‘Periyar was against Brahminism, not Brahmins’ (excerpts)
If you missed this article in yesterday’s rediff, I think it is worth a read: “‘Periyar was against Brahminism, not Brahmins’”
It makes the important and useful distinction and opens the way for reconciliation between the hatred that some followers of Periyar appear to have towards traditional Hindu culture…see for example: “Was this a cover-up or blind omission?”
I would like readers’ comments on this – particularly from those who are from the south of India or have some experience, understanding and familiarity with anti-Brahminism movement.
Image Courtesy: Bala Subs
Some excerpts from the Q&A:
“Gnana Rajasekharan is an IAS officer (and) …also the director of the feature film Periyar — aka E V Ramaswamy Naicker, the social reformer and rationalist from Tamil Nadu.
(Interview to Shobha Warrier in Chennai)
Q: Periyar has been described as an atheist, anti-Hindu, rationalist, and of course a social reformer too. After doing extensive research on him and making a film on him, what do you say is Periyar’s relevance today?
The main reason why I decided to make a film on Periyar is because I feel he was and is misunderstood. The descriptions you gave — atheist, anti-Hindu, etc show how misunderstood he is. Unfortunately only this image has stuck.
I am not saying he was not an atheist; he was. He was also against religious superstitions, caste, etc. (but)…he was a multi-faceted personality.
…His number one enemy was caste and today, we see only caste politics in Tamil Nadu.
Q: I have read that when he was in Kashi, he was not given food because he was not a Brahmin, and that was the reason why he turned against the caste system. Is it true?
Yes, this incident happened in his life but I will not say that was the only reason why he turned against the caste system.
Why is he anti-God? He said, ‘There is no God. He who created God is a fool and he who spreads his message is a scoundrel’. On the other hand his family, especially his mother, was very religious.
Periyar became anti-God because he felt God was against man. He felt the single factor that was against man in India was caste, and caste came as a part of the religious system. So, he denounced religion. He said I am against caste, and whoever proposes caste. God comes with religion, so, he was against God also.
Q: So, he was basically against Hinduism?
I would say he was against any religion that is anti-human.
Q: But was he not anti-Brahmin?
He was against Brahminism.
Q: Was he against Brahminism because of their supremacy in Hinduism?
The Brahmin community claimed to have a hold on all the sastras and texts. Because they created such a divide, he was against it. He was against dividing humanity in the name of caste. According to him, that is the biggest crime in the world. He was not against anything blindly; he had logical reasons to everything.
He also differentiated between Brahmin and Brahminism. He had an excellent relationship with Rajaji who was a Brahmin but he was vehemently against Brahminism.
According to him, reciting of the mantras is a mercantile activity. That was why he fought to make non-Brahmins and harijans poojaris (priests). He wanted priests from all communities and said it should not be the monopoly of one community alone. If he was anti-God and anti-temple, why should he fight for this? He wanted social justice. According to him, God should be equal to everyone.
Q: Reservation is based on caste, and he was against caste. Why did he then support caste-based reservations?
Yes, he fought for caste-based reservations. He felt unless social equality is achieved, you can’t have reservation based on economics status. His main aim was to bring about social justice where Brahmins and Dalits had equal status socially. I would say he changed the value system of Tamil Nadu. The questions he raised against caste are still relevant.
due to the BJP (brahmins) there is no trace of even the release of this wonderful movie. i wunder when wil tn come out from the clutches of the egoistic evil brahmin community.
Response to Sham:
Can you give me a single evidence that the Brahmin community is evil?
Sham: First of all, thanks for your comment.
However what you mention about TN “i wunder when wil tn come out from the clutches of the egoistic evil brahmin community” seems to be different from Gnana remarks about TN – “No other state can talk of such social justice”
Could you please help us understand the real situation? Also if you could give us some background of the anti-Brahminism movement in Tamil Nadu (or links to more information), I would be very grateful.
Ram: Thanks for your comment.
Mel Gibsons shockingly intense and painful drama Apocalypto begins with these words of W. Durant,
“ A great Civilisation is not conquered from without until it has completely destroyed itself from within”.
India ( Tamilnadu in particular) is fast heading down this self destruct mode and nothing is a stark reminder of this than the state sponsored apartheid in the name of reservations.
Nowhere in civilized world has any nation ignored and insulted, rebuffed and destroyed hopes and lives and futures of millions of meritorious students and job aspirants in the name of reservations.
The write up about periyar ( what a misnomer for a man of small cheap political ideology) E.V.R. and the interview with a hitherto unkown IAS Officer on rediff, whose only claim to fame is a shoddy film being produced with Satyaraj and Kushboo as the lead pair in a biopic called Periyar got me thinking. Some one had to give the viewpoint of Brahmins however unwanted and controversial it might sound. So here it goes….
About the film, the less spoken about the lead pair Kushboo and Satyaraj the better. They would put practitioners of the oldest profession in the world to shame with their personal life stories.
Now let’s look into the interview this IAS Officer gives.
Periyar was not against God but against misuse of Gods name. Periyar was not against Brahmins but against Brahminism.
After reading this I actually managed my best to stop puking and going into a spell of convulsions before I could actually sit down and pen this write up.
Im sure the N Rams and Gail Omvedt types and the “secular” know all types out there would cry for my blood after reading this write up but Im fed up of hearing fake stories being put up by the secular media to support the disgusting activities of the anti Brahmin lobby that someone had the spit the truth on these peoples faces.
Firstly a lie is a lie is a lie…. How many times you repeat it the lie doesn’t become true.
EVR was a scheming opportunist whose only single point agenda like Karunanidhis agenda is the decimation and destruction of the entire Brahmin race.
Lets look back at history not the history that NCERT Books written by communists in Delhi tell you but the disgusting facts of Tamil Nadu polity.
The anti Brahminism in Tamilnadu dates back to 1950s when India had just become an independent state and the real selfless freedom fighters made the biggest mistake of their lives. After driving out the Brits these selfless fighters stood back and said their job was done. Many Brahmins who were part of the freedom struggle who lost everything including family live and every penny they had rejoiced in the fact that India was a free state and they stood back to let vultures like Periyar, Annadurai, Karunanidhi and his goons to share the spoils amongst themselves. The fact that Brahmins were smarter and more cultured as a race didn’t help issues. This only fuelled the jealousies and insecurities of the likes of Periyar and Karunanidhis.
Right outside Chidambaram Natarajar temple stands this black hoarding – Kadavul illai illave illai. Kadavulai vendubavan muttal. Kadavulai vendubavan kaatu mirandi – loosely translated it means – There is no God. Only a fool prays to God. Only a barbaric idiot prays to God. What rights does an atheist have in critising the beliefs of a believer. He might have his opinion but when he says Im a fool and a barbaric idiot he steps out and interferes in my personal fundamental right.
Can these rationalists put the same board outside Jumma Masjid? So much so for rationalism and atheism. All this barking only against spineless Hindus. Arent muslims and Christians believers? Why not put up such boards outside churches and dargas? The next day these Periyars and Karunanidhis would be hunted on the streets like stray dogs. And the secular media will demand their head. So much so for their double standards. Their rationalism and atheism is pure anti Brahminism anti Hinduism in disguise.
Basic human jealousy is the cause of all evil. Periyar and Annadurai weren’t Rajajis friends. This is a blatant lie.The trusth was just the opposite. They were terribly insecure and jealous of the statesman that Rajaji was. Neither did they have the education or finesse of Rajaji and when Rajaji returned to Chennai after his stint in Delhi people just cudnt stand him.
The only way they could sideline Rajaji was by bringing in the caste factor. The violent Anti Brahmin protests in 70s spear headed by Karunanidhi is worse than the Gujarat riots of today. The media was terrorized in not reporting what had happened. Brahmins were looted, abused, their hair forcibly tonsured and women raped and killed. Not a single case of FIR was booked. Some Brahmin preists were beaten to death inside temple premises.
All this to ensure total obliteration of Brahmins in the social life of TN. Being the educated and so called elitist crowd Brahmins did the mistake of suffering in silence. And the reservation policy ensured the best brains in the state was refused entry in any educational institution of repute. These days Karunanidhis grandson and Arcot Veerasamis grandson study in Anna University. Their only merit being family members of the ruling goon clan.
About the unfounded oft repeated lie that Brahmins are perpetrators of Casteism in TN and that Brahmins have robbed other castes of their position in governmental jobs, just look around. For 50 years we have had anti Brahmin Governments ruling TN. How have they managed to make social life in TN better? Have caste conflicts lessened? They have infact worsened and we have caste outfits headed by Ramdoss and Thirumavalavan virtually behaving like mafia dons in caste ridden pockets of TN. What have you achieved by such state sponsored apartheid?
If the Government in 2007 is doing what Brahmins have been accused of doing several hundreds of years ago, then the government needs to be treated with the same contempt with which those casteist Brahmins of yesteryears need to be condemned. If the Government justifies this action, then what’s the difference between a racist criminal Brahmins and the Government?
Even after 60 years of Indian Independence we still hear spine chilling stories of Takurs and Jats raping and burning SCs and STs and Koundars and Vanniyars in Tamilnadu burning down SC and ST hamlest and vice versa. So have the governments succeeded in weeding out casteism after the systematic rape of Brahmins over the years? Now who will take revenge for the present day state and how many more years of reservation do we need?
The desperate barrage of lies shelled out by this IAS Officer is at times humorous. He calls Periyar a good friend of Rajaji. Periyar started anti Brahminism to achieve his personal goal of self flagellation. Anti Brahminism of Karunanidhi and Periyar is just a public front to settle scores with their enemies. Periyar silenced Rajaji with this and Karunanidhi has silenced Jayalalitha with this tool. Though Jayalalitha deserves to be hanged in public for being the most spiteful vengeful and disgusting CM we ever had is another issue. Lets not even compare Rajaji to Jaya and degrade the statesman. The only thing they both have in common is that they had very cunning political enemies who used the anti Brahmin card to ensure their hold on state power politics.
It is said Periyar started hating Brahminism and not Brahmins because a Brahmin refused to feed him in Varanasi. Firstly no one knows if this cheap story is true. Even if it were to be true, how is it justified that you start hating an entire race based on what a Brahmin did in Varanasi years ago? Will a state decide its education policy based on what a Brahmin did to one old rotting casteist politician? In what way are these scumbags better than Hitler?
And Karunanidhi ridicules Hindus and Brahmins at any given opportunity. As elected Head of Tamil Nadu isn’t he the Chief Minister of Brahmins of TN? Can he disown the entire Brahmin race? Arent we not entitled to a life in TN? You shamelessly solicit votes during elections but with such racist mentality can you openly declare that you are not our CM? Isn’t this untouchability practiced by the state? EVR Periyar started this culture of hate. Annadurai and Karunanidhi perfected it. Jayalalitha ( of unknown parentage who calls herself a Brahmin ) enjoys the spoils of this. This is TN politics for you.
However just look at TN today. Inspite of 60 years of hate, the best software brains and best neurosurgeons, the best businessmen, the best beauty queens all are Brahmins. The Brahmin race is very similar to the Jewish population. They are hated by everyone but the more the world tries to put them down the more they grow.
Inspite of Periyars and Karunanidhis we have grown and will continue to grow, the anti Brahminism in TN and India at large might have unsettled us from our place of birth but it has only made our lives better and more prosperous. In the end God ensures that life is a big equalizer. You might get a medical seat in All India Institute of Medical Sciences due to reservation but it doesn’t make you a great doctor. Our attitude is what determines our altitude and inspite of such casteist scoundrels we will continue to thrive.
I had few Brahmin friends from TN. They were good and God fearing people. Their attitudes were of rising and progressive. Yes, they can influence others too in their mannerism and dedication. But what I did not like about them was superiority complex and always comparing themselves with others. Too much competition in mind. Otherwise they are superb.
Sorry I don’t have any comments related to topic so I put whatever I knew about my Brahmin friends in my above comments. I learned many things from these friends. One of it is excellent focus.
From this post and readers comments I learned much more going on in TN. I think Brahmins can make a better govt. as they highly uphold hinduism if they remain without bias towards lower people. I am assuming that they are God- fearing people so will never go against humanity.
DrSurya: First of all, thanks for the comment and contributing to the debate.
You raise a number of points touching on reservations, “state-sponsored apartheid”, the politics of caste, and the “anti-Brahmin” movement in TN.
I am not sure I am qualified to comment on all (or indeed any) of these topics but at least for the sake of brevity, I will try and focus attention on one or two main points.
First, you mention that, “The fact that Brahmins were smarter and more cultured as a race didn’t help issues” – I am not sure that I agree with that. I do not belive that intelligence (or IQ/EQ) is hard-wired by ethnicity or race…The “more cultured” bit probably stems from the centuries of relatively priviliged position that most Brahmins enjoyed – and the emphasis on education that was a mark of being a Brahmin.
Now, the roots of “anti-Brahminism” – if that is the accurate phrase – go deep and there has to be a better, more effective, and more fundamental way to alter the situation (and perceptions) we find ourselves in (with).
Blog posts dont go far enough – at best they help to create and raise awareness and methods like reservations are only part of the answer because they do not visibly appear to change the status quo – especially in communities and areas where old, feudal attitudes run deep.
