The other side of Kandhamal…
Came across this very well-researched article last week that looks at the other side of the story of Kandhamal.
It is written by Shri P Chand Dogra, a retired IPS officer who personally spent time in Kandhamal earlier this year to find out the “truth” of what happened in the district.
Shri Chand Dogra makes a few interesting points in the article, namely:
1.�Hindu households and dwellings were also attacked during the violence and in much larger numbers – a fact that has been overlooked by most of mainstream media.
2. The roots of the problem lie in social issues rather than religious ones.
There had been simmering tension in the area because of the demands by Panas (Schedules Castes who converted to Christianity and thus�lost their place in the reserved quota) to get themselves categorised as a Scheduled Tribe�(and thus regain the benefits of reservation). The claim for Scheduled Tribe was made on the basis of a dialect -�”Kui” – that they spoke.
This “claim” was contested by the Kondhs (the original Scheduled Tribe in the area) who happened�to be Hindus and were apprehensive of their “rights” being curtailed and taken away by Panas who�were converted Christians (Shades of the Gujjar agitation here?)
The Panas claim to a quota was accepted by the Central Government but contested by the�State Govt who maintained that “Kui is a dialect and not a tribe” and that the�Panas’ claim�was not based on historical and anthropological facts.
The matter soon became politicised and was picked up by�the Congress and an NGO called World Vision.
3. Another issue that added fuel to this was the increasing frustration amongst the�Kondhs (original tribals from the area)that in spite of court orders asking for restoration of land belonging to them, about�22 acres continued to be “allegedly under illegal occupation of the Church and the Christians”.
4.�Shri Chand Dogra also suggests that it would be wise for the government�to scrutinize a little more closely the activities of several charitable organisations that operate in the region. As per the annual report of the Ministry of Home Affairs under the head “Receipt of Foreign Contributions by Voluntary Associations”, although “Maintenance of priests/preachers /other religious functionaries is the 15th on the list of purposes”, it still�receives�$21 million of all foreign funding!
See this NDTV report on Kandhamal which makes no mention of Hindu houses being burnt or being targeted.
See this post that looks�at issues surrounding the current system of reservations and quotas and this post that offers a few fresh ideas.
* The article in full:�”Violence in Kandhamal –The other side of the story” by P Chand Dogra, published in the Organiser,�Mar ’08.
“an NGO called World Vision.”
This is not an NGO – it’s a Christian religious group seeking to harvest souls….
Chandra: Thanks and well spotted.
I believe this is the charity mentioned above:
http://www.worldvision.org.uk/server.php?show=nav.11
I came across this interesting website. There is a new initiative to protect non-exclusive religions around the world. Please do take a look.
Thanks
Sorry forgot the link:
http://protectreligions.org/
Its time, christian missionaries must be declared as Terrorist Organization, banned and chrushed once for all. Enough is enough. This is called 85% Hindu majority nation, where Hindus get massacred by the christian missionary terrorrists one side and Jihadi terrorists on the other. It must come to an end soon, before we all Hindus get perished.
One nation will not remain one nation, if we tolerate and keep watching silently these anti-Hindu crusades and Jihads. HIndu Nation will be destroyed to create Jihadistan and Roman Republics.
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Anti-conversion swami, 4 others shot dead
Subhasis Mohanty | Bhubaneswar
Late night attack on ashram in Orissa’s Kandhamal
Swami Laxmananda Saraswati, the 80-year-old monk who spearheaded the anti-conversion movement in Orissa’s tribal dominated areas for decades, was shot dead at his Jalespata Ashram under Tumudibandha block in Kandhamal district late Saturday night.
Reports reaching Bhubaneswar said a group of 20 to 25 people, armed with guns, barged into the ashram at 9.35 pm and attacked him. They lobbed a hand-grenade and fired indiscriminately. Swami Laxmananda Saraswati and four others who lived in the ashram died on the spot. Among them was a woman.
Director-General of Police Gopal Nanda confirmed the murderous attack on Swami Laxmananda Saraswati’s ashram. The police suspect the killers to be Maoists. The district administration has mobilised police force and rushed CRPF companies to the spot. The District Collector and the SP have also rushed to Tumudibandha to take stock of the situation.
Widescale violence is feared in Orissa. People have started resorting to road blockade to ventilate their anger in different parts of the State. People in Dhenkanal district came out openly and blocked the roads.
An alert has been issued and all District Collectors have been asked to maintain strict vigil.
Swami Laxmananda Saraswati had received a letter, threatening that he would be kidnapped from his Chakapada Ashram in Kandhamal district in the next seven days. Ashram authorities received the letter on Friday. It had been posted from Barinipur post office.
They also filed an FIR on Friday. The letter-writer had identified himself as a member of the ‘Pahari Group’.
Viswa Hindu Parishad general secretary Gouri Prasad Rath had subsequently sought increased security cover for Swami Laxmananda Saraswati.
Before the police could react, he was shot dead.
Swami Laxmananda Saraswati came to tribal-dominated Kandhamal in 1966. Since then he has been leading a campaign against conversion activities of Christian missionaries. He has also been in the forefront of the campaign against cow-slaughter. It was because of his sustained efforts that thousands of tribals who had embraced Christianity returned to the Hindu fold.
Later, he set up an ashram at Chakpada and a Kanya Ashram (girls residential school) at Jalespata in Kandhmal district. He spent his life promoting literacy and combating conversions in this tribal-dominated district. For this, he earned the wrath of Christian missionaries and was attacked on several occasions.
On December 25, 2007, he was attacked by a section of the Christian community and his security guard was severely injured. Later, clashes erupted in Phulbani and other areas.
Curfew was imposed in Baliguda, Daringbadi and Brahmani Gaon as well as the district headquarters of Kandhamal for more than a month to restore peace. Swami Laxmananda Saraswati’s murder could give rise to tension.
Reacting sharply to the ghastly incident, the State BJP president said the culprits should be arrested immediately. The Vishwa Hindu Parishad expressed shock over the killings.
The Pioneer article
and Swami Lakshmanananda, four others killed
Looks like there were more than just “Maoists” involved in the attack:
Swami Laxmanananda Saraswati, A Man with a Mission
Swami Laxmanananda Saraswati, who was killed by unknown assailants at Jaleshpata Kanya Ashram on Saturday night, was a man of strong determination and ideology. His message was loud and clear – “Believe in your religion, don’t disband it”. He never used double standards. He preached what he believed and always stuck to that.
read here.
http://www.orissatimes.net/
Widespread anger in Kandhamal
…The police have arrested Pradesh Kumar Das, an employee of the World Vision, a Christian Charity, from Khadagpur while escaping from the district at Buguda. In another drive, two other persons Vikram Digal and William Digal have been arrested from the house of Lal Digal, a local militant Christian, from Nuasahi at Gunjibadi, Nuagaan. They have admitted to having joined a group of 28 other assailants.
http://www.dailypioneer.com/indexn12.asp?main_variable=front%5Fpage&file_name=story5%2Etxt&counter_img=5
From: Why Kandhamal is a battleground over conversion
Dear Sir,
It has been admitted even by the Christians that religious conversions are the cause of these problems. It was very clearly spelt out by a Minister in the BJD led government that there were no problems as long as the Adivasis and tribals were left alone and the “HINDUS” left them alone.
