muslim votes against the party, but, the aftermath of the speech and whatever happened with Varun, really failed to unite the so called Hindus and go all out and vote for the party. I don’t think it was Varun’s fault. He was just campaigning for his party!

It was the fault of the so called Hindus who really did not seem to come in support of Varun and his party.

Personal Update: There is a debate going on within the FTI google group re. RSS and its activities.

Although I am not a member of the RSS, I support a number of their initiatives such as education of poor and deprived tribals living in remote areas.

More as things become clearer.

Adding this link here for the sake of record:

Transcript of Sh Mohan Bhagwat’s recent interview to TimesNow

and the video link

Interesting read:

A Knock On Our Closed Ears:

Mohan Bhagwat has underlined the pan-Indian appeal of the RSS and its vision. But is the media listening?

by Tarun Vijay

The many interpretations goes to show how ridiculous the ideology claimed for Hindutva has always been because it was never the ideology it was claimed to be. If one thing any ideology is supposed to be about is its crystal clarity: hindutva fails that test.

This inability to free the Hindu mind of the symbols from the actual meaning of the words has probably got more to do with our failure for ruthless analysis which goes with the Hindu philosophy of the many forms that characterises Hinduism.

I am now more than ever convinced that the time has come for the decent burial of hindutva not because it is in any sense fundamentalist but because it is devoid of any real and significant meaning. This sterile debate about the meaning of Hindutva is seriously impairing the focus on Hindu interests that a political party such as the BJP should be concentrating on.

http://www.haindavakeralam.com/HkPage.aspx?PAGEID=9408&SKIN=B

Rejoinder to Javed Anand’s letter to RSS Sarsanghchalak
16/10/2009 13:07:01

Shantanu,

🙂

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinayak_D._Savarkar#Gandhi_murder_Case_and_Acquittal_of_Savarkar
Incidentally digambar badge had said in court that he had seen vd give his blessings to dogse. something like a “yashasvi ye”.
he got away with legal punishment. but didn’t get away with much else. he like hitler committed suicide in desperation. and will be remembered as a vile man by history.

also, http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/southasia/History/Hindu_Rashtra/nathuram.html (third para here, Sardar Patel’s views)

On Mookerji’s stated & actual reason for leaving the hms, http://drsyamaprasadmookerjee.org/about_bio2.html (second para)

And Shantanu, I’m really not keen on examing every hindutva rewriting of events. There is evidence about the Aryans being outsiders, in genetics, in linguistics & I choose to believe it. All other claims are just claims, not backed by any scientific evidence. Until that happens, History remains what it is. Bombay ko mumbai bataana, Ahmedabad ko amdavad bolna… bahut jhooTh ko sach batlaana dekh rahe hai.n hum sab. jaagenge kab, pataa nahi…

Rohit,

What I like is the shift towards calling advani, vajpayee etc. stupid, weak & characterless.
What I like even more is the appearance of the crack. May it widen, then split.

What I am amused by is the reference to narendra, varun & aayaraam-gayaraam kalyan singh as leaders of calibre! Are you sure your comment is not a satire? 🙂

Like I’ve said before, look up Sakaldwipi or Maga Brahmins.

And I went through your link. Either I’m unable to find what you’re referring to or you’re reading too much into that page. Nowhere does the interview claim what you are saying.

And to anyone who has an exposure to a World Education, it’s common knowledge that:
Adam was not born into poverty, 🙂
that Moses was raised as a prince in the palace of the Pharaoh,
that Jesus was a sturdy carpenter (if we choose to discard the son of God argument) who spent years wandering like the Buddha in search of enlightenment,
that Muhammed was a successful trader of the rich & powerful ruling tribe he ultimately opposed.

sir, what have you been reading up until now? 🙂

*** COMMENT EDITED & COMBINED ***

@Aman !!! You have said enough. Now do enlighten yourself. People can be no longer fooled by these cock and bull stories. Here is a write from the west trying to prove how bible is a repulsive book. My apologies to the blog owner for putting it all here

***

Chritian religion is based primarily on one book ie Bible and it is presumed that every word in Bible has to be believed and obyed.

This book has been analysed thoroughly in the West and people are finding that it could not have been writen or dictated by God the almighty and One who knows all.

This book seems to be written by some paranoid mind who believes in slavery , revenge , blookshed at drop of hat, sexism and lot of other obnoxious thoughts.

It is a great surprise that this hoax has not been discovered till now . And the saddest part is that followers of this corrupted religion look down on other religions like Hiduism without understanding their own religion. They want to convert others to follow this obnoxious book written by some corrupted paranoid minds

Please google’ proving bible is repulsive ‘ and you will be astounded by the evidence and logice given by the writer who proves beyond a shade of doubt that bible is so repulsive. The writers goes overboard saying that the God is imaginery but that is a separate issue and can be contested

I would request Aman to go through the matter mentioned by me above and then take the right path in life and stop living in darkness

*** NOTE by MODERATOR ***

Ashok: Pl. don’t misuse the space meant for discussion. Pl. put a link here or post brief excerpts. Hope you understand. Thanks.

All: Pl. stay on topic. This thread is meant for a discussion on/about RSS only.
Off-topic comments will be deleted without notice.

@ aman at 67.

the first link goes to great length to demonise swami lakshmananda.

quote from <a href=Express:

Kandhamal Superintendent of Police S Praveen Kumar told the SC Mohapatra Commission of inquiry, probing the killing and subsequent riots, here today.

Kumar said that Naxalites generally do not interfere in religious matters.

The SP said that all over India tribals are the recruitment and expansion base of the Naxalites. But in Kandhamal, it seemed that they sided with the non-tribals, he said during cross examination.

Unquote. To the fair and balanced the Jury is still out. Regarding the post murder violence, any violence is unjustified. The state should have controlled it. If it was RSS sponsored, the law should take its course.

reg the second link. it was an article by Dr. John Dayal. eod.

Cheers!!!

Sridhar

Shantanu,

This is now getting interesting. 🙂

I’m going to try & rebut each of your points one by one.

@ Aman: I don’t know if you have formally studied history (I have not) but to assume that it is written by “observers” and it finds an “equilibrium” is dangerously naive and optimistic!

And to assume that each observer/historian had an agenda or malintent is an extremely cynical approach. To me that is “not the sign of an open mind”.

