This is how China treats its religious minorities

I like the Singapore system. Singapore has a significant muslim population, but there has never been a single extremist incident from its population. The idea is simple, but very effective. Most of the extreme interpretations and hatred comes from Friday sermons. So in Singapore, every mosque has to submit its sermon a week in advance, and it has to be cleared by the govt. As long as the message is spiritual, they clear it. But not if there is any incitement to violence.

In India, I have personally heard some extremely hateful and provocative sermons being broadcast from mosques. That is the source, and we have to first stop that.

at what cost did rio tinto acquire the diamond and gold mining rights from the indian government for the 3900 sq.km . national wealth surrounding the regions of maharashtra ,madhya pradesh and chattisgadh and orissa ?who were the other bidders in the mining tenders ?what are the stakes of rio tinto in the orissa iron ore mining ?

global terrorism has no links to any faith or religion of this world . global terrorism is purely profits and politics . global terrorism is too expensive ,too costly to be indulged for religion . only big corporates and big fraudulent banks can afford the kind of money required to conduct global terrorism . the xingjiang problem is a global story of dirty politics and capitalist greed . the ‘uigher world congress ‘ recieved wide support in america during bill clinton as president after oil was discovered . what is happening today should have happened ten years ago if 9/11 had not happened . now barrack obama will carry the unfinished agenda forward . i agree with rohit that there are evil elements plotting against china in the UWC …….yet the chinese government are also to blame . they are trying to change the demography of the province by building settlements for new migrant hans chinese . most of the hans chinese get the jobs in the oilfields in the desert landlocked region ,while the uighers are neglected . i m simply not taking sides……..but such separatism has taken place before…..UAE separated from iran after abu dhabi struck oil……kuwait separated from iraq after oil was discovered . i m a big supporter of china and its people and i pray that the uigher world congress and the government sort things out before the americans and british start bleeding it forever . i condemn greedy uigher congress opportunists for sitting in american laps and barking at china .

Well said tarique! Although I do not agree completely to your postings. As to the demographical change China is carrying out in Xianjing, they would have thought deeply before taking this step. They are carrying out demographical change in Tibet too. I am saying this because, Chinese are careful/ rational planners, they do not give a damn to any religion when it comes to governance(lot is evident by the Neville Maxwell’s book on Indo China war), very mysterious, very effective.

Leaving China’s internal matters to China, I wanted to draw attention of readers to a small event which passed of insignificantly in eyes of media, students of politics in India. 2009 elections saw numerous Muslim Political Parties coming into fray. I bet that they do not want anything but only Muslim votes. Their names are also urdu so everyone can make out that this is exclusively pro Muslim Political Party although, it may have some Hindus in their rank and file.

What was the need for Muslim leaders to form exclusive Muslim Parties?

Why didn’t Muslims form a party with like minded Hindus and gave it a name with which everyone could identify?

If they believe they (Muslims) have real caliber to lead nation, why don’t they project their leader? As student of history, I can safely say that India never indulged in freedom struggle… Everyone including Congress (1885), Muslim League (1905), Hindu Mahasabha (1915), Communists (1920’s), RSS (1925) wanted only good governance and were okay with Britishers as long as they provided good governance… There were sporadic unrests (Like Bhagat Singh, Bose, Sawarkar, numerous protests by MK Gandhi [winner of Military Cross by britishers] which were promptly laid to rest when wrath of Britishers became a realty) against Britishers but never a declared, planned freedom struggle by anyone which ran long and effectively. Hindus will have no problem in accepting a Muslim as a leader if the leader can provide Ram Rajya or Good Governance.

Incognito,

I know that you are trying to prove your superiority (mental or other) by posting some Malcom X crap, but it would be good if you stick to simple language relevant to postings so that we can have a meaningful blogging.

Thanks for simplification Incognito…

I now understand what you want to say.

In a way you are leading me to infer that Koran and followers of Koran cannot be accepted universally that is why they have formed unique Muslim parties to cater to Muslim needs… RIGHT?

I will come down to Bible and Christians once I get the answer from you.

I got it… It has more to deal with exclusivity taught by these two religions and hence they will never be able to come up with a leader which can be accepted by person who does not belong to Christianity/ Islam.

