“If Muslims revered cattle…” – excerpt
Alert reader Shefaly pointed me in the direction of this piece by Rod Liddle in the Sunday Times of UK “If Muslims revered cattle, Shambo would still be mooing” re. Shambo, a bull in Wales that had tested positive for tuberculosis. Shambo was executed by lethal injection on Thursday (26th) night despite protests from the Hindu community.
A brief excerpt from Rod’s article (emphasis mine):
“…I wonder…if the members of the (Welsh) assembly would have dared to make their decision if it were Muslims rather than Hindus who chose to revere cattle?
And what would have happened if they did? By now there would be priests set alight from Jakarta to Rabat, effigies burnt, fatwas issued. Cardiff airport would be missing an international departure gate.
The assembly would probably have come up with a compromise: okay, the bull lives but it has to wear a burqa when it goes out.
I suppose Britain’s Hindus can console themselves with the thought that having their sensibilities trampled on suggests they are a community with whom the rest of us feel at ease and can thus victimise with impunity.“
Sounds eerily familiar.
Also read: Of Sacred Bulls, Divinity & Development
Image courtesy: Wikipedia
Dear Shantanu,
I missed out on this post, but it is very apparent that the “Hindu” is targeted, because he welcomes! He does not reject for what you are or your belief, he welcomes as you are.
It is tragic that this wecome or the fact that this way of life defines a guest as divine; “Athithi Devo Bhava”!
Consider a guest as God. Why? because if you believe in “God” you would not like to illtreat him.
In the same manner, you would not like to illtreat a guest.
That is the culture of this way of life. That is the reason that “Hindus’ are treated callously.
Today many are understanding the greatness and beauty of the painting and appreciating it. They are not willing to compromise on certain issues and they are called Fundamentalist.
Today this greatness of “Welcome” is appreciated by an English reporter!! What a development.
I am sure as time passes this overwhelming beauty of this way of life will be felt by all and they will be able to come to terms and accept it as theirs.
Regards,
vck
Rod Liddle’s sentiments are touching but misplaced. TB sealed Sambo’s fate. Tens of thousands of cows lives were terminated in England and Wales for TB, so it was going to no different when the law was applied as rigorously to Sambo. For the UK, the protection of livestock is an economic not a religious issue. Some Hindus expressed displeasure that many thousands of cows were killed to deal with the mad cow disease outbreak for much the same reason as Sambo was killed. The success of the UK was incrementally built on prudent management of its agricultural industry. Hindu sentiment in making the cow sacred has imposed a cost a Hindu society which we can barely imagine. It is not too hard to see that in praising the cow we have neglected our fellow Hindus. The distress that has been displayed for the fate of the cows has not been matched by the same compassion for the distress of countless millions of Hindus who struggle everyday.
The Vedas records the cow sacrifice. That has usually meant unification of the tribe by their partaking of the meat. It was when this was abandoned that social divisions broke Hindu unity, the disunity that so characterizes India of today. Unity is not founded on only things about which we can agree about but on accepting wholeheartedly things about which there is disagreement for the good of the nation.
Dear Khandu Patel,
Could you please cite sources for your line “The Vedas records the cow sacrifice.”
and
also how “That has usually meant unification of the tribe by their partaking of the meat. It was when this was abandoned that social divisions broke Hindu unity, the disunity that so characterizes India of today” ?
@ Madhusudan
The authority for the cow sacrifice can be found in the Dharmashastra. See http://www.kamakoti.org/hindudharma/part5/chap24.htm. You will find in it a reference to meat consumed for sraddha.
Even as late as the Mahabharat, reference is made to the horse sacrifice. The whole elaborate ritual was intended to signal the sovereignty of the emperor. The sacrifice of the cow was replaced in Hindu history by the symbolic offering of a pumpkin. Hinduism has evolved in the direction of Judaism in eschewing animal sacrifice. Where Judaism differs with Hinduism is the Hindu prescription of duties against the Jewish concern for compassion. In this circumstance to accord divinity and affection to animals and withold from our fellow human beings is a step too far.
@Khandu
On 27/Aug you said
“The Vedas records the cow sacrifice. That has usually meant unification of the tribe by their partaking of the meat”
On 28/Aug you are saying “authority for the cow sacrifice can be found in the Dharmashastra”
Please show us what you have been asked to.
Please cite where sources for cow sacrifice in Vedas.