We need some fairly radical thinking and some fresh ideas to begin to resolve this issue…I have some thoughts and will share them on this blog sometime in the next few weeks.
In any case, I am still very interested to hear what lead to the situation in TN 50 or 60 years ago and the background of Periyar’s movement and the roots of his public support.
That aside, your comment needs a more thoughtful response and I will endeavour to give that (perhaps in a blog post) in the next few days. I also request other readers to share their thoughts on this issue.
As a general observation, a fragmented society leads to a weak polity…and there really is nothing more urgent and important than overcoming the caste divide…a divided home is an invitation for looting…
*
Indian: Thank you for your comment and sharing your experience. You mention that you “did not like (their) superiority complex and (teh habit of) always comparing themselves with others. Too much competition in mind” – that is an interesting observation which my experience supports to some degree.
I do believe though that they are one of the hardest-working and god-fearing community that I have come across.
And you do not have to apologise for commenting on the periphery of the issue – it still helps the discussion.
Shantanu,
Thanks for your comments. I do agree IQ doesnt come specific to castes but whether people agree or not it is a very well known faact that brahmins as a race is a very intelligent and smart race. Theres nothing racially arrogant in this statement.
Johns Hopkins University in a clinical study ( I will try to send you the link if i get it) had studied the IQ patterns of ethnic racial groups and in their own convoluted way arrived at a conclusion that Jews, Brahmins and Cantonese were the most intelligent ethnic groups of the world.
Now before this sparks off another debate let me say Johs Hopkins neednt be the final word and there are intelligent people in every race.
Let me justify why I made that comment. Even if you are an OBC candidate have you ever felt that if you were the smartest kid in class or in college you had the least number of friends?
This is because the best students in class and the best people in society always stir an unseen inferiority complex in others. The result is they are never popular ( but for some rare cases).
This is what I wanted to say. As a tamil brahmin I have had a first hand view of this issue. Some of the best looking and smartest in terms of IQ were and still are brahmins. A very simple survey can prove this.
Just step into several educational institutions and you would see amongst the top 10 students you would find several brahmins.
Now with such grip over education, the community definitely became less popular Hence the demand for anti brahminism became more shrill.
You had commented that – The “more cultured” bit probably stems from the centuries of relatively priviliged position that most Brahmins enjoyed – and the emphasis on education that was a mark of being a Brahmin. It is true that brahmins were more previliged and as a result of centuries of previlige have become more ccultured – it could be true. But the fact you agree with this only means I had laid my hand on the pulse of the issue.
I certainly do not support oneupmanship of brahmins in soicety. But the decimantion of one race to nullify this trend is not the answer. Whether people accept this or not, the truth is anti brahminism in tamilnadu was initially a war against an individual based on personal likes and dislikes. To camouflage this nefarious intention, it was later broadened against any brahmin because of the fact that were better off than other castes.
It is a sad fact. As a society unless and until there is collective growth, the growth wudnt be of any use.
This noble goal doesnt justify the ruthlessness of an elected government in sidelining and abusing a part of its own society.
Thanks, Shantanu for you kind words and thoughts.
Reading through the topic and comments, it came to my mind that; why in state like Gujarat brahmans and brahminism is not a question. Comparing to “Brahmins” there, community like “Patel”, “Bania”, “Rajput” and many other castes are doing far better than brahmins. Brahmins has no high privileges and status other than in temples, puja and ceremonies, particularly in state of Gujarat. There is no distinction of brahmins on level of education also. All are same. All and above, strong castes like Patels(farmers-Kadva, levua, matia) and Bania(vaishnav mainly)dominates other communities socially, economically and culturally. These communities are pure vegiterian and no interrelation marriages exists. Even cannot marry in the same town.
One can see this from the example of freedom fighter “M.K.Gandhi”(Vaishnav bania), and
“Sardar Vallabh Patel”. I can’t say these castes are dominating but there is no such distinction between all these castes. Caste distinction exists only when it is time to marry. Patels would not like to marry off their daughters to brahmins as brahmins are not as prosperous as patels not only because of the reason of caste. Still one can find many cases of intercaste marriages now, if both parties are strong in everyway.
So, I agree what shantanu said that “relatively privilege” postion they enjoyed in TN cannot be denied. Plus I also agree they are more towards higher qualification may have put them on lead in TN.
I don’t have anything against brahmins. In olden
times brahmins were meant to be respected and still i do. As when it is time to study brahminism I would like to think openely. I would also like to salute Brahmins for upholding Hinduism.
As per what Shantanu said, caste system should not exist, we become more vulnerable if we divide people on line of caste.
Sometime I think attitudes, behaviour, mannerism, and ethics may have played an important role to divide the society in castes other than four “Varnas” of Hinduism. If that is than people on lower strata should imbibe the good qualities from higher strata. This is again what I think, It may not be true. Sometime in the same community also people dislikes eachother because of ethics and manners they conduct themselves. So they distance themselves from eachother. May be the same kind of reasons may have existed at that time.
DrSurya,
The John Hopkins study that you mention is probably the Bell Curve study (I may be wrong)…
Indian: I think you will find one of my previous articles on the issue of Caste, Varna and Jatis interesting and relevant: http://www.ivarta.com/columns/OL_051125.htm
I am hoping that we could get a perspective from an OBC or a “Dalit” on this. With all due respect, I think it be very interesting (and educational) contribution to this debate. If any readers have friends or acquaintances with an interest in this issue, please forward this link and solicit comments: http://hindudharma.wordpress.com/2007/05/01/periyar-against-brahminism-not-brahmins/
Thanks
I am not against Brahmins , I am against Brahminism or any other “isms” in India. I support Hinduism and a true hinduism never discriminated on the basis of caste.
Some selfish people created varnashram and castes , they used this apartheid system as a tool to exploit remaining Indians. They made such a system in which Brahmins were at top of the hierarchy enjoying all fruits of prosperity while others working to serve them.
They made the ritual of ” daan” that means non brahmins were compelled to give gifts , food and money to brahmins in order to please Gods.
When a child is born , They should give ” daan” to Brahmin ,
When he is given a name , They should give ” daan ” to Brahmin,
When he is getting married , they should give ‘daan’ to Brahmin.When he is dead , They should give ” daan’ to brahmins.
Brahmin priests were responsible for this caste system of discrimination and still its the brahmins who discriminate the most towards SC ,ST , Dalits , Backwards and all other non brahmins in IIT , AIIMS or any other institutions.Even some of them differentiate with them in Temples.
Recently Tamlinadu government introduce a revolutionary resolution in which they said even Non Brahmins have got right to become Priests and worship God in Temples. Every caste welcomed it and were happy. The one and only Brahmins opposed it. They want to continue the monoploy on Hindu Society.
When Muslims got reservations in Andhra Pradesh , No Brahmin had guts to oppose or voice opposition and when UPA government announced reservation for OBC Hindus , They started all drama of so called ” Youth for Equality”.
When Hindus are murdered in Haryana and Kherlanji in Maharashtra , No Brahmin opposed the murders of Dalits. Not even RSS , VHP ,BJP ( Which is controlled by Brahmins) opposed it.
When Dalits want to worship in Temples , Brahmins oppose them and when same Dalit becomes Muslim and plant bombs to destroy temples , the same brahmins are first to run away and save their lives.
If Brahmins support destruction of discriminatory caste system and evil varnashram , Whole Hindu Community willl support them.
If there is no varnashram , There is no caste system , and there will be no reservations also.
Brahmins are against reservations because it gives a chance for upliftment of Dalits , SC and STs. But at the same time they are never against Varnshram or Evil Caste System.
True Brahmins never support division of Great Hindu Dharama on the basis of Caste and Varna.
I wish Brahmin Community will follow the Path of Chanakya , Veer Savarkar , Chandrasekar Azad , Mangal Pandey , Chapekar Brothers , Vasudev Phadke , Lokmanya Tilak and Offcourse the Greatest Maharishi Dayanand Saraswati .
If we one billion Hindus unite , India will be the most vibrant nation on this Earth.
Jai Bharat
Vande Matram
Dear Mahadev,
Thank you very much for your comment and contributing to this discussion.
I am in complete agreement with you that there must be an end to discrimination. In fact, just a few days ago, I wrote this post re. the entry of Dalits in temples which I think will resonate with your views: https://satyameva-jayate.org/2007/04/19/shameful-and-inexcusable/
As a Brahmin, let me make my own position clear: I am totally and completely against all forms of discrimination against Dalits, SC, ST, OBCs or anyone else for that matter…Temples are not only for Brahmins – they are for every Hindu and must be open and accessible to everyone.
Secondly, I strongly support the induction of Dalits and SCs/STs as priests in temples – there should not be any argument about this.
Re. the question of reservations, please see this post:
Re. condemnation of atrocities, murder and crimes against Dalits, again, let me clearly and unequivally voice my condemnation of such incidents. If the RSS, VHP and others did not condemn these incidents, shame on them – and they are not the true representatives of Hindus.
I would like to say that I am not the only Brahmin/upper caste person who feels this way. Most of my friends and readers of this blog will agree with me on this.
As re. the question of caste, varna and jatis, there but important differences in these terms. E.g. please have alook at this post: http://www.ivarta.com/columns/OL_051125.htm
I am in complete agreement with you when you say that we should follow the path of Chanakya , Veer Savarkar , Chandrasekar Azad , Mangal Pandey , Chapekar Brothers , Vasudev Phadke , Lokmanya Tilak and ofcourse the Greatest Maharishi Dayanand Saraswati…If we one billion Hindus unite , India will be the most vibrant nation on this Earth.”
Well said.
Jai Hind, Jai Bharat
its very funny how every flaw in hinduism is attributed to brahmins and every thing good they have done is happily ignored.
Mahadev must be basing his opinion on personal experiences ( like all of us do) I only hope and wish he gets to meet brahmins who are not as draconian as he describes them to be.
http://www.ucpress.edu/books/pages/10868.html
Bhola,
Thank you for the link. I will try and get my hands on a copy.
Wednesday, May 23, 2007 (Chennai)
One of the biggest political churning in temples was seen in Tamil Nadu, where the Dravidian Movement challenged all Brahminical rules and bans.
This socio-political movement of the early 20th century not only opened the temple doors for people of all castes, but has also made sure that even lower castes can now become priests.
Barely an hour from the famous temples of Guruvayoor lies the old princely state of Travancore.
Here the rigidity of Guruvayoor rankles hard because Travancore was the first state in pre-Independent India to break away from temple orthodoxy.
In 1936, the Maharaja of Travancore, Maharaja Balarama Varma, abolished the ban on untouchables from entering Hindu temples. In his famous Temple Entry Proclamation he said: ”none of our Hindu subjects should, by reason of birth or caste of community, be denied the consolations and the solace of the Hindu faith.”
This was a landmark in India’s social reforms that opened the doors of many temples across India.
Dravidian movement
This change was taken further in Tamil Nadu by the success of the Dravidian movement with its origins in the anti-Brahmin movement, launched in the first part of the 20th century. It saw many from lower caste backgrounds become temple priests.
Last year when the DMK government came to power it passed a law that anybody belonging to any caste can perform puja in Tamil Nadu’s temples.
”People trained in Agama rules and who know Vedas, who knows Sanskrit can become priests. There is nothing wrong in it,” said T K S Elangovan, Organising Secretary, DMK.
”We have got references and evidences from history that we are all children of God and anybody can become a priest and worship God if he knows the method. So there’s nothing wrong in the move,” said Amarnath, a Historian.
The reforms outraged the orthodoxy and provoked intense debate amongst others.
”It is generally thought that only Brahmins are allowed inside the temple. I am also a Brahmin. I have also studied so many texts and all, Vedas, Agamas. But because I know Agamas I cannot go inside the sanctum sanctorum. Most of the people now in the government are atheists. So they don’t have any faith in the religious traditions and so they are doing all these things,” said M A Venkatakrishnan, Professor of Vaishnavism.
Equality in religion
Political pundits point out that the DMK move is well timed because it comes right in the middle of the reservation debate. But priesthood is not a very lucrative career. Hence this move is less about professional opportunities and more about social posturing.
”I cannot understand why the government is worried about this issue when there are issues like Dalits not being allowed to become Panchayat chairman, reserved categories are not fulfilled and when there is so much oppression of Dalits by non-Brahmin upper classes in villages,” said V R Anil Kumar, a Sanskrit Researcher.
But irrespective of the debates or the motives the DMK’s attempts to temple reform cannot be reduced to mere politics because it is an attempt at equality in religion.
Real Brahmin will never discriminate on the basis of caste.We must allow our Dalit Hindu Brothers to enter temples and become Priests.
Those selfish people who stop our Dalit Hindus from becoming Priests in Hindu Temples are Traitors.
We must make sure that those casteist people are booked under the law of the land. This is discrimination.
Out of Four Shankaracharaya , one Shankaracharya should be from Dalit Hindu Community.
Dalits are the real Hindus , They have faced inhuman cruelity and harsh treatment from selfish hindu top class and inspite of that they are still following great Hindu Dharma . They are the great Hindus.
Now Brahmins must come forward and make sure that Dalit and Backward Hindus are given Leadership of Hindu Dharma , Hindu Community and Hindu Organisations and we will see Hindu Revolution in India.
