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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Reclaiming India&#8221; &#8211; excerpts</title>
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		<title>By: B Shantanu</title>
		<link>http://satyameva-jayate.org/2008/08/06/reclaiming-india/comment-page-1/#comment-14017</link>
		<dc:creator>B Shantanu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 20:27:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://satyameva-jayate.org/?p=600#comment-14017</guid>
		<description>Many of you will find this article interesting and thought-provoking:

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.think-israel.org/swamy.indianidentity.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Kashmir is the Defining Issue of Indian Identity&lt;/a&gt;  by Dr Subramaniam Swamy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many of you will find this article interesting and thought-provoking:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.think-israel.org/swamy.indianidentity.html" rel="nofollow">Kashmir is the Defining Issue of Indian Identity</a>  by Dr Subramaniam Swamy</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Dnyanesh</title>
		<link>http://satyameva-jayate.org/2008/08/06/reclaiming-india/comment-page-1/#comment-13375</link>
		<dc:creator>Dnyanesh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 09:09:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://satyameva-jayate.org/?p=600#comment-13375</guid>
		<description>A joke with a subtle message.

***

An ingenious example of speech and politics occurred recently in the United Nations Assembly that made the world community smile.

A representative from India began: &#039;Before beginning my talk I want to tell you something about Rishi Kashyap of Kashmir, after whom Kashmir is named.

When he struck a rock and it brought forth water, he thought, &#039;What a good opportunity to have a bath.&#039;

He removed his clothes, put them aside on the rock and entered the water.

When he got out and wanted to dress, his clothes had vanished. A Pakistani had stolen them.&#039;

The Pakistani representative jumped up furiously and shouted, &#039;What are you talking about? The Pakistanis weren&#039;t there then.&#039;

The Indian representative smiled and said, &#039;And now that we have made that clear, I will begin my speech.&#039; 