Thanks, Sandeep for that clarification on the question asked.
I hope Khandu understands this.
Mr Khandu,
I firstly am not aware wheather vedas talk about cow sacrifice or not. Wheather vedas talked of cow sacrifice or not is immaterial. Vedas were written thousands of years ago. The customs and sentiments of people change over a period of time. The point is wheather hindus have been revering cow since fairly significant period of time and if they continue to do so(which they have been). The topic is how hindus have reacted to the above situation and how other communities would react in similar situation. I fail to understand how your argument is relevant here and why you have started a different discussion.(which can be taken at appropriate forum).
Note: I am in no way accepting or refuting wheather vedas talk of cow sacrifice. I dont have data and facts about it and I would not comment on it.
Sandeep S
The reference I have provided to the Dharmasastra should answer the question. I will qualify however that Dharmasastra has derived its authority from the Vedas and may strictly speaking be the Vedas itself. Seeing that we are on this site discussing dharma, I do not see the relevance of any distinction with the Vedas.
I hope we’re looking for any references in the texts regarding cow sacrifice/slaughter merely to understand and to what extent it sheds light on today, and not to blindly follow one way or the other. As far as I understand, customs and traditions in our dharm are not static, and are not meant to be followed blindly. On the other hand, to look for science or logic or reason in each and every religious custom or tradition that’s passed on from one generation to the next, is nothing but folly and simply shows that one has made science the new religion, and that factors like joy, or a sense of continuity and rooted-ness, or a link to the past are considered irrelevant.
So if there’s an unequivocal statement in the text that says “cow slaughter is wrong”, would that make those who oppose the ban on cow slaughter, come around and agree?
Or, if there’s an unequivocal statement that says “cow slaughter is not wrong”, would that make those who support the ban on cow slaughter change their views?
@Kaffir
What I am trying to navigate here is the teaching of Hinduism which forbids cow slaughter and consumption of beef and the right of our host country in the UK which has a different interpretation towards the treatment of animals in its religious contexts. It does not stop there because, because Hinduism today in some sects forbids the eating of meat altogether. In others it permits the consumption of it or just fish Hindus whatever some of its religious teachings has to say about. This is reflection of economic reality.
Swami Vivekanand said thus: “You will be surprised to know that according to ancient Hindu rites and rituals, a man cannot be a good Hindu who does not eat beefâ€. (The Complete Works of Swami Vivekanand, vol.3, p. 536).
For Christians Jesus was the God who liberated his followers from blind practice no less than Swami Vivekanad when he said “You will be surprised to know that according to ancient Hindu rites and rituals, a man cannot be a good Hindu who does not eat beefâ€. (The Complete Works of Swami Vivekanand, vol.3, p. 536). The book ‘The History and Culture of the Indian People’, published by Bhartiya Vidya Bhawan, Bombay and edited by renowned historian R.C.Majumdar (Vol.2, page 578) says: “this is said in the Mahabharat that King Rantidev used to kill two thousand other animals in addition to two thousand cows daily in order to give their meat in charityâ€.
It has been said of the Israeli cabinet that there is not a single Jew on it who has not eaten pork. As everyone knows, pork is forbidden to the Jews as unclean and they made a rational decision that for them it is clean.
Hinduism eschews the eating of cows and bulls because of the services they have rendered. The logical corollary is that on the completion of that service, the country as in the UK which financially supports the dairy industry would expect all possible costs to be minimized: that cannot include putting them in retirement. The reality is that in India cows are sold off to Bangladesh to be eaten. Since in India, their value for meat to Hindu’s is nil, it hard to see that the return to India is maximized given all the expenses incurred. As India is one of the if not the leading dairy producer in the world, is it a waste we can really afford?
What is important to us as Hindus is not that we should eat beef. That is in accord with our religious sentiment but it is law. Neither should we get so excited when Hindus do consume meat and beef for that matter. They greatest sin for the Indian people is that they suffer unjustified deficiency in their diet by not eating meat. That is no way to establish a powerful and healthy country.
