No more “Christian Yoga”
Came across this story from Simon de Bruxelles in The Times (of London) today (Aug31 ’07):
Vicars ban “un-Christian” yoga for toddlers. It appears to “confirm” Yoga’s roots in Hinduism!
Excerpts (emphasis mine):
“A children’s exercise class has been banned from two church halls because it is teaching yoga. The group has been turned away by vicars who described yoga as a sham and un-Christian.
…
Rev Simon Farrar…( said) “We are a Christian organisation and when we let rooms to people we want them to understand that they must be fully in line with our Christian ethos. Clearly, yoga impinges on the spiritual life of people in a way which we as Christians don’t believe is the same as our ethos.”
The Rev Tim Jones, vicar of St James’s, said: “Any alternative philosophies or beliefs are offering a sham – and at St James’s Church we want people to have the real thing. Yoga has its roots in Hinduism, and attempts to use exercises and relaxation techniques to put a person into a calm frame of mind – in touch with some kind of impersonal spiritual reality.
The philosophy of yoga cannot be separated from the practice of it, and any teacher of yoga, even to toddlers, must subscribe to the philosophy.”
…
No more “Christian Yoga” then?
Also read: After Christian Yoga, Islamic Yoga* and Baba Ramdev goes politically correct
Clearly the vicar is fighting the demons in his mind.
He has no idea what he is talking about.
I can agree with him when he says Yoga is un-Christian.
Is it even remotely a christian thing for a Christian vicar to call Yoga a sham? How does he know? Has he practiced Yoga any time? How can he be so judgmental of something which he is not familiar with?
It would benefit all Christians and save many non-believers from being led astray if the Church concentrated on deciphering the doctrines and truth of Christianity rather than wasting time to prove the falsehood of other religions.
Much of the confusion about yoga really arises from the teaching of early yoga teachers who came to the west. Whether it was Maharishi Mahesh yogi or yoga teacher Desikachar, many of these early gurus maintained that yoga was a physical practice for the benefit of health and mental well-being and not a religious practice.
If christians then turned around and co-opted these practices and created christian yoga etc, part of the blame goes to these Hindu gurus who were so quick to dismiss the Hinduness of yoga.
Having said that however, one needs to be clear that yoga is not just a physical practice but a spiritual and religious one. Two of the core texts of yoga, the Bhagavad Gita and Patanjali’s yoga sutras are both rooted in the Hindu concept of God. In Patanjali’s yoga sutra, the very purpose of yoga itself (according to Patanjali) is to merge with Higher Being.
Yoga is the Mother of Vedic Hindu Culture and Dharma. Bhagavan Krishna and Shiva, both are regarded as Yogeswara (Lord of the Yoga) in Vedic Dharma.
Yoga is not merely a physical exercise, or asana. Asana is just one aspects of the Yoga. And Asana benefits the physical health, infact very little without practicing other angas (limbs) of Yoga. Yama, Niyama are must to reach to the level of Asana. Eight fold Patanjali Yoga are a process of step by step evolution.
Christians must acknowledge that, the very basis of their christian religion is the Vedic Hindu-Buddhist philosophy. Most of the good verses in Bible are copied and adapted from Bhagavad Gita and other Vedic scriptures. Vedic Hindu language, Sanskrit, is the mother of Europeans/western languages. If Vedic Hindus’ language, Sanskrit, is the mother of their language, how could it possible their religion is not based on Vedic Hindu philosophy?
I talked to many westerners and christians, they agree with my point of view. They agree with 100 percent that their language comes from east, that is India, and their religion is also based on eastern, read Indian Vedic Hindu-buddhist philosophy. It is just matter of time, westerner will awake to the truth.
Satyameva Jayate, (Truth alone triumphs). Truth unfolds itself, nothing can cover the truth.
The bane of Hindu society is that idealism doesnt go hand in hand with a thinking mind. The Baptist church in England has reportedly banned Yoga.
Correctly, in my view because Yoga and christianity are indeed incompatible, just as christianity and the church are incompatible in india and among the majority hindu populace.