When the XTIANS came out with there “TRUE GOD” concept through bribe and chicanery, for the tribals even a coke bottle is matter of worship, the problems became multifold.
The Xtians wanted do destroy the edifice on which the Adivasi and Tribals lived; The swamiji wanted to let them continue with tit; The christians could not “HARVEST” as their leader a non Indian wanted the indian Xtians to do and hence the problem.
It is neither economic or development. It is the destruction of a way of life that led to this problem.
Regards,
vck
From: A Wrong Message, 1st Sept ’08
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My comment:
Where are the educational institutions for Hindus in Bharat (that is India)? Christian call the institutions run by them as christian institutions, muslim-run call muslim institutions (under banner of minority). So, they are religion-based institutins, they are not secular.
Remaining all insitutions comes under Secular tag. Hindus are easy targets to fool, coerce and intimidate.
Where are the Hindu insitutions? Why Hindus does not have any insitutions to call them as Hindu Insitutions? Its time, all institutions outside christian and muslim domain, must be declared as Hindu Instituions. We must call them as Hindu Insitutions. Hindus must learn to get their right. Either Secularism for all, else it must be dumped.
Bharat
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Fully agree with you. We need to fight for secularism as was promised at the time of forming our nation. Passivity of the so-called majority community in the name of being secular has led to the organized communities getting away with with the most unsecular and anti-Indian nation activities.
Extracts from Offstumped’s recent post:
Offstumped will now detail the Evangelical Project in Orissa and the foreign entities behind it.
To understand this Project better, Offstumped draws the attention of its readers to foreign evangelocal entities “World Encounter†and LCMC (a Lutheran Church Congregation). The LCMC has a quarterly newsletter and in its edition for the first quarter of 2007 , the LCMC newsletter carried a detailed 1 page story focused on Orissa where it invited congregations in the U.S.A for what it called
For a life-transforming experience, join World Encounter, in association with LCMC, on a short term outreach to India October 5-22, 2007. Orissa Evangelical Fellowship (OEF), an LCMC association of churches in India, has invited congregations in the US to encourage them in their efforts to share the Good News with the unreached people of India.
What’s interesting is why this project zeroed in on Orissa of all places, in its own words.
The people of Orissa are primarily tribal/animists and Hindus who worship spirits, trees, rocks, and other objects of nature. The heart of the OEF vision is focused on church planting, discipleship, and leadership…Groups of believers worship inhomes and thatch-roofed churches. In the midst of opposi-tion to the Gospel,they are committed to reaching their Hindu neighbors and families with the Good News that has transformed their lives .
This precisely is the problem in Orissa – aggressive proselytization with foreign funding and support thats invasive of people’s privacy with a clear objective of “planting churchesâ€, expanding to “new villages†and evangelizing to “Hindu Neighborsâ€.
This not about the practice of Christianity in Orissa.
This is about changing the social demographics and the fabric of society in poor rural pockets of Orissa, one village, one neighborhood at a time.
To appreciate how well prepared this Evangelical Project in its targetting of Orissa, consider this compilation of target Villages in Orissa by geo-cordinates.
To further appreciate the sophistication and subterfuge with which proselytization is conducted in Orissa in the post-Staines era read this blog post by a Brian Zahnd, founder and senior pastor of Word of Life Church, a 4,000 member congregation in St. Joseph, Missouri.
I was never allowed to sit on the platform and was never introduced as a preacher. P.G. would say that he and his wife, Lilly, and his daughter, Grace, were the preachers. They would get up, speak for five minutes, and then P.G. would say he had a friend he wanted to introduce and bring a “greeting.†P.G. would introduce me as a friend bringing a greeting, and then as he handed me the microphone, he would whisper, “Preach for an hour and a half.†We did this twice a day and every evening. So three times a day I would bring a 90 minute “greeting.†I was told the police were wondering, “Who is this greeting man?†Because several thousand local people were coming at night, the evening meetings took on the tone of an evangelistic event. The last three nights I preached strong evangelistic messages….
The Orissa Government maintains a list of foreign contributions to NGOs in Orissa. The list is worth reading to appreciate how much money was pumped from International sources to further the evangelical project in Orissa during the earlier part of this decade – 2.3 crores to Orissa Fellowship Ministry, 12 crores for Cuttack Roman Catholic Diocese, 2.73 crore for Indian Evangelical Association, 1.4 crores for Brethren in Christ Church, 2.8crores for East India Mission, 4.4 crores for Joypore Evangelical Lutheran Church … the list goes on.
Mahatma Gandhi on Conversion
Gandhiji was not awarded the Nobel peace prize because he refused to be converted. Now that missionaries are spreading their tentacles far and wide in India converting people by allurement, inducement and fraud (In the north east killings and threats are becoming commonplace) Gandhiji’s message is all the more relevant in understanding and reacting to this problem. Missionary Terrorism will become as dangerous as Islamic terrorism if ignored. Please read & distribute.
Compiled by Swami Aksharananda
(Track No. 010119.1, Jan. 19, 2001)
I Call Myself a Sanatani Hindu
I call myself a Sanatani Hindu, because I believe in the Vedas, the Upanishads, the Puranas, and all that goes by the name of Hindu scripture, and therefore in avataras and rebirth; I believe in the varnashrama dharma in a sense, in my opinion strictly Vedic but not in its presently popular and distorted crude sense; I believe in the protection of cow. I do not disbelieve in murti puja. (Young India: June 10, 1921)
Why I am Not a Convert
Hinduism as I know it entirely satisfies my soul, fills my whole being. When doubts haunt me, when disappointments stare me in the face, and when I see not one ray of light on the horizon, I turn to the Bhagavad Gita, and find a verse to comfort me; and I immediately begin to smile in the midst of overwhelming sorrow. My life has been full of tragedies and if they have not left any visible and indelible effect on me, I owe it to the teachings of the Bhagavad Gita. (Young India: June 8, 1925)
I Disbelieve in Conversion
I disbelieve in the conversion of one person by another. My effort should never to be to undermine another’s faith. This implies belief in the truth of all religions and, therefore, respect for them. It implies true humility. (Young India: April 23, 1931)
Conversion: Impediment to Peace
It is impossible for me to reconcile myself to the idea of conversion after the style that goes on in India and elsewhere today. It is an error which is perhaps the greatest impediment to the world’s progress toward peace. Why should a Christian want to convert a Hindu to Christianity? Why should he not be satisfied if the Hindu is a good or godly man? (Harijan: January 30, 1937)
No Such Thing as Conversion
I believe that there is no such thing as conversion from one faith to another in the accepted sense of the word. It is a highly personal matter for the individual and his God. I may not have any design upon my neighbour as to his faith which I must honour even as I honour my own. Having reverently studied the scriptures of the world I could no more think of asking a Christian or a Musalman, or a Parsi or a Jew to change his faith than I would think of changing my own. (Harijan: September 9, 1935)
No Conversion Designs Upon Me
I am not interested in weaning you from Christianity and making you Hindu, and I do not relish your designs upon me, if you had any, to convert me to Christianity. I would also dispute your claim that Christianity is the only true religion. (Harijan: June 3, 1937)
Conversion
Conversion must not mean denationalization. Conversion should mean a definite giving up of the evil of the old, adoption of all the good of the new and a scrupulous avoidance of everything evil in the new. Conversion, therefore, should mean a life of greater dedication to one’s country, greater surrender to God, greater self-purification. (Young India: August 20, 1925)
Aping of Europeans and Americans
As I wander about through the length and breath of India I see many Christian Indians almost ashamed of their birth, certainly of their ancestral religion, and of their ancestral dress. The aping of Europeans by Anglo-Indians is bad enough, but the aping of them by Indian converts is a violence done to their country and, shall I say, even to their new religion. (Young
India: August 8, 1925)
Why Should I Change My Religion
I hold that proselytisation under the cloak of humanitarian work is unhealthy to say the least. It is most resented by people here. Religion after all is a deeply personal thing. It touches the heart.
