Secular Harit Desh – Part II
This is a sequel to Sanjay’s earlier post: Secular Harit Desh.
In this short post, Sanjay draws our attention to a couple of interesting developments that – in his view – are likely to have a profound impact on Indian society and politics. Please read on…
1] PFI and Muslims in South India: The Muslims in South India are organizing themselves (inspired no doubt by similar efforts by Christian organizations) along with dalits, tribals, religious and cultural minorities under the banner Popular Front of India (which is a federation of a clutch of other groups). PFI was set up in 2004. Its key members are:
- Karnataka Forum for Dignity (KFD) (Karnataka State)
- National Development Front (NDF) (Kerala State)
- Manitha Neethi Pasarai (MNP) (Tamilnadu State)
Their constitution, as published on the site, is noble – it even claims to be secular. However the content on the side is entirely Muslim oriented/agenda based. There are some shocking articles (e.g. the Mumbai blasts were engineered by Israel-US-India written by one Amaresh Misra) and articles by the likes of Ram Punyani (an IIT-B Prof) who’s definition of secularism is to never criticize Muslims/Islam and find contextual reasons for Islamic terrorism while whole-heartedly condemning all activities of Hindus (e.g. link).
One of their affiliates is an Imam’s Council.
It won’t be long before PFI becomes a political force and contests elections a la the AUDF, an ostensibly secular organization.
2] The situation in Assam: Assam is a front-line state against Bangladeshi immigrants, Bodo and ULFA separatists. It is a strategic state for India. Over the past few years, Badruddin Ajmal, a millionaire businessman has nurtured and launched the AUDF. In its maiden electoral foray in 2009 election, AUDF won 10 seats in Assam (total 126). Check out their vote share 9.07% compared to the BJP’s 10.88 and the Congress’ 15.28!
Among his other credentials: He is a member of Advisory Board (Shura) of Darul Uloom Deoband, Uttar Pradesh and Central Working Committee, Jamiat Ulema-e-Hind. He is also the President of State Jamiat Ulama-e-Assam and Tanzim Madaris-e Quamia — All Assam Non-government Madrasa Board that prepares the curriculum and conducts examinations throughout the state for more than 400 madrasas. Furthermore, he is also related to a dozen other madrasas, schools, and orphanages either as Chairman or Secretary in various parts of Northeast India.
These developments are bound to lead to increased tension and social disharmony with Hindu groups responding.
*** End ***
Sadly it is left to bloggers and commentators like Sanjay to bring these issues to our attention.
Where is the debate on these trends? Where is the discussion? Where is the analysis? Where is the sense of unease?
Or has everyone simply stopped caring?
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Related Posts:
The Increasing Talibanization of South India
Islamisation of north-east is now a real threat…
Some startling stats from the eastern front…
“India Breaking†– Read this and Weep
Radical Islam finds willing recruits in fresh converts
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In all this concern about Muslims becoming radicalized, have you realized that you folks have become extremely radicalized yourself?!- and unmentionable in polite conversation. I am sure all of you have a laundry list of justifications for why you have become thus. Just check with the jihadis, they have a similar list of deeply held grievances too. And in your propaganda, both of your class use the same tools- generalization, paranoia of the mainstream, conspiracy theories about media, etc. FYI, there are a ton of mind-control weirdos out there too. And btw, nothing Dharma about what you are doing….regds
So Shantanu, I am astounded as I read more about you on your website. So you are ex-IFS, and have lived and worked in the liberal West, yet you post and give others the opportunity to post as if you are a fringe hate group?
You blame the incompetent Indian media- do you think the UK media will allow you to generalize about groups as you freely do?
I am saddened that your apparent epiphany did not reveal this great truth- that hate and divisiveness is never productive, that it will seduce you with its apparent logic. How do you distinguish yourself from the base divisive passions of the jihadi? And then you call your website satyameva-jayate! What did they say about this being kali-yuga…feel free to delete my posts..regds
*** COMMENT EDITED ***
In India, if you speak the truth you will be branded as:
1. Hindu militant
2. Communal
#. Fundamentalist
etc.
All the while the fake liberal commentators like FactCheck will collude with the hate mongers and lead the rashtra to a state of irreversible breakdown. As long as fake liberal commentators like FactCheck will continue to write in Isharabaazi lingo and insert *cheers* in their absurd comments, hardly any discussion is possible.
*** NOTE by MODERATOR ***
Anon: Pl. no personal insult. Thanks.
@ factcheck: I have not seen you here before, so welcome.
I will briefly address your comments…and I do hope you respond…
1] “you folks have become extremely radicalized yourself?!- and unmentionable in polite conversation“. Can you pl. help me understand just how a discussion such as above is an indication of “radicalization”? Or did I miss something?
I am aware that a lot (probably most!) of what I write is unmentionable in polite conversations…That is a choice others have made – not me. I have no idea where you are based or where have you lived/grown-up in India. But the portents in India are ominous. You can choose to discuss these issues – or have a polite conversation about the weather. I have made my choice.
“…generalization, paranoia of the mainstream, conspiracy theories about media“. Specifics please.