Islam, I agree… This religion has brought misery in world ever since it was founded. Christians diluted the illogical, irrational, idiotic ramblings of Bible to progress. If someone gives a person (Non Muslim) a choice to work for same job in UAE or US, person will go to US. The idiotic ramblings of Bible are followed by missionaries who have a zero role in their world and a big time role among poor & illiterates.

Progressive thinking and good governance of Britishers allowed them to rule in India, maintain one of the best armies of world which had significant contribution in helping them to be on winning side in 1st and 2nd world war. That is why Britishers were accepted in India and Indians adapted their constitution, legal framework without problems post transfer of power. Muslims didn’t have any choice but to obey Britishers in British India. This is evident from fact that 1857, First war of independence which was fueled by religious torch bearers of Muslims and Hinduism on basis of Pig & Swine stories. Post quelling of First war of Independence, Britishers dealt away with East India Company, ended the support to missionaries by East India Company, reduced dependency on Muslims and Brahmins in Army & Police and ruled without any problems till 2nd world war which rendered them weak because they failed to quell rise of Hitler in time. Congress had the same attitude with Britishers as in first world war but the 2nd world war gave them the opportunity to grab power and they behaved irresponsibly, immaturely to grab power at any cost.

NOTE: Gurkhas still form an army unit of Britishers and their religious identity is protected. Britishers never changed identity of a person to Christian as a mandate to be employed by Empire.

That is why I raised the attention towards formation of Muslim Political Parties in 2009 elections. I think it will lead to FAITH BASED SEPARATISM AND TERRORISM like in 1940’s and at present in Kashmir. That’s why I said problem in China is not merely of oil and energy… Faith Based Terrorism and Separatism has a big role into it. I think to subdue faith based terrorism and separatism, China has taken steps to change the demographies of Xinjiang.

18- >>> The idiotic ramblings of Bible are followed by missionaries who have a zero role in their world and a big time role among poor & illiterates.

Do you mean to say that President Obama of US, Prime Minister Brown of UK and other heads of states of western countries and the unofficial Head of State of India do not follow Bible ?

>>> Progressive thinking and good governance of Britishers allowed them to rule in India,

And those indians who gave their life for freedom from the ‘progressive thinking’ and ‘good governing’ british were crazy.

Either you are shamming or you have been thoroughly indoctrinated. Either ways you do not deserve to be in independent india. Please don’t mind this harsh truth.

>>> … and Indians adapted their constitution, legal framework without problems post transfer of power.

You ignore the fact that it was those indians, the deracinated lot, who shared power with the british before independence, who continued with the system the british set, and adapted their constitution, legal framework and bureaucracy, one of whom proudly called himself the last Englishman to rule India. You are trying to overlook that that it was the repressive regime of the british that decimated nationalist indians and hoisted in their place the deracinated, west-indoctrinated lot and it was the propaganda unleashed by the cunning british regime that befooled ordinary indians into considering such deracinated, duplicitous lot as genuine ‘freedom fighters’.

>>> First war of independence ……. ……they failed to quell rise of Hitler in time.

Strangely in your narrative there is no mention of such people as Bal Gangadhar Tilak, Lala Lajpat Rai, Sri Aurobindo, Kuldiram Bose, Chapekar brothers, CR Pillai, Sukh Dev, Chandrashekhar Azad, Raj Guru, Madanlal Dhingra, Udham Singh etc., besides Bhagat Singh, Savarkar and Subhash Bose whom you dismissed as causing sporadic unrests in your comment 12.

Deliberate omission or thorough indoctrination by “eminent” (http://arunshourie.voiceofdharma.com/articles/19980724.htm, http://arunshourie.voiceofdharma.com/articles/19990115.htm, http://arunshourie.voiceofdharma.com/articles/party.htm) historians ?

>>> Britishers never changed identity of a person to Christian as a mandate to be employed by Empire.

They sure were not bothered to, so long as you slaved for them.

>>> That’s why I said problem in China is not merely of oil and energy… Faith Based Terrorism and Separatism has a big role into it.

Something in this reminds of the fox in the old tale that got two goats to fight so that it could drink the spilled blood.

The british employed that tactic very well, drinking blood of indians as they instigated indians to fight as untouchables with upper castes, as nationalists with moderates, as dravidians with north indians.