Why should I change my religion because the doctor who professes Christianity as his religion has cured me of some disease, or why should the doctor expect me to change whilst I am under his influence? (Young India: April 23, 1931)
Missionary Aim: Uprooting Hinduism
My fear is that though Christian friends nowadays do not say or admit it that Hindu religion is untrue, they must harbour in their breast that Hinduism is an error and that Christianity, as they believe it, is the only true religion. So far as one can understand the present (Christian) effort, it is to uproot Hinduism from her very foundation and replace it by
another faith. (Harijan: March 13,1937)
Undermining People’s Faith
The first distinction I would like to make between your missionary work and mine is that while I am strengthening the faith of people, you (missionaries) are undermining it. (Young India: November 8, 1927)
Physician Heal Yourself
Conversion nowadays has become a matter of business, like any other. India (Hindus) is in no need of conversion of this kind. Conversion in the sense of self-purification, self-realization is the crying need of the times. That however is never what is meant by proselytization. To those who would convert India (Hindus), might it not be said, “Physician, heal yourself.” (Young India: April 23, 1931)
Missionaries: Vendors of Goods
When the missionary of another religion goes to them, he goes like a vendor of goods. He has no special spiritual merit that will distinguish him from those to whom he goes. He does however possess material goods which he promises to those who will come to his fold. (Harijan: April 3, 1937)
If I had the Power and Could Legislate.
If I had the power and could legislate, I should stop all proselytizing. In Hindu households the advent of a missionary has meant the disruption of the family coming in the wake of change of dress, manners, language, food and drink . (November 5, 1935)
The Only Begotten Son of God?
I regard Jesus as a great teacher of humanity, but I do not regard him as the only begotten son of God. That epithet in its material interpretation is quite unacceptable. Metaphorically we are all sons of God, but for each of us there may be different sons of God in a special sense. Thus for me Chaitanya may be the only begotten son of God. God cannot be the exclusive Father and I cannot ascribe exclusive divinity to Jesus. (Harijan: June 3, 1937)
Western Christianity Today
It is my firm opinion that Europe (and the United States) does not represent the spirit of God or Christianity but the spirit of Satan. And Satan’s successes are the greatest when appears with the name of God on his lips. (Young India: September 8, 1920)
I consider western Christianity in its practical working a negation of Christ’s Christianity. I cannot conceive Jesus, if he was living in flesh in our midst, approving of modern Christian organizations, public worship, or ministry. (Young India: September 22, 1921)
Christianity and Imperialistic Exploitation
Christianity in India has been inextricably mixed up for the last one hundred and fifty years with British rule. It appears to us as synonymous with materialistic civilization and imperialistic exploitation by the stronger white races of the weaker races of the world. Its contribution to India has been, therefore, largely negative. (Young India: March 21, 1929)
No Room For Them
In the manner in which they are working there would seem to be no room for them. Quite unconsciously they do harm to themselves and also to us. It is perhaps impertinent to say that they do harm to themselves, but quite pertinent to say that they do harm to us. They do harm to those amongst whom they work and those amongst whom they do not work, i.e., the harm is done to the whole of India. The more I study their activities the more sorry I become. It is a tragedy that such a thing should happen to the human family. (Harijan: December 12, 1936)
Outrage!
Only the other day a missionary descended on a famine area with money in his pocket, distributed it among the famine stricken, converted them to his fold, took charge of their temple, and demolished it. This is outrageous. (Harijan: November 5, 1937)
Let the Hindu be a Better Hindu
I came to the conclusion long ago that all religions were true and also that all had some error in them, and whilst I hold by my own, I should hold others as dear as Hinduism. So we can only pray, if we are Hindus, not that a Christian should become a Hindu. But our innermost prayer should be a Hindu should be a better Hindu, a Muslim a better Muslim, a Christian a better Christian. (Young India: January 19, 1928)
Welcome Them Back
If a person through fear, compulsion, starvation, or for material gain or consideration goes over to another faith, it is a misnomer to call it conversion. Most cases of conversion have been to my mind false coin. I would therefore unhesitatingly re-admit to the Hindu fold all such repentants without much ado. If a man comes back to the original branch he deserves to be welcomed in so far as he may deem to have erred, he has sufficiently purged himself of it when he repents his error and retraces his steps. (Collected Works: Vol. 66, pp. 163-164)
NOTE: As a Hindu courtesy, please acknowledge Swami Aksharanandaji who compiled this information and Vidya Bharati, New York who produced it. Please circulate as widely as possible.
http://www.stephen-knapp.com/mahatma_gandhi_on_conversion.htm
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From Maoists deny role in VHP leader’s murder
*** COMMENT COMBINED ***
Orissa: Here, clashes are not one-sided
2 Sep 2008, 0235 hrs IST, Sandeep Mishra,TNN
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Orissa_Here_clashes_are_not_one-sided/rssarticleshow/3434175.cms
Barakhama offers a sample of how gradual rise in the Christian population has caused religious intolerance in Kandhamal.
Also read, readers feedbacks.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/opinions/3434175.cms
***
Watch.
Orissa:- Christian Terrorism on Hindus in India
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7OwEcW-1ZE
Dear Shantanu
I mentioned sometime ago about the very negative reputation of VHP all over the world. Please refer to today’s following news item in The Age, Melbourne:
http://www.theage.com.au/world/indians-flee-from-antichristian-attack…
It appears that even though the Maoists have claimed to have shot a Hindu leader, Hindu fanatics are busy doing what they do best: creating a situation where the minorities (and I use this word after due consideration) are forced into self-defensive violence. It will not surprise me if, as has happened to many Muslims in India (not the ones supported by Pakistan but the indigineous terrorists), Christian youth resort to mindless violence in retaliation. .
