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	<title>&#124;&#124; Satyameva Jayate &#124;&#124; &#187; Distortions, Misrepresentation about Hinduism</title>
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		<title>On Yoga, Tantra &amp; Distortion of Ancient Indian Traditions..</title>
		<link>http://satyameva-jayate.org/2012/03/02/yoga-tantra-sex/</link>
		<comments>http://satyameva-jayate.org/2012/03/02/yoga-tantra-sex/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Mar 2012 09:56:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>B Shantanu</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Distortions, Misrepresentation about Hinduism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Hindu Dharma]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Khajuraho]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Spirituality & Philosophy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Harmful Effects of Yoga]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[Tantric Cults]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Tantric Yoga]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[Yoga and Sex]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[At least some of you must have read an extraordinary piece in the New York Times earlier this week provocatively titled, Yoga and Sex Scandals: No Surprise Here. In that piece, William Broad made a number of assertions &#8211; some misleading, some just plain wrong including the remarkable assertion that &#8220;(Yoga) began as a sex cult&#8220;(sic)!  Thankfully, rebuttals were quick and fast in coming..Most of them highlighted Mr Broad&#8217;s false premise and his apparent ignorance about the origins of Yoga, its spiritual aspects as well as the tradition of Tantra. ...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At least some of you must have read an extraordinary piece in the New York Times earlier this week provocatively titled, <strong><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/28/health/nutrition/yoga-fans-sexual-flames-and-predictably-plenty-of-scandal.html" target="_blank">Yoga and Sex Scandals: No Surprise Here</a></strong>. In that piece, William Broad made a number of assertions &#8211; some misleading, some just plain wrong including the remarkable assertion that <strong><em>&#8220;(Yoga) began as a sex cult</em></strong>&#8220;(sic)!  Thankfully, rebuttals were quick and fast in coming..Most of them highlighted Mr Broad&#8217;s false premise and his apparent ignorance about the origins of Yoga, its spiritual aspects as well as the tradition of Tantra. Below, <strong>excerpts from three of the best rebuttals</strong> that I have read (so far) on this matter. I have not come across any rebuttal from the established scholars of Hinduism and Yoga yet but hopefully we will see something in the weeks to come. Please note that emphasis has been added in these excerpts. Read on..</p>
<p style="text-align: center;">*** <strong>Excerpts</strong> from &#8220;<strong><a href="http://www.elephantjournal.com/2012/02/sex-and-yoga-again-a-broad-and-distorted-view-of-yoga-history/" target="_blank">Sex &amp; Yoga (Again!): A Broad, Distorted View of Yoga History</a></strong> by <strong>Ramesh Bjonneson</strong> ***</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">&#8230;It is a fact that Tantra, and thus yoga, has historically and accurately been linked to sexual rites and practices. But <strong>it is not correct</strong>, as science writer for The New York Times William J. Broad recently claimed in an <a href="http://http//www.nytimes.com/2012/02/28/health/nutrition/yoga-fans-sexual-flames-and-predictably-plenty-of-scandal.html?_r=2&amp;hpw" target="_blank">article</a>, <strong>that yoga “began as a sex cult.</strong>”</p>
<p>..So, what’s the distorted science behind Mr. Broad’s sweepingly broad distortion of truth and thus of yogic history? His logic goes something like this: <a href="http://www.elephantjournal.com/2012/02/sex-bliss-tantra-and-the-anusara-revolution/" target="_blank">we know that Tantra has something to do with sex</a>. We also know that all Tantric yogis have vaginas and penises. Therefore, all Tantric yoga was originally about sex and all yoga started out as a sex cult. That’s not science, Mr. Broad. Rather that’s avery broad distortion of science.</p>
<p>&#8230;And here’s the part of the article which uses the wildly distorted logic to spread his half-truths:</p>
<blockquote><p>Hatha yoga—the parent of the styles now practiced around the globe—began as a branch of Tantra. In medieval India, Tantra devoteessought to fuse the male and female aspects of the cosmos into a blissful state of consciousness. The rites of Tantric cults, while oftensteeped in symbolism, could also include group and individual sex. One text advised devotees to revere the female sex organ and enjoy vigorous intercourse. Candidates for worship included actresses and prostitutes, as well as the sisters of practitioners.</p></blockquote>
<p>In other words, <strong>the logic goes something like this: because-guns-kill-people-therefore-all-gun-owners-are-killers or  because-tantric-yogis-have-sex-therefore-yoga-started-as-a-sex-cult!</strong> Is that science, Mr. Pulitzer Prize winner? Nope. <strong>That is junk science. And in logic and rhetoric, we call this a fallacy. A myth. A misleading notion. An erroneous belief. Everything but science</strong>.</p>
<p>But since these historical falsehoods are written in The New York Times by an esteemed science writer and also the author of the new book &#8220;Science of Yoga&#8221;, these “facts” will be believed by millions and thus distorted forever more by its liberal and rational readers who, like most humans, are prone to distortions and sensationalism. Especially when “the facts” are in print. Indeed, that’s the power of “news that’s fit to print”, as the New York Times motto states.</p>
<p>William J. Broad proclaimed on Fresh Air with Terry Gross that he had spent five years researching yoga for his popular book. Perhaps heread all the wrong books? Perhaps he got so fascinated with that <a href="http://www.elephantjournal.com/2012/02/the-eros-of-yoga/" target="_blank">small percentage of Tantra that’s truly about sex</a> that he got all bent out of intellectual shape? Then again, perhaps not. Perhaps he simply had an agenda, and he simply used his research to fit that agenda?</p>
<p>&#8230;I think Mr. Broad also has been a shallow student of everything yogic and Tantric. Because, if he had indeed taken thetime to do his research properly, and, even better, interviewed people who actually practice Tantra, then he would have learned something entirely different. He would, for example, have learned—as in Buddhism, where yogis also (surprise) sometimes have sex—that Tantra is as vast a subject and a tradition as Buddhism, with an even longer history. Indeed, scholars and practitioners often speak of Hindu and Buddhist Tantra todescribe two vast historical and cultural strands of Tantra as two giant trees covering a vast array of branches and schools.</p>
<p>Most importantly, <strong>Mr. Broad would have learned that neither of these traditions in Buddhism and Hinduism are considered cults of sex, neither by scholars nor by the broad majority of its practitioners.</strong> He would also have learned that Tantra is actually older than both Buddhism and Hinduism. Yes, the Pulitzer Prize winning science writer obviously missed this widely acknowledged part of yoga history.</p>
<p>In other words, just because it is widely accepted that the Buddhist guru Chogyam Trungpa had sex with some of his female followers,Buddhism is hardly a sex cult, is it Mr. Broad? And even more relevantly, just because there are known Tantric rites involving sex, the vast majority of Tantric practices, just like life itself, are not related to sexual practice.  Esteemed yoga scholar Georg Feuerstein, whom Mr. Broad should have studied better, estimates that only about 5 percent of Tantra involved sexual practices. <strong>Moreover, Hatha Yoga, which Mr. Broad rightly claim was developed by Tantric yogis was not, however, primarily a sexual practice “involving poses, deep breathing and stimulating acts” as indicated in his New York Times article</strong>.</p>
<p>&#8230;As mentioned in George Feuerstein’s book, Tantra: The Path of Ecstasy, it is widely acknowledged among pundits and yogis in India that there are <a href="http://http//www.elephantjournal.com/2011/08/3-ways-to-view-the-ancient-history-of-yoga/" target="_blank">two streams of Indian wisdom traditions, namely the Vedic and the Tantric</a>. It is hotly debated which of these is oldest and if both are indigenous to India, but there is vast agreement that Tantra has contributed the most to what we today know as the practices ofyoga. In other words, all practices related to meditation, yoga postures, breathing exercises, kundalini awakening, chakras, mantras, etc., are all considered Tantric.</p>
<p>In addition, Tantra is generally divided into three distinct branches, of which only one engaged in ritualized sexual practices. Why? Simply because sex is considered a natural part of life in Tantra (no big sensationalist surprise there!), and thus it did not require special techniques, but rather what was required was awareness—sacred awareness, which is what Tantra really is all about, the transformation of consciousness, the cultivation of spiritual awareness in everything we do, without suppressing or neglecting the body’s gifts and needs. That’s why some aptly call Tantra “the yoga of everything.”</p>
<p>..<strong> Tantra is a rather vast universe of traditions, practices and schools of thought.</strong> But William J. Broad obviously missed or, perhaps,rather got lost in this vast universe we call Tantra or Yoga. I am not surprised. Too much sex on your mind can certainly lead people ofinfluence, especially men, astray.</p>