***
 
  
And they say Kashmir 
belongs to them………………………………………..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A joke with a subtle message.</p>
<p>***</p>
<p>An ingenious example of speech and politics occurred recently in the United Nations Assembly that made the world community smile.</p>
<p>A representative from India began: &#8216;Before beginning my talk I want to tell you something about Rishi Kashyap of Kashmir, after whom Kashmir is named.</p>
<p>When he struck a rock and it brought forth water, he thought, &#8216;What a good opportunity to have a bath.&#8217;</p>
<p>He removed his clothes, put them aside on the rock and entered the water.</p>
<p>When he got out and wanted to dress, his clothes had vanished. A Pakistani had stolen them.&#8217;</p>
<p>The Pakistani representative jumped up furiously and shouted, &#8216;What are you talking about? The Pakistanis weren&#8217;t there then.&#8217;</p>
<p>The Indian representative smiled and said, &#8216;And now that we have made that clear, I will begin my speech.&#8217; </p>
<p>***</p>
<p>And they say Kashmir<br />
belongs to them………………………………………..</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: v.c. krishnan</title>
		<link>http://satyameva-jayate.org/2008/08/06/reclaiming-india/comment-page-1/#comment-10835</link>
		<dc:creator>v.c. krishnan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 17:14:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://satyameva-jayate.org/?p=600#comment-10835</guid>
		<description>Dear Si,
There is nothing special in the obfuscation of thoughts by the puerile thinking bigot. Many of these authors of articles try to be as objectively obfuscating as possible as otherwise they will not get their articles published by this psuedo secular Hindu bashing Christian Evangilist media.
The supposed to be Gandhian methods can work with an educated and selfrespecting human being, not the Islamic type. They may be educated in the best of the universities, articulate, very well read but the fundamental flaw is that their thinking is low down and extremely puerile as they cannot accept a thought which is different from them.  
If these are the type of people these authors are direcing their arguments toward, sadly it will be like talking to deaf man.
The speciousm arguments of how the yatris are treated by the people of the valley fall short of stupidity as then a meagre 38 acres for TEMPROARY, shelters should be a moot point of conflagration for these Kasmiris
The underlying factor was that these Kashmiris bet on the fact that as usual the Jammuites will fall for these type of rhetoric and stand aside as the Hindus are belittled, and when they ascertained that it was not falling in line with that type of thinking they went back to the shrill talk of all secularism, ji&#039;s like Gandhi, Nehru etc.
When even that is not working they talk of communalim of the BJP. What secularism by these Pseudos!!!
The seculrists are now understanding that all their english and bluster of British secularism and Ameican possible noble prizes are withering away in front of them as the ASB action committee cares two figs for all this big talk.
The Hindus want action not noble peace prizes and tall rememberances by people. They do not want to become history to be discussed in a few years by the National Geographic!!
Regards,
vck</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Si,<br />
There is nothing special in the obfuscation of thoughts by the puerile thinking bigot. Many of these authors of articles try to be as objectively obfuscating as possible as otherwise they will not get their articles published by this psuedo secular Hindu bashing Christian Evangilist media.<br />
The supposed to be Gandhian methods can work with an educated and selfrespecting human being, not the Islamic type. They may be educated in the best of the universities, articulate, very well read but the fundamental flaw is that their thinking is low down and extremely puerile as they cannot accept a thought which is different from them.<br />
If these are the type of people these authors are direcing their arguments toward, sadly it will be like talking to deaf man.<br />
The speciousm arguments of how the yatris are treated by the people of the valley fall short of stupidity as then a meagre 38 acres for TEMPROARY, shelters should be a moot point of conflagration for these Kasmiris<br />
The underlying factor was that these Kashmiris bet on the fact that as usual the Jammuites will fall for these type of rhetoric and stand aside as the Hindus are belittled, and when they ascertained that it was not falling in line with that type of thinking they went back to the shrill talk of all secularism, ji&#8217;s like Gandhi, Nehru etc.<br />
When even that is not working they talk of communalim of the BJP. What secularism by these Pseudos!!!<br />
The seculrists are now understanding that all their english and bluster of British secularism and Ameican possible noble prizes are withering away in front of them as the ASB action committee cares two figs for all this big talk.<br />
The Hindus want action not noble peace prizes and tall rememberances by people. They do not want to become history to be discussed in a few years by the National Geographic!!<br />
Regards,<br />
vck</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ashutosh</title>
		<link>http://satyameva-jayate.org/2008/08/06/reclaiming-india/comment-page-1/#comment-10784</link>
		<dc:creator>Ashutosh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Aug 2008 17:20:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://satyameva-jayate.org/?p=600#comment-10784</guid>
		<description>*** COMMENT EDITED ***

Dear Shantanu,

Attached is an article that has appeared on Rediff by a B S Raghavan. My comments are in italics and the emphasis is mine. The language used is very erudite but is pseudo-emotive and the underlying tone and subtext is not only arrogant but subversive. Note the unique almost simultaneous usage of Wodehouse-ian and Victorian – in the emotive phrase –“concatenation of depressing events, unfolding like a Greek tragedy” …..
 
I am amazed by the supposition of Mr Raghavan on what the role of a Governor ought to be. This is a very arrogant and dangerous view of Governance albeit couched in a language that attempts to mask the arrogance very cleverly. 
 
Mr Raghavan seems to believe that a State Governor’s role/image is that of an animal at pasture not that of a conscience keeper. If this is not arrogance then I am willing to give the writer of this piece the benefit of the doubt of ignorance.
 
Without further ado….
 