“Maoist rebels operating in Orissa have since claimed responsibility for the swami’s death but that did not put an end to the attacks. A hard-line Hindu leader in Orissa, Subhash Chauhan, said that Christians were behind the murder of the Swami and demanded they apologise for the brutal killing.”
I trust that you will condemn the killings of these innocents on your blog and directly name VHP as the perpetrator. Let VHP sue the press and clear its name if it is innocent. It can sue the Western press (eg. in Melbourne) if it thinks the Indian judiciary will be biased against it.
As far as I am concerned, there is just too much evidence of its wrong doings. I have formed an extremely poor bad opinion of such fanatic organisations which are completely undoing the good work of people like Vivekananda and bringing great shame to Hinduism as a whole, and India in particular.
Sanjeev: Thank you for your note…Below are my thoughts, including some facts.
1] The attack on Pujya Swamiji was the 10th attempt on his life. The police and state adminstration had been slow in responding to requests to provide more security cover. The latest such request was made after a threat was received on friday – the day before he was shot dead. Pl. do not forget that the last attack (before this one) was in December 2007 and is said to have been coordinated by a section of the Christain community (as reported in the press). You would of course know that he was not particularly popular amongst the Christian missionary organisations in the area due to his focus on getting converted tribals back into the fold. There is also a social dimension to this issue which I had mentioned in my post:
https://satyameva-jayate.org/2008/03/15/the-other-side-of-kandamahal/
2] While the media (Indian MSM as well as western) has been uniform in identifying the killers as Mao-ists, this has still not been proven. In fact one of the first suspects to be arrested has links with a Christian charity! …and at least one Maoist group has denied responsibility and/or involvement…(pl. see the comments section of my post above)
3] The Christian population in the area has gone up from just a few thousand in the 70s to almost two lakhs (this cannot be accounted by births alone). In this context, pl. do read comment No. 12 in my post above which details the Christian evangelical project in Orissa.
4] The attacks have not been limited only to “minorities” – as I am sure you know…and something which has also been grudgingly reported by MSM: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Orissa_Here_clashes_are_not_one-sided/rssarticleshow/3434175.cms
5] Regardless of who was responsible for the murder of Swami-ji, there can be no justification for the killing of innocents – christians or anyone else – by any individual, group or organisation. In a democracy, only the state must have the right to use force.
6] Finally, I would encourage everyone to not rely solely on the western or the Indian MSM media for news and reports on events such as these. Please broaden your news sources to get a different
perspective.
Brief excerpt from a recent article by Swapan Dasgupta:
Kandhamal and Bengaluru
New Indian Express, 11-09-08
Contrary to what Indians here and Christians elsewhere have been told by evangelical missionaries, media and seculars, the Kandhamal arson is not, as it has been concocted, a clash between Hindu and Christian faithfuls at all. The truth is that it is a continuation of the clashes that had started in early 1990s between the Kandha tribe, which did not convert to Christianity, and Panaâ caste people, most of whom had converted.
Religion is the spice added to this mix.
Kandhas are a Scheduled Tribe (ST) and Panas are a Scheduled Caste (SC). Both are entitled to reservation benefits under the Constitution, yet, with a difference. While ST reservation will continue even if the beneficiary becomes a Christian, the SC reservation will cease on conversion. When the Panas became Christians they lost their reservation rights. But under the influence of the missionaries and secular parties, and claiming to speak the same language Kuiâ as Kandhas, they agitated for ST status. So that, despite becoming Christians, their reservation rights would continue if they got listed as ST. But the Kandhas, who saw that their share of reservation would be cut into if the Pana demand were conceded began resisting it. Reservation is a cause of the Khand-Pana divide, but not the only cause; dispute over land is another.
The Kandhas were the traditional rulers of Kandhamal and that is the reason the district bears their name. The lands at Kandhamal belonged to them by the traditional rights that go with the tribes. It was their misfortune that the Kandhas chose to remain true to their traditional faith and resisted conversion to Christianity. The Panas were fortunate as most of them became Christians accepting the allurements offered by over 360 evangelical outfits operating in Kandhamal and harvesting souls for the ‘Only True Faith’ and ‘God’ and, in the process, raking in millions and millions of dollars from global funds for the noble harvest.
Besides the perks that conversion yielded, the Panas, as Christian minorities, have the protection of the state, patronage of the media and secular parties, and above all, the powerful support of the Christian nations all over the world. The Kandhas, whose only fault was that they did not convert, have none of these. So they suffer all the limitations of the majority community under the skewed Indian Constitution that clubs the Hindus in Mumbai with the Kandhas in Khandmal! With such powerful secular forces ranged against them, the Kandhas are being further cornered in two ways. One, the Panas who have become relatively better off have gradually taken over much of the lands of the Kandhas, by commerce and fraud, as the Kandhas see it. Two, on top of it, the Panas are also claiming the ST status to grab a share of the reservation from the Kandhas, and thanks to the secular parties’ support, seem to be nearly getting it. In substance thus, it is a Kandha vs Pana war over land rights and reservation. Surprisingly, in the face of the ‘itch of his colleagues’ to paste Hindu-Christian label on Kandhamal, Union Home Minister Shivraj Patil saw the truth and refused to treat the ongoing clashes as communal! But, more surprisingly, only one newspaper, a financial daily, reported his view while others blacked it out.
This is not the first time that the Kandhas and the Panas are at war. In 1992, the war between them lasted for three months, resulting in over 20 deaths. The issue was then, as it is now, land and reservation, which was the very consequence of conversion of the Panas to Christianity. The Panas got financial and political advantage and also gained lands belonging to the Kandhas.
Though they lost their reservation benefits in the bargain, they began reclaiming them through their demand for ST status. It needs no seer to say that it is religious conversions that sequenced into hostilities between the Kandhas disadvantaged as Hindu majority and the Panas protected as Christian minority.
No major clash between the Kandhas and the Panas was reported before the missionaries entered Kandhamal. The Christian population in Kandhamal which was some two per cent in 1961 and six per cent in 1971, rose to 27 per cent in 2001.These numbers speak volumes. Yet, now the missionaries, media and the seculars shout from house tops that only after VHP and Bajrang Dal have entered the scene, there are clashes and the minorities are being butchered.
In 1992, there was no VHP worth the name in Orissa; and the Bajrang Dal was not yet born. Yet bloody clashes did occur in Kandhamal between the Kandhas and the Panas.
This points to the one and only fact that it is not the VHP or the Bajrang Dal, but the entry of global evangelism aided by unlimited global funds for harvesting the Panas to Christianity that turned the Kandhas and the Panas hostile to each other and led to clashes. Now the resistance of Hindu outfits is faulted. But what about the cause the global evangelical conversions powered by huge global funds? Why is the entire secular establishment deafeningly silent? And where does Swami Laksmananda fit into this theatre of Kandhas and Panas, evangelists and the seculars and why was he murdered? A Vedanta scholar, his only fault was that, when the establishment had let down particularly the Kandhas, who refused to convert, he stood by them. He ran schools, colleges, satsangs and discourses which became a great hit with the Kandhas and also the Panas who refused to convert.