“…And btw, nothing Dharma about what you are doing…” Can you please share what is your understanding of “Dharma” – so we can discuss whether this is “dharmic” or not?
“You blame the incompetent Indian media- do you think the UK media will allow you to generalize about groups as you freely do?” My concern is not so much with the Indian (or UK) media – as it is with issues that are likely to shape developments in India over the coming decades.
“…hate and divisiveness is never productive” – I agree. But you cannot paper over fundamental differences in values under the guise of maintaining “unity” and “harmony”. One can choose to be blind about these things but that does not make them go away.
“…feel free to delete my posts..” – Nice try! If you had spent some more time on the website you would have realised that I don’t delete comments just because they are critical of me – or my approach.
If you are really serious and concerned about the direction this site is taking, I hope you will engage in a debate and a conversation – and suggest alternative approaches to dealing with some of the issues I address…rather than making sweeping generalisations.
Pl. note the last few lines of the post above…I will repeat them below: “Where is the debate on these trends? Where is the discussion? Where is the analysis?”
Welcome to the debate.
P.S. And finally, a request: if you do not wish to share your email address on this site, pl. type satyacomment AT gmail.com in the email address field. Otherwise your comment is likely to get stuck in the moderation queue. Thanks.
An on-going discussion on this issue over at the Bharat-Rakshak forums: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent
Shri.Shantanu,
PFI’s and other similar organisations are a direct result of ‘hawala’ transactions.
Please see this report dated 2004. (http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl2123/stories/20041119002903301.htm)
“The law enforcement agencies discover that Kerala’s thriving underground money transfer system received nearly Rs.708 crores through the regular banking channels in the 2000-2002 period, but the sources and ultimate beneficiaries of the funds remain unknown.”
That nothing came out of these investigations shows that till today, this illegal money transactions are going on.
ANy wonder such anti-national orgs are thriving.
Green “Harit Pradesh” is part of the proposed Mughalistan corridor that will link Pakistan with Bangladesh.
http://www.bengalgenocide.com/mughalistan.php
@factcheck
“Just check with the jihadis, they have a similar list of deeply held grievances too”
(This is directly towards Shantanu, but I would like to comment on this particular as rest are addressed by Shantanu.)
You might say reporters interview terrorists, but how often? Whereas every Hindu Organization is always ready to present their views in front of the camera and reporters, but there are rarely any Media houses which are ready to cover them.
Unfortunately people here in Bharat forget one thing while trying to be secular that fundamental differences can not be bridged(as very well said by Shantanu above.)
Jai Hind!
Thanks Shantanu for the welcome, and the civil tone.
At this point I cannot expand on the specific points I have made. At some point I hopefully will, but for now I will briefly touch on some broad themes below. Also, I was responding generally to several of your posts here and comments therein following a quick perusal, and not necessarily to this specific post.
“If you are really serious and concerned about the direction this site is taking..”
I very much am, this and the profusion of similar others. But I am afraid that much of all these discussions are about emotionally held positions, unlikely to be changed by debate. Usually in these instances, debates become self-reinforcing and polarizing, and are not about finding common ground or yielding to potentially correct alternative perceptions.
Part of the problem also is that I already agree with many of your details (say about 65%; rest are ignorant or mal-intentioned exaggerations- saying this simply from being aware of the whole situation about things you have posted from my home state). But it is majorly with your tone and sense of proportionality, when you spin details into overarching concepts and generalizations, that I strongly beg to differ. It is like, as happens, a white supremacist site using the series of 1984 Sikh violence, Gujarat violence, anti-Christian violence, rampant corruption and casteism in 80% Hindu India to claim that all Hindus are so clearly intolerant, primitive and backward. That is the problem with using details to generalize- much truth in the details but inaccurate conclusions, and from there, self-righteous outrage. So, in a debate, you and I may confirm our respective details, but that variance in proportionality, that generalization and worldview is an emotional instinct, the source of which our debate may not reach or enlighten. For that you need epiphanies, and I am encouraged you are prone to them.
As Gandhi would have said: I just ask you to be a better Hindu, and you will have your answers. At least you have the buzzwords right- Satyameva Jayate – Gandhi’s anthem, and I hope you will also, like Yuddhistara, meditate on what it means and not shallowly use such profound concepts. You are a clearly intelligent person, and intelligence comes with responsibility and obligations.
Thanks for the invitation and I will try to come here whenever I have time. And, if you could, if you are sincere about your claim that all this is for the good of India, I hope you will acknowledge in your discussions that masses of people cannot be classed into homogenous unyielding entities and will clearly identify such caveats and complexity. I know several of your commentators will be itching to call me all sorts of pretty labels, of ignoring obvious dangers, the writing on the wall etc, but I know and appreciate those arguments quite well. In the meantime, here is a model on a related issue for how serious but nuanced discussions can be carried out without hate and stereotypes; and for a slightly more US based perspective, here.
Best regards.
@ factcheck: Fair enough…I will wait for your specific points.
As for your broader themes, I am very happy to find a “common ground” and yield to “potentially correct alternative perceptions”. I will look forward to reading your views/ counter-points on some of the issues I have raised – especially about your home state (which is?) about which you suggest I do not know enough.