<p>&#8230;In the rest of the article, Mr. Broad rehashes some of the sordid allegations of illicit sex by famous yoga teachers and self-proclaimed gurus..Even though Mr. Broad seem to think there is an important connection here, the problem with sex in yoga has actually very little to dowith sex in Tantra. Illicit sex is a human problem. Illicit sex by people in power—be they politicians, teachers, corporate leaders, priests, or self-proclaimed gurus—is largely an emotionally-starved-male-in-power problem. That, and not Tantra, is broadly the real issue, Mr.Science.</p>
<p style="text-align: center;">*** End of Excerpts ***</p>
<p>Do read the article <a href="http://www.elephantjournal.com/2012/02/sex-and-yoga-again-a-broad-and-distorted-view-of-yoga-history/  " target="_blank">in full</a>..and don&#8217;t miss the comments section. Next, some excerpts from an informal rebuttal exposing the factual errors (in <strong><span style="color: #0000ff;"><em>blue font, italics</em></span>)</strong>in Broad&#8217;s piece (again, emphasis added)&#8230;</p>
<p style="text-align: center;">*** <strong>Christopher Wallis</strong> on <strong>&#8220;<a href="http://www.flowyogamagazine.com/2012/02/27/christopher-wallis-addresses-factual-errors-in-ny-times-article-yoga-and-sex-scandals/  " target="_blank">Factual Errors” in NY Times Article</a></strong> &#8211; Excerpts ***</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">1.) “<strong><span style="color: #0000ff;"><em>Yoga teachers and how-to books seldom mention that the discipline began as a sex cult…</em></span></strong>” Hardly. Mr. Broad is simply displaying his ignorance here. In fact, <strong>yoga as we know it began as an internalized ritual practice of activating sacred powers in the body through mantra, mudrā, and visualization</strong>, as has been shown by Christopher Tompkins and others.<strong> There was no sexual component</strong> (though that later development in some streams of the tradition, <strong>it was never central to the practice</strong>)</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">2.) “<strong><span style="color: #0000ff;"><em>Hatha yoga — the parent of the styles now practiced around the globe — began as a branch of Tantra.</em>”</span></strong> Not quite. <strong>Hatha-yoga never was a branch of Tantra; it was a discipline that drew on inspiration from the Tantrik scriptures.</strong> It is true that there were some sexual practices in mainstream Hatha-yoga (e.g. vajrolī mudrā) which were NOT found in any tantras.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">‎3.) “<strong><span style="color: #0000ff;"><em>In medieval India, Tantra devotees sought to fuse the male and female aspects of the cosmos into a blissful state of consciousness.</em></span></strong>” <strong>No, devotees sought to realization that those aspects (Shiva and Shakti, i.e. spaciousness and energy) were always already fused, in fact expressions of each other</strong>. Insight into this truth does give rise to ānanda (bliss) as a by-product, but ānanda was/is not the goal — insight or true seeing is the goal.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">‎4.) “<em><strong><span style="color: #0000ff;">The rites of Tantric cults, while often steeped in symbolism, could also include group and individual sex</span></strong>.</em>” <strong>This statement is highly misleading because it implies that sexual practice was part of the Tantrik mainstream. It was not</strong>. Sexual practice (couple and group) was an infrequently performed rite of relatively fringe Tantrik groups, and in those rites, sexual pleasure was NEVER described as the goal. Intensified awareness was the goal, and the rite is said to be forbidden to those performing it out of physical lust.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">5.) “<em><span style="color: #0000ff;"><strong>One text advised devotees to revere the female sex organ and enjoy vigorous intercourse</strong></span>.</em>” <strong>I can think of two texts which might be construed in this way, but unless Mr. Broad can read Sanskrit, I doubt he consulted them. Because he did not consult the original source (he cites NO sources in this piece), he is obviously unaware that in the Brahma-yāmala, the practice in question is aimed not at “enjoying” intercourse, but rather indefinitely postponing orgasm in order to gain supernatural powers. In the other text (Tantrāloka 29), the purpose of the practice is the cultivation of meditative awareness, not physical pleasure</strong>. (I’m just telling you how the tradition represents itself.)</p>
<p>6.) “<em><span style="color: #0000ff;"><strong>[Hatha yoga] used poses, deep breathing and stimulating acts — including intercourse — to hasten rapturous bliss</strong></span>.</em>” <strong>Bliss was not the goal of hatha-yoga either. Freedom and release from suffering (moksha) was explicitly stated as the goal.</strong> Intercourse, when performed as a hatha-yoga practice, did NOT involve orgasm, which is obviously pleasurable, so…</p>
<p>7.) “<strong><span style="color: #0000ff;"><em>In time, Tantra and Hatha developed bad reputations. The main charge was that practitioners indulged in sexual debauchery under the pretext of spirituality</em></span>.” Incorrect!</strong> My god, doesn’t anyone do RESEARCH anymore? <strong>They did develop bad reputations for two different reasons: Tantra become associated with rites of black magic in the popular imagination, and Hatha-yoga was given a bad name by India’s British rulers because of the prevalence of Hatha-yogis who were warriors who resisted the British</strong> (see Mark Singleton’s work for this). Of course, there were occasionally charges in premodern India that some people used the Tantrik teachings as an excuse to get drunk and fornicate, because of course that did happen, cause that kind of thing will always happen (I discuss this in my book, Tantra Illuminated). But the fact that the teachings were sometimes misused in that way doesn’t change the fact that that was not the original intent of the teachings! Does the misuse of Jesus’ teaching to justify things he didn’t condone make him a fraud? Hardly.</p>
<p>8.) “<span style="color: #0000ff;"><em><strong>Early in the 20th century, the founders of modern yoga worked hard to remove the Tantric stain. They devised a sanitized discipline that played down the old eroticism for a new emphasis on health and fitness.</strong></em></span>” Well, this part is true.</p>
<p>9.) <strong>The Goraksha-śataka, a source text on hatha-yoga, says that one is only successful in practice if he is moderate and restrained in eating and sexual behavior, and totally dedicated to his yoga. (verse 54) This is a SOURCE text. Doesn’t sound like a “sex cult” to me. </strong></p>
<p style="text-align: center;"><strong>*** End of Excerpts ***</strong></p>
<p style="text-align: center;"><a style="text-align: left;" href="http://satyameva-jayate.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Yoga-Sex-Scandal-Broad.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-13699" title="Yoga Sex Scandal Broad" src="http://satyameva-jayate.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Yoga-Sex-Scandal-Broad.jpg" alt="" width="96" height="80" /></a></p>
<p style="text-align: left;"><span style="text-align: left;">The third</span><strong style="text-align: left;"> excerpt</strong><span style="text-align: left;"> &#8211; from </span><strong style="text-align: left;"><a href="http://theluminescent.blogspot.com/2012/03/getting-history-right-yoga-in-new-york.html" target="_blank">an article by Jason Birch</a></strong><span style="text-align: left;">, goes deeper into the history of Tantra (once again, emphasis has been added)..Read on..</span></p>
<p style="text-align: center;">*** <strong>Excerpts</strong>: &#8220;<strong>Getting the History Right &#8211; Yoga in the New York Times&#8221;</strong> by <strong>Jason Birch</strong> ***</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">Williams Broad&#8217;s recent article&#8230;contains historical inaccuracies which undermine his argument and integrity.  He <strong>claims that Haṭhayoga &#8220;began as a sex cult&#8221;.  This bizarre statement is based on his mistaken belief that the sexual practices of Tantra were adopted by Haṭhayoga,</strong> and these practices included the postures and breathing exercises which have become central to modern yoga.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">&#8230;Much of the terminology in the early Haṭha texts derived from Tantra, but two great innovations had occurred.  Firstly, Haṭhayoga had discarded the complex metaphysics, doctrine and ritual system of Tantra.  This included any transgressive practices of consuming meat, alcohol and ritualized sex.  And secondly, the focus of Haṭhayoga was almost entirely on the practice of yoga rather than other methods of liberation&#8230;</p>
<p style="text-align: left;"><strong>&#8230;Broad’s comments imply that sex was central to Tantra’s ritual practice</strong>.  This is not true.  <strong>Ritualized sex was not practiced by all Tantric sects and, when it was practiced, it was but one component in a complex ritual system</strong>, which was built on the use of mantras, visualisation, mandalas, mudrās, contemplation, worshiping a deity, making offerings into a fire, etc.  The rich diversity of this religion is lost in Broad&#8217;s comments and I would encourage anyone who is curious about Tantra to read <a href="http://alexissanderson.com/aboutus.aspx" target="_blank">Alexis Sanderson’s articles</a>, which include the textual, epigraphical and archaeological evidence behind his statements.   <strong></strong></p>