He became the biggest roadblock to the missionaries.
He was targeted by the evangelists for a long time. In December 2007, an attempt was made on him in the village of a Congress MP and a Christian convert. Again, some 24 hours before he was murdered, the Swami got a letter threatening that he would be done away with if he did not close down his work against conversion in Kandhamal.
He personally lodged that letter as FIR with the police. Yet, the Swami, along with four of his disciples, was done away with the very next evening. The Kandhas reacted violently when their best hope, the Swami, was snuffed out. This was the context for the August 2008 clashes which were always waiting to happen between the Kandhas and the Panas. Yet it was no one-sided affair, as made out to be. A secular newspaper has investigated and reported that the Panas responded to Kandhas attack with gun fire and killed four which has alerted the State to the possibility of the emergence of Christian-extremist alliance in Kandhamal.
This the story of how Kandhamal, a backward district of Orissa, competes for global status with Bengaluru now, but for entirely different reasons. While the fortunate Bengaluru became the pride of India, thanks to the 20-year old software techies who have put the nation on the knowledge map of the world, the unfortunate Kandhamal has become the shame of India, thanks to the seculars aggregating votes and the evangelists harvesting souls, with the media turning blind eye to both and finally to truth
comment@gurumurthy.net
About the author:
S Gurumurthy is a well-known commentator on political and economic issues
So, the attacks on churches and christians in Kandhamal was a retaliation by the VHP brigades against the killing of Swami Laxmananda?
What is the reason for the attacks on the churches by the VHP in Karnataka, eh?
How come this is not something that gets people agitated on this blog?
*** COMMENT COMBINED ***
@ Patriot: Sh Gurumurthy (above comment) suggests that the clashes in Kandhamal have their origins elsewhere (not so much in religion)…
As for the attacks on Churches/Christians in Karnataka, which straight-thinking person would not condemn attack on innocents?
P.S. Any comment on the alleged “illegal conversions” that have taken place? and/or the attack on Police by Christians? [ link ]
*** COMMENT COMBINED ***
Shantanu,
If hooligans have been assaulting you and your places of worship and the police have been standing by …. would you also not throw stones at the police? I am sure those chaps were instigated from the pulpit, but they had cause, surely, going by the logic on this post?
I am not sure what is meant by “illegal†conversions … a favourite buzzword of the VHP. If it only means that conversions have not been reported to the district collector, I would think that there are sound economic reasons behind the same. This way, the “converted†tribal becomes a christian and yet retains the economic benefits of the label ST. At an individual level, I see nothing wrong in someone trying to maximise their economic gains. After all, most of these people live below the so-called “poverty lineâ€.
And, Gurumurthy is not a commentator that I respect (for his stupid views on economics), but I will read through the above post and comment, I need to.
Cheers
***
RE: Gurumurty,
I had actually read about this earlier in some Oriya context – I do not recall the context, but if it comes back to me, I will post the source.
I have a few comments:
1. First of all, it is always about economics (which some of you would not agree to, in the case of Mumbai). End of the day, organised religion is also about economics and number of followers. So, the fact that religion has been used to spice up an economic and cultural issue comes as NO surprise to me.
2. I do not see Gurumurthy’s point when he writes this – “It needs no seer to say that it is religious conversions that sequenced into hostilities between the Kandhas disadvantaged as Hindu majority and the Panas protected as Christian minority.”
At the very least, it is wrong, at the most, it is an inflammatory statement. The Hindus (Kandhas) are ST, and derive the benefit of reservations. How are they disadvantaged? The Christians (Panas) are SC, and lose their reservation on conversion – how are they the gainers? I derive this from Gurumurthy’s article itself. The Panas may have been agitating to keep their SC status after conversion, but this is hardly likely to happen, seeing that it will require a constitutional amendment (Gurjars, anyone?).
So, what exactly is the point?
3. A majority of the conversion stems from poverty. If the christian missionaries (or evangelists) are able to provide food, clothes, schools to the poor tribals, and the price is acceptance of christianity instead of animism, do you think there is even a remote chance of the guy saying no? Let us solve the poverty issue first, before getting on our high horse of illegal conversion.
Incidentally, the Ramakrishna Mission and the Bharat Sevasharam have been doing stellar work in this region. I used to know a couple of the monks, actually working in this place. But, you don’t see them going around burning churches, do you?
Cheers
***
Patriot: Hope you had a chance to read this:
https://satyameva-jayate.org/2007/03/01/missionaries-targetting-india-2/#comment-13403
This is India’s policing and we wonder why the world criticises us – A 29-yr old woman is raped and paraded naked, a 55-yr old man is stripped, beaten and nearly burnt to death, while the police stand by and watch. So much for “tolerant” hinduism. Let us not hear that myth again.
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/report-confirming-nuns-rape-sits-for-38-days-before-orissa-police-pick-it-up/368890/
Then, this: http://www.indianexpress.com/news/cops-too-busy-to-see-assaulted-nuns-medical-report/368052/
Then, this is the aftermath of the above report in Indian Express:
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/4-held-for-nuns-rape-cop-suspended-as-delhi-sends-orissa-another-reminder/369275/
Why suspend the poor Inspector – I am sure he was acting on orders to turn a blind eye. Should the government itself not be dismissed for failing in its most fundamental duty – protection of its citizens (and I mean both Hindus and Christians).
I propose a greater punishment for governments in power – if people die in rioting, and the government is unable to do anything about it for say, more than 10 days, then the govt will be automatically dismissed and the party in power will be barred from standing in elections in that state for the next 10 years. Such a law should get some prompt action, I would think.
**********************
Here’s some food for thought for everyone:
1. Why should the citizens of Orissa pay any taxes to either the central or the state government – after all, their government(s) have failed the primary contract between citizens and the state.
2. Why should christians in the state not set up armed militias now for their defence, since the govt has proven completely useless in maintaining law and order?
3. Why should hindus in the state not set up armed militias now for their defence, since the govt has proven completely useless in maintaining law and order?
4. Why should large numbers of affected youth not join the Naxalites now and extract revenge on the govt for the murders and looting?
In short, who will you blame if civil society crumbles in Orissa and it joins the red corridor? Oh, in case you forgot, the strong, nationalistic BJP is in power in the state and they just handed it over to the Naxals.
Really, a shame.
Patriot: Very good and thought-provoking comment…I will respond later.
The rape must be condemned unreservedly…The media reporting on this though leaves much to be desired.
How come this bloke P.Chand Dogra find Hindu houses damaged which the Media so far failed to spot?
No proofs! Empty article, Empty claims.
And a dozen stupid fellows (who love such claims) are sitting and commenting on it.
Enjoy your time-pass. However if you REALLY care for truth, open your eyes W-I-D-E-R and look deeper than you do now.
Maoist leader claims to have killed Laxmananda:
http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1195653
******************************************************
20-year old HINDU girl RAPED and BURNT alive by HINDU fanatics – her crime? She was found working in a prayer hall
http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1195449
Don’t you think it is now time to ban the Bajrang Dal as a terrorist organisation?