I am not saying ALL our history is biased and twisted..but I am arguing that there are several instances of distortions and deliberate obfuscations to suit political agendas as clearly mentioned in this NCERT directive: https://satyameva-jayate.org/2007/07/19/lies-and-half-truths/

Again I say, IF you can quote an NCERT link, I will be more inclined to examine what you’re quoting. Provinding a bharatvani link will make me look at it with mistrust. I trust you understand the word “nuetrality”.

Now you can say that you don’t believe in the directive because it is from an article by Sh Sita Ram Goel – or because it is from a site that you don’t trust…That to me is not the sign of an open mind. If you are really keen, you would unearth the directive and prove that Sh Goel is/was wrong – otherwise you would accept that it *may* be true.

This I have just addressed above. I believe the responsibility lies with you to thoroughly examine a source, it’s neutrality, “unearth the directive” before submitting the claim.

And while on that, what do you have to say about my recent posts on Buddhism’s decline in India? or to pick a more volatile topic – t he evidence around Shri Ram Janmabhoomi?

It may be a good idea not to veer off topic. But it’s your blog… On Buddishm’s decline, I suggest you read up DD Kosambi. Lots of Kosambi! 🙂

You have made several statements in your last few comments about history, Sangh-Parivar, “Aryan Invasion Theory”, Taj Mahal, Kandhamal, National Flag etc etc. Thats not the way to have an informed discussion.

I don’t see your point…

Pick up one example of a “distortion” – and we can debate that rather than having a generic argument with sweeping generalisations which lead nowhere.
For starters, you may want to read this book: http://www.flipkart.com/rss-school-texts-murder-mahatma/8178298546-4v23fch57e
& this: http://www.hinduonnet.com/2009/04/15/stories/2009041555871100.htm

As for Sh Goel being laughable because of his ideological leanings, ever heard of something called “”Ad Hominem”, Aman?
Ever consider Shantanu, that I may have dug a little into the stuff that elst & goel write, dug into their background to see where they’re coming from, before I dismissed them?

And please don’t undermine your credibility by making statements like “Romila Thapar in contrast has no such leanings”!
Can you please come up with something more concrete than that? 😀

I cannot comment on texts used by Sangh Parivar. I am not a member – neither are you, I assume. But I know about the NCERT texts from which I learnt about “History” – these were the same texts that were written under the “guidelines” I have mentioned above.
addressed above already. please quote a reliable source.

And as for preaching “violent means in the land of Mahavir, Buddha, Kabir & Gandhi”, this land is equally the land of MahaBharat and the Bhagavad-Gita where Krishna exhorted Arjun to pick up arms to defend “Dharma”.
Sure, but the human race must evolve. The efforts of Mahavir, Buddha & Gandhi were to help the human race evolve beyond means of violent resolution.

As for “bullying Christians” there are appropriate threads to discuss these topics. Pl use the “search” box at the bottom of the page and you will find something that is more relevant to what you want to say. The right thread for discussing missionary activities is this: https://satyameva-jayate.org/2009/10/18/missionaries-targeting-india-5/

Will paste my links on that thread 🙂

Finally re. national flag being hoisted at the Sangh Shakhas, I do not know. I am not a member of the Sangh. But you would know that the national flag was not allowed to be flown by individuals and private organisations up until a few years ago.
If that is indeed the case, why were the jokers insisting on flying the National Flag at Idgah Maidan in Hubli? Hypocrisy? Or Troublemaking? Sir… maan lo baat… duniya maantee hai! 🙂

Note that I will not respond anymore to any general statements you make – only specific points – on appropriate threads (pl. use the “Search” box at the bottom or try the “Categories” drop-down menu on the right hand side bar to find the appropriate post(s).

I am at a point now where I am wondering whether there is any point in my devoting time to discussions here. If nothing’s gonna come of it, if we’re not going to move towards calling a spade a spade, in the interest of National Harmony, Peace, Unity & Integrity, then why bother with the effort. Right?

@Aman!!! On your querry ; ‘have you read bible’. Yes Sir I have read and even analysed it. And I am aghast that in this world a lie can go so far. I do not want to get into a debate with you. I really have no patience to answer your silly on-the-surface smart querries. You can say what you want. You all hate RSS because it is one organisation which the proselytising gangs fear to an extent and this is one element that you cannot buy despite your buying power

I have met some people who are converts to christianity. They all posses a queet mindset and have a deep inferiority complex and they want to vehementaly declare that they have really found peace and God and all their ancestors have lived in darkness and are probable rotting in hell.

I just want to tell you a parting logic. You all live in peace because the basic fabric of Indian society is based on Indic religions. If Islam and christianity become the two leading religions in India ; all that you will see here will be crusades and jihads which the world has seen for last on thousand years with both groups yelling ‘my God is greater than yours’. So do have mercy on us ; spare India. Let the RSS do what good work it is doing

*** COMMENT EDITED ***

Patriotism they say is the last refuge of the scoundrel

The above applies to folks like you Aman, and also to folks like MK Gandhi, JL Nehru, Vir Sanghvi etc.

(1) Veer Sawarkar was never fed to gallows (2) Veer Sawarkar was never convicted for crime

Rohit:

No. It applies to people like you.

1) If I wasn’t a Gandhian, I would’ve said that he should have been sent to the gallows.

2) He got away with that crime you mean. At that moment. But History remembers him as being the main conspirator behind the crime. In India, people frequently get away with murder. hkl bhagat for ’84, bal thakre for ’92. savarkar was just another criminal who escaped the law. But he couldn’t escape history. he will always be remembered as a one time freedom fighter who became a criminal.

Proof?

To know how he got away on “technicalities” despite being believed to be guilty, read this excerpt from a book written by a Supreme Court advocate and a leading Constitutional expert: http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl2006/stories/20030328003603400.htm

Also read this link: http://www.merinews.com/article/was-veer-savarkar-really-a-brave-patriot/140594.shtml

It shows that weakling savarkar sent a fax to the british authorities begging to be released from jail, saying:

I hereby acknowledge that I had a fair trial and just sentence. I heartily abhor methods of violence resorted to in days gone by and I feel myself duty bound to uphold law and constitution to the best of my powers and I am willing to make the [1919 Montague-Chelmsford Reforms] a success in so far as I may be allowed to do so in future.

_______

ashok:

So you aren’t a man of your word. 🙂
Not surprising, considering the jokers you look up to are two faced themselves.

Anyway… here are some short takes for you.

– I don’t do propaganda. That will explain partly what I have against the rss.

