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	<title>Comments on: Homosexuality, Hinduism and Section 377</title>
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	<link>http://satyameva-jayate.org/2009/07/08/homosexuality-hinduism/</link>
	<description>Dedicated to "Bharat" and "Dharma"</description>
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		<title>By: pilidlao</title>
		<link>http://satyameva-jayate.org/2009/07/08/homosexuality-hinduism/comment-page-1/#comment-350807</link>
		<dc:creator>pilidlao</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2012 04:43:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://satyameva-jayate.org/?p=3664#comment-350807</guid>
		<description>A few points worthy of mention:
1. There is no doubt at all that anti-sodomy laws, among others, were motivated by Christian morality. For the court, however, however, it is important to remember that proper legal interpretation enjoins that weight be given to the purpose of the law rather than to what we might consider amounts to &quot;doing the right thing&quot;. 

2. Ruth Vanita&#039;s arguments were made by rights activists to claim that this was contrary to Indian tradition. Maybe but let us be quite clear: the impetus for this social movement has &lt;b&gt;not&lt;/b&gt; come from our traditions but rather from a movement that originated in Europe and now has an extended global presence. It is therefore a disingenuous claim.

3. One thing not to forget is what the implications are for other forms of proscribed sexual conduct. Should any sexual activity be regulated by the state at all or as S.Gurumurthy argued in Organiser a while ago, should be for society to police? This is a very important question because laws relating to adultery, obscenity, sex with children are all on the line here. This is also one of the issues that you will virtually never hear from activists. The decision to de-link homosexuality from others was a strategic one made by their counterparts in the West decades ago because that way, they saw a greater chance of popular acceptance. The same thing is now repeating itself here.

4. Lastly, do read &lt;a href=&quot;https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ncn7KdtR87uzwHJUt4ptEBejNx7WvSiyHpmbx-adf4E/edit&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt; detailed critique of the Delhi High Court judgment which was based almost entirely on extraneous and questionable premises. Whatever one thinks of homosexuality, the proper answer is a public debate and legislative change, not amendment through judicial sleight of hand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A few points worthy of mention:<br />
1. There is no doubt at all that anti-sodomy laws, among others, were motivated by Christian morality. For the court, however, however, it is important to remember that proper legal interpretation enjoins that weight be given to the purpose of the law rather than to what we might consider amounts to &#8220;doing the right thing&#8221;. </p>
<p>2. Ruth Vanita&#8217;s arguments were made by rights activists to claim that this was contrary to Indian tradition. Maybe but let us be quite clear: the impetus for this social movement has <b>not</b> come from our traditions but rather from a movement that originated in Europe and now has an extended global presence. It is therefore a disingenuous claim.</p>
<p>3. One thing not to forget is what the implications are for other forms of proscribed sexual conduct. Should any sexual activity be regulated by the state at all or as S.Gurumurthy argued in Organiser a while ago, should be for society to police? This is a very important question because laws relating to adultery, obscenity, sex with children are all on the line here. This is also one of the issues that you will virtually never hear from activists. The decision to de-link homosexuality from others was a strategic one made by their counterparts in the West decades ago because that way, they saw a greater chance of popular acceptance. The same thing is now repeating itself here.</p>
<p>4. Lastly, do read <a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ncn7KdtR87uzwHJUt4ptEBejNx7WvSiyHpmbx-adf4E/edit" rel="nofollow">this</a> detailed critique of the Delhi High Court judgment which was based almost entirely on extraneous and questionable premises. Whatever one thinks of homosexuality, the proper answer is a public debate and legislative change, not amendment through judicial sleight of hand.</p>
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		<title>By: Rohit</title>
		<link>http://satyameva-jayate.org/2009/07/08/homosexuality-hinduism/comment-page-1/#comment-38884</link>
		<dc:creator>Rohit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 09:08:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://satyameva-jayate.org/?p=3664#comment-38884</guid>
		<description>Very rare words used Jayadevan... Would have loved if you kept simple... bobbiting (I could not find the word in freedictionary)... To sum, I cannot reply back till you come up with replies to my comments in simple words so I now what position you are taking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very rare words used Jayadevan&#8230; Would have loved if you kept simple&#8230; bobbiting (I could not find the word in freedictionary)&#8230; To sum, I cannot reply back till you come up with replies to my comments in simple words so I now what position you are taking.</p>
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		<title>By: Jayadevan</title>
		<link>http://satyameva-jayate.org/2009/07/08/homosexuality-hinduism/comment-page-1/#comment-38857</link>
		<dc:creator>Jayadevan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 08:25:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://satyameva-jayate.org/?p=3664#comment-38857</guid>
		<description>@Rohit, 

Animals do exhibit homosexual behavior patterns.