<p style="text-align: left;">The only sexual practice described in some of the above-mentioned Haṭha texts is Vajrolīmudrā, in which the male Yogin absorbs, via his urethra, a mixture of his semen and a female yoga practitioner&#8217;s sexual fluids.  The aim of this practice was not &#8220;rapturous bliss&#8221; but the retention of sexual fluids, which was believed to bring about greater strength, a longer life, a pleasant smell to the body and freedom from disease.  These benefits could also be achieved through chastity and other mudrās, so Vajrolīmudrā was not central to Haṭhayoga and half of the aforementioned texts omit it.</p>
<p><strong>Far from describing the practices of a sex cult, Haṭhayoga texts generally advise male yogins not to associate with women.</strong> After all, Haṭhayoga was usually practiced alone in an isolated place&#8230; Contrary to Broad&#8217;s claim, I know of not one instance in a Haṭha text where a posture or breathing exercise is said to bring about sexual arousal.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">&#8230;<strong>The underlying flaw in Broad&#8217;s argument is that he presents no evidence, scientific or historical, that Haṭhayoga practices cause sexual arousal.</strong>&#8230;ne must wonder why Broad has attempted to link yoga techniques with sex scandals in the way that he has.  Some journalists do think that controversy benefits all and to this end are willing to ignore or cherry-pick the evidence and throw out the truth.</p>
<p style="text-align: center;">*** End of Excerpts ***</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">To round off, two final (brief) extracts&#8230;The first one is from <a href="http://healthland.time.com/2012/02/29/does-yoga-really-drive-people-wild-with-desire/" target="_blank">Does Yoga Really Drive People Wild with Desire?</a> by Maia Szalavitz:</p>
<blockquote>
<p style="text-align: left;">&#8230;the fact that yoga gurus from Woodstock’s Swami Satchidananda onward are frequently caught with their pants down probably says less about the practice than it does about men, women and power. While yoga might improve your libido, fortunately it’s not likely to make you uncontrollably driven to cheat. And when considering connections between behaviors like sexual impropriety and yoga — or associations between drugs and certain side effects or other reported outcomes — it’s important to remember that correlation isn’t necessarily cause.</p>
</blockquote>
<p style="text-align: left;">The second one from Sandip Roy, &#8220;<a href="http://www.firstpost.com/living/yogas-dirty-secret-its-all-about-tantric-sex-baby-229062.html " target="_blank">Yoga’s dirty secret: It’s all about Tantric sex, baby</a>&#8220;:</p>
<blockquote>
<p style="text-align: left;">When it comes to yoga, as the Hindu American Foundation, tirelessly repeats the crux of the problem is the way the West has reduced yoga, the spiritual practice, into yoga, the sequence of physical asanas. <a href="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2012/02/29/notes022912.DTL&amp;ao=all" target="_blank">Mark Morford, a columnist with the San Francisco Chronicle and a yoga teacher</a> reminds us, “<em>Yoga is a physical, spiritual, energetic, wildly interconnected practice that can transform every aspect of your world… Oh, and by the way? It also makes your genitals tingle nicely, too. Bonus, really</em>.”</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">Anyway just as yoga is about more than your bhujangasana, Tantra is about more than your perfect orgasm. All those Tantric sex workshops are based in as much wishful thinking as all the hair growth clinics and penis enlargement ads. Morford writes: “<em>I’ve been studying Shaiva Tantra myself for years now, most recently with one of the finest scholars in the business and we have yet to have a single wild orgy or virgin sacrifice. I know! Total rip-off!”</em></p>
</blockquote>
<p style="text-align: left;">Hopefully this helps set the record straight&#8230;<strong>Please do share</strong> widely&#8230;and do add any other links that you may have come across..Comments and thoughts welcome, as always&#8230;</p>
<p><strong>Related</strong> Post: <a href="http://satyameva-jayate.org/2010/11/30/take-back-yoga/" target="_blank">Take Back Yoga</a>. Also read: <a title="Permalink" href="http://satyameva-jayate.org/2009/11/22/2009/03/08/super-brain-yoga/">Super Brain Yoga – I want to trademark this!</a> and <a title="High-Tech�Pranayama" rel="bookmark" href="http://satyameva-jayate.org/2009/11/22/2007/10/06/high-tech-pranayama/">High-Tech Pranayama</a></p>
<p>Somewhat Related: <a href="http://satyameva-jayate.org/2009/10/29/puritanism-temples/">On Puritanism, Sex Addicts and Temples</a></p>
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		<title>On Cow Slaughter etc..</title>
		<link>http://satyameva-jayate.org/2012/02/08/cow-slaughter/</link>
		<comments>http://satyameva-jayate.org/2012/02/08/cow-slaughter/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 13:06:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>B Shantanu</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Debates & Discussions]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Distortions, Misrepresentation about Hinduism]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[Article 48]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[Beef]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Beef Eating]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Cow Slaughter]]></category>
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		<description><![CDATA[This post has been some time in coming &#8211; and I am penning my thoughts on something controversial after a long time. It was prompted by the recent decision of government of MP to increase the punishment for cow slaughter. As many of you would know, the issue of cow-slaughter is not a new one.  In fact, the demand for a ban on slaughter of cows is more than a century old – and was first raised in modern times by Swami Dayanand Saraswati and the Arya Samaj. It has ...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This post has been some time in coming &#8211; and I am penning my thoughts on <a href="http://satyameva-jayate.org/2009/07/21/ram-janmabhoomi-2/">something controversial after a long time</a>. It was prompted by the recent decision of government of MP to increase the punishment for cow slaughter. As many of you would know, <strong>the issue of cow-slaughter is not a new one</strong>.  In fact, the demand for a ban on slaughter of cows is more than a century old – and was first raised in modern times by Swami Dayanand Saraswati and the Arya Samaj. It has been suggested that the British inadvertently strengthened the &#8220;Cow Protection Movement&#8221; by decreeing that the cow is not a sacred animal and can be slaughtered. I have my doubts about this &#8220;theory&#8221; but here is the reference:</p>
<blockquote><p>In 1888, a high court in Allahabad ruled that cows are not “sacred” animals as defined in section 295 of the Indian Penal Code and Muslims could not be held accountable for slaughtering them. (1).</p></blockquote>
<p>There are accounts from colonial times of Muslims slaughtering cows during Bakr-Id festival although there is no religious decree to support cow slaughter (<em>In fact, the Supreme Court in Mohammad Hanif Qureshi Vs. State of Bihar in 1958 had held that the Muslims had no religious right to kill cows on Bakr-Id)</em>.  Although some argue that the cow was merely used as a symbol for mobilizing Hindu opinion by Arya Samaj and other leaders of the movement, the fact that it spread rapidly over large parts of India in a day and age where communication and travel was very difficult is indicative of the underlying strength of emotions towards this animal.</p>
<blockquote><p><strong>In the 1870s, cow protection movements spread rapidly in the Punjab, the North-West provinces, Awadh and Rohilkhand</strong>. Arya Samaj had a tremendous role in skillfully converting this sentiment into a national movement. <strong>The first Gaurakshini sabha (cow protection society) was established in the Punjab in 1882</strong>.(2) The movement spread rapidly all over North India and to Bengal,Bombay, Madras and other central provinces.</p></blockquote>
<p>It has been mentioned that</p>
<blockquote><p><strong>Signatures, up to 350,000 in some places, were collected to demand a ban on cow sacrifice</strong>.(3)</p></blockquote>
<p>The strong sentiment around cow-slaughter – and Mahatma Gandhi&#8217;s strong views on the matter &#8211; led to its inclusion in Constitution under Article 48 (Part IV; Directive Principles of State Policy) which states that: (the) <em>State shall preserve and improve the breeds and prohibit the slaughter of cows, calves and other cows and drought cattle. </em></p>
<p><em> </em>It has also been mentioned that when this issue was being debated in Parliament, many wanted a total ban on cow slaughter but this was opposed by Nehru and thus a compromise was reached by including it in terms of Directive Principles. I <a href="http://dahd.nic.in/ch1/chap1.htm#item21" target="_blank">do not have sufficient references</a> (also see #164) to back this up but hope to find links to debate/discussion in Constituent Assembly on this matter. However, it appears that during the debate in the Constituent Assembly at least some Muslim Members (Mr. Z.H. Lari and Syed Mohammad Saidulla?) were willing for cow slaughter prohibition to be kept as a Fundamental Right.  Regardless of the deliberations in Constituent Assembly &#8211; and since then &#8211; <strong>the cow continues to be an object of great reverence and is widely considered sacred – cutting across castes and regions in India</strong>.  <strong>Laws banning slaughter of cow and its progeny have been promulgated in almost all states in India</strong> except Paschim Banga, Kerala, Nagaland and Meghalaya (the latter two have a predominant Christian population). The ban on cow slaughter was in news last year too when the government of Karnataka passed a law that prohibiting the slaughter of buffaloes along with cow and its progeny (a law protecting the cow was already in force in Karnataka since earlier).  And as noted above, this has been in news once again prompted by a move by the government in MP to seek punishment of up to 7 years for slaughter of cow (<em>note <a href="http://www.spreadlaw.in/blogsmore.php?id=115 " target="_blank">the punishment is not for consumption of beef but for slaughter of cow</a></em>).</p>