– Conversion is a personal choice. Heard of free will? Nobody needs religion (or conversion) to find God, but some people believe it does. To each his own.

– It can be. It is in places. Knowledge is available all over. I was taught about Rama, Christ, Krishna, Buddha, Mahavir, Kabir, Nanak, Moses & Muhammed. I guess I was lucky. Today if I encounter someone trying to influence my views, I change their funda. 🙂

– I am aware that you don’t know whether Gandhi said that. Which is why I told you! 🙂
To you Gandhi was a shrewd politician. To Tagore, he was a Mahatma.
He was against conversion or overt evangelism yes, but I don’t recall him calling it cruel.
If you think it is cruel, talk to the rss about their ghar-vapasi programme & lakshmiananda’s followers.

– I suggest you read the Bible when you’re not on lsd. Which line are you referring to as specifically horrifying? 🙂

– Where exactly is it implied that the religion commonly referred to as Hinduism is narrow minded??? Your comprehension is a problem. Which explains your views on everything.

*** COMMENT EDITED ***

Aman,

Veer Sawarkar was never convicted by any court.

*** NOTE by MODERATOR ***

Rohit: Pl. be restrained in your comments.

*** Comment moved here ***

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/RSS-opposes-caste-based-census/articleshow/5966103.cms

@J.C.Moola

I posted my response to Shantanu’s questions but it hasn’t been displayed on this forum yet. I tried to post it again and got an error saying I am trying to post a duplicate comment.

@Shantanu

Any reason that could happen? Should I try posting the reply again?

*** NOTE by MODERATOR ***

Retrvd frm spam queue – maybe too many links. Thanx

conclusion:- Hate against muslims

reason:-
“http://www.sanghparivar.org/blog/rkm/what-the-islamic-invaders-did-to-india

This is just one of the many articles by the way.

Here’s a link that makes outrageous claims about the Muslim population growth: Here’s the first line from that page “hindus’ life & death will be at the mercy of muslim!”

This alarmist scaremongering against muslims, combined with the many references made on that blog to the Islamic invasions by, what I could fairly safely take to be the Sangh sympathisers at the least, gives me sufficient ground the draw my inferences.”

@ashish

1.are you challenging the facts as stated in the article reffered.

2.if you accept the facts would the hatred /anger against the muslims pepetrating the acts be justified in your view.

3.or do you think that the hatred may be justified against the persons reffered to in the article but is not justified against the present generation of muslims.

4.if your answer to 3 is yes then can you provide any proof that the present day muslims are isulated from the feeling/thinking of their ancestors,and are unspporting of the acts of their ancestors.

dear mr ashish,

i’m not going to spread canvas for i want to have a focussed xchng.

so keeping to your response i would say:-

1.the names are not important they are only representational of acts.

2.i take it that in your view hatred towards these perpetrators is childish. actully the better word was abhor.i do abhor these acts. so let it be that.i’ll be childish you be the adult not to.

3.you are proud of the indian islamic history.but you have’nt clarified that the aforementioned acts are part of the indian islamic history that you are proud of.so it can be taken that you are proud of that part of the indian islamic history as well.

4.who talked about apologising? ihad only mentioned regarding supporting / opposing such mentality as was displayed by the persona involved in what is in your view “proud to be of indian islamic history” w.r.t.the acts as mentioned in the article.

5.so i take it that you have’nt replied to my point no 4.

6.i will take up the points raised by you after i receive a definitive response to the points i have raised till now.i hope i have not spread the canvas for you,but if you feel otherwise pls. let me know.

sid,

thnx.
you had very beautifully argued,but i just want to see things for myself.as you can see i’m not bothetred about titles that have been already bestowed.

but thnx for ur intervention.

@shantanu

i hope i’m not splitting hairs?or is it.

@Ashish

“Did you refer to ‘World vision’ the charity? I wasn’t aware of this charity so couldn’t support or oppose it. But if you meant something else, I am sorry. Please correct me and I shall respond.”

You are calling Worldvision a charity and haven’t heard much about it and but you are comparing RSS with Al Queda..Well I am not surprised. I don’t blame you I blame media for this.

I think you should start at this blog, this has enough information on lot of current political and social issues facing Bharat.

Couple of other observations –
1. Now this one is from other thread – But the religion your Mom taught you ( since you mentioned the incidence ) is the real Hinduism. Tolerant and all inclusive. And that Hinduism needs to be protected. So anyone who wants to protect Hinduism is not working against other religions. Especially because Hinduism has no concept of proselytisation. So protecting Hindu interest and Hinduism doesn’t mean not being tolerant to other religions on non-inclusive as you already conveyed through that incident.

2.While You seem to understand Hinduism( except that Nag and Maneka comment which made no sense at all, it felt like British trying to transalte Vedas, anyways ) you are continuously mixing Hinduism with
the politics of VHP and Bajrang Dal etc…Not to forget that they were able to create that space for themselves due to Government’s minority appeasement policies and overzealous conversions by other religions…

3.You are feeding a lot on English Media…I understand your Atheism but that seems more in retaliation to current world scenario then trying to understand your own faith.

4. On science and God – No Science is not able to explain everything..Black Holes are still a mystery and we don’t fully understand what caused Big Bang. SO regardless of God exists or not, science has not proven its non-existence. There is very little Science is able to explain and we have just started. If Science was there where it would replace God we won’t be pumping trillions of petro dollars in Middle East and financing both sides of the war. We would have built and perpetual energy source by now..or at least would not be dependent on Fossil Fuel…This one really went on a tangent but isn’t that’s what we are doing for last couple of days any ways….

@Anupam, no, I honestly didn’t know World vision. I did a quick google search and came across this http://www.worldvision.org.uk/

1. Now the Hinduism that my mom taught me is well alive and kicking! I don’t think it needs to be protected. If someone must protect it anyway, they should just leave it alone. That would be a huge favour.

2. If most of the commentators on the other post had agreed to dissociate Hinduism with the Sangh politics, we wouldn’t have had such a long, and mostly, insensible discussion. I am afraid they didn’t!

3. Let’s not get back to my religious opinions. With all due respect, you don’t know me enough to make that judgement about me. I hope you appreciate that!

4. On science and god, we really don’t need to argue. We could agree to disagree about the existence or otherwise of a supernatural being. Let science take its due course and future determine the outcome. For time being, let’s call peace on this subject!