But you would rather overlook these inconvenient truths.

when we see separatism ,terrorism or a bomb blast , our first reaction should be ……who benifits monetarily from these attacks ? just ‘follow the money trail ‘. one reason why we have not understood the economics and multi billion dollar investments that goes in terrorism and separatism is that our policy has been ‘follow the religion trail’.

rohit , u should also study sri lanka where one of the biggest casualty of the three decade violence was ancient hindu temples and holy buddhist shrines . the sinhalese parliament has passed a law where LTTE cadres facing trial will be made to pay for blowing up buddhist temples in sri lanka .

rohit ,even the hizbollah and hamas has a large numbar of christian and jew gunmen in its ranks .

Shantanu-28, point taken. However, it seems a reply is called for to comment 21.

21- >>> I have interacted with people in general, in States and UK. They are not into religion. ”

Yeah. you know them well.

The question- “Do you mean to say that President Obama of US, Prime Minister Brown of UK and other heads of states of western countries and the unofficial Head of State of India do not follow Bible ?” rasied to your statement “The idiotic ramblings of Bible are followed by missionaries who have a zero role in their world “ is still unanswered.
Do Obama, Brown and other western ‘leaders’ as well as the ‘great indian leader from Italy’ consider Bible as ‘idiotic ramblings’ not to be followed ?
Is Bible irrelevant to them and those who vote them ?

>>> The people who gave away their lives against Britishers had their own point of views and I respect them.

Yeah. You respected them by omitting them.
The ’eminent’ historians do likewise.

>>> But these people were in MINORITY without any mass support from Indians or an effective organization which could produce the results they wanted.

You mean they did not indulge in subverting the masses like the ‘party’ bosses.
That is perhaps the only ‘effective organisation with mass support producing the results they wanted’ that you recognize.

>>> So, they didn’t have great leadership skills nor capacity to build lasting organizations which could produce freedom fighters on a lasting basis.

Merely because they did not take a leaf out of the western ideologies of hate such as christianity, islam and communism and brainwash ordinary folks into becoming fodder for ‘party’s advance, they are to be considered as lacking leadership skills and capacity to build organisations.

>>> No one not even a single Indian was able to reverse sell anything… Not even a single Indian has been able to reverse sell post 1947

Your intractable affinity towards ‘selling’ shows through. This urge to ‘sell’ causes you to sell yourself short- selling your values and your self, without realising it. And you expect others also to do likewise. When they don’t, you consider them as lacking in ‘capacity’ and ‘leadership skills’. For you leadership is to follow the lead of the western masters.

>>> Freedom was more of an opportunistic politics of cheap Indians like Gandhi, Nehru supported equally by Hindu Mahasabha, Muslim League, RSS, Communists. Hong Kong progressed much better under British Rule than India under different sets of thugs. Britishers have till the date constituencies which democratically want to live under British Rule. And yes they were not wrong when Churchill said that the country will be ruled by Men of Straw.

They were perhaps congratulating themselves on their achievement of two centuries. But, unless you are one of them, why are you so happy to say that they turned out to be right ?

Why do you allege that “Freedom was more of an opportunistic politics of cheap Indians ” ?

Why do you say that “Hong Kong progressed much better under British Rule than India under different sets of thugs.” overlooking that India’s GDP which was 24% of the world GDP when under the rule of Marathas and Rajputs in 1750, which the ‘kind’ and ‘good governing’ british brought down to 4.2% of world GDP in 1947 after two centuries of their loot and systematic destruction of country?

Why do you say that “Britishers have till the date constituencies which democratically want to live under British Rule. ” as if Indians from all over this country did not give their lives (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_freedom_fighter ) to liberate this country from the yoke of british rule ?

Why this tremendous affinity towards the british if you are an indian ?

Or are you one of those house indians who refuse to discard their loyalty to the massa ?