This fatwa against yoga must be quickly followed by a fatwa to the faithful to abjure ayurveda too. Christianity must stick with allopathy which is rooted in christian science.
I watched the reaction of some Hindus to this piece of good news and the most common was –
“This is wrong because Yoga has nothing to do with religion”.
“This is wrong because the church in england has no idea of Indian culture”
(So yoga is indian culture now. Yoga is not Hindu, it is Indian and it is ‘culture’.)
Idealist Hindus dont pause to think, dont wait to formulate a political response. We jump, into the issue feet first, bounce up and down and say things that we think the media wants most to hear.
We shld just wait a while and then ask the church in india to stop this deceptive practise of ‘enculturing’ itself with Hindu symbols and hindu practises.
If yoga can corrupt christian religious beliefs i wonder how ‘enculturing’ will not similarly corrupt. The church in india must issue similar fatwa to the faithful to give up all inherited cultural symbols and practices, including jaati and varna, saree, bindi, flowers et al.
Instead of saying all this, we de-hinduise yoga mindlessly.The bane of Hindu society is that idealism doesnt go hand in hand with a thinking mind. The Baptist church in England has reportedly banned Yoga. Correctly, in my view because Yoga and christianity are indeed incompatible, just as christianity and the church are incompatible in india and among the majority hindu populace.
This fatwa against yoga must be quickly followed by a fatwa to the faithful to abjure ayurveda too. Christianity must stick with allopathy which is rooted in christian science.
I watched the reaction of some Hindus to this piece of good news and the most common was –
“This is wrong because Yoga has nothing to do with religion”.
“This is wrong because the church in england has no idea of Indian culture”
(So yoga is indian culture now. Yoga is not Hindu, it is Indian and it is ‘culture’.)
Idealist Hindus dont pause to think, dont wait to formulate a political response. We jump, into the issue feet first, bounce up and down and say things that we think the media wants most to hear.
We shld just wait a while and then ask the church in india to stop this deceptive practise of ‘enculturing’ itself with Hindu symbols and hindu practises.
If yoga can corrupt christian religious beliefs i wonder how ‘enculturing’ will not similarly corrupt. The church in india must issue similar fatwa to the faithful to give up all inherited cultural symbols and practices, including jaati and varna, saree, bindi, flowers et al.
Instead of saying all this, we de-hinduise yoga mindlessly.
The west is increasingly attacking/humiliating everything Hindu and this is only going to get worse. As islam takes over europe, christians are going to turn against the soft target – hindus and hinduism in their midst.
The slaughter of Shambo and Bhakti the temple bulls in the UK, increasing racist attacks against sikhs and hindus in canada, in england and in germany, distorting our religion in US textbooks are pieces of this pattern.
Sir,
Let us very clearly understand th the christian religion is a very primitive religion. it does not have the expanse of the sanatana dharma and i cannot encompass life as it is.
You must understand that when India was discussing the ‘Zero” they were living in mudhuts.
You must understand that they could not believe that the world went round the sun and literally ran down the sceintist at that time to his death. they could not believe what Copernicus said.
Their religion is so absurd that after nearly 300 YEARS!! after the scientist who was called a blasphemer by the church was excused and called a christian!!
With such a background do you think they will be able to understand the greatness of the study of Yoga. You must understand that most of these priests are people who have no other avenues to go through and selected to become priests.
They are not scientists like Copernicus, Galelio, Einstein, r thinkers like Aurelius, Aristotle etc.
Leave them be and just as the greatness of this philosophy is now slowly overtaking the world this will also come to pass.
Regards,
V.c.krishnan
Nandan, Subadra, Bharat, Radha and VC Krishnan:
Thanks for some great comments.
My view is this incident actually helps us make the case for (and highlights) the strong spiritual and philosophical aspects of Yoga and its roots in the Vedic tradition.
At the same time, I would agree with most of you that the statements by the Vicars should not be taken too seriously.