@ashish

1. 4a.irelevant HOW?care to reason.

2. 4b.partly right.but my f-i-l etc…

3.muslims returning can be explained on the basis of regional chauvinism faced by these dreamy eyed votaries(who were not much in any case)in their el-dorado.

4.but my point was not about muslims it was about hindus who were cleansed,any ideas on that.or is it irrelevant without reason.

5.so your f-i-l is the prism through which you see this situation spanning centuries.you are in safe hands.

6.happy star gazing while we look for our solutions.

“2. If most of the commentators on the other post had agreed to dissociate Hinduism with the Sangh politics, we wouldn’t have had such a long, and mostly, insensible discussion. I am afraid they didn’t!”

Sangh is not a political party. I don’t thin the contest elections..as far as I am aware…I did not put Sangh in my list if you look back at my comment…

Okay… I am not proud of all the religious aggressions… I come from Marathwada, Maharashtra… Nizam’s soldiers… stories with tears in his eyes.

This doesn’t make you perfect or entitle you to be supreme authority on non muslims/ non christians. You may be a Zakir Naik; a wolf in sheep clothing who hides from debates @ http://agniveer.com/ or an evangelist who has been bought by Church.

Now I look forward with great interest to your justification to the claims that India will be declared Islamic republic by 2050, among others!

Can you predict future? Can you predict what will be the number of Hindoos in Srinagar after 10 years versus what is now, what was in 1947 and what was in days before Timur the Lame and his nomadics arrived? Do you have a chart with CAGR of muslims in geography of India (Geography from Chandragupt Maurya era)? We now look forward with great interest to your predictions.

Shantanu,

I wrote a big comment in last five-10 minutes and it is not showing..

Anupam

*** NOTE by MODERATOR ***

Retrieved. Thanx for alerting

@Anupam

1) If they are struggling for a one square meal, knowledge of Hinduism isn’t going to fill their stomaches anyway. What they need is not Hinduism but an opportunity to make a living. Hinduism is only as good at offering this opportunity as Islam or Christianity is!

2) I am really not going to get drawn in discussing what happened in Pakistan, Bangladesh, South America or anywhere else in the world. What matters is India and that’s where I would restrict my argument. I know Goa very well – it’s my second home – and I know for a fact that Hinduism is still the largest religion in the state followed by Christianity somewhere at 30%-odd.

The inquisitions were condemned throughout the world and now even the Church has distanced itself from it. The question is not what happened in the past, the question is what is the likelihood of another inquisition taking place, not only in India but anywhere in the world? Very unlikely.

We live in a very different world from what was even 50 years ago and we need to see the world from that perspective.

3) Thanks. I will have a look at the links that you provided.

4) Again, without going into each and every Muslim organization, I must reiterate the nth time that I abhor any extremist activities in the name of religion, race, caste or anything else. Islam is a dangerous religion and many of its teachings are deplorable and those who are adamant on following them to the word must be checked. However, not every Muslim follows Koran and Hadiths to the word and I personally know many who are as liberal as I am and I see no difference between them and me.

On the points you raised:

1) No. In fact, I think exactly the opposite. The lesser people are aware of religions, the better it is for everyone. I haven’t seen much evidence of any religion doing anything worthwhile in this world.

2) Hinduism is not a solution to the caste system, liberalism is.

3) Aaryan/Dravidian is more of a racial issue and cannot be compared with Bramhin/Dalit issue. Again, Hinduism is not a solution for racial issues. Nelson Mandela and Martin Luther King brought about racial harmony in their respective countries without preaching them Hinduism.

I’ve already made it very clear on another post somewhere on this blog that Hinduism is not synonymous to the idea of Indian-ness. The idea of India is too broad to be defined only by Hinduism and vice versa.

@Anupam

1) 50 years is a very short time but a lot has changed within this short time. End of colonialism, end of apartheid, women’s liberation in most of the world, internet bringing the world closer together….

4) And my fear is that these forward-looking muslims are being alienated very rapidly. I personally know of a friend who was declined a house in Mumbai because he was a muslim.

2) I couldn’t agree more

3) Well, we all humans are once race if you come to think of it. So I don’t think we need any research to prove that people living in India are of one race. But if such a research is indeed available, then I think it must be taught in schools and not through some hideous religious organizations.

4) I thought that you thought that I do understand Hinduism (comment 108. Point 2) . But apparently you are not so sure now. But this particular argument (reg. Hinduism) is turning into a dog-tail. If Hinduism is all about India, why are so many Hindu religious organizations spreading it all over the world? Another commentator on another post on this blog commented that “Hinduism is not limited to Bharat”. I am not sure there is consensus within the Hinduism brigade about the definition of Hinduism.

5) I am with you on this point. If religious organizations want to spread their beliefs and convince people about their usefulness without any government assistance, they are more than welcome. They, however, cannot, and must not be allowed to, put up political fronts to achieve their political ambitions.

@Anupam

“Good Debate..enjoyed/learned a lot”

Same here 🙂

Here’s an great extract “The Sangh as Dinosaur” from Elst’s site on the state of affairs amongst the RSS crowd.

http://koenraadelst.voiceofdharma.com/books/bjp/section9.html

Sanjay

“There are many websites on the Internet, which are doing some excellent work for the *global Hindu cause and movement*… We will try to introduce and appreciate all such efforts in this reviews section.” (http://rssonnet.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=36&Itemid=53)

* Global Hindu cause and movement? Hey, whatever happened to the “Hindu… people this side of Sindhu… Bharat…everyone born in India is Hindu” funda?

And what exactly is this “Global Hindu movement” that RSS is endorsing by the way?

Homophobia anyone?

“The RSS Chief K.S. Sudarshan went on record on June 14 in Nagpur to argue that the controversial film Girlfriend “seeks to introduce unnatural ideas of homosexuality in our society … practices that have cost society dear and are responsible for new diseases like AIDS”. He was on live TV expressing his “worry” about the effect of the film on the moral character of girls, and argued the movie “would encourage same-sex love, when countries like Australia are trying to pass laws against it…It is against our culture” This outburst came when he was asked for his views on the violent protests led by the moral police headed by Shiv Sena on grounds of the film being “objectionable and against Indian culture”. – http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?224205

Okay. Enough for today. More to come soon!

“While the evidence available so far, as reported in the media, points towards the involvement of some members of the Hindu community suspected to be sympathetic to the RSS ideology and even some cadres of the RSS… Allegations of saffron terrorism or RSS-inspired terrorism are uncalled for.”

