No to Nokia, Yes to Ash-Abhi…!
Manoj pointed me to these two links that neatly sum up Pakistan’s schizophrenia with regards India:
1] Pak says no to Chennai-made (Nokia) phones: “The three to four authorised distributors of Nokia in Pakistan have offered their regrets to Nokia as they think that consumers will give a cold response to the Indian product…”…Not just that but “The (Pakistan) government had not allowed the entry of Indian made mobile phone sets in Pakistan and it may not allow the same in future, the newspaper said…”
2] Ash-Abhishek wedding catches imagination of Pakistanis: “The Aishwarya-Abhishek Bachchan “dream wedding” made waves in Bollywood crazy Pakistan with the media here going on a feeding frenzy over the event.
The wedding in Big B’s household remained a top story for several days on Pakistani TV channels like Geo and ARY which deployed special staff to anchor “exclusive” features highlighting various events of the wedding…
The print media splashed the story on the front pages today, with photographs and details of the marriage….Bollywood has a large fan following in Pakistan even though the movies are banned in theatres.” ( – See this post for reference)
Thanks Manoj.
pakistan and pakistanis in general suffer from serious inferiority complexes( all the more when it comes to any thing regarding India).
We are their pet hate objects.
They being obssessed with Aishwaryas wedding and turning around and refusing to buy Chennai made Nokia handsets show how metally and morally beleagured they are.
Dr Surya, I think Indians return – or as the larger nation, from which Pakistan was carved out, should that be reflect – the same attitudes quite well too. So we are hardly in a position to criticise them.
What is amazing is that freed of being located in SE Asia, Indians and Pakistanis in the UK and the US, become friends discussing all sorts of things, enjoying the same food, watching the same pictures etc. It begs the question what it is in India and Pakistan – the media, the fact of being located next to each other, something else – that makes for this mutual dislike.
As for the Nokia and Ash-Abhi, I think it should be celebrated that they prefer the latter, and shun the former. It reflects how politicians who decide on policy matters of economic significance have a completely different view of India than the common public who seeks ordinary things like flight-of-fantasy cinema. When the common man is like this, there is still hope and perhaps we should find it in ourselves too.
I would recommend a wonderful non-fiction book ‘Husband of a fanatic’ by Amitava Kumar, an Indian chap, who is a Professor of English in Vassar College. He is married to a poet, whose grew up in Canada with parents from Pakistan.
If read with quiet reflection, the book evokes powerful visceral reactions. It is a bold venture by an author who had access to both sides of the borders, and one which summarily will demonstrates how this hatred is a carefully manufactured and manipulated political campaign, and how ordinary people on both sides, failing to realise this, regularly are the victims of the ploy.
Sorry – errors: should be ‘who grew up’; one of ‘will demonstrate’ or ‘demonstrates’ will do;
Dr. Surya, Iagree with you.
I came across many Pakistanis, and I found the same what you have observed-they are suffering from Inferiority complex. Not only in case of India, overall their generation is backward and have not evolved. I mean limited brain usage or evolution. No doubt init. Than only they can hold such grudges against their neighbour country. We gave them so much still they want more( not stisfied soul) that shows they are less human and more….kind of “dadagiri”
I am sorry if this message may offend anyone out there. But I am commited to speak truth.
Shefaly-I too agree with you. But as per what I have witnessed, it is there need of support in third country which brings us together. Actually they feel good about their friendship with Indians. They knows very well that we are developed, and not underdeveloped like them. And they get pleasure out of it- by keeping frienship with people from India.
I had one friend who was very loyal, liked Indian cinema and what not. Above all he/she was good enough to trust. And they will trust me over pakistani at time of need. That made me feel good. But they will never leave a chance to grab our attention for kind of crimes going in India. They will watch some news on Indian channels( they are fond of indian shows, that we all know) and when they meet they will talk about what bad is happeneing in India as if Pakistan is heaven and a country of without crime. But being a good human and friend I will accept and say “yes this is not good”. But not a single time they will point finger towards them. That was strange surprise to me. They are not in a habit of retrospect, that is for sure. They will find fault in others but not in them. That is what they are built of and reason for their underdevelopment. They satisfy their self for the bad deeds of their country by pointing fingers towards other countries.
Great job done for making people of India aware of what is happening next door
DrSurya, Shefaly, Indian, Pramod: Thanks for your comments.
Indian: I agree with your observation that Pakistanis come across as far more “patriotic” and “nationalistic” than Indians (generally speaking).
Shefaly: Thanks for the book recommendation. I will try and see if I can find a copy.
I would just mention one thing in your otherwise excellent comment:
The hatred that you mention (and which can be seen in the eyes of assorted ISI generals) is not entirely the result of “a carefully manufactured and manipulated political campaign”.
There is a lot of painful history and recent scars…and when you add to that, an intolerant interpretation of a particular ideology or religion, you have a very volatile mix…and then there is Kashmir…but thats a separate post (or more accurately several posts) in itself.