To one of the commenters above. According to Patanjali, the purpose of yoga is not to attain union with a higher being but instead to separate ‘purusha’ from ‘prakriti’. For most part, the concept of god (or ishvara) in the yoga sutras is a rather fuzzy one (no Ram, Krishna, Vishnu, Brahama, Mahesh etc)
Yoga is indeed one of five disparate philosophies (derived from samkhya) which comprise modern day hinduism. But (it might be ironic to some) – the concept of ‘hindusim’ (hindu is persian for sindhu) as such was non-existent when patanjali wrote the yoga sutras.
So for most part, the christians are clueless when it comes to yoga – but modern day hindus are almost as clueless when it comes to the vedas, yoga etc.
Christians have the right to define what their religion is. If they believe that yoga is antithetical to Christianity, it is their duty to protect their beliefs by refusing to host activities that they feel may corrupt their religion. This refusal occurs on the church’s own property over which the church has complete control.
So, I don’t find fault with vicars denying, on their property, activities deemed to be un-Christian. In fact, it shows a strong belief in God which is refreshing, especially in Europe.
But, as happens with many Christians (and many Muslims as well), they take it a step further by denying the validity of other religions. This denial is sometimes also taken to extremes in the form of violence (direct and subtle) against non-coreligionists.
Yoga may have come into existence long before formation of the religion known today as Hinduism. But I posit that Hinduism has evolved into its current form over many thousands of years (some say as long as 10,000 years) in the land that comprised present day India, Pakistan, Afganistan, and perhaps Persia. Yoga must certainly have been “passed on” during the evolution of Hinduism over these thousands of years.
The sutras 23 and 25 of the yoga sutra (chapter one ) of the yoga sutras do refer to a merging into Iswara. In addition, Iswara is not a fuzzy concept. Anyone who has some knowledge of the Upanishads knows that Iswara specifically refers to a personal saguna “God” as opposed to Brahman who is nirguna.
While the word “Hinduism” might in fact be a foreign one, it does not take away from the fact that the religion practiced east of the Indus was one that spanned the entire subcontinent. So you find similar ideas and customs which derive from the religion in all parts of India. Likewise, the mantras chanted, while there may be differences in intonation, are often the same–usually the ritualistic mantras come from either the Krishna or Shukla yajur veda. `
While I do welcome constructive criticism, I take exception to being called clueless. It is really funny that critical comments often come from those who don’t seem to have the courage to even put their own name.
Subadra Venkatesh – Great response.
Also, Do you have a blog? We would be really interested in reading it.
@ PS (comment # 7): Thanks for your comment and sharing your thoughts. But pl, be considerate on your choice of words. We all welcome debate and discussion – as well as criticism. But we do not have to stoop down to the level of namecalling. I hope you understand and agree with this.
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@ Munish : Good point about strong adherence to a particular belief system degenerating into “denying the validity of other religions. This denial is sometimes also taken to extremes in the form of violence (direct and subtle) against non-coreligionists.” – that is indeed the nub of the issue and the major problem.
***
@ Subadra: The word “Hindu” may actually have indigenous origins. See e.g. this post which I wrote a few months back.
https://satyameva-jayate.org/2007/03/04/origin-of-the-word-hindu/
Here is a 5:44 minute video entitled
“Can a Christian Practice Yoga”
Dear Shantanu
My personal view is that:
The Reaction to Ban Yoga by British Church or for that matter World Christian’s is a Panic Reaction to the spreading the Hindu Ethos around Christian Nations.
There is enough evidence to prove that Intellectual Christians are taking up Hindu Spiritualism without actually converting to Hinduism. That is why it is a Panic Reaction.
David Frauley runs an Oriental Institute of Vedic Studies in US and many more like him are taking up Hindu Philosophy in US and other Western Nations is the cause of such a reaction.
( Church is funding some US Academicians to counter this drain to Hindu ethos)
Christianity can only Convert by allurement the uneducated, low Socio-economic, poverty stricken Hindus BUT by changing the religion one can not do away with their misfortunes, the common sense in the society is taking up Hindu way of life.
Dr. Ambekar.
Christian yoga is just another part of a larger, more insidious plan to foist Christian theology on Hindu cultural practices. Evangelical Christianity have a concept of “replacement theology” which traditionally was applied to the Jewish people, trying to convince them that the messiah prophesy of their religious scriptures was satisfied by the appearance of Jesus etc.