What more one needs to be inspired by RSS than being a cadre of that organization?

“…The Hindu religion needs a dedicated, articulate and boldly active organisation like the RSS”

I thought Hindu is not a religion!! But anyway, I hope RSS gets its head around this question sooner than later 😛

Surprisingly, this article doesn’t denounce the attacks; it only dissociates itself from the crime. But I am sure they’ve denounced these attacks on some other forums (at least, that’s the hope!).

On conversions, so what if people want to follow Islam or Christianity? If they were born in India, they would still be Hindus, wouldn’t they? If not, are the current Christians and Muslims of India Indians?

Btw, Pakistan says pretty much the same things about JuD what RSS claims about itself in the last two paras.

The links that I had provided earlier were from the “official” RSS website. I thought they were very explicit.

Shantanu,
Please release my comment from queue.

*** NOTE by MODERATOR ***

Comment has been retrieved (#140). Thank you.

Ashish,

The rest will follow but the prove how close the Sangh is to Nazi thinking, here’s a taster:

http://www.sanghparivar.org/blog/deepu-rss/nationalism-redefined-assimilate-its-ethnic-cleansing-time


The link brings us to a page where it is written:
Note: Content of this blog post is writer's personal opinion and may not be SanghParivar.org or Sangh's view
This is the ultimate example of your intellectual honesty – taking a random blog post and attributing to an organization.

1) Fascist and totalitarian

(http://rssonnet.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=18&Itemid=35)

Let us see the full quote:
Our ancestors, culture and nation are same. Some people say proudly that they are Hindu, some says with little bit of hesitation that they are Hindu , some know they are Hindu , some do not know that they are Hindu . To unite this country there is only one way – Hindu way. Whenever there was influence of Hinduism, nation was prosperous and whenever there was lack of Hindu feelings nation suffered and we paid a huge price. Even today, wherever there is lack of Hindu feelings or Hindu population we have multiple problems in that area of nation.
Any independent reader should read it full and understand. What is Hindu way anyway? Look at the underlined portion. Did you read the article in full or did a google search? As I said, you are just great.

2) Bigoted and Xenophobic

Everyone in our country is very much aware that the huge amounts of foreign funds coming from certain countries, received by the Christian groups are being diverted only for religious conversion of Hindu followers to Christian faith all over the country. After the British period, Christian missionaries have been in the country’s backyard with the help of American funding and political support.”
http://rssonnet.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=80&Itemid=26

For your own benifit, I am attaching the dictionary meaning of the word bigoted. Please explain how the definition applies to the above paragraph that you quoted.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bigoted


Time has come for the awakened Hindu Society should to shed its image of being docile, always prone to be bullied and attacked by others. We never go to attack anybody but if anybody attacks, in self-defense we should never hesitate to resist. The resistance should be such that the attackers get a lesson that we have authority of law to retaliate in self-defense. The self-defense should be such that the attackers get a lesson for their life that the attack on the Hindu society will only be counter productive.
http://rssonnet.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=80&Itemid=26

I am attaching the meaning of the word xenophobic here:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/xenophobia

Show me how asking Hindus to stand against their attacker is a xenophobia. Or would you be satisfied if Hindus were advised to follow ahimsa Gandhi-style and donate their lives to their enemies?

3) Islamophobic

“Even though India doesn`t believe in ethnic cleansing as Hitler did in Germany to Jews, if pushed to the limits of tolerance then the idea of cleansing to restructure the Cultural nationality is wide open.” – says it all!”

The first link is a guest post from Islam Watch blog and the fact that Sangh Parivar necessarily does not agree to it’s view is well documented to those who can read plain English. And I did not find the sentence in the blog post. There are similar sentences in thousands of blogs and forums in the internet including here.

The second is a link to a forum where there are other protesters who protested the poster’s views. That is a discussion forum, I do not know why Sangh has to take resposibility for someone else’s post.

I have already commented about third link.

4) Homophobic

“The RSS Chief K.S. Sudarshan went on record on June 14 in Nagpur to argue that the controversial film Girlfriend “seeks to introduce unnatural ideas of homosexuality in our society … practices that have cost society dear and are responsible for new diseases like AIDS”. He was on live TV expressing his “worry” about the effect of the film on the moral character of girls, and argued the movie “would encourage same-sex love, when countries like Australia are trying to pass laws against it…It is against our culture” This outburst came when he was asked for his views on the violent protests led by the moral police headed by Shiv Sena on grounds of the film being “objectionable and against Indian culture”. – http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?224205

I do not get into an argument about Homo-sexuality here, but this can very well be true.

5) Anti-social

http://rssonnet.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=80&Itemid=26

I see. If “Chakka Jam” is anti-social what would you call left parties in my state or other political parties who call Bandhs every now and then? Are they not anti-social too?

6) Other crazy beliefs and arguments that don’t have labels

Most of our politicians are hypocrites who spend their mornings performing rituals in Hindu temples and publicly proclaim that they visit Masjids to pray to be born as a Muslim in their next life!
http://rssonnet.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=90&Itemid=26

So the Sarsanghchalak appears to have an issue with sex education. Organization itself may have an issue with it. Although I support sex education at some level of education, I can not see what is so nazi like in this comment. Would you care to show us how Hitler stopped sex education or something?

For the second comment, I have a practical example. HD Devegauda, our former Prime Minister. He is well known in Bangalore for expressing his wish of being born as Muslim whenever the election time is near. But he also visits temple in the morning. One true face of a secular !!!

Summing it up, except gay-phobia, none of your charges stand. I believe the one of the only few good things that come under UPA’s reign is the de-criminalization of the gays. But then even Vatican is gay-phobia oriented. Are you going to call Vatican a nazi organization? But keeping your intellectual honesty in mind, you can claim so and deny so later. I would not be surprised.

*** NOTE by B Shantanu ***

Comments with several links may sometimes get stuck in the spam queue…If you feel this has happened with your comment, pl leave a brief comment here or email me at jaidharma AT gmail.com
Thanks.

@Ashish,

I have come across many excuses from the Sangh apologists but this has got to be one of the lamest. Anyway, Sid, I think you could demonstrate your intellectual honesty by not conveniently ignoring Golwalkar’s comment that I posted in my comment and then we could begin to talk about intellectual honesty.