<p><strong>The  cow and bullock have a venerated place in the ancient traditions of Bharat</strong>. The cow  is referred to by various names in the Vedas including <em>Aditi, KamaDhenu and Aghnya (that which cannot be killed). </em>Other than its milk and by-products, a cow has numerous &#8220;economic&#8221; uses. Cow dung is known to act as an anti-septic and reportedly acts as an air purifier when burnt. It also acts as a coolant when mixed with mud and applied to walls of dwellings. There is also some evidence to suggest that the chemical composition of cow-urine may have medicinal properties (and may play <a href="http://www.indianexpress.com/news/cow-urine-drug-developed-by-rss-body-gets-us/635054/">a part in cancer therapy</a>).</p>
<p style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://satyameva-jayate.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/Shambo.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-8676" title="Shambo" src="http://satyameva-jayate.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/Shambo-300x224.jpg" alt="" width="180" height="134" /></a></p>
<p style="text-align: left;">One of the many names of Bhagwaan ShriKrishna&#8217;s is &#8220;Gopal&#8221; (Protector of Cows).  Muhammad Ghori was apparently pardoned by Prithviraj Chauhan when he asked to be treated like a &#8220;cow&#8221; (unfortunately I don&#8217;t have full &amp; reliable references). There are records to suggest that Akbar issued <em>firmans </em>prohibiting cow-slaughter to respect the sentiments of the large Hindu population during his reign. This &#8220;ban&#8221; continued during the reign Jehangir and ShahJahan. The cow may also have been one of the triggers for the uprising against the British in 1857.</p>
<p><strong>Before we proceed any further, it would be instructive to read the <a href="http://indiankanoon.org/doc/93885/" target="_blank">judgement of the Supreme Court in the landmark case on this matter</a>, </strong>Mohd. Hanif Quareshi &amp; Others vs The State Of Bihar(&amp; Others), April, 1958 (emphasis added):</p>
<blockquote><p>So approaching and analysing the problem, <strong>we have reached the conclusion (i) that a total ban on the slaughter of cows of all ages and calves of cows and calves of she-buffaloes, male and female, is quite reasonable and valid and is in consonance with the directive principles</strong> laid down in Art. 48, (ii) that <strong>a total ban on the slaughter of she-buffaloes or breeding bulls or working bullocks (cattle as well as buffaloes) as long as they are as milch or draught cattle is also reasonable and valid</strong> and (iii) that a total ban on the slaughter of she- buffaloes, bulls and bullocks (cattle or buffalo) after they cease to be capable of yielding milk or of breeding or working as draught animals cannot be supported as reasonable in the interest of the general public.</p></blockquote>
<p>Note that while the Directive Principles are unenforceable by themselves but constitutionality of laws is usually examined in the light of directive principles.  Even stronger than the 1958 ruling, is this <a href="http://indiankanoon.org/doc/1776341/" target="_blank">conclusion from a (relatively) recent judgement by the Supreme Court (from 2005</a>) in the case of State Of Gujarat vs Mirzapur Moti Kureshi Kassab (emphasis added):</p>
<blockquote><p>In the case before us, <strong>we have material in abundance justifying the need to alter the flow of judicial opinion</strong>.…Independent India, having got rid of the shackles of foreign rule, was not even 11 years old then. Since then, the Indian economy has made much headway and gained a foothold internationally. Constitutional jurisprudence has indeed changed from what it was in 1958, as pointed out earlier. Our socio-economic scenario has progressed from being gloomy to a shining one, full of hopes and expectations and determinations for present and future. Our economy is steadily moving towards prosperity in a planned way through five year plans, nine of which have been accomplished and tenth is under way. We deal with the findings in Quareshi-I seriatim.</p>
<p>Finding 1 :…So far as the State of Gujarat is concerned, we have already noticed, while dealing with the documentary evidence available on record, that fodder shortage is not a problem so far as this state is concerned and <strong>cow progeny</strong>, the slaughtering whereof has already shown a downward trend during the recent years, <strong>can very well be fed and maintained without causing any wasteful drain on the feed</strong> requisite for active milch, breeding and draught cattle.…<strong>the documentary evidence available on record shows that beef contributes only 1.3% of the total meat consumption pattern of the Indian society</strong>. Butchers are not prohibited from slaughtering animals other than the cattle belonging to cow progeny. Consequently, only a part of their activity has been prohibited. They can continue with their activity of slaughtering other animals. <strong>Even if it results in slight inconvenience, it is liable to be ignored if the prohibition is found to be in the interest of economy and social needs of the country</strong></p>
<p>Finding 3 : <strong>47 years since, it is futile to think that meat originating from cow progeny can be the only staple food or protein diet for the poor population of the country</strong>. &#8216;…The real problem, facing India, is not the availability of food, staple food and protein rich diet; the real problem is its unequal distribution. The real challenge comes from the slow growth of purchasing power of the people and lack of adequate employment opportunities. ….It will, therefore, <strong>not be correct to say that poor will suffer in availing staple food and nutritional diet only because slaughter of cow progeny was prohibited</strong>.</p>
<p>Finding 4 :…<strong>For multiple reasons</strong> which we have stated in very many details while dealing with Question-6 in Part II of the judgment, <strong>we have found that bulls and bullocks do not become useless merely by crossing a particular age</strong>. The Statement of Objects and Reasons, apart from other evidence available, clearly conveys that cow and her progeny constitute the backbone of Indian agriculture and economy. …This Statement of Objects and Reasons tilts the balance in favour of the constitutional validity of the impugned enactment. …</p>
<p><strong>In the light of the material available in abundance before us, there is no escape from the conclusion that the protection conferred by impugned enactment on cow progeny is needed in the interest of Nation&#8217;s economy. Merely because it may cause &#8216;inconvenience&#8217; or some &#8216;dislocation&#8217; to the butchers, restriction imposed by the impugned enactment does not cease to be in the interest of the general public</strong>.</p>
<p><strong>The former must yield to the latter</strong>.…The Bombay Animal Preservation (Gujarat Amendment) Act, 1994 (Gujarat Act No. 4 of 1994) is held to be intra vires the Constitution.</p></blockquote>
<p><strong>Let us now look at the “rational” or “liberal” argument against a ban on cow slaughter</strong>:</p>
<p><strong>1] That Hindus ate beef in the past – as mentioned in the Vedas</strong>. The first point against this argument is the fact that there are contradictory statements within the Vedas regarding “beef eating”. Very likely, these are the result of incorrect and improper translation (e.g. <a href="http://agniveer.com/68/no-beef-in-vedas/" target="_blank">see this post on Agniveer.com</a>) and therefore cannot be relied on as being authoritative. But even if one was to assume so &#8211; for the sake of argument &#8211; this is a bad argument because not all past practices are carried over to current times (neither should they be; e.g. past practice of not dining or marrying outside the &#8220;jati&#8221;). The second (important) point to note (and ask) re. the Vedic references is: <em>are these references really laudatory &#8211; and praiseworthy &#8211; or are &#8220;beef-eaters&#8221; looked down upon?</em> Furthermore, most (all?) references are to the meat of the bull – not cow; and even of there were references to cow, they refer to a sterile cow; <a href="http://agniveer.com/3942/no-beef-in-vedas-part2/" target="_blank">also see part II of the post on Agniveer</a>)</p>
<p><strong>2] The second &#8220;liberal&#8221; argument against a ban on cow slaughter is that the state shall not dictate what I can and cannot eat</strong>; that the only reason the state can impose its views on such matters is if you harm others in this process, or if doing so will harm the environment. A good illustration of this argument is in <a href="http://sabhlokcity.com/2010/08/baba-ramdevs-irrational-demand-to-prohibit-cow-slaughter/?wpmp_tp=0" target="_blank">this post by Sanjeev Sabhlok</a> (also FTI colleague):</p>
<blockquote><p>If eating beef is not lethal and it doesn&#8217;t kill others, then there is no cause to interfere in the freedoms of others to eat beef.</p></blockquote>