@ Shantanu,
I did read the link that you posted above (comment #13403) – I think that just proves my point. Use the due processes of law to shut down those organisations that are spreading inflammatory libel and slander. File criminal FIRs, and put such preachers behind bars.
But, I see no reason to go around physically assaulting people and breaking up buildings, or indeed raping and killing innocents.
I am afraid I have no sympathy for the so-called “Hindu angst” in this case – I just see this as an excuse for the hindu lumpens to go around creating mayhem. As I have mentioned before, the time has come to proscribe the Bajrang Dal, and may be the VHP, too. Such hindu organisations are no different from the LeTs or the HUJIs.
*****************************
And, it is ironic that so many people on the site support the beating up of christians in Orissa and Karnataka, and yet can not countenance the tactics of Raj Thackeray. I say that beating up the biharis and bhaiyyas are a more just cause!
Cheers
@ Patriot: Quick response…(re. comment #26)…terrorist organisations question the very legitimacy of the state. To the best of my knowledge, Bajrang Dal does not do that.
I think there is a distinction between IM and Bajrang Dal…
As you said in your comment #27, the police should arrest the culprits…find out if there was institutional sanction for the killings and attacks that followed Swamiji’s killing in Orissa (i.e. was the group leadership involved) and ban the organisation if necessary (possibly for disturning law and order)…but branding it a “terrorist organisation” is stretching it…(in my view)
@ Shantanu
Seems you are ‘sincerely deluded’ or ‘deliberately confused’.
On WHAT BASIS do you say that all terrorist question the legitimacy of the State? I think you have some preconceived notions which are incorrect.
Any organization that undermines the state and go around spreading terror for their own end and motives that is different from the objectives of Indian constitution is a terror outfit.
Bajrang Dal, VHP and RSS very well fit the bill of being terror groups and its goons terrorists.
@ Pratyush: First a request…Try and be nice in your choice of words…I am too thick-skinned to be offended by your phrases (e.g. “a dozen stupid fellows” in # 25 above) but I do care for my readers and I will not have arguments laced with abuses on this blog…
I hope you realise that such phrases do not add anything at all to your argument/point(s)…
To your point about: “I think you have some preconceived notions which are incorrect….”, please help me correct them…
Throughout the investigations in Orissa and Karnataka, no evidence has yet been found which would indicate a planned, coordinated strategy to attack Christians, burn Churches and indulge in violence and rape…
If such a plan was indeed found and established, the organisation involved must be named, punished, proscribed…
In the absence of that, people should avoid jumping to conclusions…
Just like every terrorist attack is not by Al-Qaeda (however tempting it may be to blame them), not every attack on Christians or Muslims is by Bajrang Dal/ VHP/ RSS (all fairly different entities by the way)
There is something known as mob/group-violence which can be spontaneous and usually only needs a trigger…Riots fall in this category…Terrorism does not.
Please help us all establish why/how Bajrang Dal, VHP and RSS “fit the bill of being terror groups”
Please stick to facts and coherent, logical arguments…
I promise to listen.
@Shantanu:
“Throughout the investigations in Orissa and Karnataka, no evidence has yet been found which would indicate a planned, coordinated strategy to attack Christians, burn Churches and indulge in violence and rape…”
What investigations? I have been following Orissa closely so far, and the best that you can say about Naveen Patnaik is that he has put Nero to shame. I repeat what investigation has been conducted by the police in Orissa? The police took 36 days to pick up the medical report for a FIR that had been lodged by a raped woman – and, you are saying that they investigated?
On the other hand, credible reports are emerging now that the police stood by while the rioters went on the rampage – I have posted two links above for this. We can choose to bury our heads in the sand, and say that this is biased eye-witness accounts, in which case, we can bid goodbye to the concept of India – as every single group in the country will realise that they can achieve their objectives only through violent means. Please understand that the bomb blasts and the Bajrang Dal conduct are two sides of the same coin.
“If such a plan was indeed found and established, the organisation involved must be named, punished, proscribed…
In the absence of that, people should avoid jumping to conclusions…”
Let us be serious about this …… you will never find ze master plan. IF that is your standard of proof, then I may as well as give up debating this issue with you. What you will find will be circumstantial evidence – and I think the regional newspapers and some of the mainstream newspapers have documented enough circumstantial evidence to point the finger at the Hindu fanatical groups – Bajrang Dal and VHP. You also have the evidence of the incendiary speeches made by various VHP functionaries. What more do you need to indict them of second-degree murder and first-degree abatement to hatred?
“terrorist organisations question the very legitimacy of the state. To the best of my knowledge, Bajrang Dal does not do that.”
Yes, the Bajrang Dal questions the legitimacy of the Republic of India, by their oft-repeated manifesto of establishing a Hindu Rashtra. A hindu rashtra is as against our secular constitution as is sharia rule. And, they have used the instruments of terror – rioting, destruction, rapes, killing – against various minority communities. Oh yes, the Bajrang Dal certainly qualifies as a terrorist outfit.
I do not agree with Pratyush above re: RSS being a terrorist organisation, and I believe VHP is now borderline as they have handed over all the terror stuff to Bajrang Dal.
“the police should arrest the culprits…find out if there was institutional sanction for the killings and attacks that followed Swamiji’s killing in Orissa”
The police does not seem to be doing this in Orissa – what is *your* solution to the police inaction?
*************************************
I am really saddened by what is happening in India today and to India, today. I feel that we are really moving close to the verge of a very nasty period in our history – I can not even rule out a violent movement like the Khalistan one engulfing the whole country. The red corridor already means that the over 15% of the nation’s people are subjects to a different “government”, who has been attacking our police forces with impunity.
The total alienation of another 20% of our own people can only cause untold misery to everyone, including the majority 80%.
I fear that the upcoming national elections in 2008-09 will bring in our worst national government of the last 20 years – do remember my words when the results come out. The reason I am pessimistic is that the BJP has proven that it can not be trusted to uphold law and order, irrespective of the state that it is in power, and it can not also be trusted to put national interests above its own party interests. The Congress, OTOH, has proven that it judges policing through the prism of its vote bank, and that it can not be trusted with economic policy making. So, the national parties will both see erosion of their votes percentage.
So, who steps into the vacuum – I am afraid it will be the motley regional parties – Shiv Sena, RJD, JDU, AIADMK, etc and of course, Mayawati and her BSP. I think the chances of Mayawati leading a coalition government as PM has increased dramatically over the last month. Be prepared for a return to the 70’s, with lousy policy and worse governance.
Of course, the BJP is so stupid that it will not even be able to figure out the connection as to why it will be routed in 2008-09. And, the Congress just about manages to live on Charisma.
What a terrible point India has reached.
@ Patriot: Let us be honest and candid here…As I wrote elsewhere in response to another comment:
Nothing, absolutely NOTHING will change by me or you making or scoring points on this blog…
The purpose of this discussion/blog posts (I believe) is to unearth facts and possibly become a basis for forming an opinion on a wide range of issues…
Beyond that, these words are meaningless and the prescriptions that we often suggest are utopian (or dire)…
If we REALLY want to change things, I am now beginning to be convinced that people like you and me – and a large majority of those who take valuable time out of their daily schedules to comment on this blog and share their thoughts here – need to get out of our inaction, indifference, reluctance or plain apathy and help create conditions for the India that we want to see, flourish, thrive and prosper…
Would you agree?