In India, we find similar attempts where Hindu religious and cultural practices like dance, music etc. are first separated from their religous moorings and secularized. After that, the former religious underpinnings of it are replaced by Christianity. An example of this is the Kalai Kaveri institute of Indian dance in Tamil Nadu which teaches Christian Bharata Natyam, i.e. uses all the body movements and theoretical basis of Bharata Natyam, but enacts Christian stories. This is extremely silly since Bharata Natyam traces its origins to the dance of Lord Shiva.
It doesn’t just stop there. We find consistent attempts to tell us that the God of the Vedanta (Iswara or Brahman) is only Christ. I once went to a dance program by Father Barboza (he has since then left the priesthood). In the introduction, they start with the lines “Asatoma sadgamaya etc.” and lit a lamp to a picture of jesus etc. I was stunned. I could not believe the audacity of co-pting my religous prayers for such use.
Many Indians mistakenly think this is really an an attempt to make Christianity more Hindu. This might be an acceptable interpretation if one were not cognizant of the fact that Christianity has done this throughout its history and basically replaced the religous beliefs on entire continents.
Thank you Ram Sundar. Yes, I (finally) do have a blog. It’s at India-talks.com. Please check it out. You can also go to my other one at http://www.karmayogini.blogspot.com.
Thank you Shantanu. Great article on the origin of the word Hindu.
Swamiji: Thanks for the link.
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Dr Ambekar and Subadra: Thanks for your comments (and the link to your blog, Subadra).
I will have a look and respond in some more detail later.
Yoga at NY high school causes stress among critics
Oct 2, 2008
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081002/ap_on_re_us/yoga_challenge_2
MASSENA, N.Y. – A group of parents and religious leaders in upstate New York want yoga classes out of public schools, saying the instruction violates boundaries between church and state.
Two high school teachers began using yoga last year to help students relieve stress before exams. Special education teacher Martha Duchscherer and Spanish teacher Kerry Perretta also were developing a districtwide program.
But those plans were halted after parents and others in the community complained students were being indoctrinated in Hindu rites.
“We are not opposed to the benefits. We can understand the benefits. We are opposed to the philosophy behind it and that has its ties in Hinduism and the way they were presenting it,” said the Rev. Colin Lucid of Calvary Baptist Church in Massena.
The program does not have ulterior motives, Julie Reagan, Massena Board of Education president, said Thursday.
“If the school board felt there was any hidden religious activity behind the motives of our two instructors, we certainly wouldn’t allow that,” she said. “There is absolutely none of that. The teachers are well intended and trying to offer an aspect of fitness in the classroom that
relaxes and readies the children for better learning.”
A hundred schools in 26 states use yoga in the classroom to relieve stress, Reagan said. Federal funds and grants are available to educators seeking yoga certification, she said.
According to a statement on the Web site of the American Yoga Association, yoga is not a religion, although its practice has been adopted by Hinduism, as well as other world religions.
There are more than 100 different schools of yoga, which seeks to bring harmony to the mind and body. The most commonly practiced type in the United States is hatha yoga, which encompasses physical movements and postures, plus breathing techniques.
“It’s been a little discouraging that this program has taken on a negative tone,” said Duchscherer, who has taught in the Massena district for 11 years. “The intention was never to teach religion. … It was to introduce relaxation techniques.”
But Lucid believes the voluntary program causes stress and should be offered as an after-school activity.
“People have made it a religious war, and it’s not a religious war. We are basically concerned parents, saying we don’t want our children participating in something that could cause them more stress and confusion,” Lucid said.
Parents in Aspen, Colo., were successful in demanding the removal of yoga in the local curriculum in 2002. In Alabama, religious leaders pushed for a 1993 law prohibiting the teaching of yoga in schools, citing connections between yoga and Hindu religious training.
New York school allows yoga by another name
MASSENA, New York: A high school in the state of New York has won approval to offer students a voluntary yoga program — as long as it’s not called yoga.