All these conversion activites and Islamic Terrorism will stop .
So called high castes are only 10 % of Indian Population and 70% are Dalits , SC , ST and Backwards. They are staunch Hindus , they have guts to fight back and defend Hindu Religion and Nation.
Last time BJP supported a Muslim and made him president.
This time BJP , RSS , VHP must show credibility and support candidate from Dalit , SC or ST Community for the post of President. This move will remove all misconceptions and doubts in the minds of our majority Hindus and also forge Unity between all sections.
together we can , we must and we will Unite to rebuild our Great Indian Nation as “Jagadguru”.
Rakesh and Vishnupal: Thank you both for your thoughtful and excellent comments.
Rakesh, you say in your conclusion:
“Real Brahmin will never discriminate on the basis of caste.We must allow our Dalit Hindu Brothers to enter temples and become Priests” – This is a noble idea and I completely agree with it.
Vishnupal: The feeling that you expressed in your concluding sentence, “together we can , we must and we will Unite to rebuild our Great Indian Nation as Jagadguru” is what we need today.
Without Hindu unity, there is neither Hindu culture nor Hindu pride – this is really the need of the hour..
In case you missed it, both of you will find post of interest:
https://satyameva-jayate.org/2007/04/19/shameful-and-inexcusable/
Please start the movement to destroy the Varnashram , jati and caste system otherwise these hindus will be converted to Buddhism and after that to Christanity.
Only Brahmins can take initiatives to bring equality.—————————————————–
MUMBAI (Reuters) – About 50,000 Indian low-caste Hindus and nomadic tribespeople converted to Buddhism before a vast crowd on Sunday in the hope of escaping the rigidity of the ancient Hindu caste system and finding a life of dignity.
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Monks in orange and saffron robes administered religious vows to the converts as about half a million spectators, mostly Buddhists, cheered the ceremony at a horseracing track in downtown Mumbai.
Some of the converts were low-caste Hindus once considered as “untouchables” by the higher castes, but most were members of India’s numerous nomadic tribes.
Many of the tribespeople had their faces painted and ritually flagellated themselves before being asked by the monks to give up their practices and follow the non-violent path of Buddhism.
“Whatever may have been your religion until now, from today you will take refuge in the teachings of the Lord Buddha,” one told them.
At a signal from the monk conducting the proceedings, the converts, some of them visibly emaciated or carrying babies in their arms, stood up, took off their shoes and with folded hands repeated Buddhist chants.
Hindu scriptures separate people into Brahmin priests, warriors, farmers, labourers, and those beyond definition — called “Dalits”.
These low-caste Hindus, making up about a sixth of India’s 1.1 billion people, were once considered “untouchable”, performing the most menial and degrading jobs.
CULTURAL CHANGE
While the Indian constitution forbids caste discrimination, and spectacular economic success and exposure to Western culture have remoulded many social paradigms, the caste system has persisted, above all in villages.
Dalits are still often beaten or killed if they use a well or worship at a temple reserved for upper castes.
“I’m here because people from our village have decided to become Buddhist,” said Santosh Mane, a landless labourer from a village about two hours’ drive from Mumbai.
For decades, conversion has been a sensitive issue in India. Right-wing Hindus have accused missionaries, especially Christian preachers, of converting poor Hindus with inducements such as free schooling and health care.
But Christians, who have long demanded greater rights for Dalits, say those who convert often want to escape the oppressive caste system.
Hindus account for 80 percent of India’s population. Muslims account for 13 percent, Christians less than 3 percent and minorities such as Sikhs, Buddhists, Jains and Parsis the rest.
The movement already started. http://www.shastras.org/ . Just support them.
Selvan: Thanks for the link. I will have a look.
Selvan,
Looks like a good link.
Wish all this good work of Shantanu, Radha Rajan and several other people committed to reviving and unifying Hindus pays off and we rise together as one strong powerful entity and destroy all the hurdles in our path of success.
Good luck in your work.
See how Muslims are using caste difference in Hindu Society to further weaken India ………
http://www.samachar.com/showurl.php?rurl=http://www.thehindu.com/2007/05/31/stories/2007053107421200.htm&news=We%20are%20with%20them,%20say%20J&pubDate=Thu%2C+31+May+2007&keyword=hindu_home
We are with them, say J&K Gujjars
Staff Reporter
JAMMU: The Gujjars in Jammu and Kashmir have extended their support to their Rajasthan counterparts, who are waging a struggle for their inclusion in the Scheduled Tribes list.
“We fail to understand why our co-ethnic community in Rajasthan is not being given Scheduled Tribe status. In their hour of need, we are fully behind them in their struggle and would even join them if their demand is not accepted. On every parameter, the Gujjars deserve Scheduled Tribe status,” J&K Gujjar United Front Leader Chowdhary Shah Mohammad said.
The Gujjars in Jammu and Kashmir are Muslims. They are ethnically and culturally closer to the Hindu Gujjars as they belong to the same racial stock. They were given tribal status during the tenure of the Chandra Shekhar Government in 1991 after a long-drawn struggle by civil activists and community leaders. The people who supported the demand included intellectuals and other Gujjar leaders who convinced the political leadership the need to bring the community under the umbrella of affirmative action. The community has been the worst sufferers of militancy in the last 17 years due to its consistent struggle against militants.
The Gujjars have now launched a political struggle for reservation of seats in the Assembly. As per the Indian Constitution, tribals are entitled to reservation proportionate to their population of a State. If the provision is applied to the State, which has its own Constitution, a minimum of 11 Assembly segments will have to be reserved for the STs in the present 87-member Assembly.
_________________________________________________
Just imagine there was no caste system in India,
There would have been no conversions , no defeats , no traitors in India.
No caste system , No Reservation , No division , No discrimination.
Brahmin Youth Organisation is opposing quotas for SC , ST and OBCs, But they have no courage to utter a single word against the 5% reservation to Muslims and Christians in Kerala , Andhra Pradesh , Karnataka and Now few days back CM Karunanidhi of Tamilnadu announced 5 % reservations to Muslims and Christians in Tamilnadu as well.
I wonder why Youth for Equality is not opposing it ??
I challenge all Brahmins , RSS , VHP , Shiv Sena and Hindu Priests to speak and agitate against reservation to Muslims in Southern States. and after some months muslims are lobbying with every political partyto get the same 5 % – 15 % RESERVATION in every state and that will be nightmare.
But we are sure no Brahmin Organisation, Priest and Youth for Equality will protest against this anti national move by politicians to gain votes.
Real Brahmins that is Brahmins by Karma will definitely oppose it and show that they have blood of their fathers and milk of their mothers.
Shri Ramchandra ki Jai
THIS KIND OF PETTY DIVISION AMONG HINDUS MOSTLY STARTING FROM TN ONLY.PERIYAR BEING A KANNADIGA, HE IS NOT TAMILIAN, HE THOUGHT THAT DIVIDING BRAHAMINS AND NON BRAHAMINS IN TN WILL BECOME EASY TO AVERT TAMIL KANNADIGA DIVISION, FOR THIS DIVISION NAIDUS OF TELUGU PEOPLE ARE ALSO HELPING POLITICAL PARTY TO DIVIDE BRAHAMINS AND NON BRAHAMINS.EXAMPLE IS AT THAT TIME NAIDUS FROM COIMBATORE.BASICALLYCOLOR ISSUE BRINGS ONLY THE DIFFERENCE ESPECIALLY IN FEMALE SEX.BRAHAMINS LADIES ARE THAT TIME VERY FAIR AND OTHERS ARE BLACK .
SINCE TAMILS ARE ALWAYS WEAK IN SEX , IF GOOD LOOKING LADY CAN EASILY INFLUENE A DRAVIDAN TAMIL, THEY ARE VERY WEAK IN FEMALE SEX, MAY BE EATING STRUCTURE.MORE NON VEG FOODS WILL MOTIVATE SEX.
THEY STARTED AGITATION STARTED FROM COLOR COMPLEXION ONLY, IN TN THE SAME TIME IS NORTH INDIAN PEOPLE ARE THEY DO NOT LIKE SINCE NORTH INDIAN ARE WHITE OR FAIR COMPLEXION, THAT IS WHY ANTIHINDI AGITATION STARTED IN TN BY DRAVIDAN PARTIES.
KSKulkarni: I am not sure what you are trying to say…you have either intentionally or inadvertantly mixed up a number of issues…but I COMPLETELEY disagree with your analysis that the cause of this trouble is “Brahmin ladies” who are fair…
You cannot be serious.
Please avoid falling into these kind of traps…There are plenty of North Indians who are dark-skinned, plenty of South Indians (including Tamilians) who are fair-skinned and plenty of Brahmin ladies who are not fair.
This obsession with complexion is the bane of our society and I dont need to tell you how deeply it can hurt the psyche of someone (especially girls and women) who are not “fair-skinned”…
As for linking, non-veg food with sex, what are you talking about?
I am resisting the urge to “moderate” your comment but I must caution you that if you repeat these kind of statements, I will have to edit/censor them.
Till I was 31 years old I was in Bombay(now Mumbai). I was and continue to be part of a middle class brahmin family. I am a moderate. I like lot of things in BRAHMISM
fsdfsdf: Not sure if your coment was serious but I have deleted it as I found it untenable (if it was a serious one) and in bad taste (if it was meant as a joke).
Although I do not usually moderate comments on the blog, I will delete offenisve, abusive and non-serious comments – particularly those in bad taste.
I hope you continue to remain a loyal reader and I look forward to your thoughts on this and other matters – please take the time to explain your arguments and assertions though – this shows respect to our other readers as well.
Thanks.
———————–News from dailyindia.com———————
A low-caste Hindu turns priest
From our ANI Correspondent
Paliganj (Bihar), June 30: A low-caste Hindu has been appointed priest of the Ram-Janki Devi temple at Paliganj, 60 kilometers from Patna, where casteism is at rife.
Janardan Manjhi, the newly appointed priest of the temple was earlier serving in a Dalit temple.
Traditionally, priesthood is restricted only to Brahmins. But the temple authorities, by law, has broken the tradition and allowed Manjhi, a Mushar tribal to take to priesthood.
It took temple administrator Kishore Kunal six months to select Manjhi, who is not well versed in Sanskrit.
During this period, temple authorities checked his credentials and his devotion to god.
“I am feeling very nice and excited. I had never thought of this. I used to dream of this day when I would distribute the prasad here. Now my dream has come true,” said Manjhi.
Residents say the move would set an example for those indulging in casteism.
“Casteism was rife here and because of that conversions had begun. Earlier people never let the untouchables in the temple. So it is a good move which will led to easing of such thinking,” said Pankaj Kumar, a resident.
At present, non-Brahmin priests perform rituals in a few temples of certain sects, mostly in rural areas.
The Supreme Court had ruled in 2002 members of the so-called “dalits” could also be appointed as priests in temples as long as they were qualified to conduct the rituals.
Copyright Dailyindia.com/ANI
Drsurya, you sound like someone who studied in JMC mysore
I am surprised that you have invested such a lot of time on a person like Periyar.
Periyar can probably be noted as the “one person who is reponsible for all the political unrest in southern India in the post-independence era”. No matter how decently you try to tackle the issue by asking questions about brahminism (a term that means nothing, except that it was coined by British Indologists who understood nothing about India), the basic issue is quite clear. Periyar used a strategy to win elections and appear as a hero to the gullible majority of the population.
If he was simply an anti-“brahminic” person, he would not have carried out processions where idols of Gods and Godesses were adorned in footwear and smeared with excreta.
Please don’t give your readers all this proper-language bullshit about bastards like Periyar.
Ritwik: Thanks for your comment.
I decided to invest some time in this as I am really keen to understand the origins of his hatred and antipathy towards Brahmins and Hindu symbols, rituals etc.
We may pretend that it does not matter and it is not worth a discussion – but I would respectfully disagree.
Unless we try and understand the causes of dis-unity or friction amongst Hindus, I see little hope of creating a strong and proud Hindu identity. Of course, not everyone agrees with this view…and I am not claiming that this is the only way…
You may also find this recent post interesting (- you may have read it already, in which case apologies): “Is this too much to ask?”
@ Selvan (Comment #20): To a large extent, your link to the shastras site was the trigger for the post I mention above. Thanks.
If a man has an inferiority complex, we leave it to him to sort out his problem.
But to sow single minded hatred against a community, which has also shown great nobility as evidenced in literature, music and the arts….you can call such perversity anything…but it is not leadership.
But obviously hate is more powerful than love in the short run.
Men of immense standing, like Ramalinga Vallalar, too poohpoohed caste….but their’s was a message of love.
Unfortunately there is no end to hate…when there is no beginning for love….Love makes man a god…hatred makes him a beast…
We should not justify any philosophy of hatred…on any score.
I beg to differ on point that Brahmins do not allow Dalits or members of the other caste to become priests.
Temple and religion is science and have some rules, because idol worship is connection between the mind (Jeevatma) and the paratma.
Not all temples in tamil nadu have brahmins as priests. In an Amman temple, brahmin can never become a priest, however if u perhaps visit the revered Amman temple in T.Nagar Chennai, most of the followers are brahmins.
Brahmins visit this temple in large number, I think brahmins are pretty rational about this.