Have a look at these two articles, when you have some time:
http://hindudharma.wordpress.com/2006/01/28/india-pakistan-lessons-from-the-ruins-i/
and
http://hindudharma.wordpress.com/2006/01/28/india-pakistan-lessons-from-the-ruins-ii/
My experience is a bit different from Shefaly’s with respect to Indians and Pakistanis being friends once outside SE Asia. The Indian people around me share the same feelings for Pakistan as they did when they were in India-of distrust and unacceptance.
I think there is more to it than meets the eye and these article depicts the reality of the peace process where both the films and the phones are banned only because they are MADE IN INDIA.
..also India is a bit more welcoming whether it is a case of Pakisatanis artists (all over Indian cinema) or students coming to India, so not sure if we return the same attitude.
Living outside India and working in the middle east I meet many pakis on a day in day out basis. Shefaly might be right about her assessment of US based pakis. However the pakis in middle east arent very well educated and skilled. And the ground reality is for every 2 pakis there are 10 Indians be it shop keepers or petrol pump attendants or top notch software professionals. In every sphere they are outnumbered and feel threatened.
In this milieu, I have seen pakis pretend to be friendly if they exist in a minority. The moment they reach a stage where their number outgrows the number of Indians, they start their manipulation and rug pulling from under the feet. Basically this stems from intense dislike, distrust and inferiority complexes. Added to this is their malignant anti Hindu feeling.
Whats more comical is the attitude of Indian muslims who work in a pakistani dominated work atmosphere. They cant stop rubbishing Narendra Modi, 20 times a day, cant stop praising Javed Miandads last ball sixer which defetaed India in sharjah several years ago and how they lick the aboral ends of pakis and wallow in self pity about the so called sad(?) state of the indian muslim in india.
Once shefaly meets such pakis and such infantile indian muslims she wud change her stand on their mental maturity.
Dr Surya and Indian: Thanks for your notes. First pass, may I suggest that the use of the word ‘Paki’ to describe Pakistanis is as offensive in the modern day as using ‘Negro’ to describe a person of African descent? If we remember all the noise from Jade Goody describing Shilpa Shetty as Shilpa Poppadum, we may not want to use such epithets ourselves. I consider ourselves as ‘guests’ on Shantanu’s blog and while I can not imagine Shantanu uses such terms himself, it is even more of an obligation for us to refrain from behaviour which makes him feel awkward.
Your notes both seem to assume that I am some kind of a naive child and that I have not met a range of people, only educated ‘sambhrant’ kinds who seem to fit my description. I am sorry to disappoint you but I have lived and worked in many different cultures and have met all sorts of + and – stereotypes of all kinds of nationalities, including in the UK, many Pakistanis.
However my primary instinct is to focus on what is positive and what is possible. There is no end to hatred but it does in the end destroy possibilities and accomplishes nothing. There is a place for forgiveness and hope in every relationship, and God knows how many times in life I have learnt that they help relieve the burden on our souls in a way that frees us up to achieve more.
Generalising for a whole nation based on a few 100 people we meet is never a clever idea. After all not all Gujaratis run motels not all Punjabis drive trucks; nor are all Bengalis trade-unionist communists; neither do I think all South Indians wear tripund and eat ‘saapad’ with sambar running down their elbows; nor are all Biharis and UP-ites ill-educated Bhaiyas (I am from UP and the Professor of English at Vassar, whose book I mentioned earlier, is from Bihar).
I agree with Shantanu that the reasons for our feelings are historic. But the continuing hatred is sustained through political manoeuvres. In the history of Pakistan, their most peaceful times have been under Martial Law when they are seen to be in control of the ‘war’ with India. What is that, if not politics? Why, when India is so keen on economic relationship with Pakistan, does the Govt turn a blind eye to mass-scale piracy of Bollywood films? What is this if not cherry-picking political battles?
India and Pakistan also collaborate in international politics when it suits them – for instance, to defend both countries’ right to bar anyone else from calling any long-grained rice Basmati except that rice which is grown in North India and Pakistan.
A forum like this cannot become a channel of hatred, I believe. A sense of proportion, critical reflection, identifying hard political realities are all pre-requisite first to understanding and then to addressing the ongoing war of feelings. That is my view and I will not let any negative experiences change my view that the smallest improvement starts with a small step. Which is what both nations need.
Well said Dr.Surya!!! I agree with your views and your observations. Pakistanis can never be friends to Indians as long as their agenda is Kashmir. My views on Pakis’ liking for bollywood is concerned then all Pakis know that their entertainment industry can’t provide them with decent entertainment. And as far as the florishing and increasingly popular Paki artists in Indian entertainment industry is concerned then I must say that no one can beat the generosity of Indians and Indian film industry who overlook the talent available in their own country and welcome people (be it comedians on comedy shows or rock bands or singers shooting and releasing their music in India or the actors who by the way have zero acting skills) from across the border. & one example is Adnan Sami who never went back and seems to have settled in Mumbai forever.