<p>Now substitute “eating beef” with “taking drugs” or “having multiple wives” – and you will begin to see why this argument looks somewhat shaky. <strong>Freedom cannot be absolute – and is usually circumscribed by prevailing social norms and expectations. If such expectations overwhelmingly treat the cow as an object of reverence &#8211; or if there is general social revulsion towards slaughter of a particular animal &#8211; perhaps there is case to be made for a law banning slaughter of cows</strong><strong>?</strong></p>
<p>It is obvious that cow-slaughter arouses strong emotions in people. Bear in mind that people elect a government (in a democracy) to make/propose laws and take decisions that represent the collective will of the society (in addition to maintaining their safety and security). In a democracy, laws will usually be a manifestation of how the society wishes to govern itself (including in the form of a Constitution) &#8211; and are usually based on traditions and norms. <strong>If the society and the community wishes that the slaughter of cow ought to be prohibited in a land where it has been worshiped and held sacred for millennia, is that not a good reason for having such a law? </strong>Unless public opinion change to such a degree where such a ban becomes irrelevant?</p>
<p>I am tempted to point out that another argument (which is sometimes) used in this discussion &#8211; along the lines of <em>&#8220;let society decide on its own to not eat beef, if it so wishes, but governments should have no role to play in this</em>&#8221; &#8211; would mean government should have no role in banning untouchability or demands for dowry, right?</p>
<p>Please note that a nuanced argument can be made supporting a ban on cow-slaughter while maintaining neutrality with regards beef consumption (this would mean &#8211; for instance &#8211; that restaurants are free to import beef and serve it to their customers).  Anyway, enough food for thoughts for now, I guess. I will stop at this point &#8211; with the caveat that <strong>my thoughts on this matter are still evolving</strong>. Therefore, happy to be challenged, contradicted and of course supported!  Comments and thoughts, welcome as always</p>
<p><strong>P.S.</strong> While I am broadly supportive of the government&#8217;s bill in MP, I worry seriously about the apparent &#8220;presumption&#8221; of guilt and putting the onus on the accused to prove his or her innocence (these are also the reasons &#8211; among others &#8211; on why I worry <a href="http://satyameva-jayate.org/2011/05/26/communal-violence/">about the Communal Violence Bill</a> and <a href="http://satyameva-jayate.org/2011/08/01/angry-with-iac/">an all-powerful &#8220;Jan Lokpal&#8221;</a>).</p>
<p><strong>References/ Supporting Documents </strong>(the three below, courtesy Wikipedia; have not been independently verified):</p>
<ol>
<li>&#8220;Religious Nationalism, Hindus and Muslims in India&#8221;, Peter van der Veer, pp. 83 and 86, 91 and 92 ISBN 0520082567</li>
<li>&#8220;The Making of an Indian Metropolis, Colonial governance and public culture in Bombay&#8221;, 1890/1920, Prashant Kidambi, p. 176, ISBN 9780754656128</li>
<li>&#8220;Vishnu&#8217;s crowded temple, India since the great rebellion&#8221;, pp. 67-69, Maria Misra, 2008, Yale University Press, ISBN 9780300137217</li>
</ol>
<p>Here is a <a href="http://dahd.nic.in/ch1/chap1.htm#item1  " target="_blank">richly linked and referenced web-page</a> on the history and background to this question and the matter of cow slaughter</p>
<p>Here is <a href="http://konenakshatra.wordpress.com/2009/10/05/does-beef-eating-harm-the-hindu-cause/" target="_blank">an unusual case for eating beef – from a Hindu perspective</a> and a <a href="http://www.samarthbharat.com/holycow.htm" target="_blank">case for cow slaughter &#8211; from an economic perspective</a> (this also has an excerpt that suggests Swami Vivekananda reportedly favoured beef-consumption).</p>
<p><strong>Surprising Find of the Day</strong>: the following <a href="http://dahd.nic.in/ch1/chap1.htm#item21 " target="_blank">quote attributed to <strong>Mahatma Gandhi</strong></a> (December 1927):</p>
<blockquote><p><strong>As for me, not even to win Swaraj, will I renounce my principle of cow protection.</strong></p></blockquote>
<p><strong>Related</strong> Posts: <a title="Permalink" href="http://satyameva-jayate.org/2007/07/30/if-muslims-revered-cattle/">If Muslims revered cattle – excerpt</a> and  <strong><a title="Permanent Link to Of �Sacred Bulls�, Divinity &amp;�Development" rel="bookmark" href="http://satyameva-jayate.org/2007/05/18/sacred-bulls-divinity-and-development/">Of &#8220;Sacred Bulls&#8221;, Divinity &amp; Development</a> </strong></p>
<p><strong></strong>Also see: <a href="http://satyameva-jayate.org/2008/07/16/this-is-funny/">This is funny..</a> and the <a href="http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2008-04-27/india/27769284_1_cow-slaughter-act-islamic-seminary-darul-uloom-fatwa" target="_blank">Deoband fatwa on &#8220;beef-eating</a>&#8221;</p>
<p><strong>P.P.S.</strong> I was not aware that <a href="http://kb.rspca.org.au/Is-eating-cats-or-dogs-legal_489.html" target="_blank">certain types of meat consumption is banned in Australia</a> (so I guess Hindus are the not the only ones who are irrational!):</p>
<blockquote><p>RSPCA Australia believes the consumption of cat and dog meat should be expressly prohibited in statute. Cats and dogs hold a specific place in Australian society as companion animals. <strong>Eating cats and dogs is therefore offensive to mainstream Australian cultural values</strong>. <strong>RSPCA Australia believes that state governments should follow the lead of South Australia and create specific offences for eating cats and dogs..</strong>.</p></blockquote>
<p>Additional (suggested) Readings: <a href="http://satyameva-jayate.org/2008/09/17/vegetarianism-environment/">Eating less meat may help save the planet</a> and <a href="http://satyameva-jayate.org/2009/03/25/red-meat-bad-for-you/">Eating red meat may be really bad for you..</a></p>
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		<title>Max Mueller &amp; Correcting History: One Step at a Time</title>
		<link>http://satyameva-jayate.org/2011/10/20/max-mueller/</link>
		<comments>http://satyameva-jayate.org/2011/10/20/max-mueller/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2011 14:27:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>B Shantanu</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Ancient Indian History]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[British Rule in India]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Distortions, Misrepresentation about Hinduism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Distortions, Misrepresentations about India]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Indian History]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Asiatic Society]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Dr Aich]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Lies with Long Legs]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Max Mueller]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Prodosh Aich]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[William Jones]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://satyameva-jayate.org/?p=8314</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I read this interview of Dr Prodosh Aich a few months back but did not post it as I wanted to get my hands on his book. &#8220;Lies on Long Legs&#8221; is a painstakingly researched book that goes back to primary sources in an effort to find out more about the &#8220;History&#8221; of India &#8211; as we know about it today. Who were these people who &#8220;authored&#8221; this &#8220;history&#8221;? What was the basis of their interpretations? What were their intentions? What was their training? What were the factors that might ...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p style="text-align: left;">I read <a href="http://haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.aspx?PageID=11325" target="_blank">this interview of Dr Prodosh Aich</a> a few months back but did not post it as I wanted to get my hands on his book.<strong> &#8220;Lies on Long Legs&#8221; is a painstakingly researched book that goes back to primary sources in an effort to find out more about the &#8220;History&#8221; of India</strong> &#8211; as we know about it today. <strong>Who were these people who &#8220;authored&#8221; this &#8220;history&#8221;? What was the basis of their interpretations? What were their intentions? What was their training? What were the factors that might have coloured their understanding and narrative? </strong>Dr Aich has attempted to answer these questions in his work.  In the interview (excerpts below), Dr Aich labels Max Mueller a &#8220;swindler&#8221; and William Jones a &#8220;fraud&#8221;. Amongst the many startling things I learnt was that Max Mueller apparently had no formal training in Sanskrit.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">What Dr Aich has done &#8211; going back to the roots &#8211; reminds me of the painstaking work of <a href="http://satyameva-jayate.org/2005/11/07/the-biggest-whitewash-in-indian-history/" target="_blank">Dr V S Godbole &#8211; who has gone back to the &#8220;roots&#8221; to unearth more information about Taj Mahal</a> &#8211; which to the best of my knowledge has not been challenged so far. Sadly, his work has been completely ignored by media. I hope Dr Aich fares better. Below, some excerpts from the interview with Dr Prodosh Aich (I&#8217;ll be posting a few excerpts from the book later on). The book is available for <a href="http://www.samskritibookshelf.com/bookshelf/general/lies-with-long-legs/" target="_blank">purchase online via Samskriti</a>.  [UPDATE: You can now <a href="http://www.lieswithlonglegs.com/ReadOnline.aspx" target="_blank">read the entire book online on this link</a>]. In the meantime, read on (emphasis mine)&#8230;</p>