Temples in Tamil Nadu is big business, all the big temples in Tamil Nadu have cores of wealth with these moron aka karunanidhi want to amass for themselves, thats why they want to take brahmin priest out the temples, already a lot land of the temples are being sold!
I think there is nothing about equality in the situation! However what I wish to add is the big priest in temples are also equally corrupt!
Dear Folks
What are you trying to achieve by spending your time in preaching across the web.If you are a Brahmin try and search for karma by helping the downtrodden.same applies for a non-brahmin too.
Use your life to save lives
@ Lord RAM: Thank you for your comment. We all try to do what we can…
Is there anything specific that you are referring to?
P.S. I don’t know why you got the idea that this site is to do with “preaching across the web” (unless discussing Hinduism, culture and history equates to preaching)
Shantanu: Here is a time-tested beautiful quotation of Swami Vivekananda:
“Let people say whatever they like, stick to your own convictions, and rest assured, the world will be at your feet. They say, ‘have faith in this fellow, or that fellow’, but I say, ‘Have faith in yourself – all power is in you – be conscious and bring it out.” [CW VI 274]
Brahmins are not a race – otherwise an excellent critique.
Brahmins are just like other human beings. That some people are born in the so-called ‘brahmin’ caste is an accident about which no one can do anything. Of all people in India, Brahmins are the most democratic-minded. They are always ready for a fair debate and they respect the rights of others to secure education, jobs and the good things in life.
Brahmins are not jealous. But like other human beings they too have emotions, feelings, needs and desires and are willing to engage in fair competition. Brahmins normally do not abuse other people on caste basis and also do not indulge in atrocities. Where however some Brahmins indulge in caste practices to demean others, other Brahmins on becoming aware condemn such behaviour.
Brahmins generally promote social goodwill and amity in the society because they know that turbulence and anarchy in society will bring all-round ruin.
Brahmins do not categorise people as backward etc. To be called backward is nothing to be proud off.
Brahmins are fair-minded people who recognise that where people suffer from genuine disadvantage they must concede their own rights so that the disadvantaged person gets an opportunity. But Brahmins do not appreciate people vying for the bogus tag of ‘backwardness’ so that undue benefits can be enjoyed without engaging in competition.
Brahmins also do not spread lies, falsehood and rumour. Brahmins also do not promote caste hated.
Various individuals, groups and organisations in India are engaged in the full-time occupation of inciting hatred based on caste, religion, language etc. Of course it is all done in the name of social welfare. Most of these groups have sworn to uphold the constitution and yet are engaging in anti-constitutional activities. Several people in India are busy inventing dubious nomenclatures to carry out illegal grouping of people and inter-group disaffection is being promoted. The people of this country are urged to be wary of these do-gooders, most of whom have single-point agendas.
Various sections of the national media are also engaged in promoting inter-group disaffection. They are primarily doing this by highlighting the ‘castes’ of the unfortunate victims of crime which are committed for various reasons. Most of the crimes have nothing to do with caste, yet the caste is highlighted when victims belong to particular castes. When the victims belong to ‘out of favour’ castes, the same is not reported.
Let us not lionize some one like EVR who is a beneficiary of the time and place he lived in. EVR borrowed ideas that were prevailing at that time all over the world and applied it to the local Tamils. He was lucky to be at a time when enlightenment was taking deep roots all over the world that man should not enslave man, nor discriminate based on colour, creed or religion. Slavery was being abolished all over. Fruitlessness of war was being realized after two bloody world wars. So this man EVR a school drop out and a local wealthy bully must have taken to oppose established customs and rebel against all that is revered whether people, God et al. Normally this comes easy to all bullies. Must have resented some happenings around him which prevented him from having his ways. The Justice party by that time had already laid the foundations for resentment against people who were revered in the Society even though they were are not as wealthy as their party members were. It is well known the Brahmins are not a wealthy community even now.. Additionally British were also preferring Brahmins for the Govt. services for their knowledge of English, their dedication and efficiency in work. Justice party invented a devious method to over come this, spread fissiparous tendencies in Tamilnadu isolating the Brahmins as the sole culprit and beneficiaries due to casteism. Though they themselves misused cast when it benefited them in large measure as they required large labour force to look after their wealth and huge estates, property amassed in India and abroad. So our EVR also caught on to this bandwagon to gain cheap popularity with the support of some indolent people similarly disposed to his idea and spread hatred in his own crude ways.
If you come to think of it when casteism was prevalent in India, Slavery in its virulent form was practiced all over the world. Men like Hitler were exterminating a community based on their religion. When idea of Slavery was mellowing down in other parts of the world the idea caught on in India too. Brahmins themselves were advocating against cast repressions. Ramanujar who spread Vaishnavisim is a shining example. So at no point of time support or opposition to casteism in Indfia can be taken in Isolation. It is mostly a reflection of what was happening and accepted by others in the world over. Though so many in so many ways opposed cateism during that period including the right thinking Brahmins, only some were lucky to have their name projected as the doyens of such a movement and EVR was lucky to be projected thus, because his supporters were in a free country, went on to win elections in a democracy, form government and push thro his image.
Who said Brahmins created Caste? How do you prove Manu who enunciated caste rules is a Brahmin?.or even Vedas were written by them. Our Gods Rama, Krshna, Muruga are non Brahmins. Rishis Valmiki, Vyasa are non Brahmins, The graet kings of Tamilnadu were all non-brahmins without whose accepatance nothing could have been enunciated. Then why say Brahmins only created castes. By this I don’t try to say caste system is bad and who enunciated is a criminal. It had its advantage for governance and order in Society and had relevance in the time it was followed and suited the beliefs that existed in that period. So it was accepted by the Society as a whole as a useful system that served the needs of the time in which it existed.
Who would have divided people as Brahmins, Vysyas, Khatriyas & Sudras? It must have been that they belonged to the caste by the work they took upon them selves and were adept at doing. It was not as if some one called and told people to join this or that caste. You preferred to do particular jobs than some others, then you belonged and were identified by that caste name to which the work belonged. It was a matter of convenience there was no ignominy meant to be attached to any one.caste. Whatever we perceive as ills today must have been later developments. Our Vedas and Upanishads preach the highest ideal that the Souls of all Living is God himself and hence are equal. So it is not Brahmins who enunciated the caste system as we see it today but it was all the vested interests in the system who misused and nurtured it and benefited by it and now the very same people trying to find Brahmins as their scape goats. They have not shed their nefarious caste game plan even now. They are spreading wool over the eyes of gullible Tamil people. They use the same caste they proclaim they are opposed to, to capture votes and power, get education, college, IIT, IIM admissions, jobs and then when convenient blame it on Brahmins. They are enacting very same drama they had enacted for many thousands of years before to feed on the caste system but still blame it on Brahmins. What do we call this INGENUITY OF SMARTIES or GULLIBILITY OF THE COMMON MAN.
You decide !!!!!.
Having served as social worker within UN system, in over 40 countries during past over 35 yrs, I am shocked/disillusioned to see how India is in fact perpectuating discriminatory practices under the mask of abolishing caste-based discrimination.
The whole world has acknowledged discriminations of all sorts are crimes by humanity against humanity, and owed to abolish such inhuman practices in all walks of life, inter alia thru right education, awareness and economic well-being.
But our DK/DMK “thalaivars” and their cohorts have long owed to make “castes” as their successful business model to build and (mis)lead the Tamil empire. Their simple strategies are to keep people poor , ill-educated and uneducated and feed them with color TVs, red/black bordered veshties/ thundoos, ever-flowing never-in-supply sacheted-TASMAC liquors, unending catchy slogans matched by newly invented Tamil New Years, vizhas, etc. etc.
The present regimes both at the center and in the state have acquired great survival skills at the expense of democractic values and human dignity.
Particularly, the elite “dravidian class” are so nicely socially-well-entrenched and their scheme of things beginning with eradicating the socalled Brahmin domination in order to emancipate the truly oppressed like Dalits,… upto the present crusade to uphold the seamy side of creamy layer politics.. There is no true salvation and democracy for honest Tamils and others, unless and until we realise the social justice rhetoric is as dubious as rationalism.
Unfortunately. it is not easy how Tamils at large can be made to understand this game of “evils”.
God save Tamils!
hi……….
all over india,politicians used to blame brahmins to gain in elections.
because they know that if we blame the brahmins then there is no problem because there is no brahmin politicians and most of the brahmins are employees so most of the brahmins will not vote .
today see the brahmin priests position in economically most of them earn only 2000-3000 per month(90%) .
there is no reservations and even in govt. schools their children didn’t getting free books.
if any student got a seat in any university or in engg or medical colleges they didn’t getting any hostel seat.
ultimately i am saying that don’t misunderstand brahmins because most of brahmins fought for country and they got a good name to our country all over world and also i request you just remember your childhood,when you are in school your teachers belong to brahmin community had comment u about your caste?no never they behave like that.
1. What is Brahmin and what is brahminism? Is it a hereditary by-birth tag? Is it foisted in society to show superiority over others and psychologically intimidate others? Can someone enlight us? Please be specific and truthful, and don’t not play with words and excuses.
2. Dr Ambedkar said, ‘castism is untouchability. Unless castism goes, untouchability will not go.’ I say, ‘castism is worst form of racism and insult to human dignity.’
3. Till there is castism, there will be reservations and social tensions. Reservation to go, castism have to go. Let people come out openly to press for a national law banning caste and castism. Let, we all identify us as Hindus, follower of Sanatan Dharma, and nothing else.
Bharat
=====
Bharat, bulldog, Ramesh, Srivasa, Muthuswamy and Murthy: Thank you all for your comments.
I originally quoted this interview because I was (and still am) keen to understand the reasons, the origin and the basis of the almost pathological hatred that I sense towards Brahmins in Tamil Nadu.
I am curious to know why and how did it came about…what precipitated it…and is anyone doing anything to ameliorate the situation…
In essence, I am trying to probe deeper into the history of the anti-Brahminism movement in the South…
Can anyone shed any light on that? Thanks
hi sirs,
with 30+years of service ithe army, i can say certain things with conviction.
i am originally of salem [ senguntha mudaliar]
most of my friends are brahmins.
i have not nome across a single tamil brahmin as a jawan in the army.
most tamil brahmin officers i met are extremely progressive and forward looking.iam yet to see a single case where these officers are not {literally] worshipped by our tamil troops.
out of the 3 tamil army chiefs we had-P P Kumaramangalam,Sundarji and Padmanabhan, the latter two are brahmins.[in fact paddy’s daugter in law is a christian.
the only air chief from tamil nadu krishnaswamy is a brahmin.
sometime back we had a gallaxy of brahmin generals;Pattabhi raman,ramasubramnian,nagraj,narahari,madan gopal ,siva kumar etc.ln fact the present commandant ofofficers training academy chennai-r k swami is a tamil brahmin.-all were highly decorated.
the only Param Vir Chakra [the highest gallantry award] Holder from TN , [late ]col parameshwaran is an iyer.
l am talking with specific reference to the army,just to set the record right.
it is ironic that once during a party a General casually mentioned that he was thankful to periyar,lest he would have retired from PWD as an executive engineer from an obscure town in TN.
thanks
Why RSS, VHP , BJP, Congress are dominated and controlled by Brahmins ? Why Brahmins are in powerful positions in Communist Parties as well as BSP ? Why all Shankaracharyas are brahmins only ? Why Brahmins are still supportive of castes and varnas?
Why Brahmins discriminate against Schedule castes , schedules tribes,Dalits , Tribals, Backward Hindus and at the same time are afraid of Muslims and Christians ?
Majority of Hindu Priests ( Who are Brahmins) speak in favour of varna and caste systems and ” dhor,gavar,SHUDRA, pashu , nari , yeh sab tadan ke adhikari” publicaly and no one opposes.
See what this Brahmin shankaracharya is preaching,
This is a burning example that Brahmins show all their arguements in front of dalits and poor hindus to dominate and exploit them but these same Brahmins change their voice in front of muslims and started licking their feets..
because they know that dalits will tolerate their attrocities but muslims will kick their ass and chop their heads as they did in Somnath Temple attack.
Burning example in present : Brahmin Dikshadhar Priests are not allowing Dalit Hindus to go in the inner temple in Chidambaram Natraja Temple. Only reason Brahmin belief of so called superierness and greed to take all the temple funds.
If Brahmins dont change their casteist behaviour, its matter of few years when majority of dalits , SC , STs will convert to Christianity or Islam and kick these same brahmins from their temple.
These Brahmins have distorted the Real Hinduism and twisted the Vedas words to use for their selfish motives.
These Brahmins attacked Maharishi Dayanand Saraswati when he tried to reform Hinduism and wanted to eliminate caste system by uniting all Hindus into a Formidable Force.
He was opposed by kashi pandas who are all brahmins.
any doubts..
Dear Sir,
It is sad to note that the poison pill of the periyar has been so well distilled and fed to the minds of the people that the Brahmin has been misunderstood for ever so many years.
To set the record straight, the Brahmins were never at the helms of the affairs to take decisins. All the decisions as regards entry to temples, learning warfare, or anything of that sort was managed and was under the control of the people who held the purse strings, namely the Kshatriyas and the Vaishyas. Today you may call them the OBC,s and those not being Dalits or Sc’s or ST’s.