Khandu,
I mostly agree to what you wrote in comment #10. Vegetarinism is a respectable means, not a goal. When means become objective then the real objective gets obfuscated, rituals replace devotion, ignorance replace knowledge. Whatever little I have studied about Hinduism, I find that cow slaughter ban is pretty foggy. The existing social norms dictate an opposition, but there does not exist a scriptural basis for it. I even consulted Kane’s epic History of Dharmashastra (vol1 and vol2, part1 – only two parts I have), but could not find any satisfactory reference. If anyone can show me one in the original scriptures, I would be real glad. Trouble is that, in our case, existing social norms is hardly a reflection of what Dharma said. Even two hundred years back, it was forbidden to cross the sea. If I understand correctly, that norm has long gone into oblivion. How do we know anti-cow slaughter is not such a social norm.
Very recently, I happened to meet a pious Hindu family. My wife offered a calendar which contained a picture of Krishna advising Arjuna in the battle grounds of Kurukshetra. We were surprised when the calendar was politely returned. We were confused for few days until I learnt from somebody else that family considers such pictures of Arjuna un-acceptable because Kurukshetra was a battle between brothers and any battle was not in line with the non-violent principles of Hinduism. No battle for Hindus !!! Go, figure !!!
Rather than screaming about beef (and anti-cow slaughter) I would promote an education that would teach people about all the risks that is created by all kind of red meat including beef, pork, lamb and goat. This “let all Hindus eat Veggies” and “let us all preach non-violence” fanaticisms are going pretty over the limit.
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“Trouble is that, in our case, existing social norms is hardly a reflection of what Dharma said. Even two hundred years back, it was forbidden to cross the sea. If I understand correctly, that norm has long gone into oblivion. “
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Sid, but wasn’t it forbidden only for brahmins? AFAIK, merchants did cross the sea as they conducted their trade.
@Kaffir (#12),
but wasn’t it forbidden only for brahmins?Not too sure. For example, Rammohan Roy had to make a ritual of repentance because he went to London. Roy, as far as I know, was from Jamindar class, not a Brahmin.
AFAIK, merchants did cross the sea as they conducted their trade.I agree. There are tales of business across sea along both east/west coast. But it was pretty much finished by 1500-1600 CE. In the west coast, Muslim merchants took over slowly as the administration favored them and in the east coast business was finished by Portugese pirates, constant small and large scale warfare and the lack of interest of Afghan-Mughal-Turkish warlords in maintaining any viable administration outside their locality. So after that period, odd regulations such as this came up without any significant opposition.
dear shantanu,
my post on this topic with 3 links not yet on.any reasons.
@Ashwani: Can you please re-post? I am not sure what happened to it…I checked and the comment is neither in the moderation queue nor mistakenly classified as “spam”.
Sorry about this…Alternatively, pl email it to me and I will add the comment here. Thanks
sid,
pls. take a look at he following links:-
1. http://www.kamakoti.org/hindudharma/part5/chap23.htm
2. http://navayana.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/jhaexcerpt.pdf
and.
3. http://www.sriaurobindoashram.org/ashram/sriauro/downloadpdf.php?id=30
the first is kanchi shankaracharya’s views on animal sacrifice.the second is an excerpt from sh.b.r.ambedkar’s book wherin he quotes 3 verses from rigved rv10.86.14,rv10.91.14,rv10.72.6as proofs that vedic seers praticed cow sacrifice.sh. ambedkar as well as the whole cabal of “eminent historians” has taken to this view propunded by sh p.v.kane.
the views of . some knowledgable people as well as the views of arya samaj in this respect are to the contrary to the above mentioned view.
they say this is a clear case of vedic misinterpretation.this view gets a very strong boost from the writings of sh.aurbindo the 3rd link.
i hope you’ll find this info useful.
ashwani,
Thanks for the links. I have read Ambedkar’s views before. He was a knowledgeable man, sure. But not all of his works are authentic.
Kane’s case is a peculiar one. I once read an article by a leftist who seemed to conclude that Kane decisively said that eating cow was acceptable to Vedic age. Then I read an article by Sandhya Jain where she claimed that Kane said the opposite. Then I referred to Kane’s book and could not find a single reference to support Jain or the leftist writer.
I am going to check Arobondo’s quote but the question is still on.
sid,
aubindo’s ref probably may not be dealing with the question directly but it seems to my limited intellect to be a great treatise on intrepreting ved.he is specifically dealing on the question of literal reading vs. inspired reading for arriving at the true essence of ved.
imv sh.kane’s interpretation is a literal reading.
ashwani,
yes, agreed !!!
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Anyways, cows are unlucky as muslims do not revere them……moderate muslims fear to say anything because they fear being charged for apostasy.
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