<p style="text-align: center;">*** <strong>Excerpts begin </strong>***</p>
<p><strong>Question: Your book &#8216;Lies with long legs&#8217; has recently been published. What is this about?</strong></p>
<p><strong>Answer: Whatever, we know about discoveries, scholars,  scientists, are mostly not true.</strong> For example, when you get a book today there are references and these references go back 10, 20 or 30 years. They don&#8217;t go back beyond that. On every page, one finds quotations but you will never find that a quotation has been challenged. One never checks whether that quotation is correct or not. It is just accepted. What ever is printed is accepted.</p>
<p><strong>Q: So every word is taken as a gospel?</strong></p>
<p>A: No, not as a gospel. It has been accepted in the academic world. And if you have 20 books on one subject, you can be sure that there would be another 20 books on the same subject but with almost same references. They will never go back to roots. <strong>What, I have done.  I have tried to question. I  put , to start with, a simple question. &#8220;Well you are telling me this. How do you know that it is true&#8221;? Then I look into the bibliography of these books&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>Q: So, you have done a research on India?</p>
<p>A: No,  that is not correct. As a matter of fact, I have not done any research. I wanted to know, who are these Aryans, Indo-Europeans and Indo-Germans and then tried to find out answers in the reference books and literature&#8230;I was very astonished to see that &#8220;Indo-Aryan&#8221; (the word) is very young. It came in vogue in the 19th century rather was invented in the second half of the19th century.</p>
<p style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://satyameva-jayate.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Lies-With-Long-Legs.jpg"><img class="size-full wp-image-11820  aligncenter" title="Lies With Long Legs" src="http://satyameva-jayate.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Lies-With-Long-Legs.jpg" alt="" width="103" height="138" /></a></p>
<p><strong>Q: Max Mueller is a very renowned name in India. We have a Max Mueller Institute here where German language is taught and various other activities are conducted. In my understanding, Max Mueller had a command on Sanskrit language and he translated Vedas and other works of Sanskrit. How did he come to acquire immense knowledge of the ancient language which incidentally was not a spoken language?</strong></p>
<p>A: Max Mueller. It is not his name. His name was Friedrich Maximillan Mueller. He did not publish in German. He did not get a job in Germany. He got a job with the East India Company in England. Most of his writings are in English. <strong>He was neither a scholar nor (did) he knew Sanskrit</strong>. He was a swindler.</p>
<p><strong>Q: You call him a swindler?</strong></p>
<p><strong>A: I call him a swindler. I can provide  proofs in support of my assertion. I can reason it out  also. Max Mueller had assumed that he was a scholar</strong>. From his own autobiography, from biographies written by his son and wife, from other biographies, from his other writings, and from his letters, we can reconstruct his life from birth to his death. <strong>After passing the High School, he never appeared in any examination rather never cleared any examination</strong>&#8230;Yet he calls himself a Master of Arts (MA). His wife calls him a Doctor of Philosophy. His wife maintains that he was a Ph. D. from the Leipzig  University. <strong>There is no record at the Leipzig University or any proof that he appeared in any examination there</strong>.</p>
<p>&#8230;Q: OK, but there are people who without going to school or university acquire knowledge of languages. So what about his knowledge of Sanskrit.</p>
<p>A: That is a different issue but one can&#8217;t describe oneself as a scholar or ascribe degrees to oneself without clearing  any examination&#8230;.Max Mueller never came to India&#8230;So the question arises that if had not learnt Sanskrit in India then he must have learnt it in Europe. So this is another part of my book &#8216;Lies with long legs&#8217; as we have tried to find out who was the first person, the pioneer, who taught Sanskrit in Europe.</p>
<p>Q: So who was this person?</p>
<p>A: He was a nobody, He was a simple boy of 18 when he came to India as an ordinary soldier. He completed is term and roamed around in India and then reached France. There he said that he knew Sanskrit. Quality of his knowledge of Sanskrit was that he knew the Devnagri alphabet well  but beyond that he could not make  a distinction between the language and script.</p>
<p>Q :What was his name?</p>
<p>A: Alexander Hamilton was his name.  There is a long story about him in the book because people said that he was a great Sanskrit scholar. So we traced his roots also. <strong>The most interesting thing while doing this book was that though all the material is available in the libraries,  no one else  worked on the available material. If some one claimed that a he was a scholar then nobody questioned that claim. Everyone started saying that the person was a scholar as it is written in printed words. It was presumed that</strong><strong> if one taught Sanskrit to others then he knew Sanskrit.</strong></p>
<p>&#8230;Q: Sanskrit was never a spoken language so how can this be learnt without a teacher? The language had to be learnt systematically for 6 to 7 years so that one could translate works like the Vedas?</p>
<p>A: It is not your opinion alone  Even some European thought the same. <strong>Unfortunately those who learnt Sanskrit systematically did not teach the language in Europe. Heinrich Roth was one such person who came to India and landed in Goa and from there was transferred  to Agra. There he became the principal of a Jesuit college.  He belonged to Jesuit order. In Agra, he learnt Sanskrit for six years, mastered the language so well that he &#8220;discussed&#8221; with the Brahmins in Sanskrit. Having understood the importance of Sanskrit, he compiled  a grammar book with Latin explanatory notes added to it. As a matter of  fact, he produced a simplified version of Panini&#8217;s grammar</strong>&#8230;The Sanskrit grammar vanished in the Vatican library. It was traced in 1988 and all Indologists agree that quality of this grammar book was far superior to the ones upon which Sanskrit was being taught in Europe. <strong>Others did not learn Sanskrit properly but they stoutly maintained that they knew Sanskrit</strong>.</p>
<p>&#8230;Europeans who never came to India but learnt Sanskrit alphabets  and saw Bhagvat Gita and recognised its alphabets. They could possibly recognise words but they did not understand it. So they would collect more book and apply their Christian mind and say that this is not logical so it has to be this or that. In this process, they were also trying to compile a dictionary. There was never a Sanskrit dictionary as grammar is the key to Sanskrit language. But they were trying to compile a dictionary word by word.</p>
<p>So in this way they have transported a type of Sanskrit to Europe where I  have doubts that it is Sanskrit at all. But <strong>the tragic part is that this Sanskrit has been imported  back to India.</strong> This is what we learn in India with the help of the Sanskrit dictionaries. The standard dictionary of Sanskirt here is of Sir Monier Monier who also never came to India before compiling his dictionary in 1854. He collected all materials and prepared  a dictionary diligently. But this dictionary was not available to Max Mueller. Max Mueller had only one dictionary written by one Wilson. He also stayed in Calcutta. He was a medical doctor. He served as Director of a mint because he had some knowledge of chemicals. He interacted with Bengali Pundits and he prepared the dictionary with the help of the Pundits of Calcutta in as late as 1819 when the first Sanskrit dictionary came out.  At best, Max Mueller could have used this dictionary. Max Mueller was at a place where Wilson taught Sanskrit. Max Mueller observes in his biography that Wilson did not have enough knowledge of Sanskrit.</p>
<p>Q: So you make a dictionary without learning a language?</p>
<p>A: Possibly one could make a dictionary.  Definitely not a good  one.   If you went to China and you met some Chinese and understood what they said and you understood it then make a dictionary.</p>
<p>Q: But with this kind of dictionary, one can&#8217;t translate?</p>
<p>A:  Definitely not. But did he translate? In order to translate, one has to have a  command on both languages. I think he had command on German and English. But whatever you translate from Sanskrit and even if one has command on both languages, it would be reflection of one&#8217;s mind. <strong>Max Mueller  did not understand Sanskrit. He had never read a Sanskrit text.  He had read Sanskrit text with the help of translation made by others.</strong></p>
<p style="text-align: center;">*** <strong>Excerpts end</strong> ***</p>
<p>Read the <a href="http://haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.aspx?PageID=11325" target="_blank">full  transcript of the interview here</a>.</p>
<p><strong>UPDATE</strong>: You can now <a href="http://www.lieswithlonglegs.com/ReadOnline.aspx" target="_blank">read the entire book online on this link</a></p>