The Brahmins were also not entiltled to do any service which was not approved by the authorities in charge. They were only to follow instructions.
This was the plight of the Brahmins. They were to lend all the knowledge that they gained through their studies only to the persons to whom he was bound, namely a sort of indirect slavery.
The temples were managed only by the Kshatriyas and the Vaishyas, and the Brahmin had to follow the dictates of the persons in charge. It as only with the related austerities and the procedures that they were able to decide and were called upon to decide.
It was to unyoke themselves form this mindless slavery that most of them took advantage of the rule of the British and came out of their drudgery and their slavery and become world leaders in their fields. It was the fear of going back to the domination and slavery of these Kshatriyas and the Vaishyas that they left the Preistly profffession and became giants in all fields including business, Agriculture, Warfare,you name it they were there.
Periyar belonged to one of the castes which dominated the Brahmins at one time and when he and his cohorts had ascertained and come to the conclusion that they will never be able to dominate them once again they went ahead to destroy their reputation and brought in the caste system to make it appear that the Brahmins were the cause of the caste system.
It would be very apparent for a true Historian to understand this if he goes to read about the formation of the justice party, the precursor of the Dravidian parties. All the founders of this justice party were these former Kshatriyas and Vaishyas!!!
As God is nobody’s and Everbody’s business these founders targeted the Brahmins only on this front. As religion can ignite people they brought in the false picture that the Brahmins were the cause for not allowing any body else to become priests! WHAT A BLOODY JOKE!
The priests never earned anything more than what kept body and soul together.
These groups finding that if the other castes become priests their power will not be same as compared to a docile Brahmin they spread the Canard that the Brahmins were the cause of the Caste system.
The Brahmins were never made of that stuff. They played their role as required as long as they were slaves to the Kshatriyas and Vaishyas and today they are shining, NOT BECAUSE THEY BELONG TO ANY CASTE!
Regards,
vck
Thanks to the awareness created by Thanthai Periyar , Now Tamil Nadu is number one state in India. It is much more developed and safe as compared to Bihar , UP , Delhi , Mumbai ,etc.
Periyar gave self confidence to backwards and dalits. He had vision to bring social equality and unite the Hindu society. He never oppose Brahmins ,he opposed Brahminism which was responsible for exploitation of dalits for five thousand years or more.
Brahminism is dominating in Bihar , UP , Delhi and other parts and we can see poverty , lawlessness , problems of law and order , Terrorist attacks , communal riots ,etc. Whereas enlighetened people of Tamil Nadu is heading towards the developed state. Government Employees have not got salaries for months in UP , Bihar and other parts. On the other hand common people in Tamil nadu are also getting Free Coloured TVs, Cooking gas connections , Land Pattas, Free Dresses, Mid day meals , scholarships ,etc. There are no communal riots , Terror attacks in Tamil Nadu and Law & Order is best. Tamil Nadu is booming and credit goes to Great visionaries like Periyar and leaders like Kamraj , Annadurai ,etc.
In Nation’s interest Brahmins should leave all their casteist tendencies and unite with remaining Indians and work actively for upliftment of poor and needy . They should shun their so called superiority complex and move towards Nationalism which was demonstrated by Great men like Subramanian Bharati , Chandrashekhar Azad, Swatantraveer Savarkar, Lokhmanya Bal Gangadhar Tilak.
Dear Sir,
This qubilling of words is what these dravidian parties have made a game of.
Thank God, oops! Periyar was only against Brahminism and not against Brahmins.
It was by accident that groups of periyar followers went about cutting the tuft of the priests. May be that was what periyar understood of Brahminism.
Was wearing a tuft Brahminism or was it a form of a way of dressing!! for a group of people.
When he broke the Idols of Lord Vignesha, I do not understand how it was related to Brahminism! It is totally devoid of any sense of understanding of the relationship of Lord Vinesha and Brahminism.
Where is the connection? Why not Goddess Bhagwathi, Kali, Madurai Veeran, or anybody else. Why poor Lord Vignesha? what crime did he commit to be a only part of “Brahminism”.
Again whenhe spoke with a lot of vitroil on the studious habits of the poor Brahmins, what was the relationship of it to Brahminism?
This bunkum of qubbiling of words of Brahminism and Brahmins is a total fraud on the people by these so called periyar and his followeres.
They could not bend the Brahmins after they learned not to bow to the dictates of the communities to whom this periyar and his followers belonged to and they started this tirade to deginirate the Brahmins.
Regards,
vck
my dear fellow countrymen:
Let us try to understand the root cause of caste system failure due to the onslaught of consequences from colonization, globilization, capitalisim etc. Ruthless capitalism leads to unethical competition, and that is the root cause of evils in our society based on caste.
Caste system might have been created with a good intention of controlling competition in the society to generate good quality skills and peaceful life. Let me explain: Divide the society into different groups and nuture those skills specific to those groups to perfection over thousands of generations. By this process, we can divide the competition and distribute it into groups and also create the best quality groups with differnt set of skills. This is like Gene selection, like they do in plant and animal breeding to develop the best breeds.
But the success of this caste system depends on the foundation that different caste members following strict guidelines of ethical competition (respect to any individual irresepctive of his skill, and no abuse of their authority and power). In our hindu society, some bad elements of all the castes abused weaker sections with their authority and power, for their greed.
All castes have bad elements, but the reason for so much focus on brahmins is their caste characterisitc, knowledge. Today’s prosperity is based on knowledge economy and the weaker sections of the society who are unable to get into this economy blame the brahmins. In an ideal caste system based on ethical competition, all castes need to come together to the rescue of the weaker castes, whose skills need to be upgraded as per the current and future requirements of the economy. But as we all know, ideal systems always fail to become reality, because of the bad elements who abuse the system.
In the current generation, ruthless globalization and capitalism, will only degrade the ethics of competition drastically. Already our ancient caste system has successfully divided our hindu society because of the constant abuse of weaker castes (less demand skills) by the stronger castes (strong demand skills).
The only solution for the current hindu caste system crisis is dismantle these caste groups and start all over again. Finding new solution is really tough, because with ever growing indian population, survival is the one and only priority for any indian. More globilization leads to more greed and ruthless unethical competition. The need of the hour for Indian society is to create individuals with strong respect for his family and his community (all Indians). To create such individuals, we need good parents, gurus from all walks of life as role models with strong Hindu spiritual values.
Its time that these caste groups are demolished, if not the entire hindu society will perish. Some individuals are living in dreams that somehow their caste group will survive in isolation.
Either we abolish evil caste system and varn vyavastha or be prepared to die one by one.
We should remember well that Muslims are more than 24 crore now and are multiplying. where muslims are in significant numbers , we can see rise in crime , rape , riots , terrorism ,etc. Kashmir and Assam are burning in fires of Jehad and now its fires have reached to every state of India.
Islamists are preparing for full scale direct action day or civil war.
Mullahs have clearly intructed muslims to march ahead on one line formula,
Increase of population
Radicalise Muslims and Unite them
Arm them well and train them in sophisticated technology of Arms / Ammunition by Terror courses like “Daura e Aam” and ” Daura e Khaas” and
Coordinate all Muslim efforts to Islamise whole India by help of Saudi Money and Pakistani Logistics.
India is going Islamic.
The sword of islam will spare no one when time comes.
till than keep on fighting on the basis of caste , creed , colour , state , language , status , ideologies, parties , sects …
Radical Muslims are marching towards India that is Bharat.
More Muslims = More Terror = More Bloodshed = More Destruction
and
Islam means Peace ( Before muslims are fully prepared for civil war)
http://www.hindutva.org
Islam is the greatest danger for India and the World.
Whole Future is in dark.
When someone like Chatrapati Shivaji will rise and unite all Indians to fight against these hordes of illegal offsprings of Babur, Aurangzeb, Akbar and Alaudins.
Daksha R.
my friends:
I agree that Islam is the most dangerous weapon in the world right now, even nuclear weapons will not come close to it. Nuclear weapon will kill everyone on the spot instantaneously. But Islam will kill the humanity on a daily basis in the name of Jihad. We know where the nuclear weapons of our enemy state or located to target it, but no one knows (even USA) how to locate islamic jihad and target it. Islamic Jihad is a targetless, faceless danger spreading like a Virus.
For Indians, the only way to deal with islamic terror is a strong united Hindu community. But hindu society is a combination of one million communites without unity and which makes it easy for the islamic jihadis. Hindu society itself has its own bad elements, who are more dangerous than jihadi elements.
Strategy 1 for hindus:
Weed out the bad elements in the hindu society to make it a strong united Hindu society. To achieve this goal, demolish the caste system structure completely and start all over again. Helping meritorious and economically poor hindus from all caste groups is the top most priority. If you are hindu, meritorious and poor, and he/she should be helped by the Hindu society as a whole.
Strategy 2 to convert non-hindus to indian nationalists:
Especially muslim community is the most important internal and external problem for our National security. Immediately take measures to control their population like educating the poor uneducated muslim women. Make muslim women more modern, open-minded, educated and independent. Basically, to say bluntly, westernize muslim women and muslim youth.
Rapid modernization of muslim youth, muslim women and muslim education is the potent strategy to demolish the iron grip of islam jihadic grip on muslim community.
Another important factor is never let non-hindus dominate any region in India. Hindu society shoud help to build and develop hindu communites around muslim/christian dominated areas and balance out the enemy strength. If we allow rapid growing of muslim/christian dominated regions, then these will act like enemy colonies within India like tickling time bombs.
Need of the hour, we need a strategist like chanakya and ruler like chandragupta maurya, to make a united strong hindu society. No indian will be safe in India, if we allow these jihadis to procreate like pigs in India. No indian has time to worry about, who is a sleeper and an active terror cell in India, in his busy rat race life. To stop this islamic menace, India needs help of all hindus at the community and individual level.
The goal of hindus are Unite hindus, Destroy islamic jihadic grip on muslims, Convert muslims from islamic jihadis to indian nationalists. If we can achieve unifying hindus, then all religious conversions of hindus will disappear.
bala, Sharan, vck, Tamil, bharat, Naren, Sarita, Daksha: Thanks all for your comments…
We seem to be moving slightly off topic (in the last few comments…)…Please comment on caste system in Hinduism here:
https://satyameva-jayate.org/2007/10/09/hinduism-caste-system-and-discrimination/
I would like this (Periyar) post to have a deeper discussion about what were the factors and caused behind Periyar’s ideology…
I would particularly welcome contributions from those who are in TN (or have lived there in the past)…Nothing like first-hand understanding…
Thanks for a robust discussion.
Dear Sir,
Continuing on the relevance of caste and the periyar conflict, it is time one reflects on this thought process rather than harping on caste.
To quote an example, if we analyse the story of Daksha and his insult to Bhagwan Shiva and the consequent events you will notice one VERY SIGNIFICANT MATTER, there were no BRAHMINS INVOLVED in the coflict but only Kshatriyas vis-a-vis the priests who were to conduct the yagna of Daksha.
The priests refused to perform the yagna as it will antagonise Lord Shiva, but Daksha FORCED THEM to perform the yagna.
This goes to reiterate my point that the Brahmins were in no way related to acting or non acting, (The performing of rituals kind), they were forced into acting a particular way by the Kshatriyas and Vaishyas who held the power and purse strings.
The concept of caste was and is being kept alive by the others and never the Brahmins as they were powerless in every sort! So who was this periyar against, was it Brahmins or Brahminism?
Again to prove one more point for the Brahmins, that they were not casteist, let us go back to the Ramayana.
Lord Rama was a Kshatriya and Lord Ravana a Brahmin and whom does the Brahmin pray to?? The answer is self evident as to who created the caste system, if it was existent, and what did this periyar fight against, Brahmins or Brahminism!!
Regards,
vck
Dear friends:
If we want to analyze, why periyar was against brahmins in detail, all we have to understand is the mindset of an opportunistic politician. Periyar wanted an issue, which can be made into mass movement in Tamilnadu to grab political power. Brahmins are only a minority and he used the caste system failures in his propaganda to his advantage. As I mentioned in my previous posts, majority of the hindus are in weaker castes and they are made to believe that all their sufferings were due to lack of access to education controlled by brahmins.
Brahmins because of their caste characteristic, emphasis on education were natural and easy targets to Periyar. In ancient days brahmins were looked upon as the guiding force of hindu religion. They were highly respected because of their simple life, living on donations from the other hindu community members. So the other caste members had no problems with brahmins because they were not craving for money and power. But during british rule, many brahmins highly english educated got access to materialistic comforts and power. This trend of brahmins getting access to money and power directly without depending on hindu community created jealousy and suspicion among other castes. Periyar made use of this latent resentment towards brahmins in hindu community to make it into a mass anti-brahmin movement.
Anti-Brahmin movement was so successful in Tamilnadu because tamil brahmins were very successful in getting access to money and power through knowledge (british rule, Indian Congress Party etc) than other brahmins in other states. Obvioulsy, with money and power, one gets attention, and this unwanted attention for brahmins was used by Periyar to create and sustain insecurities among the majority lower caste members. With highly educated, successful members with independent mindsets in brahmins caste, it was always tough to create unity and bring all brahmins together. So brahmins were a divided lot and failed to put a stop to the Periyar movement collectively.