What do others think?
***
Separately, excerpts from: “What national shame?” by Rajiv Dogra (India’s former Ambassador to Italy):
@Shantanu:
“If we REALLY want to change things, I am now beginning to be convinced that people like you and me – and a large majority of those who take valuable time out of their daily schedules to comment on this blog and share their thoughts here – need to get out of our inaction, indifference, reluctance or plain apathy and help create conditions for the India that we want to see, flourish, thrive and prosper…”
I fully agree with you on the above. This is one reason I joined the Freedom Team of India and I am committed to fighting elections on the FTI/allied platform. I would invite others from the blog to at least explore the platform and see if they wish to join:
http://www.freedomteam.in
But, I also think we are doing an important job by writing on the blog – we are helping to shape some opinions, take some stances. If you have/create sufficient momentum, then I fully believe that we can influence some of our fellow Indian Citizens and influence the formation of some of our policies.
To paraphrase a holy book, First there was a word, and the word was “Liberty”. Do not underestimate the power of the written and spoken words.
BTW, I would really be interested in your response to my views on the Bajrang Dal.
@ Patriot: A quick response to Bajrang Dal…I missed it y’day…
I believe there are criminal elements who go under the name of Bajrang Dal (and possibly belong to the organisation)…
If there is enough evidence to nail them, let the government go for it…(and as you know this matter is being considered by Central Government)…
But there are a few things that are getting mixed up here ( I feel)…Crimes, killings and murders (however heinous they may be) do not necessarily equal terrorism…
People indulging in riots and mob violence may be driven by passions, anger etc…that does not make them terrorists…
It is important to maintain this distinction…
Which is why I would not call people who protest against Taslima Nasreen or MF Husain as terrorists either…If they indulge in violence, lootings, rapes, they must be punished…Banning a possibly non-existent formal organisation may help score political points but the fundamental problem – as I am sure you will agree – is the breakdown of law and order and an inefficient and ineffective administrative machinery…
By the way (as many of you must have guessed), I have little sympathy for their (Bajrang Dal’s) lop-sided and narrow interpretation of Hindu traditions and culture…(e.g. their attitude towards Valentine’s Day or same-sex relationships)
Shantanu, dude, you are missing the central part of my argument against Bajrang Dal – they do NOT subscribe to the Constitution of India. All of their actions follow from their central tenet/philosophy that they want to establish a Hindu Rashtra in place of our secular Republic of India.
So, at best, they are a anti-constitutional group (like the Hurriyat?), at worst, when they use instruments of terror (and I consider organised riots to be one), they are a terrorist group. I do not see why we should pussyfoot around this.
“People indulging in riots and mob violence may be driven by passions, anger etc…that does not make them terrorists…
It is important to maintain this distinction…”
By this definition, I guess the Kashmiri Hurriyat are alright ….. they are not terrorist groups either.
“If they indulge in violence, lootings, rapes, they must be punished…Banning a possibly non-existent formal organisation may help score political points but the fundamental problem – as I am sure you will agree – is the breakdown of law and order and an inefficient and ineffective administrative machinery…”
I fully agree with you here – unfortunately, the cause of the current breakdowns is complicity of state governments and I, for one, am not able to see how we are going to tackle this issue. And, if we can not, India’s slide into anarchy is assured.
“Banning a possibly non-existent formal organisation may help score political points”
Why are you calling the Bajrang Dal a non-existent/non-formal organisation?
BTW, here is a list of hindu organisations (of whom I am aware of and with whom I may have interacted) that are providing yeoman service to the poor and distressed of the hindu community:
Ramakrishna Mission
Vedanta Mission
Bharat Sevashram
Advaita Mission
Brahmakumaris (don’t know the official name)
They run primary health care centres, schools, hostels orphanages, and some hospitals in some of the poorest parts of India, including Orissa. However, unlike the so-called VHP “swamis”, they do not make incendiary speeches, they do not go out with trishuls, and they do certainly do not go and stone and burn other people’ houses. Seems to me that they are acutally following the Gita – Think not of the rewards, etc.
So, who do you think is the True Hindu? Those who prey on the innocent or those who serve?
Patriot,
I agree with you fully. You have put things with great clarity of thought and logic, which I mostly find missing in the comments of those backing the radicals like Bajrang Dal and others.
@ Patriot: No, I am not pussyfooting around this…
If we are able to establish (and it is important to do this) that the Bajrang Dal is undermining the constitution of India, there is no doubt in my mind that action needs to be taken…By this definition though, the Hurriyat might also need to be banned as also the Shiromani Akali Dal (Amritsar)
What do you think?
Re. “non-existent formal”, I should have been clearer…what I mean is that the Dal does not have appear to have a “formal” organisation…or maybe it does…I will do some background checks later on.
As for who is a True Hindu? Thats a great cue to this extract from Tarun Vijay’s latest piece, “Don’t forget the real issues”
*** Excerpts ***
***
Do read the article in full here.
@ Shantanu:
“If we are able to establish (and it is important to do this) that the Bajrang Dal is undermining the constitution of India, there is no doubt in my mind that action needs to be taken…By this definition though, the Hurriyat might also need to be banned as also the Shiromani Akali Dal (Amritsar)”
I have no doubts whatsoever that the Bajrang Dal is undermining the constitution and concept of India very actively. As I have mentioned before, your standard of proof may be too high – we can only go by incidental or circumstantial evidence here.
Does the Hurriyat and the SAD also need to be banned? I have no doubts about the first – it has been actively preaching secession against India and supporting the terrorist agenda in various ways.
I am not fully sure about the SAD – you see, just having a different opinion to the constitution is not sufficient – I hold many different views to the constitution, including property rights and civil code, but the necessary part of the equation is – am I also using criminal means of destabilising the country and its constitution? I think the answer to the above is YES for the Bajrang Dal, SIMI and the Hurriyat and NO for the SAD.
However, the SAD is still borderline, since they have virtually secessionist thinking as part of their manifesto.
I read a very good interview of Prakash Singh Badal sometime back where the Indian Express really grilled him on why the SAD did not stand up against the Khalistanis in the 80’s. I will see if I can find and post it – very interesting read.
Here it is: PSB’s Interview
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/govt-has-a-rule-that-only-a-fixed-percentage-can-join-army-from-a-state.-this-quota-must-go/329055/0
Looking at the mind of bloggers here, I will never ever think of joining FTI or BPD or….. or supporting such party. I think they all are same when the time comes they will work for their interests, same as UPA, not in the interests of India. They are showing the sign of appeasement form now so by tomorrow who knows they may turn out worser than UPA? Hoping for new political party which respects the country not the appeasement on wrong grounds which infringes the rights of others.