Manoj, DrSurya, Shefaly and Kanchan: As always, thanks for contributing to the discussion.
My first comment (with regards the point made by Shefaly) is: “Atithi Devo Bhava”**…All of you are truly “Atithis” on this blog and I respect you as such.
Second: I am a strong believer in (and defender of) free speech…what is offensive to one may not be to the other (and vice-versa).
As you may have noticed, unlike some other blogs, I do not believe in moderating comments expressed by readers here…This is a public forum and people have a choice to be here (and at the same time, a choice to say what they wish).
I will draw the line at outright abuse and/or vulgarity and/or slander though…
Third: Although personally I am not very comfortable with the term “Paki”, there are many commentators and writes who use (or have used) the term in their writings (see e.g. this article by Koenraad Elst)
I am not sure it crosses the line that I have in my mind about what is OK on a blog and what is not…and as my disclaimer clearly says, I claim no authorship (or editing rights) on comments – they are purely personal opinions by readers and in the interest of free speech, I will give everyone a fair bit of leeway.
Hope this settles the matter – I think we should re-focus the discussion on what generates the schizophrenia that I mentioned in my post.
Thanks.
** From the Taitiriya Upanishad: “The (unexpected) one who comes to you (to be served) is to be considered as God”
P.S. Oddly, the Government of India’s travel website (Incredible India) manages to talk at length about “Atithi Devo Bhava” without once mentioning the word “Sanskrit ” or detailing the origin (and meaning) of the phrase.
Are we ashamed of Sanskrit or is this another example of pseduo-secularism?
P.P.S. Here is a good site mentioning some of the more well known verses from the Upanishads.
To Shefaly
I kindly request you to read my comment carefully. Where did I used word “Paki”? Plus I already used the term “I too agree with you” and what I said is “as per what I have witnessed”. No where I said you are wrong or naive. I am sorry for that if you have felt that way. I too said in my comment “I am sorry if this message may offend anyone out there. But I am commited to speak truth” for all readers out there. I jsut wanted to share what is happening around us.
Everyone opinion counts, I think so! as we all have gone through different experiences. Opinion of someone who have witnessed the terrorism and someone who have heard of terrorism will be different. There is no question of naiveness or refrain from speaking and telling truth. Please dont make us feel that we are doing big crime just only by expressing our experiences and opinion.
Plus, I too agree with you, spreading of love, positiveness, it definitely relieve us from burden. But big question in front of us is- Do they need this? Truth always hurts, but cannot be altered because it hurts, that is what I believe.
Shantanu- If you feel that our comments are offending and spreading hatered please you can remove that and this comment too if you think I have offended in any way someone on your blog.
Indian: I apologise. I intended to acknowledge your comment and reply to Dr Surya’s but somehow I did not separate the two. I hope that clarifies. Thanks.
Shefaly,
My intention was not to sound racist but if I had hurt your feelings Im sorry that wasnt my intention.
However I personally dont think calling a pakistani – a paki is racist. How else to you call a pakistani? We do use the word paki in casual Hindi also. I do know in Shilpa Shettys case she was called a paki and it generated media heat. But why should we listen to what brit or american media thinks is racist or not??
Havent we been using the word paki for years now?
A pakistani will be called paki and many arabs call Indians as Indie… why read offence when theres none?
I do understand we are all guests of Shantanu and Im very sorry if by using the word paki I have wounded his feelings or degarded his blog. I managed to read several thought provoking articles and met several smart people on this site ( Shefaly inclusive) and for this Im really thankful to Shantanu.
Having said this I dont think I would stop calling a pakistani a paki because Shefaly thinks its racist and she feels it might degrade Shantanus Blog.
If my comments are so offensive I might stay away from commenting if that would make Shefaly happy.
Finally Shantanu Im sorry the topic totally got hijacked, inspite of what Shefaly thinks its my humble opinion that much of the so called animosity between Indians and pakis is becos of the inferiority complex of pakis and their education curriculum, their doctored history books and stuff.
No point in speaking Gandhian values and saying lets focus on the good and ignore the bad. As a medical practitioner the dictum is when you see a pathogen you kill it, you dont discuss Gandhian values.
If at all India has suffered immense harm for the past 60 years its becos of our pseudo secularism and stupid fixation on defunct gandhian values.
I know I have stirred a pandoras box and have made uncharitable comments on your blog but trust me I have high regards for you and I salute your work. Belittling your effort wasnt my intention but like how Shefaly doesnt like me assuming about her I dont like people lecturing me on whats racist and what isnt and how to be benevelont to a terrorist race.
DrSurya,
I know you a loyal reader and I have no doubt about your intentions or about your commitment towards building our country….I also hold Shefaly in high esteem (and I can say the same things about her).
I think she was expressing a point of view. As I mentioned above, this blog is meant to promote discussion and debate…we do not always have to agree on everything…sometimes it is OK to “agree to disagree”.
With that, I propose we close this aspect of discussion…unless I have said something wrong or mis-interepreted anything.