<p>P.S. In this context, another interesting excerpt from <a href="http://www.trjawahar.com/printer.php?id=16344  " target="_blank">Founding Fathers of Astronomy</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>In these days of pseudo-secular anti-Hindu India, being actively promoted by the Government of India, scholarship only means being at home with what is written by the western scholars, who have during the last 250 years, continuously discredited the ancient part of Indian culture and tried their very best to bring down the dates to suit their colonial, Christian and now political purpose. If we carefully look into the works of the Englishmen and Europeans published during the 167 years of uninterrupted reign from Warren Hastings in 1772 to the beginning of World War II, for example, hundreds of books were published related to the topics of Indian religion, history and culture, we will find that accounts for all of those works were maliciously falsified and manipulated according to a definite plan as desired by the British Government. <strong>William Jones laid the foundation in 1784 AD for the Western History of Ancient India. He deliberately created the problem of the two Chandra Guptas and thus reduced by 1200 years the chronology of India. </strong></p>
<p>This pattern of distortion was continued and perfected by Lord Macaulay, who financed Max Muller (1823-1900) to translate the Rig Veda in a way that would destroy the beliefs of the newly English-educated Indians in their ancient literature. Max Muller agreed to that undertaking for the sake of Christianity and not for advancing the cause of sacred Vedic Heritage. Likewise the British Government——very much like the anti-Hindu and anti-National Government of India actively and openly manipulating the pro-Islamic and pro-Christian NCERT Textbooks today—then paid Pundit Taranath, Sanskrit Professor in Calcutta Sanskrit College, to misinterpret certain words of the Vedic Samhita that should reflect the meaning according to Max Muller’s translation of Rig Veda. <strong>As part of this mischievous political arrangement, Taranath compiled a huge dictionary called VACHASPATHYAM IN 1863 AD. He artfully corrupted the meaning of certain Vedic words</strong>. The pseudo-secular Anti-Hindu fake scholars of today are still using this Dictionary born out of colonial politics as their Bible for reference and political research today!</p></blockquote>
<p><strong>Related</strong> Posts: <a href="http://satyameva-jayate.org/2010/11/15/aich-we-are-know/ " target="_blank">Quote of the week: “We are, what we know…</a>” and <a title="Thus a system was created..later identified..as “corruption” in the Third-World" href="http://satyameva-jayate.org/2010/11/02/corruption-british-roots/" target="_blank">Thus a system was created..later identified..as “corruption” in the Third-World</a></p>
<p>Also read: <a rel="bookmark" href="http://satyameva-jayate.org/2010/07/10/shuddho-aushuddho/" target="_blank">Shuddho – Aushuddho: Distorting History, One Step at a Time</a>, <a rel="bookmark" href="http://satyameva-jayate.org/2010/06/24/correcting-history-2/" target="_blank">Correcting “History”: One Step at a Time</a> and <a rel="bookmark" href="http://satyameva-jayate.org/2009/11/10/correcting-history/" target="_blank">Correcting “History” – one bit at a time</a></p>
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		<title>Dharma-Himsa Paramo Dharma..</title>
		<link>http://satyameva-jayate.org/2011/08/10/dharma-himsa/</link>
		<comments>http://satyameva-jayate.org/2011/08/10/dharma-himsa/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Aug 2011 13:18:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>B Shantanu</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Distortions, Misrepresentation about Hinduism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Hindu Dharma]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Ahimsa]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Hitopadesha]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Pancha Tantra]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Panchatantra]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Param Dharma]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Vasudhaiv Kutumbakam]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://satyameva-jayate.org/?p=12333</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Excerpts from an essay by Swami Chinmayananda on non-violence and righteous violence titled, DHARMA HIMSA TATHAIVA CA (emphasis added):

Personally, I am no advocate of violence. But violence, too, has its rightful place in life, life does not preclude death. The average Indian has been moulded into a particular national mentality of quixotic tolerance. His attitude is shaped into its distinct pattern by the ideologies and moralities preached in our national literature. And no single work in our classics has gained such a wide influence on our people as the Bhagawad ...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excerpts from an essay by <strong>Swami Chinmayananda on non-violence and righteous violence</strong> titled, <a href="http://www.chinmaya.org.nz/Articles/Swami%20Chinmayananda/11.htm " target="_blank">DHARMA HIMSA TATHAIVA CA</a> (emphasis added):</p>
<p style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://satyameva-jayate.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Swami-Chinmayananda.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-12335" title="Swami Chinmayananda" src="http://satyameva-jayate.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Swami-Chinmayananda-213x300.jpg" alt="" width="128" height="180" /></a></p>
<blockquote><p><strong>Personally, I am no advocate of violence. But violence, too, has its rightful place in life, life does not preclude death</strong>. The average Indian has been moulded into a particular national mentality of quixotic tolerance. His attitude is shaped into its distinct pattern by the ideologies and moralities preached in our national literature. And no single work in our classics has gained such a wide influence on our people as the Bhagawad Gita: and <strong>in, this century, no other single message had such a universal appeal to our countrymen as the single line, &#8220;<em>Ahimsa Paramo Dharmah</em>&#8220;</strong> &#8212; &#8220;Non &#8211; Violence is the greatest Dharma.&#8221;</p>
<p>This line in its over &#8211; emphasis, has sapped both initiative and energy in our millions, and, instead of making us all irresistible moral giants, we have been reduced to poltroons and cowards. And banking on this cowardly resignation of the majority, a handful of fanatics have been perpetrating crimes which even the most barbarous cave dwellers would have avenged. To clothe our weaknesses, we attribute to them glorious names and purposefully persuade ourselves to believe that they are brilliant ideologists !</p>
<p>Let us for a moment go to the original sacred verse and investigate the significances of the moral precept: <em>Ahimsa Paramo Dharmah</em>. <strong>This is the opening line of a stanza, and the very next line reads: <em>Dharma himsaa tathaiva cha</em>. &#8220;So too is all righteous violence.</strong>&#8221; Indeed, non &#8211; violence is the supreme policy to be adopted by man to foster enduring peace in the world; but there are certain dire moments in the life of individuals, as of nations, when we will have to meet force with force in order that justice be done.</p>
<p>To every individual his mother, wife and children are the nearest dependents and to guard their honour and life is the unavoidable first moral duty of each head of the family. This is an obligation whether the victim be a member of the majority or of the minority class within a country, province or city.</p>
<p><strong>By the over &#8211; emphasis laid on non-violence we have come to witness the pathetic situation of today</strong>, when thousands, in cowardly fear take to precipitate flight, leaving their innocent children to be butchered and their unarmed helpless women to be dishonoured or converted or killed. Under the cloak of glorified non &#8211; violence, an entire nation of cowards fly from their homes, when a small sect of fanatic barbarians boldly stalk in and out of their open undefended thresholds to kill, to rape, and to loot. When will we learn to fully interpret our Vedas, scriptures and Upanishads. If only we all learn that dharma &#8211; himsa is equally noble as ahimsa.</p></blockquote>
<p>Comments, thoughts welcome&#8230;and while on this, <strong>don&#8217;t forget to read the <a href="http://satyameva-jayate.org/2008/09/05/kashmir-bjp-vasudhaiv/" target="_blank">real story behind Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam</a>. </strong></p>
<p><strong>Related </strong>Posts: The series on &#8220;<a href="http://satyameva-jayate.org/2010/02/13/dharma-part-3/" target="_blank">Understanding Dharma</a>&#8221; and <a href="http://satyameva-jayate.org/2010/10/09/raj-dharma-dr-iyer/" target="_blank">Raj Dharma</a></p>
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		<title>Dalit Muslims, Caste and Sociological Phenomenon</title>
		<link>http://satyameva-jayate.org/2011/04/13/dalit-muslims-caste/</link>