&quot;Jammu is not for burning- B S Raghavan&quot;, August 07, 2008
...
The BJP, in any event, has a much greater stake than any other party, in not letting the kind of venom spouted by the spokespersons of the Samiti while appearing on national television news channels sticking to it as well. The BJP must realise that it is sure to antagonise all the right-thinking people by the readiness and the aggressive tone with which its votaries have been justifying the agitation. &lt;em&gt;( Presumably, all the right thinking people believe that the agitation or expression of outrage is not justified/ un constitutional?? Or is it simply the case that in your pseudo-secular view- Hindu Expression = Spouting Venom/ Rabid Rantings and Muslim Expression = Expressing Opinion, Mr Raghavan?)&lt;/em&gt;

The revoltingly rabid rantings by the Samiti members, to the extent of demanding that the Muslims of the Valley better migrate to Pakistan and stay there, has all the potential, if allowed to continue unchecked, of putting the Amarnath yatris at grave risk, if not setting India ablaze in a communal conflagration. &lt;strong&gt;The yatris need to be urgently saved from their friends.&lt;/strong&gt; (&lt;em&gt;Pray who are these friends- Local Kashmiris? BJP insinuators? Lt. Gen Sinha?  Or is Mr Raghavan trying overt obfuscation? Or simply does not know who it is he is writing about, himself?&lt;/em&gt;)

Compared to the incendiary declamations by the so-called protagonists of Amarnath yatris, the representatives of the Muslim outfits of J&amp;K, whether main or fringe, have shown commendable moderation, recalling how for more than a 100 years Kashmiris have treated the yatris with amity and respect, and given them protection and all the needed facilities, and how even now they are willing to extend the same hospitality. (&lt;em&gt;This is outrageous- after the massacre initiated from 1989, with hardly any Kashmiri Pandits now remaining in the valley and with the recent venom spewed out by Shri Omar Abdullah in Parliament, do you expect us to believe that the Islamists in Kashmir whose entire ideology is based on purging Hindus off Kashmir are “willing to extend the same hospitality” to the Yatris? And what do you mean by “hospitality” – the land that the yatris tread on is sovereign Indian territory not a foreign land where “hospitality” has to be extended. It is a fundamental right of the citizens of India. Or is it the case that in your pseudo-secular mind Kashmir is foreign land?&lt;/em&gt;)
   
...
The Samiti people, however, vociferously deny there being any such blockade or their having given a call for it, but blockade or not, trucks carrying goods are held up in their hundreds on the only highway from the valley to the outside world. The visuals are there for all to see, and there is no reason why television news channels and media reports should indulge in misrepresentation. (&lt;em&gt;You seem to have forgotten the visuals of the last 20 years, Mr Raghavan or has the sustained 20 year old suffering of the Kashmiri Pandits given you a “selective numbness of eyesight”. A blockade of six weeks inspires you to use such language- I shall be interested in your choice of vocabulary (if and) when I might get the privilege of reading  your article on the last 20 years of outrage perpetrated on the Kashmiri Pandits.&lt;/em&gt;)
...
The whole concatenation of depressing events, unfolding like a Greek tragedy for all of six weeks, inflicting such human suffering and leading to loss of precious lives, and draining away the energy of the people and governments along wasteful and destructive channels could have easily been avoided if only both the state and central governments at the highest levels had had the leadership, imagination and sensitivity to gauge the delicate nature of the crisis at hand and taken effective measures to address it at the first sign of trouble. (&lt;em&gt;How would you articulate the mass killing and obliteration of Hindus from the Kashmir valley for the last 20 years? Were those events equally “ delicate”, “wasteful” and “destructive” enough to your taste?&lt;/em&gt;)

It is puzzling that the Congress-led UPA government should have forgotten the shining examples set by Mahatma Gandhi who never hesitated to meet a problem head on whether it was Noakhali, or Kolkata or Delhi, or by Jawaharlal Nehru, Lal Bahadur Shatri and Indira Gandhi who were prompt to visit any disturbed part of the country personally and apply the healing touch by their consoling presence. (&lt;em&gt;Really Interesting take- on personality politics. Hypothesizing from a historic analogy is the last refuge of the failing theologian- Mr Raghavan. Are you one?  Now, if in the modern day India, it were to emerge that this so called “healing touch approach” did not deliver the goods, then what diagnosis would Mr Raghavan make? I would hazard a guess along lines such as  “Society no longer has respect for its leaders?” Or “today’s leaders are not like the Mahatma or Panditji or Shastriji?”  Or would Mr Raghavan be so cynical as to say that “these days all these politicians do is make a one day dash- with huge media machinery in tow- say a few soothing words and go back to conducting their business of the day”&lt;/em&gt; )
 