I am willing to be educated – and even more willing to be corrected.
As for “That is the problem with using details to generalize- much truth in the details but inaccurate conclusions…”
Unfortunately a lot of what is being discussed and debated here is something that is hard to prove or disprove empirically and one therefore relies on history, past experiences and one’s own world view to draw conclusions…Who is to say which of these alternative interpretations are right? Only time will tell.
Having said that, alternative interpretations do enrich the discussion (in my view), so they are very welcome here.
“I hope you will acknowledge in your discussions that masses of people cannot be classed into homogenous unyielding entities” – Yes, I agree with this.
Thanks for the links towards the end of your comment.
I hope to see you here more often.
Errrr factcheck,
Are you saying that there is no demand for Harit Pradesh (a state carved out on religious grounds) and this was all made up?
What are you saying?
=>
I know several of your commentators will be itching to call me all sorts of pretty labels, of ignoring obvious dangers, the writing on the wall etc, but I know and appreciate those arguments quite well.
=>
Dhanya ho mere bhaag!! Finally, I come across someone – even if on the internet – who is blessed with divya drishti.
Or merely projecting/wishful thinking? 🙂
Another farcical statement by of the websites claiming to show reality of Bharat Bhumi. Excerpts:
“Arrival of Islam and interaction with Greece, Arabia, Persia and Central Asia further enriched life, which can be discerned even in aspects like architecture and irrigation technology. Literature was also greatly influenced by these movements.”
“Who is India”
Who gave right to falsify and distort the history for their own need and greed?
Jai Hind!
कृषीदेश
A relevant extract re. the situation in Assam mentioned above. From Islamic Vote Bank Politics – Ominous Portents for India:
For years despite practising a brand of politics that favored Muslims through unapologetic minorytism, parties like the Congress and more recently regional outfits like Mulayam Singh Yadav’s Samajwadi Party in Uttar Pradesh, UP and Lalu Yadav’s Rashtriya Janatad Dal, RJD in Bihar, never really had a consolidated bloc of Muslim Voters they could rely on elections after elections. Sensing an opportunity in exposing the hollow minorytism practised by the likes of Congress, SP, RJD and more specifically AGP in Assam, a group of muslim outfits under the leadership of a Businessman turned Politician Badruddin Ajmal formed the Assam United Democratic Front or AUDF.
The Ajmal experiment in Assam paid off rich dividends with the AUDF contesting in 69 seats and winning 10, contrast this with the BJP contesting 125 seats and also winning only 10. What is astounding is the vote percentages with which the AUDF supported Muslim candidates won the elections in these 10 seats. For example in Bilasipara West in Assam the total turnout was 82%, which is very high for any election in India, however the winning Muslim candidate from AUDF polled only 24% of the votes. In Katigora which had nearly 70% voter turnout, the winning Muslim candidate from AUDF polled only 37%. Badruddin Ajmal himself in Jamunamukh which had a voter turnout close to 80% polled less than 50%. The story is pretty much the same in the rest of the seats save a couple. The lesson from Assam seems to be that despite a fragmented polity, there was sufficient consolidation of Muslim votes behind an upapologetically Muslim Political Outfit to ensure electoral victory despite very high overall voter turnouts.
factcheck has raised some very important issues which initially appear to question the basic thinking behind this post but actually questions the basic thinking of the website,its followers,commentators & its owner/moderator.
In all this concern about Muslims becoming radicalized
First of all this post is NOT about ALL Muslims becoming radicalized but about separatist Muslim intellectuals,liberals,Ulema,madrasas,politicians & self-hating Hindus (like Ajit Singh,Amaresh Misra & Ram Punyani)
have you realized that you folks have become extremely radicalized yourself?!
Every radicalization is not bad.If a man thinks all humans are equal then that is good radicalization but if he thinks that only Muslims are equal & all other humans are evil then that’s bad radicalization.
The site owner & followers are good radicals while the separatist Muslim intellectuals,liberals,Ulema,madrasas,politicians & self-hating Hindus are bad radicals.
Just check with the jihadis, they have a similar list of deeply held grievances too. And in your propaganda, both of your class use the same tools- generalization, paranoia of the mainstream, conspiracy theories about media, etc.How do you distinguish yourself from the base divisive passions of the jihadi? And btw, nothing Dharma about what you are doing
Basic thinking of a jihadi- only Muslims are equal & all other humans are evil.It is from this core idea that he generalizes, has a paranoia of liberal mainstream & floats conspiracy theories about liberal media.One of the basics of the owner of this site & its followers is to counter such jihadis because we believe in the foundation of dharma- All humans are equal.
the liberal West
The very fact that “westerners” call themselves as “West” instead of calling themselves as simply humans shows that they believe in liberty only amongst themselves & this shows that they are really not liberal but very intolerant.
yet you post and give others the opportunity to post as if you are a fringe hate group?
The site owner & commentators want the fringe hate group of separatist Muslim intellectuals,liberals,Ulema,madrasas,politicians & self-hating Hindus to love all humans alike.