I see. So according to you, regardless of what disclaimer Sangh may post in their website, you would not accept it since you have decided that they are what exactly you call them they are. Good ones!

1)Thanks for the entire comment. I was going to include it but thought the ‘Hindu is the only way’ would suffice.
You did that because you knew that would twist the entire meaning and may support your case of fascism.

But clearly it didn’t for you. If you read the comment carefully, you’ll see that this guy brands everyone a ‘Hindu’, whether or not you agree with it. What could be more totalitarian than that? My ex-girlfriend has a Portuguese ancestry. She’s not a Hindu, not even by the silly ‘this-side-of-sindhu’ definition. But she’s an Indian! There are many Anglo-Indians who were either not born in India or were born to non-Indian parents. They are all Indians!
You have ranted about your ex-girlfriend etc, because you simply can not show what is so fascist about it or totalitarian about it. Where did he say that everyone is Hindu? I am not able to see where he said that all people who are Muslims/Christians are Hindus? Where did he exactly say that any non Hindu is not Indian? Where did he ask that everyone else has to be Hindu to be Indian?

So don’t rub that ‘what’s Hindu anyway?’ in my face, will ya?
Now, tell us the truth – you searched for the meaning of Xenophobic after my post, didn’t you? :)
I have nothing to do your face, I do not have a habit of getting personal on a blog. It is your indignance, arrogance and immaturity that show in such comments.

2)Oh yeah? FOREIGN funds are being diverted ONLY for religious conversions? How does he know? Since you love facts and evidences so much Sid, why don’t you please help us out here. And what’s wrong with Christians missionaries funding conversions? Shouldn’t everyone have a right in a free society to spread their religions, faiths, political ideologies etc? Isn’t this an UNREASONABLE fear that they are converting Hindu followers to Christian faith ALL OVER THE COUNTRY? –

What is so xenophobic here? Where is the hatred of foreign people? If everyone has the right to spread their religion, then everybody has the right to speak about foreign funds being diverted and has the right to have a personal opinion about the foreign funds.
By that supposed right of spreading each religion, if Sangh goes ahead and re-convert some non-Hindus, would you donate money to them? Should you call your ex-girlfriend and ask her to convert to Hinduism, after all everybody has a right to spread their religion in a free society?
About facts, few months back Shantanu posted a very long thread about foreign funding for religious conversion with enough links. I have seen conversion efforts with my eyes in Jharkhand and WB. How does he know? Show me how do you know that these foreign funds are not diverted? They were never audited as far as I know.
Also, I would like to know what is your proof regarding the fact that Christianity is being spread all over the nation? Bring us some incident, please?

3) No, it’s not a guest post – it’s very much a Sangh post SOURCED from islam-watch.org. Guest posts are different from sourced materials. – How do you know? Or is it a “Because I said so” argument?

Because the Sangh doesn’t disown the blog as you point out about the third link! I protest a lot of views expressed on this blog so are you telling me that Satyameva Jayate doesn’t believe in what it’s publishing? Let us ask Shantanu about it. Shantnau, do you believe everything every single poster publishes here?

For the third link, I will give it to you that the Sangh has published it on their website but disowned it too! Let us see. But the third link is posted on top too. What do we wee there? I quote again:
I have come across many excuses from the Sangh apologists but this has got to be one of the lamest ... you could demonstrate your intellectual honesty by not conveniently ignoring Golwalkar’s comment that I posted in my comment and then we could begin to talk about intellectual honesty ... Shows your depth of understanding. You can not seem to make up your mind.

4)It’s not an argument about homo-sexuality. It’s an argument about homophobia. They are two different things. – No they are same. This is a question about the similarity between Sangh/RSS and Nazis. But yes, they both are and were homophobic. But if that makes Sangh Nazis then Vatican and every other Christian church and Muslim sect is too are nazis. Yes/No?

5) This is about the Sangh and not about other political parties. Others do it doesn’t give you a right to do it too. And if you do exactly what others do, what’s the difference between you and them?
No, the question under discussion here is a comparison with nazi party. So if your comparison is that Nazi party has anti-socials and Sangh has anti-socials and thus they are same then by tha same logic other political parties are nazis too. Yes or no?

6) This is just one of the many insane opinions that the Sangh seems to hold.
What is so insane about this comment? Sex education is a topic that came up before and well known intellectuals and politican leaders protested it and some supported it too.
I didn’t use that comment to prove their Nazi leanings. I had said right at the start that I don’t need to build an argument to prove their Nazi credentials. So they are nazis because you said so, is not it?
Your beginning comment was this: On request from Sid to prove the similarities between Nazis and the Sangh. I don’t have to build an argument here. The following sentence says it all: The quote proves that you actually sought to accept my “request” to prove their nazi leanings and the began with a quote that was not endorsed by Sangh at all. And now you are denying it. Remember, when I told you that you are no stranger to self-contradiction?

7) Is Devegauda MOST of the politicians? – He is an example. There are many who wish to be born as Muslims again during the election times. Besides, do not forget he is a former PM.

“He is well known in Bangalore for expressing his wish of being born as Muslim” – Ask a Karnataka native. I heard it from a Kannadiga friend.

If you have any argument other than “because I said so” statement to prove nazi lineage of RSS/Sangh, then I would be happy to oblige. Else you can keep your indignance and self-contradiction continued, we all are enjoying it.

Have you heard about the rule of holes? – Is that a rule? Because you said so?

1) You haven’t refuted the Golwalkar statement. – I have not read Golwalkar’s book, I have no idea whether you are taking things out of context from there or not. Knowing you through your posts, you have a habit of taking things out of context and twist the meaning.

2) ...
I think you could easily decipher this message but if you fail to see “where he says all muslims and christians are hindus”, who are the people, who in his opinion “do not know that they are Hindu”. DO NOT KNOW THEY ARE HINDU? ...
Decipher? That is a job great minds like you do sir specially after taking it out of context. I read things entirely and understand it. I would leave the responsibility of deciphering to greats like you.

let’s leave it to the reader to make up his/her mind. – Apparently you did not because you kept on ranting.
To say that everyone is a Hindu, irrespective of their religious beliefs is totalitarian. – I did not see anything that said the irrespective of religious beliefs everyone is Hindu. It is your interpretation. This is my interpreation: There are many who follow the practices as recommended by Dharma or believe in Karmic cycle instead of believing childish sin-hell-heaven concept or believes in performing yoga instead of going to gym. That is a Hindu view of life. They may not consider Hindu as their religion, but because HInduism is a way of life (yes, it is), they still can be called Hindu because there is no official way to call someone Hindu.
I also predict that you can not accept my interpretation because it does nothing to confirm your bias and hatred against Sangh.
BTW, what about fascism? You forgot about that. Let us also see what is so fascist about the comment?