*******
&lt;em&gt;
Mr Raghavan, I respectfully submit a view that in expressing your “puzzlement” over the ineptitude/ blind sighted-ness of the UPA Government, you are trying- albeit very weakly and unsuccessfully – to give your thoughts and views in this article a sense of balance. In the absence of the last paragraph- and in my view, an ill advised paragraph- this article would have appeared too one-sided a pillorying of the SASB and the Hindu uprising in J&amp;K and rather condescending about what the role of a Governor ought to be. 
But take heart, the last paragraph also might get you some brownie points in the secular-ist media. If that’s what you want. 
 
Sadly, we (and I use the we as a representative of a young, educated, confident and successful Indian) see through it- quite clearly.   I am not pleased or overjoyed by the events of the last six weeks- in fact I am saddened, and my current thoughts are on the lines of “why did anyone not see the plight of the Kashmiri Hindus for so long?” “ How did India fail them so spectacularly and for so long?”  “How could we avoid such a situation to manifest itself again in the next 20 years?- How should Indian polity engage with Kashmiri Indian citizenry and the Indian citizenry at large in the next few months? How should the really delicate message to the Islamists- the perpetrators of outrage against the Kashmiri Hindus- to reflect on their actions of the last 20 years be articulated? I believe, we do not yet have an answer but know what the answer ought not to be- The answer ought not to be retaliation neither is it in radically affirmative action to “redress” the balance. The answer lies somewhere is a process of common healing and reconciling to the facts- the facts are not pleasant. This is the delicate-ness of the situation.&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*** COMMENT EDITED ***</p>
<p>Dear Shantanu,</p>
<p>Attached is an article that has appeared on Rediff by a B S Raghavan. My comments are in italics and the emphasis is mine. The language used is very erudite but is pseudo-emotive and the underlying tone and subtext is not only arrogant but subversive. Note the unique almost simultaneous usage of Wodehouse-ian and Victorian – in the emotive phrase –“concatenation of depressing events, unfolding like a Greek tragedy” …..</p>
<p>I am amazed by the supposition of Mr Raghavan on what the role of a Governor ought to be. This is a very arrogant and dangerous view of Governance albeit couched in a language that attempts to mask the arrogance very cleverly. </p>
<p>Mr Raghavan seems to believe that a State Governor’s role/image is that of an animal at pasture not that of a conscience keeper. If this is not arrogance then I am willing to give the writer of this piece the benefit of the doubt of ignorance.</p>
<p>Without further ado….</p>
<p>&#8220;Jammu is not for burning- B S Raghavan&#8221;, August 07, 2008<br />
&#8230;<br />
The BJP, in any event, has a much greater stake than any other party, in not letting the kind of venom spouted by the spokespersons of the Samiti while appearing on national television news channels sticking to it as well. The BJP must realise that it is sure to antagonise all the right-thinking people by the readiness and the aggressive tone with which its votaries have been justifying the agitation. <em>( Presumably, all the right thinking people believe that the agitation or expression of outrage is not justified/ un constitutional?? Or is it simply the case that in your pseudo-secular view- Hindu Expression = Spouting Venom/ Rabid Rantings and Muslim Expression = Expressing Opinion, Mr Raghavan?)</em></p>
<p>The revoltingly rabid rantings by the Samiti members, to the extent of demanding that the Muslims of the Valley better migrate to Pakistan and stay there, has all the potential, if allowed to continue unchecked, of putting the Amarnath yatris at grave risk, if not setting India ablaze in a communal conflagration. <strong>The yatris need to be urgently saved from their friends.</strong> (<em>Pray who are these friends- Local Kashmiris? BJP insinuators? Lt. Gen Sinha?  Or is Mr Raghavan trying overt obfuscation? Or simply does not know who it is he is writing about, himself?</em>)</p>
<p>Compared to the incendiary declamations by the so-called protagonists of Amarnath yatris, the representatives of the Muslim outfits of J&amp;K, whether main or fringe, have shown commendable moderation, recalling how for more than a 100 years Kashmiris have treated the yatris with amity and respect, and given them protection and all the needed facilities, and how even now they are willing to extend the same hospitality. (<em>This is outrageous- after the massacre initiated from 1989, with hardly any Kashmiri Pandits now remaining in the valley and with the recent venom spewed out by Shri Omar Abdullah in Parliament, do you expect us to believe that the Islamists in Kashmir whose entire ideology is based on purging Hindus off Kashmir are “willing to extend the same hospitality” to the Yatris? And what do you mean by “hospitality” – the land that the yatris tread on is sovereign Indian territory not a foreign land where “hospitality” has to be extended. It is a fundamental right of the citizens of India. Or is it the case that in your pseudo-secular mind Kashmir is foreign land?</em>)</p>