All those movements for non-brahmin priests, atheism, reservations, were a outcome of the insecurities among weaker castes, used by Periyar to grab political power for his own selfish goals. Periyar and DMK parties clearly knew that as long as hindu caste system failures create insecurities among weaker castes, it is a cake walk for them to nurture and develop these insecurities into hatred towards brahmins.
Conclusion: As long as hindu caste system with loopholes generate insecurites among weaker castes toward stronger castes, new political parties will be formed by selfish politicians with agendas of hatred to stronger castes. In case of tamilnadu, stronger caste: brahmin, selfish politician: Periyar, annadurai etc, Parties: DMK, PMK et.al.,
“But during british rule, many brahmins highly english educated got access to materialistic comforts and power.”
So Bharat you want to say that when whole Country was struggling for India’s Independence , The Brahmins were learning english and enjoying materialistic comforts by collaborating with British Power.
“Tamil brahmins were very successful in getting access to money and power through knowledge (british rule, Indian Congress Party etc) than other brahmins in other states.”
So you admit that Tamil Brahmins were successful in getting access to money and power during British Rule. ( What can I say its understood now).
And you also confirm the fact that Brahmins were the major chunk forming the Congresss party which was responsible for Muslim Appeasement, Anti Revolutionary ( Congress in leadership of Nehru never supported Bhagat singh / Azad / Subhash Bose / Bismil ) and to an extent pro british.
Indirectly truth has came out of you.
I ask you why so called wise and intelligent Brahmins used their intelligence in serving British and Congress ? Why they didnot participated in mass revolutionary movement in for India’s Freedom struggle instead of learning English , making money , enjoying power and materialistic comforts.
I am sure the great soul of Subramaniam Bharati will be very sad by your views.
1. We have to distinguish Brahmins (by quality and actions, not by birth) from rascals under the mask of Brahmins (what I call surname Tag-holder frauds). They are in same league of surname Tag-holder Gandhi frauds.
2. A person is a Brahmin by guna (quality) and karma (action), not by birth. Swami Vivekananda, Sri Aurobindo, Ramana Maharshi, Dr Ambedkar etc are few examples of personalities having qualities of Brahmin. Today we have Mata Amritanandamayi, Swami Ramdev, Sri Sri Ravisankar, whom people worship even.
3. Its time, surname Tag-holder rascals must face the truth and reform themselves to become humane before getting the stamp of Indian Jews. Once that stage reaches, that would be very dangerous for them. There is a limit to manipulations. They must learn it from Jews history. Rest is history.
4. It is not that I have hatred against any community. No, I wish to see an egalitarian Hindu samaj, where we treat each other with respect and dignity. We can’t achieve that without removing caste practices.
Bharat
=====
vck, Bharat, Tapan: Thanks for sharing your thoughts…
***
@ Tapan: I think it is a bit unfair to accuse Brahmins of not participating “in mass revolutionary movement…for India’s Freedom struggle…”
Bal Gangadhar Tilak was a Brahmin..So was Veer Savarkar, so was ChandraShekhar Azad, so were Rajguru, Pandit Ram Prasad Bismil…and many others…
There is a dire need for reform within Hinduism but that need will not go away by generalisations, sweeping accusations and wholesale condemnations – of Brahmins or of any other “castes”…
I feel the need of the hour is to unite the community and develop a sense of Hindu identity that is not anchored in the “caste” that one is born into – but in a core set of beliefs – in which we can all feel pride…
If you have not already done so, I would recommend you have a look at this post: Is this too much to ask?
Thanks.
Thanks Shantanu Brother.
I have highest regards for Veer Savarkar, Nathuram Godse, Keshav Hedghewar, Lokkmanya Tilak, Subhash Chandra Bose, Ram Prasad Bismil, Mangal Pandey, Chafekar Brothers, Vasudev Phadke, Deendayal Upadhaya, Shyamaprasad Mukerji and above all Maharishi Swami Dayanand Saraswati.
But I hate these tag holding traitors who think that they were born from the head of God and rest others from legs , thighs ,etc. They think they are superior and try to exploit Hindu Samaj by quoting from Brahminical books like manusmriti.
What do you call people like jawaharlal nehru, narayandatt tiwari, motilal vohra, atal bihari vajpayee, anant kumar , arun jeyley , sushma swaraj,jayanti natrajan, somnath chaterji, kalraj mishra,namburipaad,Nitin gadkari ….are they worth of calling Brahmins..?
Now we should stop discussing about the caste and Brahmin – Non Brahmin issues. We should focus on the issues which are posing a existential threat to Hindu society and Indian Nation.
We need United Hindu Samaj of 850 million Hindus.
Nothing else.
1. Tapan: Well done, you spoke out your heart. Keep it up. Every Hindu need to speak out this way, then only possible to emliminate inhuman caste practices. Note, we must practice what we preach, else it carries no value. It is the caste of mind (thinking I am this, so superior etc), that have to go.
2. Shantanu: You said, “Bal Gangadhar Tilak was a Brahmin..So was Veer Savarkar, so was ChandraShekhar Azad, so were Rajguru, Pandit Ram Prasad Bismil…and many others…”.
You identified them as Brahmin by their surnames and by-birth inheritance. Does a person become Brahmin or sudra by-birth or inheritance? Where it is written (sastras?), where is the logic, who is going to bother such perversion?
Above mentioned persons became famous by their action of warriors, protectors of their nation (i.e. Kshatriya function). When one takes a gun and fight in the battle field, are not performing Brahmin’s actions or sudra’s actions, but Kshatriyas.
What we are going to say about Maharshi Valmiki, Maharshi Vyas, Buddha, Mahavir, Swami Vivekananda, Sri Aurobindo, Swami Ramdev, Mata Amritanandamayi? They are not so-called by-birth or inheritance Brahmin?
I bet, not even 0.0000000001% out all the surname tag-holder rascals even know the meaning of the word ‘Brahmin’. The person who knows the meaning (Brahma-gyan, Knowldge of the Supreme Reality), that person will never utter a word saying I am Brahmin or this or that. These people Maharshi Vyas, Maharshi Valmiki, Buddha, Mahavir, Swami Vivekananda, Sri Aurobindo, Swami Ramdev, Mata Amritanandamayi ete didn’t shouted, saying I am so big, I am superior. Hundreds of thousands of tag-holders Brahmins worship Mata Amritanandamayi (daughter of a poor fisherman).
3. The fact is that, these ignorant surname tag-holder rascals are sufering from inferiority complex. No person, who don’t feel inferior will bark and say I am this and I am that. One’s character and quality reflects one’s personality.
4. A stringent National Caste Practices Prohibition Law is the need of the hour. Again, law alone is not enough, caste have to go from our mind.
Bharat
=====
@ Tapan: I think we are in violent agreement!
I agree with you and Bharat that any Hindu who claims (or believes in) superiority on the basis of birth is a blot on the glorius traditons of Sanatan Dharma.
Those who try and exploit these divisions are even worse…they are – as you have said – traitors.
And Tapan, I found your conclusion very positive: “Now we should stop discussing about the caste and Brahmin – Non Brahmin issues. We should focus on the issues which are posing a existential threat to Hindu society and Indian Nation.
We need United Hindu Samaj of 850 million Hindus. Nothing else.”
***
@ Bharat: You have put your finger on it: “It is the caste of mind (thinking I am this, so superior etc), that have to go.”
Absolutely…and that is our biggest challenge…
My purpose in quoting the names I quoted was not to prove that someone becomes a Brahmin merely because of a surname..It was a word of caution against making blanket remarks..
As you have said, our deeds must define who we are…and just because we do a particular deed does not make us superior or inferior…Thus a “Shudra” who performs the rituals is as worthy of respect as a “Brahmin” who sweeps the streets…and they are as much to be respected for what they do – as the “Vaishya” who defends our borders.
The fight is with the attitudes in people’s minds…and that will take geunine reform..reform of the mind – rather than reform of the laws…
Thanks to both of you for an engaging discussion.
From Centuries , we Indians are busy debating God, karmakand and ways of worship. Now its time for all of us to stop debate and do some real action on the ground. I would like pull all of you from the blogosphere and start working in real world.
Leave all the books behind , start picking up weapons to fight against the enemies of nation.
In time of Danger , all Indians should behave like Kshatriyas , We all should strive to become warriors to defend the Nation, Dharma and Society from these evil forces of Darkness.
As Guru Govind Singh Maharaj gave Sant – Sipahi ( Saint-Soldier) concept. That when time comes, every Saint should be ready to become Soldier. when his disciples were bring him gifts of gold – silver(ornaments,jewellery,coins) , he refused and asked them to bring Iron ( swords, shields,arrows,knives,weapons) and Horses for the Khalsa Army to defend the Dharma from the evil muslim rulers like Aurangzeb. When he told in a meeting that we need sacrifice for the Religion and nation , The Five People who came forward to offer themselves for sacrifice were all from the so called low castes , backward castes or dalits. They were the First Panch Pyare. and Guru Maharaj took Amrit from them and made Khalsa Panth to turn Indian into fierce Warriors. That is one True Khalsa will be equal to 1,25,000 Mughal Invaders. he showed it in the field. So I challenge all those who boast of their superiority and caste pride in front of the backward and dalit hindus , to go show their intelligence and power in front of the cruel muslism and cunning Christians.
It is need of time , that we all must Unite and Militarise Ourselves to form a formidable Force.
Now our Amarnath Yatra is stopped by these Jehadis. Our Parliament attacked , Temples bombed , Train Burnt , Aeroplanes highjacked , People murdered..
What else we are waiting for….?
Come out from the virtual world and get ready to work for the sake of Nation day and night…
Jai Hind
Wahe Guruji Ki Fateh
Wahe Guruji Ka Khalsa
Indians like Dr. Paul kirubakaran and Rev.Paul Jesudoss
are actively implementing their plans to convert India into Christanity in few decades. They have estabished their NGOs, Offices and training people to actively convert Hindus.
From: “REV.PAUL JESUDOSS,B.E”
>
> Grace Ministry For Abused Women,
> We praise God for you & for your wonderful ministry,
> we 100s of forsaken babies because,
> The earthquake in India was actually far worse than you have heard. We
> have just received reports indicating that the death toll will climb well
> past the 100,000 mark. One official told Dr. PAUL KIRUBABKARAN (One of the
> heads of LIVING ROCK MINISTRIES International of India, ) that as many as
> 150,000 people may have lost their
> lives on that fateful morning of January 26.But a bigger story is
> unfolding in the midst of this epic disaster – a spiritual story that has
> implications for India’s one billion lost souls.India is the center of a
> great spiritual battle, and even the nation’s secular media is catching on
> to this fact. On television and radio and in the major newspapers across
> India, reporters have actually posed the question, “Is the Christian God
> angry about the persecution of His people?”They are daring to ask such
> questions because the city of Bhuj, the unofficial headquarters for
> anti-Christian persecution in the western India state of Gujarat, was the
> epicenter of the quake. Within the past year, attacks on Christian workers
> in and around Bhuj have been severe. Scores of church buildings have been
> vandalized and torched. In an organized effort on one day, over 200
> pastors were beaten and threatened. Several have been martyred for the
> faith.
>
> The earthquake all but obliterated Bhuj, a city of 150,000. No major
> buildings are left standing. At least one-fifth of the population was
> killed.The entire state of Gujarat was rocked viciously by the quake,
> opening up chasms as much as 20 feet wide. In places, the earth literally
> swallowed people alive. As of this writing, a majority of our pastors in
> Gujarat have reported to our ministry headquarters in Kota (about 300
> miles to the east(. The reports are amazing. Not one Christian from our
> churches has died, and not one of our buildings has been destroyed! A
> Hindu reporter asks about the earthquake, “Would the Christian God do such
> a thing to take His revenge?” Such questions actually started over a year
> ago, when India suffered two other natural disasters – the most powerful
> cyclone ever, followed by the most deadly flood on record. Those disasters
> happened in the State of Orissa, where Christians had been openly
> persecuted on a wide scale. Orissa was also the state where Australian
> missionary Graham Staines and his two young sons were burned alive in
> their jeep by militant anti-Christians.
>
> Something truly is beginning to happen in India. Gospel seed planted for
> generations is starting to bear fruit. A great spiritual harvest is
> coming, and we must be prepared to send laborers into that harvest. India
> has approximately 600,000 unreached cities and villages – places without a
> permanent Gospel witness or a local church. Dr. Paul kirubakaran and
> Rev.Paul Jesudoss have a planto reach every one of those cities and villages
> through a unique strategy. They are raising up thousands of orphans –
> God’s Orphan Army” – to take the truth of Jesus to all of India. Their
> goal is very simple; raise one hundred orphans in the nurture and
> admonition of the Lord, and send them out as missionaries. The plan is
> working. Hundreds of orphans have already been raised and sent out, and
> thousands more are now being loved and cultivated for Christian service.
> As of today, Church of Jesus is caring for over 300 boys and girls in 3
> orphanages. Hundres more are waiting to be taken in. (One government
> official has already asked . Flora joan receiving the untold number of
> orphans from Gujarat who were left motherless and fatherless by the
> devastating earthquake.) Next year 45 young preachers will
> graduate from the Church of Jesus Bible Institute,Madurai,. A large
> percentage of them
> are orphans who have been raised to serve the Lord Jesus Christ. They are
> ready and willing to go wherever He leads. The entire class of 2001 – all
> young pastors – have committed their lives to full-time Christian
> service.