		<comments>http://satyameva-jayate.org/2011/04/13/dalit-muslims-caste/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Apr 2011 04:33:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>B Shantanu</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Distortions, Misrepresentation about Hinduism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Hindu Social System]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Reservations, Affirmative Action]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Caste System]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Dalit Christians]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Dalit Muslims]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jati Pratha]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Varna System]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Varnas]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://satyameva-jayate.org/?p=11242</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dear All: I am reproducing below a brief but very interesting email exchange between Sh Yoginder Sikand and Sh Jay Vachani precipitated by a recent article in Tehelka by Sh Sikand, titled, Converted dalits get no justice. In the article, Sh Sikand has suggested that &#8220;Muslim and Christian Dalits should be given reservation just like those who embraced Sikhism and Buddhism&#8220;. This argument is not new but Sh Vachani has done a fine job of exposing the core of it &#8211; viz. caste being a sociological phenomenon&#8230;Pl read on (Thanks ...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear All: I am reproducing below a brief but very interesting <strong>email exchange between Sh Yoginder Sikand and Sh Jay Vachani precipitated by</strong> a recent article in Tehelka by Sh Sikand, titled,<strong> <a href="http://www.tehelka.com/story_main49.asp?filename=Ne040211PROSCONS.asp " target="_blank">Converted dalits get no justice</a></strong>. In the article, Sh Sikand has suggested that &#8220;<em>Muslim and Christian Dalits should be given reservation just like those who embraced Sikhism and Buddhism</em>&#8220;. This argument is not new but Sh Vachani has done a fine job of exposing the core of it &#8211; viz. caste being a sociological phenomenon&#8230;Pl read on (<em>Thanks to Sanjay for bringing to to my attention and for getting Sh Vachani&#8217;s permission to reproduce the exchange here; I have taken out email addresses to protect privacy; emphasis is mine</em>).</p>
<p style="text-align: center;">*** Email exchange arranged chronologically (oldest email first) ***</p>
<p><strong>First email from Jay Vachani</strong></p>
<p>Dear Mr Sikand, This is with reference to your article &#8220;Converted Dalits get no justice&#8221; in the 2nd April 2011 issue of Tehelka magazine. I&#8217;m confused by your position. Perhaps you can help me understand.</p>
<ol>
<li> It is your position that the caste system is on account of Hindus. The Indian constitution Article 25 (2) (b) defines Hindus as those who also profess the Sikh, Jain or Buddhist faiths. If that is indeed the case, then what is wrong with say, a Buddhist scheduled caste (synonymous with a Hindu scheduled caste under the constitution) receiving benefits under the constitution and the law? If the caste system is an exclusively Hindu phenomenon, then by definition, it should not be applicable to the &#8220;egalitarian&#8221; Islamic and Christian faiths since they don&#8217;t recognise the caste system. Or am I missing something here?</li>
<li>On the other hand, if the caste system is in fact prevalent among Muslims as well as <a href="http://stateless.freehosting.net/Caste%20in%20Indian%20Muslim%20Society.htm" target="_blank">you have demonstrated in your article</a> &#8211; where you have claimed that the practice of caste discrimination among Muslims is on account of incorrect applications of fiqh and incorrect interpretations of the Koran &#8211; then shouldn&#8217;t the removal of social ills be done from WITHIN the community itself since Islam doesn&#8217;t, apparently, sanction any such social discrimination?  By making a case for Muslim scheduled castes, are you not seeking the approval, sanction &amp; perpetuation of  a caste system which is highly anti-Islamic, according to you?</li>
<li>In your interview titled &#8220;<a href="http://www.countercurrents.org/dalit-sikander030404.htm" target="_blank">Politics of Conversion</a>&#8221; with one Rashid Salim Adil in Counter Currents, you have not challenged any of the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_among_South_Asian_Muslims" target="_blank">claims made by Mr Adil  viz. on the Muslim caste system</a>,  or his incredible interpretation of  Dr Ambedkar&#8217;s views on Muslim society when in fact Dr Ambedkar is on record saying &#8220;writing that the social evils in Muslim society were &#8220;<em>worse than those seen in Hindu society</em>&#8221; (in &#8220;Pakistan and the Partition of India&#8221;). That&#8217;s your prerogative as an interviewer. But then they lead one to ask the following questions:</li>
<li>Do you agree with the point made by Rashid Salim Adil that &#8220;Islam can offer the Dalits a means to their salvation, freeing them from caste slavery? If yes, then why isn&#8217;t it a  call for conversion? If no, then clearly, Islam isn&#8217;t the answer either.</li>
</ol>
<p>I hope, but am not hopeful, you will respond. Jay Vachani</p>
<p><strong>***</strong></p>
<p><strong>Reply by Yogi Sikand</strong></p>
<p>Dear Jay, Thanks for your mail.</p>
<p>The Indian Constitution clubs Sikhs, Buddhists and Jains along with the Hindus for purposes of personal law, but this does not mean that these communities are in fact Hindus.</p>
<p>The caste system may be Brahminical/Hindu in its origins, but because the majority of non-Hindus in India are of Hindu origin, they, too are, affected by it. In their case, it exists without any theological sanction&#8211;as a sort of sociological phenomenon. There is thus every reason why it is imperative for the state to extend the same affirmative policies to Christian and Muslim Dalits groups as apply to the so-called &#8216;Hindu&#8217; Dalits, irrespective of their theological differences.</p>
<p>As for my interview with Adil, which I did a great many years ago actually, my views have changed&#8212;I think the dominant ways of understanding Islam, as with other religions, are problematic</p>
<p>Yoginder</p>
<p>***</p>
<p><strong>Reply by Jay Vachani</strong></p>
<p>Dear Mr Sikand, Thank you for the prompt response.</p>
<p>If I understand you right, are you making the point then that the so-called caste based discrimination is a sociological phenomenon (as many Hindu scholars have pointed out as a corruption of the jati and varna system) and not a religious one? If that is indeed the case, then shouldn&#8217;t all forms of sociologically originated discrimination (eg women&#8217;s rights, rights of homosexuals) need to be dealt with? In other words, shouldn&#8217;t there be a uniform treatment of the issue of the discriminated? Shouldn&#8217;t there be a uniform civil law? The secular liberal West has uniform civil laws and all citizen&#8217;s rights are protected/ discriminated equally under those laws.</p>
<p>Am very curious to know your views on this.</p>
<p>***</p>
<p><strong>Reply by Yogi Sikand</strong></p>
<p>Dear Jay,</p>
<p>Thanks for yuor mail</p>
<p>Caste is not a distortion of the varna system, unlike what Brahminical &#8216;scholars&#8217; claim. Moreover, jati-varna discriminationa dn degradation is clearly part of what is called Hinduism, and so it is, at least in the Hindu case, both a sociological as well as theological issue.</p>
<p>I don;&#8217;t see how the issue of uniform personal law relates to the issue of reservations&#8211;which is, as far as I could understand&#8211;a link that you want to establish.</p>
<p>Yogi</p>
<p>***</p>
<p><strong>Reply by Jay </strong><strong> Vachani</strong></p>
<div id="_mcePaste">Dear Mr Sikand,</div>
<div id="_mcePaste">My question quite simply this: is discrimination based on caste essentially a sociological issue or a theological one? If as you say, it is sociological then doesn&#8217;t it stand to reason that all discrimination based on sociological factors ought to be equally banned? Hence the point about a uniform law that ensures that India is a truly secular, liberal, modern nation like many Western democracies. Maybe I&#8217;m missing a point here.</div>
<div>If on the other hand, the discrimination is not sociological but essentially theological, then positive discrimination ought to be used to benefit only those affected by the theology. Shouldn&#8217;t it?</div>
<div id="_mcePaste">Perhaps you can help clarify your position with specific reference to the questions above?</div>
<div id="_mcePaste">Look forward</div>
<div id="_mcePaste">Jay</div>
<div id="_mcePaste">PS:Let us not digress on whether Brahminical scholars (scholars &#8211; with or without quotes) were accurate in their readings or not. All of us have biases and they show up rather obviously.</div>
<p style="text-align: center;">***</p>
<p style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://satyameva-jayate.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Converted-Dalits-Tehelka-Sikand.jpg"><img class="size-medium wp-image-11251  aligncenter" title="Converted Dalits Tehelka Sikand" src="http://satyameva-jayate.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Converted-Dalits-Tehelka-Sikand-300x250.jpg" alt="" width="180" height="150" /></a></p>
<p>As of 11th April, I am not aware of any follow-up or any other response from Sh Sikand.  Comments/thoughts welcome, as always.</p>
<p><strong>A few related </strong>Posts:  <a rel="bookmark" href="http://satyameva-jayate.org/2009/11/13/christian-converts/">Who are these “Christian Converts”?</a></p>
<p style="text-align: left;"><a rel="bookmark" href="http://satyameva-jayate.org/2009/11/02/joke-indian-media-11/">Who are these “caste Hindus”?</a> ,   <a rel="bookmark" href="http://satyameva-jayate.org/2007/09/29/fresh-look-at-reservations-part-2/">A fresh look at Reservations and Quotas – Part II</a> ,</p>
<p style="text-align: left;"><a rel="bookmark" href="http://satyameva-jayate.org/2009/03/24/caste-system-discrimination-2/">Hinduism, “Caste System” and discrimination – Part II</a> and <a rel="bookmark" href="http://satyameva-jayate.org/2008/06/09/british-caste-system/">The British ‘Caste System’ – excerpts</a></p>
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