Here is the rest of what Malcolm X has to say-

” There were two kinds of slaves. There was the house Negro and the field Negro. The house Negroes – they lived in the house with master, they dressed pretty good, they ate good ’cause they ate his food — what he left. They lived in the attic or the basement, but still they lived near the master; and they loved their master more than the master loved himself. They would give their life to save the master’s house quicker than the master would. The house Negro, if the master said, “We got a good house here,” the house Negro would say, “Yeah, we got a good house here.” Whenever the master said “we,” he said “we.” That’s how you can tell a house Negro.
If the master’s house caught on fire, the house Negro would fight harder to put the blaze out than the master would. If the master got sick, the house Negro would say, “What’s the matter, boss, we sick?” We sick! He identified himself with his master more than his master identified with himself. And if you came to the house Negro and said, “Let’s run away, let’s escape, let’s separate,” the house Negro would look at you and say, “Man, you crazy. What you mean, separate? Where is there a better house than this? Where can I wear better clothes than this? Where can I eat better food than this?” That was that house Negro. In those days he was called a “house nigger.” And that’s what we call him today, because we’ve still got some house niggers running around here.

This modern house Negro loves his master. He wants to live near him. He’ll pay three times as much as the house is worth just to live near his master, and then brag about “I’m the only Negro out here.” “I’m the only one on my job.” “I’m the only one in this school.” You’re nothing but a house Negro. And if someone comes to you right now and says, “Let’s separate,” you say the same thing that the house Negro said on the plantation. “What you mean, separate? From America? This good white man? Where you going to get a better job than you get here?”

…Just as the slavemaster of that day used Tom, the house Negro, to keep the field Negroes in check, the same old slavemaster today has Negroes who are nothing but modern Uncle Toms, 20th century Uncle Toms, to keep you and me in check, keep us under control, keep us passive…To keep you from fighting back, he [the white man] gets these old religious Uncle Toms to teach you and me… ”

>>> We still prefer working for Britishers and Americans even after independence

The “we”, like Malcolm X mentioned in his above quote.

>>> India’s present Defense Forces, Police, Geography, Entire Judiciary has been given by Britishers.

And accepted as such by the deracinated lot. No wonder they are grossly incapable of benefiting the Nation and its people.
Yet you would follow your master.

>>> I would any day prefer Britishers.

Yes. You would.

The best to unite Indians and to get the nationalist feelings out is either a ‘cricket match’ or a ‘war’

LOOKING AT THE CURRENT DESTABILISED COMMUNIST CHINA WHAT ARE THE CHANCES THAT JUST TO UNITE OR TO DIVERT ATTENTION OF THE PEOPLE OF CHINA FROM THE ISSUES OF RECESSION,RELIGIOUS GROUPS FIGHTING ETC THAT CHINA MIGHT ATTACK INDIA? for its internal political gains

tarique,

Please don’t take it personal (I felt so) when I used the word Faith Based Separatism. By Faith Based Separation, I mean, case wherein few interested people are able to raise ruckus and make majority believe in their views by referring to some holy scriptures which can be misinterpreted. In India, Gurkhas indulged in separatism… That had nothing to do with faith… They are also Hindus like majority.

“The Uighurs are lazy,” said a man who runs a construction business in Kashgar and would give only his last name, Zhao, because of the political delicacy of the topic.

“It’s because of their religion,” he said. “They spend so much time praying. What are they praying for?”

Ha ha ha, that’s the funniest comment I ever heard about Islam. Hilarious

Sorry, no offence to any muslims.

33- >>>What I have said is very brief summary of India’s independence.

Yeah ?

>>> I say India’s freedom is an act of opportunism of opportunists like MK Gandhi, Nehru.

You knew them well, didn’t you ?

>>> I also said, Britishers provided better rule than anyone since 1947.

Sure they did, to themselves.

>>> You got problems with the statements, come up with some logical statements.

You logic, it was observed earlier, is to make fantastic statements and then ask others to give proof in support or otherwise.

>>>Prove my statements otherwise.

There!

>>> Don’t harp on Malcom X and his House/ Field Nigger theory.

Always reject inconvenient truths.

>>> What you said about Marathas and Rajputs is irrelevant today…

Why ?

>>> They declined from where ever they stood in the date you mentioned…

Declined automatically, is it ?

>>> Better would be study why empires like Chandragupta Grew and why they declined and how to derive best from the events in History.

Good idea. But you may have your own idea about that won’t you ?
Such as Chandragupta was tutored by an English teacher, a fellow named Sir Vishnu Sharma aka Lord Chanakya and when that Teacher left him for England his empire ‘declined’. The best that can be derived from that history being that everybody should get taught by English teachers who should not be let go.

>> 1) Israel was ESTABLISHED after India got independence. You can compare the two economies in present.

Were they also taught by English teachers ?