>
> Every one of them, without exception. A large number are bound for
> Gujarat., and most have chosen to go there simple because it presents the
> greatest challenge. I will tell you as frankly as possible: We do not have
> the funds to support these preachers of the Gospel. When they
> graduate on march we will give each one a new church site or building but
> we have no money to help them begin their ministries or
> to sustain them in the hard days ahead. We desperately need loving
> Christians elsewhere who will stand behind each
> graduate with financial and prayerful support.
>
> Yours for a great harvest,
> signed…………………………..
> (for forsaken babies home,
> Dr.Flora Joan Jesudoss)
> plot#514,K.K.Nagar,Madurai-625020,India.
> phone&fax(0091-452-651519)
>
> May God Touch Your Hearts To Help Them
http://graceofjesus.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard/announcements.cgi
Brahmins are the curse of Indian society. Inward looking and selfish, they still seek to dominate India through religion. The BJP is their political front. After a “hindu ” rashtra is established who would be the people in control as per their ideaology? It is time that the oppressed peoples on India started to unite and remove this blight from among our midst. Caste and creed have only divide us and a house divided against itself will fall. Surely this is what the BJP and the brahmins are trying to achieve. To cling to some vestige of their former power even if it means dismembering this great nation? Even I have Brahmin acquaitences. Some are my friends, especially if they are educated and are able to forge their own identities apart from that of their caste. Most of them cannot do so in this brave new world and turn out to be sleazy, slimy and pretentious about their own supposed superiority. Someone needs to tell them that in breeding doesn’t help. They seek to use the politics of identity and hate to further their own selfish interests and are a stain on the fabric of this nation that must be washed away, if needed with blood.
*** NOTE by MODERATOR ***
@ Vortun: I am letting your comment stay although it has some blanket remarks offering little evidence to support your conclusion(s). But please be aware that I may not feel so generous the next time you post such comments.
I also feel that you have not actually read the post or the comments by other readers. If you have, I look forward to your response…
I hope you realise that calling all Brahmins “Inward looking and selfish”, “sleazy, slimy and pretentious…” does not help a reasonable debate.
Thanks.
I am not an upper caste hindu but I have lot of brahmin friends. My closest friend is a brahmin. Nobody treated me badly. Infact I found them very helpful. Few of my brahmin friends married from lower castes(the couple is from orissa ). Suprisingly it was the families of the lower caste who were against such a marriage and not the familes of my brahmin friends. Caste system is being followed by few but I am confident that it will vanish after few decades. Lets all unite and work for hinduism. True hinduism doesn’t descriminate. 🙂
Periyar, Anna, Karunanithi…all of them belong to the lowest species of human existence with respect to their inner quality. Now in this interview, the director states that in Periyar’s eyes, religion separated mankind and therefore he hated God. If this were true, Periyar well and truly possessed the mind and heart of a Kindergarten kid, most simplistic. If this man could not differentiate between religion and spirituality, fie on him and his stupid “goat” followers. The truth is clear, even a new born would know it, man is in general sectarian by nature and that naturally crept into religion as well. When man’s sectarianism is in play, Periyar in his infinite wisdom blamed God for it. He was not even clear if disbelieved in God or disbelieved in GOd as man had projected it to be. Immaturity of the highest order. As for Anna, his venomous statement against the Brahmins was, “if you see Cobra and a Brahmin”, kill the Brahmin first. When he managed to discern the fact that Brahmins could sell ideologies to people primarily owing to their being more articulate and better read than the rest, he resorted to tame “being against Brahminism and not Brahmins” as the election dates drew closer. Please read Kannadasan’s “vanavAsam” and get to know what this overrated fellow was all about and how he orchestrated bloody, violent confrontations between DMK factions and acted as if he was intervening (with tears in his eyes) and attempting to pacify with a view to winning over both the factions. There is a fanstastic episode about how Anna proudly shoved a ring around Karunanithi’s finger and announced that he had done for Mu.ka what he had not done for his wife, that is purchase a ring. Within a few minutes, Kannadasan came to know that Mu.ka himself had purchased the ring for Anna to “mock” present it to him in public. Such goons have been ruling us for decades together. Mu.ka is not worthy of mention though a few incidents about him make interesting reads….about how he managed to corner a street walker and walk away after the experience without paying her and then tom tomming his “achievements” within the DMK ranks for months together!!!
Lastly, I am glad there was an anti-Brahmin movement overtly as well as subtly as Brahmins started moving out of a state coming to ruins (only 2% Brahmins live in TN) to end up leading a prosperous and a very rich life outside of TN and outside of India. So much for DMK and DK goats that lead misguided lives.
@Sri Vatsan:
To you, perhaps a surname/by-birth tag-holder Brahmin, the names Periyar, Anna, Karunanidhi are lowest human species. To others, they are great social reformers and givers of self-respect and justice.
How come few lowest human species influence so much that, 98% species support them and less than 2% hate them? It is clear, 98% belong to lowest human species and due their overwhelming majority they have the right to control power and dominance. Why not.
Two percent played their worst racist discrimnation policy for a long time, it was obvious time tooks care of deprived 98%. Time is a great corrector and leveler, it discriminates none. Monopoly of 2% gone, they must reconcile to exists. Else, they will extinct like dynosaurs. Adaptation and adjustment sustains species existence.
I, along with million of followers of Sanatan dharma, offer salutations to great reformers and personalities of Periyer, Anna, Karunanidhis, Ambedkars… We need many more such personalities to liberate the Hindu samaj and create an egalitarian Sanatan Hindu society.
Bharat, they are low with respect to inner quality and I have cited the reasons. Brahmins practiced the worst form of discrimination…agreed, but no race changed as fast as the Brahmin race did. Check it out today (or rewind by 30 years) and you will find that the most disgusting form of discrimination “untouchablism” is practiced ONLY by Non-Brahmin higher castes. This is prevalent even TODAY for sure. Brahmins are adaptable and the generations that followed the generation that practiced discrimination were against it and turned over a new leaf pretty swiftly whereas the Dravidian race continued sobbing and pointing fingers and continued screaming about reservations continuously. There are severly oppressed classes of people in TamilNadu (several of them) only owing to other Dravidian races practicing casteism and NOT because of the 2% Brahmins who have grown well beyond this stupidity. The likes of the names you have mentioned are not evolved inwardly and when the likes of Anna and Karunanithu did come to power, Tamilnadu was NOT in need of a Dravidian Munnetra kazhagam to further the cause of Dravidians because Brahmins by then had already found greener pastures. Fellows like Karunithi by their actions/ speech have clearly not gotten over their built-in feeling of inferiority and try to cover it up with statements replete with words like “sudran”, “Brahmanan” etc.
Bharat, you need all those names even NOW only because the high caste Dravidians practice casteism of the worst kind even in 2008, and NOT because of the 2% Brahmins who have turned over a new leaf and gone beyond the sectarian stupidity. Brahmins did practice all that in the past, but the very next generation of Brahmins changed as fast as no other species did and started looking at higher things in life while Dravidians continued with their hero worshipping and their slavish modes of existence. This time to other high caste Dravidian races.
Finally, when the overrated Anna and Karunanithi came to power, there was no need for a party to further the Dravidian cause, (Brahmins had already found greener pastures and could make hay with their intelligence). There was no need for a DMK, there was a need for LCDMK (Low caste Dravidar Munnetra kazhagam). That is why you have other low lives like Thirumavalavan, K.Veeramani etc who as expected, scavenge money so much so that they would put a vulture to shame. So much for the reformers and their insularity, their so called movements were merely tools to cover up their inherent, in-built feeling of inferiority…a simple case of low self-esteem. A good process of introspection and meditation would have helped them tide over this issue as opposed to throwing chappals at old Brahmin widows.
Its my opinion guys,
One can become brahmin anytime. Its not a big deal. My community has many families. Some are very spiritual, keeps high morals and thinking. Some don’t. Now there is dicrimination among one community also when the time comes to find right partner for daughter or son. We wont marry our kids to the families who has no good track or records.
So please follow good conduct, high morals, spiritual life, and raise your children with right values and attitudes to be brahmin to eradicate this discrimination. Brahminism has nothing to do with born brahmin.
Hope not offending to anyone
The demonizing of brahmins in Tamil Nadu by the Dravida parties and the other backward castes is very similar to the demonizing of the jews prior to the holocaust. Please understand that the removal of brahmins from the state of Tamil nadu is in letter and spirit no different from the removal of the Kashmir pandits from their homeland. Those who justify or attempt to justify this by stating that brahmins of the past were discriminatory and therefore it is okay to target the present generations are guilty of the same bigotry that they accuse brahmins of. If what happened to the Brahmin community in Tamil Nadu had happened to Muslims or any other minority groups, human rights groups would have protested. But the non-violent brahmin is easy target.
What the Brahmins are guilty of is not fighting back. Instead of quietly going out of the state, they should have organized themselves as a group and fought against the discrimination.
Not just in TN, but all over india, ethnic cleansing of brahmins is being pedalled as Social Justice. Unfortunately, many brahmin leaders, writers, liberals and newspapers are collaborating in this venture – (a) by publishing false stories, (b) by hiding current day facts and (c) by using masking words like “Caste Hindus”, “Upper Caste” etc.
First of all,
Everybody (including me) clean up the mind with purest water (Ganga).
Why somebody gets angry if someone is against Brahmin?
Who has the right to call himself that he is Brahmin?
As per the discussion and given proof from the ancient records any body by just doing the proper “Karma” can attain the height, then where is the question of “ethnic cleansing of brahmins”.
Do we want to test how much open minded current Generation of Hindus are? Just ask following two questions to yourself.
1. Are we ready to become Shudra (Seva Bhave) by “Karma†– to serve the humanity? (Ans: Yes or No?)
2. Are we ready to marry any women from any caste or any religion and pull them into the Sanatan Dharma? (Ans: Yes or No?)
First of all erase the Caste System completely on a war scale; we cannot wait for evil to die by its own.
Learn, teach and help one poor family.
Absorb all the good that exists.
Islam – A strong organisation (remove the rigidness from it, be flexible).
Christianity- Help poor (remove the intention of conversion from it)
Buddhism – Non Violence by thought (But be powerful mentally and physically, Shakti Sampan)
Jainism – All Living beings is God (include Non Living in it)
Sikhism – Believe in “Karma” Include everything from Sikhism (Bravest soldier of Bharat)
Wahe Guruji Ki Fateh
Wahe Guruji Ka Khalsa
I think I have given a big lecture here.
Summary of all is “Sanatan Dharma” known as Hinduism to outside world.
„Jai Hind, Jai Bharat, Jai Sanatan Dharma“
FAQ for “Sanatan Dharma”
Q:What is your religion?
A: No religion. I have a way of life
Q:What is your caste?
A: I don’t know any word called as ‘caste’. In detail Brahmin by Brain (Knowledge), Khastriya by Chest (Warrior), Vaisya by work, Shudra to help.
Q:What is your Dharma?
A: Sanatan Dharma or Hinduism.
Q:How to convert to Sanatan Dharma?
A: There is no conversion,
If you are thinking then you are already Sanatan Dharmi.
Rakesh: Very thought-provoking comment…Thanks…Will definitely respond in more detail later on.
Hi,
Got interested into this article.. I will read it again.
Am not a avid history reader and have very less info knowledge about the caste war then.
But as an observer, the hierarchy of superiority complex due to birth race exists in most of the communities, leave alone Brahmin. Without much statistical relavence, I would say in non urban places, there are less number of Brahmins. However the deepest racial divide is practiced in non urban areas.
Education/Literature (oh not the school / college where we dont have options)… tries to remove this taboo. But quality literature is either not available or doesn’t have the money muscle to be spread across.
The same person who was not bothered about caste in young age, turns hard core caste supported. That remains a concern to me.. why people when getting experience in life are more concerned about caste? shouldn’t this be otherway?
While glimpsing through the post, someone tried to discredit entire Muslim community as terrorists.
On one hand we are against the apartheid towards Brahmin’s. On the otherhand we don’t condemn and being silent, encourage apartheid against other community/religion? is it fair?
– more later
Tamil Nadu’s reservation policy is an anti-Tamil policy.
It is hardly suprising considering that top leaders in Tamilnadu including Karunanidhi, Ramadoss, Vaiko, Vijayganth all are of Telugu origin; Jayalalitha is of Kannada origin; Periyar was Kannada; MGR was Malayali. Anti-Brahminism is also anti Tamil policy. These ‘Tamil?’ (=Telugu) leaders claim that Brahmins are not Tamils and supposed to be Aryan origin. They dont explain that most Tamil Brahmins speak TAMIL AT HOME and these so-called Tamils dont – THEY SPEAK TELUGU. Several OBCs in Tamilnadu speak Hindi or Telugu not Tamil!!!!! Also interesting that places where the so-called forward caste Tamils dont exist; attacks on Tamils still take place- like Keerippatti; the wall controversy in Uthapuram. It may not come in the news – but our ‘Tamil’ (=Telugu) leaders have a big hand. What may not also come in the news is that MOST OF SMALL TEMPLES IN TAMILNADU HAVE IDOLS STOLEN – who? – by our ‘Tamil’ (=Telugu) leaders. Another Interesting Tamil Nadu’s reservation policy seems to prefer Hindi and Telugu castes but not Tamil castes. Also note: removal of lines in Thamizh Thaai Vaazhzhthu for which the court case is on. Really DMK and PMK and other ‘Tamil’ (=Telugu) parties are against the Tamil language but appear in public otherwise.