As I said And please, don’t start again with the ‘Hinduism-is-a-way-of-life’ rant because if that was true, you wouldn’t go on to talk about re-conversion to Hinduism. To the best of my knowledge, you can’t convert and re-convert people to a ‘way of life’! – Contrary to what you think, it is indeed possible to request people to adopt our way of life. You conveniently avoided answering the question about the right of a Hindu to spread adoption of his way of life in a free society.

The BLOG is written by the Sangh – How do you know? I hope that your excellency understands the difference between blog and forum ( http://www.sanghparivar.org/forum/when-muslims-will-become-absolute-majority-in-india-india-will-be-declared-islamic-country-if- ). Just because Sangh hosts the forum does not mean that it owns every comment. All other blog posts you cited are already noted as not Sangh’s official view. It is a different matter that you are not prepared to accept their acknowledgement of different views.

4) Xenophobia need not necessarily be hatred (although it almost always is!). It could also be an unreasonable fear of anything that’s foreign. And he not only demonstrates it in his statement but also seeks to spread it with unfounded claims. – A rare gem of logic. Commenting about diversion of foreign funds can be classified as Xenophobia. So when I say that American government gave a lot of their money (foreign fund) to ISI to help build Taliban in eighties, I am xenophobic then. Well played, sir !!!

If he could so confidently say that they are ONLY being used to convert people ALL OVER THE COUNTRY, I would expect some sort of evidence from him to prove it or I would expect him to shut up. – So why do not you ask him for proof? It was not my comment. We are only trying to see what is so xenophobic in his comment, not whether he makes hollow claim or not.

4) A guest post is when someone is invited to write on a forum and that entry is clearly marked ‘guest post’. This entry in question was marked ‘Sourced’, which means that the article is referenced to the source article, not written for the Sangh by a guest writer. – Point taken. It was a sourced material indeed. Still, where is the proof that Sangh wrote it? Or is it research pending or we need to accept because you say so?

5) My comparison of RSS with Nazis was completed with the statement that I extracted from the Sangh website ... – We have pretty much seen the status of such “extraction”.
and Golwalkar’s statement. – As I said, I can not comment that because I do not have access to source material.

The rest of it was to prove, on your request from the ‘Hindu terror’ thread, point-by-point that the Sangh is also a fascist and totalitarian, xenophonic, islamophobic, homophobic organization. While going through their website, I also came across some very uncomfortable statements and I decided to post them up here. – Except homophobia, you proved nothing on the other claims. You have taken everything out of context and when caught did not show the courtesy to admit it.

7) “He is an example. There are many who wish to be born as Muslims again” – and who are these many? – You want all the names? I can give you at least 5 Bengali lefty politicians who has made such claims at various times. You would not recognize their names, that is why I gave Devegauda as an example.

“I heard it from a Kannadiga friend” – and now suddenly, this is good enough for you? – What do you want me to do? Give you date, time and place where he said it?

Guess what, I used to go to the RSS shakha and I have heard first hand the hatred towards muslims and christians. – If you have then there is no surprise that you have met such men or such shakha. We are discussing the view of Sangh officially.

8) The funniest part is that you followed up this “If you have any argument other than “because I said so” statement to prove nazi lineage of RSS/Sangh” immediately after your “I heard it from a Kannadiga friend.” statement. Says it all about you! – That is a convenient way of avoiding my question on your self-contradiction and arrogance of “because I said so”.

Now knowing that you will never stop with you silly banter, I will retire. – I will say that is a good decision. After all, there is a limit to a stress a confused mind can take.

@Sid

You know what? I just realized that I am the one who used to go to a RSS shakha, I am the one who’s read Golwalkar’s book (because they swear by that book and almost every RSS cadre reads it!), I have experienced the Sangh first-hand and here you are who hasn’t read the book, who hasn’t been to a Shakha, who has no first-hand experience of the Sangh but you seem to have dreamed up the RSS “official line” whereas the things I’ve heard and seen in the RSS Shakha aren’t their “official line”.

Man that beats me!

@Sid

I know enough on RSS/Sangh that tells me that they are far cry from what nazi party were.

How? By not going to their shakhas? By not spending time with them? By not reading their literature?

IF you feel so strongly for them, the least you could do is get involved! Spend a few months in their shakha. Listen to what they say. Read their literature. Experience them and then form your opinions. You are making a fool of yourself by resorting to this armchair intellectualism.

I feel sorry for the RSS now. If they have defendants like you, they don’t need adversaries like me!

Sid – I don’t say this to offend you. Seriously man, get some perspective. For your own benefit. You may want to “get back” at me with some sarcastic remarks and I’ll take them on the chin but honestly, don’t treat this as an offence to you. I really don’t mean to offend you with this comment. I genuinely want you to know the RSS.

@Sid

Fair enough. We’ll call it even at that. Thanks for understanding my sentiments in the last post.

And sorry for all the offences. I try to keep my cool but do tend to lose it now and then.

Whatever happens, all I hope is we don’t mess up with our country. That’s it!

@ Deodhar,

Seriously man you need to attend some madarssa/ church teaching old testament to know the difference between genociders and patriots. Spending some time with Al Quaeda/ Taliban/ SIMI/ Deobandis/ LTTE/ North East Terrorists, Naxals will help you to gain knowledge unless the mind is closed and is fanatically bent to help Islam Jehad/ Christian Crusade brigade.

Rashtriya Muslim Manch started by RSS in 2002

http://muslimmanch.blogspot.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Rashtriya_Manch

@Pangla Nagendra Rao
Agree with your fact from the age of 9 till 25 i am part of RSS and i have never seen any evidence, any word against Muslim.

Let me quote on all critics being a part of RSS i am working with Seva Bhibag of RSS and we are working with Muslim Lady who is working for Cow preservation in India.

@All:- Its Natural for Critics of Sangh that they don’t understand there view and definitely hate them.