>> Better would be to start getting out of Utopia and Malcom X

Both go together, don’t they ?

>>> and throw some practical views on current state and betterment of future.

practical being to get the british back to rule india. (?)

Please convey Congratulations to your English Teacher, the one who has done such a thorough job, not in small measure helped by the high and mighties at JNU.

Long live the queen’s vassal!

@Rohit,
Not everyone agrees with the level of contributions made by Gandhi and Nehru or their personalities. However its quite ridiculous to say that the British ruled India better than Indians did, without providing any facts to back it up.
The rejection based system is not a stable political system because it feeds on the inefficiencies of the current system and just repeats them without providing a realistic alternative.
“..700 years of bleeding is an excuse.” Do you really believe that a nation which has lost wealth enough to fund the Industrial Revolution (as per most historians), lost a world class education system, with a significant majority of population in abject poverty and has made so much up in 60 years is a significant achievement? I guess there’s a lot to learn there. (Agree that NAM, SAARC, CRAP are all a waste of time though).

@Rohit,
“..Britishers ruled India better than Indians did” that was your statement. All I’m asking is some examples, references supporting your argument.
“..A nation which has good leadership in place to make best out of any given circumstances and not those nations which are ruled by thugs…”
A great example to counter that argument is India. Most political/economic observers are truly baffled at how a country with such diversity, huge flaws in its judicial/political systems, without significant natural resources to tap is able to function so well economically.
Can India be better? Absolutely. But we could be a hell of a lot worse, look at all of our neighboring countries.

@ Rohit:
“A nation which has good leadership in place to make best out of any given circumstances and not those nations which are ruled by thugs.”

Good point … you may to look at http://freedomteam.in if you wish to translate your angst into something positive for the nation.

@ Kaffir:
“Proof that god exists. :D”

LOL …. and, also proof that god does not have an ego issue, if you do not pray to her!

@ Rohit:
“They have no place for Sanatan Dharma which is the religion of India and our strength”

What has this to do with governance and good leaders in a *modern* society? Would you reject a good leader, just because he does not subscribe to *your* idea of what is the religon of India and what is its strength?

That would be strange.

@ Shantanu/Rohit –

Will take this forward on the other thread, but my short answer is – No

I do not understand the concept of “rajdharma” in the context of democratic Republics. Sorry.

From China region bans Muslims from fasting during Ramadan:
…
A statement from Zonglang township in Xinjiang’s Kashgar district said that “the county committee has issued comprehensive policies on maintaining social stability during the Ramadan period.

Similar orders on curbing Ramadan activities were posted on other local government websites, with the educational bureau of Wensu county urging schools to ensure that students do not enter mosques during Ramadan.

More from Xinjiang…
China: Xinjiang bans burqas, beards on city buses, PTI, Xinjiang, August 07, 2014:
…In a report by the Karamay Daily which was carried by national media outlets, officials listed the “five types of people” who would be banned from public transport.

They are people wearing headscarves, veils, burqas, clothes with the crescent moon and star symbol, and “youths with long beards”. “Passengers who do not co-operate, particularly the ‘five types of people’, will be reported to the police,” said the report, which added that all commuters would be subject to bag checks.

Excerpts from China offers reward for mixed marriages in restive Xinjiang, PTI | Beijing | September 3, 2014 (emphasis added):
…
Xinjiang’s Qiemo county government announced an annual cash reward of 10,000 yuan (USD 1,627) for five years for mixed marriage couples besides welfare benefits but skeptics argued that it may not work.
“We are no longer publicising the policy, but we will still go ahead with it,” an official from the county’s government office told state-run Global Times. The policy offers family members of mixed marriage couples privileged access to housing, education, employment and welfare benefits.
Ninety per cent of these couples’ medical expenses after insurance fees will be covered by the local government. Their children will also be exempted from school fees within the county until high school, while an annual 5,000 yuan scholarship will be given to those who reach university.
Their parents will also be eligible for housing and medical benefits if their marriage lasts longer than three years. The scheme was announced as Xinjiang witnessed a spate of attacks, which China blames on the East Turkestan Islamic Movement, an al-Qaeda backed outfit fighting for independence of the province.
…
The new move, mirroring similar cash incentives offered in Tibet, is believed by some to be a measure to ease social conflicts amid increasing incidence of terrorist attacks in the region.