Hindu-haters have no use for facts and figures. Nor do they care to produce facts and figures in support of whatever comes out of their pea-sized brains. These idiots would have come across scores of people in their lives. Through their miserable eyes they would have seen events unfolding every minute. They don’t want to believe what they have seen or heard. They have no interest in their own experiences of dealing with other humans. That constitution, courts, police, law-enforcement machinery, etc exist is irrelevant to them. But what they are extremely interested in is something called “manusmriti†compiled in some unknown century. They will go on, and on and on about manu’s prescription on varius issues, in particular about the necessity “to pour molten lead or oil into the ears†of some xxx person, if he had overheard the ‘Vedas’ being recited. Not even for a minute will these morons think whether it has ever been done in the past one thousand years. They would not pause to even think whether they have witnessed a “molten lead pouring†incident in the fifty-sixty years of their lives, nor would they have asked anyone whether they inturn had witnessed such an incident.
Now, let us seriously consider whether it is at all possible to indulge in a “molten lead pouring†activity.
Is lead so cheap and can it be melted so easily? Are all “vedapathashalas†keeping a furnace burning perpetually to keep lead in a perpetual state of liquid form? And, how much lead can be poured into a person’s ears?
But the beauty of the whole thing is that it requires a “King†to order “molten lead or oil or some other chemical†to be poured into the ears of some xxx person. For that, first we would have to appoint a King who in turn will have to appoint lakhs of people to keep track of all those supposedly not entitled to hear the “vedasâ€. Appointing a King would necessarily require overthrowing the constitution, the elected governments and defeating the army and other security forces. Can all this be done? No.No.No.
There are several other importnat facts that we must consider. In several states, “vedapathashalas” based on reservation, admit students (for priestly jobs) who are allegedly not supposed to hear the “vedas”. Have we heard that any attempt has even been made to pour “molten lead” into their ears? If we are believe these Hindu-hating morons and imbeciles, it would seem that the Govt is actually setting up a situation for conducting the “lead pouring” activity!!! Certainly, such an activity would be an act of unparalled cruelty!!!
The other fact is that many “pundits” openly through the medium of television not only chant the “vedas” but also explain their meanings. Their preachings/tutorials are available to the people at large. Does this activity not contradict “manu’s” prescription?
But all such evidences are useless for the Hindu-haters.
That is why we must necessarily conclude that those who quote the “molten lead must be poured†stuff are either mentally-retarded morons or have put their pea-sized brains into the flush.
Hindu haters (who are also separatists and nation-wreckers) have found the centuries-old “manusmriti†a veritable treasure house to abuse a section of the Hindus and the nation itself and secure supremacist rights. But in selectively quoting from the “manusmriti†even a commonsense approach is not adopted. One wonders whether there exists grey matter in their heads.
Now let us consider the following quotation (translated into English!) from the manusmriti –
“…If a (low-born man) mentions the name or caste of a superior revilingly, an iron pin, ten inches long, shall be thrust into his mouth (red hot).â€
But what are the facts?
The hate-brahmin movement started in different parts of the country nearly a century ago and is growing with nazi-like ferocity with each passing day. There are thousands of web-sites (anti-social and anti-national naturally) that glowingly eulogise such anti-social movements. The media and various other so-called “progressive†elements instead of condemning and feeling ashamed of such genocidal hate campaigns, approvingly refer to such movements as “anti-caste†movements.
During the past one hundred years all kinds of illegal, anti-constitutional and derogatory ‘labels’ have been invented and pasted on the hapless victims, some of which are “upper casteâ€, “forward casteâ€, “oppressorsâ€, “schemersâ€, “wilyâ€, “Brahmin dog†etc. (Considering the above, the word “reviling” is surely a mild word)
Such sustained campaigns and the supremacist rights secured from such campaigns have denied lakhs of innocent citizens of their right to education and livelihood and has driven them out from their homes and the nation resulting in the loss of their citizenship and has caused demographic changes, like the one witnessed in Kashmir.
And who has carried out such “reviling†and “revolting†campaigns? It is best left unsaid…
But, despite one hundred years of sustained “atrocities†(euphemistically called “anti-caste†movements, which actually made “caste†the basis of governmental functioning), there is no evidence that “an iron pin, ten inches long†has been thrust into the mouths of any “low born manâ€!!!
The “manusmriti†was supposedly compiled several centuries ago. It would be interesting to know as how many cases since then have been recorded of “an iron pin, ten inches long†having been thrust into the mouths of the so-called “low born†men!
Now let us come to the issue of an “iron pin, ten inches longâ€. Is such a pin available in the market? Yes, we have seen iron pins one to two inches long, but ten inches? Probably, it would have to be specifically manufactured!!!
Interestingly, the thickness of the “pin†is not mentioned! For that we surely “manu†would have to be reborn!!! Whether manu meant a chapathi-rolling pin we do not know! Since, the thickness of the “pin” was not known, that is why no pin was ever thrust into the mouths of any “low born men”!!!
Now let us consider the quotation itself “…If a (low-born man) mentions the name or caste of a superior revilingly, an iron pin, ten inches long, shall be thrust into his mouth (red hot).â€
The “red hot†portion is added as an afterthought, that too in brackets! Probably, manu wrote it that way!!!
The quotation actually conveys the impression that “an iron pin, ten inches long†should be thrust when the mouth is “red hotâ€!!! Probably, pre-heating is required and since the concept of pre-heating did not exist then, probably, the ten inch pin of indeterminate thickness was never thrust into the mouths of any person!!!
Like there are not enough places where similar debates are up….
I am a brahmin…got many non-brhmn frnds…we all have fun…to be open or not to be is their wish….so….
U smile… i smile…
U laugh… i wudnt care…
U agnostic… dosnt bother me…
U insult my chaste… Brother you know where you stand…!
Please lets end these kind of discussions sometime sooner….
@ Koushik: Trust me…I (and I hope readers of this blog) would have no interest in extending this discussion(s) – if I/we did not believe that hopefully, along the way, a path will emerge for reconciliation…(pl. see the first few lines of the post).
But the first step in resolution of any issue is to begin a dialogue, isn’t it? What good will be served by pretending there is no problem?
***
All: Pl. have a look at this thought-provoking essay on parallels between anti-Brahminism and anti-Semitism” by Jacob De Roover.
There indeed is clear parallel between anti-semitism and anti-brahminism. Just as anti-semitism grew to genocidal proportions during WWII with the West looking upon unconcerned, a similar kind of situation is gradually building up with the collaboration of casteist gangs, politicians, the media and many others. The worst thing about Indian situation is that “Indian Jews” are openly collaborating with Indian Nazis to wipe out fellow jews.
ToI report (Oct ’09): “The last two-decades have witnessed bloody conflicts in several parts of caste-sensitive southern region of Tamil Nadu where Dalits are disallowed from entering many temples or participating in chariot festivals.”
A tidbit from an interesting articleA ‘shot’ of confidence to dalits:
DH: Have you encountered political resistance?
SM: We have met with some but that is mostly uneventful. Irony is that when we started we thought Brahmins would oppose us but that did not happen.
re brahmins and brahminism, i recommend you read Cho’Ramasamy’s books – unfortunatley it is in Tamil though many have requested him to translate into English. hope soon it will be available; it was certainly un eye opener for me. rgds
*** NOTE by MODERATOR ***
Pl don’t copy and paste yr comments from elsewhere.
You’ve alrdy made yr point here (@ comment #83)
Excerpts from ‘Dalits themselves will get their history back’ by Kim Arora, TNN | Aug 28, 2012:
Tamil academic S Palaniappan has authored a research paper titled, “On The Unintended Influence of Jainism on the development of caste In post-classical Tamil society.” The paper argues, examining evidence from the Sangam period from the point of view of linguistic evolution and philology, that the ancestors of the people today called Tamil Dalits were priests, warriors and bards, respected in the society of the time. The 2008 paper offers arguments that go against the narrative of popular historians like George Hart who have written about the same period of Tamil history.
…
Was there a bias against those identified as ilipirappinon?
Within the indigenous Tamils, they were looked up to. It is an external religion making a value judgment on the indigenous religion. But they did not have the numbers to influence things and make a legal injunction. Jain philosophy has no concept of pollution or discrimination. Their view is that one’s status is based on one’s conduct.
…
..Nobody is to blame for Dravidian linguistic phenomenon. The early Brahmins in Tamil Nadu didn’t discriminate. There is a classical Tamil Sangam poem that mentions bards going into a Brahmin’s house and the lady of the house preparing them a special meal. It was a very different society with very different values. What scholars have done is extrapolated and projected contemporary values in early Tamil society.
Can you give an example of this kind of a projection?
Besides ilipirappinon, there is another word associated with “lower” castes – izhicinan. Everybody has been interpreting for a thousand years. Izhi means “low” but grammatically it is impossible to derive izhicinan from izhi. Tamil scholars always derive it from izhi. But grammatically, for this word to be derived from izhi, something else has to happen here. If this suffix, “cin” has to appear in a word, it has to take a past participle form, for which you have to have “int” – in between. So, izhinticinan is the word.
The actual root from which it is derived is “izhicu”, which means to smear or rub. In south India we have these drums, where the drummer has to rub it with a stick and it emits a humming sound. Izhuku is a word for rubbing. I think a linguistic change occurred. On conjugation, it changes into izhukinan. In Dravidian linguisitcs, when you have a vowel modifying the consonant, the k changes into c – while speaking. So it changes into izhucinan, which over time changed to izhicinan.
There is a bhakti song where izhuci and izhici, both occur as variants in different manuscripts. The song describes a Vishnu deity in a temple and how it is smeared with sandal. It means the same thing. So it shows that this process has occurred, and the “U” changed into an “I”.
Placing this link here for the record: Dravidian Movement-– The Origin
Dear All,
It may sound unbelievable. Actually the EVR movement was started as a lawless rowdy movement. Deriving the ideals from the then (useless) Justice Party, the terrorized the Brahmins not by thoughts but by deeds. They attacked physically and cut their sacred thread, broke the deities of Ganpati, and put Chappal Garland to Lord Ram. In that they tied to attracted the common mass, particularly socially underprivileged. If you listen some of the EVR’s speeches they are utterly disgusting. Looking at the people, he accused them that they are allowing their wives and daughters to sleep with Brahmins. Likewise, he sowed the seed of hatred against Brahmins. Gnana. Rajasekaran’s (director of Periyar film) is simply not acceptable because they are not true. Periyar was an old fool with no moral values. In the name of reform and social justice what he did is spreading the rowdyism across Tamil Nadu. Later stage, his disciples C. N. Annadurai and Karunanidhi (former CMs of Tamil Nadu) took his objectionable principles and trying to glorified it. But now, the Dravidian Movement is practically dead. So, discussing again we should resurrect those bastards. Because they are dangerous, dirtiest and nauseating.
W.r.t drsurya’s comments:
1. “The anti Brahminism in Tamilnadu dates back to 1950sâ€
Wrong.
“ The Justice Party, officially the South Indian Liberal Federation, was a political party in the Madras Presidency of British India. It was established in 1917 by T. M. Nair and P. Theagaraya Chetty as a result of a series of non-Brahmin conferences and meetings in the presidency. Communal division between Brahmins and non-Brahmins began in the presidency during the late-19th and early-20th century, mainly due to caste prejudices and disproportionate Brahminical representation in government jobs.â€
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice_Party_%28India%29
2. “The violent Anti Brahmin protests in 70s spear headed by Karunanidhi is worse than the Gujarat riots of today. The media was terrorized in not reporting what had happened. Brahmins were looted, abused, their hair forcibly tonsured and women raped and killed. Not a single case of FIR was booked. Some Brahmin preists were beaten to death inside temple premises.â€
I was living in Tamilnadu during the above period. Even TN BJP & RSS leaders will agree that the above was just an imagination or blown out of proportion. In fact , when Maniammai who became the leader of DK after Periyar EVR’s death, conducted ‘Ravanan Leela’ as a protest against ‘Ram leela’ in the north, TN Govt under M.Karunanidhi as CM, provided police protection to the famous Brahmin writer Deepam Na. Parathasarathy to beat Periyar EVR’s Photo with chappal in front of DK Head Quarters.
3. The vital differences in the different phases 1. Birth of Justice Party in 1917; 2) Self-Respect Movement in 1925; 3. DK from Justice Party in 1944 4. Birth of DMK 1949 – all just not taken into account.
4. In the first general elections in 1952, Congress failed to get majority in Tamil Nadu, while the group of parties, supported by Periyar EVR in favour of separating ‘Dravida Nadu ‘ from India – won the majority . Rajaji induced few of the parties to defect & support Congress, & Rajaji, became TN CM, by indulging in defection in Independent India.
An objective assessment , with no room for emotions, alone can help to understand the social dynamics of TN , to rescue TN from all kinds of damages.