@ Sanjeev :- Dear Sanjeev sir I admire you as Liberal and your view for Nation.But let me share with you though i am very young( As B Shantanu said to me “Tum to bache ho abhi yrra”)but i am myself have liberal view from start and i feel proud that i have learned the Liberal idea from Dattopant Thengadi Pracharak of RSS and creator of Bharatiya Mazdoor Sangh and Bharatiya Kissan Sangh.Every one talks about Shri Guru Ji Nazi supporter but people don’t even read literature written by Muslim on Guru ji those who admire him for his liberal view on Hindu Muslim vision.

@All:- I am not pointing on any one social capacity but its RSS running 183756 service project across the world.
Critics of RSS are every where those who don’t understand there idea. Case filed against HSS international wing of RSS in UK. But HMS have given a clean cheat along with appreciation for there work.

There are millions of Volunteer of RSS across the Nation who died during every war working with Indian Army.
To say few 3000+ volunteer during Indo China war and list is end less for there work if we keep on writing probably i need to write million volume book.

@ Sanjeev Sir Again:-Sir if you some time find time than please do visit Himachal Pradesh we have Indian History research Center over there with dedicated historian researching over India History. So we are not changing History but we are correcting history to its correct form.

@All:- Now stop talking against thousand of Selfless Brahmchari those who have given there life to work for Nation. You haven’t seen a place where there are no roads still we have very good school and teacher over there.We don’t believe in Publicity so its request to you all please first check there work than create Post like this.

Last but not the least :-” Mein 15 sal se kam kar raha hmm Sangh ke sath mujhe sangh ko Samjhne ke liye aur 15 sal lag gyenge about there huge work for Nation toh Internet pe kuch post se SANGH ka kam samjh nahi aat”

Important factoid from Communal Violence Bill divides society by Prof Hilda Raja:
The drafters of the Bill presume that riots and violence are perpetrated by the “others” (read Hindus). This is certainly not always true. According to Ms Zenab Banu’s Politics of Communalism: a Politico-historical Analysis of Communal Riots in post-Independence India with Special Reference to the Gujarat and Rajasthan Riots (1989), there have been 74 communal riots between 1953 and 1977, of which 75 per cent were instigated by wayward members of the minority community. Even today, 98 per cent of cross border and/or Indian-born terrorism is planned, instigated and perpetrated by the minority community members. Yet, the Union Minister of Home Affairs, Mr P Chidambaram, repeatedly refers to ‘saffrom terror’.

Dear Shantanu,
@Ashish
I understand the anguish of Ashish when he states that there will be a host of bannings requested if this is request for ban on cow slaughter is accepted.
Iwould not like to question te thought; Yes banning cow slaughter may lead to other requests but there is meaning behind this:
1. If one goes thru the magazines like PETA/National Geographic we see the amount of waste of water and fodder goes into bringing pigs and chicken for slaughter. Meat is the highest consumer of water and resources.
2. The dung of the cow is very beneficial for agriculture and it is eco friendly.
3. The dung from the cow if used judiciously can generate sufficient gas known as GOBAR for satisfying the needs of a small village; this means less drag on natural resources.
4. The same GOBAR can generate electricity thru the means of equipment locally manufactured. I think in a place in Vidharba this has changed the lives of farmers who were committing suicide.There was an article on the use of GOBAR very recently in the TOI and Economic Times.
5. The urine of the cow if mixed in a certain proportion with other locally available materials like Gur and other ingredients makes for the best eco friendly pesticide.
The urine of the cow is also used medically in indegenous medicine and in many alternative medicines.
6. The cow /bull can be used for ploughing and its dung and urine during such activities are very good for the soil.
7. The Indian breed of cows live of hardy needle filled trees, shrubs,hay and other locally available household waste.
This is not the case as regards animals like Pigs/Chickens etc.
8. One must know that the “Dhobis” of yesteryears knew a technique of using the dung of Donkeys for making a particular product which used to whiten clothes even better than all our chemical derivates. Eco friendly to boot!
9. People very rarely slaughter Horses/Donkeys etc.
The utility of the cow far outweighs the need to slaughter it.
Please understand that there is no “HINDU RELIGION” involved in my statement.
Regards,
vck

Concluding paragraphs from Not 2002, 2001 shapes my view on Modi by HASHMI SHAMS TABREED:
…
Today I hear a lot about 2002. From Mullahs, Intellectuals, Media both Indian and Foreign, Liberals, Seculars and God knows who else. Almost everyone singularly blames RSS, VHP etc.I haven’t heard most of them talk about 2001 which was a far bigger tragedy where Hindus-Muslims in tens of thousands died. I did not see any of those champions of humanity serving there. Muslims, similar to those who today outrage and hate Modi for loss of Muslim lives in 2002, were out there looting other Muslims like vultures. Unfortunately none of the liberal secular narrative unfolded there. What i saw there was much maligned RSS and VHP folks serving humanity without any bias or hatred. They didn’t show any hesitation in helping, be the person a bearded Muslim or a burqa clad women. How many liberals or Muslims can maintain such neutrality when they see a man in Khakhi shorts or sporting a tilak. 2002 riots were unfortunate. One that was provoked because of a cold blooded planned burning of Hindus. In a state where riots started on incidents like bicycle collisions and cricket matches, this was a grave provocation. In a moment of madness, hundreds of innocents lost their lives. Anyone who sits on judgement about 2002 riots should ponder and think. Imagine how it would feel to be burnt alive, Imagine if it happened to your parents or your child, Imagine if they were blamed to have foolishly burnt themselves. In the land of mahatma not everyone is Gandhi. Our history is replete with Hindu Muslim riots across the length and breadth of this country and yet for some reason Media sees Ganga-Jamuni tehzeeb everywhere else except Gujarat. We will move on only when we let the pain of past go. It’s time to let 2002 go. Courts have already done so. In 2008 i visited Bhuj and Mandvi again, and i was surprised at the transformation that had taken place. It was here that Haji sahab’s in-law told me of a weird incident. While being rescued by Army, the local Maulvi was upset that the Army men, all Hindus, had to touch his wife in order to rescue her. Think what would these kind of people say about 2002 riots.

On Modi and RSS i’m not asking you to change your opinion. I’ve formed my opinion based on my experiences and i’d request you to do the same. Don’t let some random guy on TV shape your opinion. I’ve seen many preachers of high morality turn into spineless cowards when the time comes to practice what they preach. This country is too precious to be held hostage by a narrow skewed version of what happened in 2002. A lot of blood was spilled by freedom fighters in the hope of seeing the glorious India of yesteryear revived again. I have every hope that despite all odds India will prevail.