<p>&#8230;<br />
The Samiti people, however, vociferously deny there being any such blockade or their having given a call for it, but blockade or not, trucks carrying goods are held up in their hundreds on the only highway from the valley to the outside world. The visuals are there for all to see, and there is no reason why television news channels and media reports should indulge in misrepresentation. (<em>You seem to have forgotten the visuals of the last 20 years, Mr Raghavan or has the sustained 20 year old suffering of the Kashmiri Pandits given you a “selective numbness of eyesight”. A blockade of six weeks inspires you to use such language- I shall be interested in your choice of vocabulary (if and) when I might get the privilege of reading  your article on the last 20 years of outrage perpetrated on the Kashmiri Pandits.</em>)<br />
&#8230;<br />
The whole concatenation of depressing events, unfolding like a Greek tragedy for all of six weeks, inflicting such human suffering and leading to loss of precious lives, and draining away the energy of the people and governments along wasteful and destructive channels could have easily been avoided if only both the state and central governments at the highest levels had had the leadership, imagination and sensitivity to gauge the delicate nature of the crisis at hand and taken effective measures to address it at the first sign of trouble. (<em>How would you articulate the mass killing and obliteration of Hindus from the Kashmir valley for the last 20 years? Were those events equally “ delicate”, “wasteful” and “destructive” enough to your taste?</em>)</p>
<p>It is puzzling that the Congress-led UPA government should have forgotten the shining examples set by Mahatma Gandhi who never hesitated to meet a problem head on whether it was Noakhali, or Kolkata or Delhi, or by Jawaharlal Nehru, Lal Bahadur Shatri and Indira Gandhi who were prompt to visit any disturbed part of the country personally and apply the healing touch by their consoling presence. (<em>Really Interesting take- on personality politics. Hypothesizing from a historic analogy is the last refuge of the failing theologian- Mr Raghavan. Are you one?  Now, if in the modern day India, it were to emerge that this so called “healing touch approach” did not deliver the goods, then what diagnosis would Mr Raghavan make? I would hazard a guess along lines such as  “Society no longer has respect for its leaders?” Or “today’s leaders are not like the Mahatma or Panditji or Shastriji?”  Or would Mr Raghavan be so cynical as to say that “these days all these politicians do is make a one day dash- with huge media machinery in tow- say a few soothing words and go back to conducting their business of the day”</em> )</p>
<p>*******<br />
<em><br />
Mr Raghavan, I respectfully submit a view that in expressing your “puzzlement” over the ineptitude/ blind sighted-ness of the UPA Government, you are trying- albeit very weakly and unsuccessfully – to give your thoughts and views in this article a sense of balance. In the absence of the last paragraph- and in my view, an ill advised paragraph- this article would have appeared too one-sided a pillorying of the SASB and the Hindu uprising in J&amp;K and rather condescending about what the role of a Governor ought to be.<br />
But take heart, the last paragraph also might get you some brownie points in the secular-ist media. If that’s what you want. </p>
<p>Sadly, we (and I use the we as a representative of a young, educated, confident and successful Indian) see through it- quite clearly.   I am not pleased or overjoyed by the events of the last six weeks- in fact I am saddened, and my current thoughts are on the lines of “why did anyone not see the plight of the Kashmiri Hindus for so long?” “ How did India fail them so spectacularly and for so long?”  “How could we avoid such a situation to manifest itself again in the next 20 years?- How should Indian polity engage with Kashmiri Indian citizenry and the Indian citizenry at large in the next few months? How should the really delicate message to the Islamists- the perpetrators of outrage against the Kashmiri Hindus- to reflect on their actions of the last 20 years be articulated? I believe, we do not yet have an answer but know what the answer ought not to be- The answer ought not to be retaliation neither is it in radically affirmative action to “redress” the balance. The answer lies somewhere is a process of common healing and reconciling to the facts- the facts are not pleasant. This is the delicate-ness of the situation.</em></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: B Shantanu</title>
		<link>http://satyameva-jayate.org/2008/08/06/reclaiming-india/comment-page-1/#comment-10709</link>
		<dc:creator>B Shantanu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Aug 2008 06:21:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://satyameva-jayate.org/?p=600#comment-10709</guid>
		<description>A short exceprt from &lt;a href=&quot;http://worldmonitor.wordpress.com/2008/07/07/islamism-shakes-kashmir/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Islamism shakes Kashmir&lt;/a&gt; - S. Chaulia, Asia Times:

&lt;blockquote&gt;

The most perverse sign of bigoted Islamism running the roost in the Kashmir Valley is a report that shrines are being built to glorify jihadi groups as a retort to the Amarnath temple imbroglio. &lt;strong&gt;The first-ever shrine to the Lashkar-e-Toiba has just been inaugurated in a village near the town of Ganderbal in memory of two Pakistani holy warriors who died fighting the Indian army.&lt;/strong&gt; According to The Hindu, local businesspersons who erected this monument declared, &quot;Here was India conspiring to seize our land and hand it over to infidels [Hindu pilgrims visiting the Amarnath temple], and here were these two foreigners who had given their lives to save Islam in Kashmir.&quot;

The agenda of &quot;saving Islam&quot; from alleged threats is growing stronger in Jammu and Kashmir, even though its Muslims enjoy constitutionally guaranteed religious freedom. Terrorist violence in Kashmir may wax and wane and state-level elections may come and go every five years, but the seeds of Islamist hatred continue to sprout and augur ill for peace. The liberation of Kashmir from jihadi mentality remains an uphill task. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

***

S. Chaulia is a researcher on international affairs at the Maxwell School of Citizenship at Syracuse University, New York. 
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A short exceprt from <a href="http://worldmonitor.wordpress.com/2008/07/07/islamism-shakes-kashmir/" rel="nofollow">Islamism shakes Kashmir</a> &#8211; S. Chaulia, Asia Times:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>The most perverse sign of bigoted Islamism running the roost in the Kashmir Valley is a report that shrines are being built to glorify jihadi groups as a retort to the Amarnath temple imbroglio. <strong>The first-ever shrine to the Lashkar-e-Toiba has just been inaugurated in a village near the town of Ganderbal in memory of two Pakistani holy warriors who died fighting the Indian army.</strong> According to The Hindu, local businesspersons who erected this monument declared, &#8220;Here was India conspiring to seize our land and hand it over to infidels [Hindu pilgrims visiting the Amarnath temple], and here were these two foreigners who had given their lives to save Islam in Kashmir.&#8221;</p>
<p>The agenda of &#8220;saving Islam&#8221; from alleged threats is growing stronger in Jammu and Kashmir, even though its Muslims enjoy constitutionally guaranteed religious freedom. Terrorist violence in Kashmir may wax and wane and state-level elections may come and go every five years, but the seeds of Islamist hatred continue to sprout and augur ill for peace. The liberation of Kashmir from jihadi mentality remains an uphill task. </p></blockquote>
<p>***</p>
<p>S. Chaulia is a researcher on international affairs at the Maxwell School of Citizenship at Syracuse University, New York.</p>
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