As for punishment, could you be satisfied with bobbiting?

And, CC, there are many communities in India that are suffering the ill effects of consanguineous marriages - which have social sanction. So the idea we have of incest/proscribed relationships needs a rewriting from both sides, a toning down in Haryana, and a tightening up in South India. Again, this is a moral quagmire. Can we bring eugenics into play in a relationship like marriage? Deny love to two people because they are close relatives? Deny a woman the right to give birth to her lover&#039;s child? Give her the right to give birth to a deficient child doomed to misery in an unkind world? If you remember, amniocentesis came into being as a test to find out mainly if the foetus had genetic disorders - so we could decide to abort the mongoloid kid (or the daughter -the greatest birth defect). I am not particularly pro-life or pro-choice, but if it was my kid, I would not be able to make a decision either way if I had to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Rohit, </p>
<p>Animals do exhibit homosexual behavior patterns.</p>
<p>As for punishment, could you be satisfied with bobbiting?</p>
<p>And, CC, there are many communities in India that are suffering the ill effects of consanguineous marriages &#8211; which have social sanction. So the idea we have of incest/proscribed relationships needs a rewriting from both sides, a toning down in Haryana, and a tightening up in South India. Again, this is a moral quagmire. Can we bring eugenics into play in a relationship like marriage? Deny love to two people because they are close relatives? Deny a woman the right to give birth to her lover&#8217;s child? Give her the right to give birth to a deficient child doomed to misery in an unkind world? If you remember, amniocentesis came into being as a test to find out mainly if the foetus had genetic disorders &#8211; so we could decide to abort the mongoloid kid (or the daughter -the greatest birth defect). I am not particularly pro-life or pro-choice, but if it was my kid, I would not be able to make a decision either way if I had to.</p>
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		<title>By: Rohit</title>
		<link>http://satyameva-jayate.org/2009/07/08/homosexuality-hinduism/comment-page-1/#comment-38748</link>
		<dc:creator>Rohit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 10:27:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://satyameva-jayate.org/?p=3664#comment-38748</guid>
		<description># 30 is an update... Does it take ahead the discussion? Religious (Christians and Muslims) torchbearers are expected to oppose such rulings with unmatched vehemency.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p># 30 is an update&#8230; Does it take ahead the discussion? Religious (Christians and Muslims) torchbearers are expected to oppose such rulings with unmatched vehemency.</p>
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		<title>By: B Shantanu</title>
		<link>http://satyameva-jayate.org/2009/07/08/homosexuality-hinduism/comment-page-1/#comment-38628</link>
		<dc:creator>B Shantanu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 11:25:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://satyameva-jayate.org/?p=3664#comment-38628</guid>
		<description>As an aside, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ndtv.com/news/india/mizo_transvestites_draw_ire_of_church_leaders.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Mizo transvestites draw ire of church leaders&lt;/a&gt;:
 
Transvestites in Mizoram, who enjoys considerable freedom in society in respect of sartorial choices, are caught in a bind after the powerful local church opposes the Delhi High Court verdict legalising consensual gay sex.

The transvestites, known locally as Tuais, sport the very latest in female hot couture which till now no one objected, though the church authorities sometimes cast a glare.

But the court verdict has snapped their fine line of tolerance, or so it seems. The leaders of the local Presbyterian Church and some social organisations have said they are seeking ways to invoke the executive order of the colonial British rulers issued in 1909 which criminalised homosexuality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As an aside, <a href="http://www.ndtv.com/news/india/mizo_transvestites_draw_ire_of_church_leaders.php" rel="nofollow">Mizo transvestites draw ire of church leaders</a>:</p>
<p>Transvestites in Mizoram, who enjoys considerable freedom in society in respect of sartorial choices, are caught in a bind after the powerful local church opposes the Delhi High Court verdict legalising consensual gay sex.</p>
<p>The transvestites, known locally as Tuais, sport the very latest in female hot couture which till now no one objected, though the church authorities sometimes cast a glare.</p>
<p>But the court verdict has snapped their fine line of tolerance, or so it seems. The leaders of the local Presbyterian Church and some social organisations have said they are seeking ways to invoke the executive order of the colonial British rulers issued in 1909 which criminalised homosexuality.</p>
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