Some local parents complained last month that a yoga program would promote Hinduism and violate the doctrine separating church and state, so Massena High School officials say they will now refer to the practice as “relaxation.”
…Two teachers began using yoga in their classrooms last year to relieve stress before exams and had approached the school board this fall about letting other teachers use breathing and relaxation techniques in their classes.
…One hundred schools in 26 states use yoga in the classroom to relieve stress, Reagan said.
V interesting excerpt from Yoga Studios Fighting State Taxes:
On November 1st, Missouri became the only state to enforce a sales tax on what many see as a spiritual pursuit — the practice of yoga. The debate between Missouri’s yoga community and the state, centers on whether yoga is a spiritual practice or just exercise.
If it’s one, it’s constitutionally protected and can’t be taxed. If it’s the other, Missouri’s cash-strapped budget has a new source of revenue.
On Monday, yoga studio owners pledged to fight for their students and educate state legislators about yoga’s Hindu spiritual roots.
Last year, a similar First Amendment battle broke out in Washington when that state began including yoga studios in a group of recreational organizations that had to charge customers a sales tax. Yoga practitioners, teachers and studio owners in Seattle and around the state came together to show legislators and the Department of Revenue that yoga was different from other physical activities. “They told us that yoga is more than just staying physically fit; it’s more of a spiritual and mental type of exercise,†said Mike Gowrylow of the Washington Department of Revenue. “After they educated us, we agreed they had a point.†The state decided to leave yoga studios alone.
With Great Respect to all ur views & opinions, i must say most of u miss the simplest point. & tht is to Love One Another .
Think of Love Like Respect Perhaps,.meh I openly call all religions , Businesses. hoarding our universal knowledge & putting a pricetag on wisdom to control or sell out to politicians & taken out by the media etc
Where ever u come frm, whatever ur belief,. Live your Life in the Now to the Fullest for the betterment of urself & ur Community & all tht you come too,. ie Sports,Hobbies,Fitness Regimes,Education,Living, Sharing & Teaching Truths not Beliefs. Like Free Energy,. Water & Energy Restructuring, Enmass Global Community Farming & water infrastructure, Hemp ‘relegalisation’. Sharing & bettering our world instead letting this beast of money rule us ,. oh i wish our leaders & rulers would get a grasp., qtr/half acre minimum per family,’ban’ medium-dense housing unless for retirement,. spread ppl over the earth n look after her, stop bunching in cities,. do tht which ye love nvr hurting any. Love ur self n all beings gr8 & small , The Earth ,. Our Creator & All Truth , Wisdom & Love,. & Live in the Now .
We Were not Born Yesterday ,. Nor will we die 2moro.
Do you use what youve bn thru & the knowledge uve amassed to better your world both in word & deed? or do you seperate, hate , judge alianate , all tht which u wish not to perceive? or do you Love n Let Love , Creating a Fractal Positive Current Life of Beauty?’
watever u do may u b led by ur heart of ur soul , lest ur ego lead u.
Abundant Light Love & Happiness 2 u who read this! 🙂
@Munish
Yoga is a part of Hindu religion and is inseparable from it. It is practical application of Hindu philosophy. For a more detailed write up see Sandeep’s following exhaustive blog post-
http://www.sandeepweb.com/2010/06/03/the-hindu-roots-of-yoga/
Do read: Rajiv Malhotra on A Hindu View of ‘Christian Yoga’
This is a good opportunity for Hindu community to stress the fact that ‘Yoga is intricately linked with Hinduism and cannot be seperated’.
Here is another article by Seem Shukla of HAF titled “Theft of Yoga”.
“So Hinduism, the religion that has no known origins or beginnings is now younger than yoga? What a ludicrous contention when the Yoga Sutras weren’t even composed until the 2nd Century BCE. These deniers seem to posit that Hinduism appropriated yoga so other religions may as well too! Hindus can only sadly shake their heads, as by this measure, soon we will read as to how karma, dharma and reincarnation–the very foundations of Hindu philosophy–are only ancient precepts that early Hindus of some era made their own.”
http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/aseem_shukla/2010/04/nearly_twenty_million_people_in.html