@ Indian
Great Hopes! Who’s asking you to join any party? Which party wants you?
@ Chidambarm,
Are you fooling around? Who are you by the way? Did I mentioned your name anywhere that you are responding to me?Why did you get so hurt by my statement. Feeling looser being one from the party!
@ Chidambaram: Pl. have a look at my comment moderation policy (under Legal Disclaimer)…No need to to get personal with remarks here…especially when you don’t know the other person…
Look forward to your thoughts on the main topic under discussion…
***
@ Patriot: Thanks for the link…I will have a look
*** COMMENT COMBINED ***
@Pratyush – Thanks!
I don’t feel like I am ploughing a lonely farrow here since the time you, ObjeciveEye, ConscienceMatters, Mahesh Patil joined this forum. Of course, Shantanu and VCK are usually quite balanced, too, in their comments.
Cheers
***
BTW, can I post a plug for Indian Express here –
For people with interest in politics in India and for generally unbiased reporting and excellent analysis, you can not beat the Indian Express. I started reading the paper during the Kargil War as it seemed to have the best reporting, and since then I have kept reading it. They report both sides of the story, and they give space to both sides of the analysis – very objective newspaper, which deserves our support.
And I say this having grown up on the Times of India, which I stopped reading completely about 6-7 years ago.
For business news, I would recommend the Hindu Business Line and the Business Standard.
Cheers
Just picked this up…
Paralytic burnt alive in Kandhamal violence
Truly barbaric, horrible and disgusting….The people who did this should be hanged…although they first need to be identified and arrested.
Dear Shantanu Saab,
I think we should look at this burning issue with a bag of salt. Do you think an organisation is going to be so stupid to do this morbid act and keep prove themselves when they are listed to be proscribed.
Come of it sir, let us have sense of loyalty towards sensibility. Does the media think that all of us are idiots of the first kind?
Coming to the next point you wanted some links to the murder of the swamiji in Kandhamal. They are:
http://viveka-jyoti.blogspot.com
indiaview-wordpress.com/thu.oct.9
http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/oct/05orissa1.htm
http://sites.google.com/site/hindunow/kandhamal-christist-consipracy
Regards,
vck
@ Patriot, Shantanu.
Its definitely a good discussion that is going on. However, I feel there is a lot of prejudice against VHP and Bajrang Dhal, and also it clearly shows the hidden interest when someone equates VHP with IM.
Lets try to answer this
1. how many lives are lost by SIMI and IM and how many are lost due to VHP,BD.
2. how many poor people benefited by SIMI and IM, and how many got benified by VHP,BD.
3. what are the socio economic initiatives like ‘education for poor’,’flood relief’ etc that were provided by SIMI and IM and what were provided by VHP,BD.
4. How many incidents are taken responsibility by SIMI, IM and how many by VHP,BD. And what are the casualities.
5. Does ‘missionaries’ accept secularism? If they do, they have no right to convert (refer to Gandhi’s and Swami Vivekananda’s exerpts). If they don’t, they should be termed terrorists and all missionaries should be banned.
6. What is the root cause of problems between ‘Hindus and Christians’ and ‘Muslims and Hindus’ and ‘Muslims and Christians’? It is a open secret that they are ‘conversion and encroachment’, ‘appeacement and encroachment’, ‘encroachment’.
7. Is it practically possible for the Hindu organizations like ramakrishna mission to match the money power of missonaries? While the government doesn’t help poor too, isn’t it is natural for existing public to outraged.
8. What will be a normal person’s psychology when there were 90% hindus in his city when he was a kid and there are only 40% hindus when he is 25?
If someone is a true believer and supporter of ‘conversion due to force and inducement’, I don’t think there is any point in discussing with such people. If not, I think we can take look at these points and adress them.
@ Pratyush
“What is the reason for attach on Churches in Karnataka?”
This I find amusing, that you were so unaware of the details. The churches are not catholic churches, they belong to ‘New Life’ and Catholics themselves have distanced themselves from that. I sincirely believe you will not have any prejudice, so I would request you to see the ‘satyadarshini’ pamplets distributed by New Life (who belong to those churches).
One point to be agreed is, missionaries can easily convert poor and illitrate if they do it shrewdly (which they havebeen doing well over 2 centuries). When they do it wrong like satyadarshini, it will cause problem because the people are same poor and illiterate.
For a change, I would like to suggest the missionaries to try to convert rich, educated and religiouly aware hindus. Lets see what proposition they can come up with.
Simple solution to all this, stop conversion, everyone will live peacefully.
Dear Nanda,
Before I respond to your posts, could you please provide some unbiased data (meaning not only from their own website) to support your statements no 2 and 3 re: the Bajrang Dal.
I am excluding the VHP because I have not suggested banning them, and hence including them in the discussion does not make sense.
Thanks
Courtesy Bharat-Rakshak, a great comment by “harbans”:
***
@ vck: Thanks for the links. I shall have a look at them.
Dear Sir,
You have hit the nail on the head. Hinduism, Christianity or any “religion” for that matter goes over the head of the people who live in remote places.
They have lived happily without internet, smallpox vaccination, heart attacks,cholesterol and meltdowns. leave them alone and they will survive for more milleniums. may be they will not go on a water ski, or travel by businees class British Airways, or may be not set foot on the moon.
They will be able to live their ways,they will be able to feed themselves as they have done all these years. May be they will avoid obesity and its consequenses.
As Tarique has said in his mail ‘Religion is the opium of the masses”. A way of life is not.
Let us not mix it up.
Regards,
vck
I see that Nanda has no data to support his thesis of humanitarian work done by the Bajrang Dal, and so I rule his entire post to be infructuous.
@VCK
“They have lived happily without internet, smallpox vaccination, heart attacks,cholesterol and meltdowns. leave them alone and they will survive for more milleniums. may be they will not go on a water ski, or travel by businees class British Airways, or may be not set foot on the moon.”
How do you *know* they have lived happily? How do you know that they would not like to “improve” their basic lifestyle? How can anyone say that some other community should be left to live in abject poverty as it protects their “way of life”?
I am asking the above in genuine enquiry as I have come across this attitude elsewhere, too and I hold this attitude to be completely responsible for what is happening in North-East India (nehru’s paternalism and protectionism).
44 NGOs barred from receiving foreign funds
22 Oct 2008, 2047 hrs IST,PTI
Who are these 44 NGOs? Does anyone have a list?
Kandhamal: A Fact File by Michael Parker, published by India Foundation
http://www.dailypioneer.com/214402/Looking-back-at-Kandhamal.html
From Vijayendra Mohanty, please watch: http://youtu.be/0x7YTAvJ39I
Here’s the truth behind the Kandhamal riots of 2007. This somewhat choppily-made but unbiased documentary must serve as an example to our country’s media organisations which jump at the opportunity to sensationalise things with suitable background music as quickly as possible.
VoP: I could not access the article on the dailypioneer website. I found the report here:
http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/hinduism-forum/748145-indian-media-reviews-orissa-crossfire-kandhamal-burning.html
http://saswatpanigrahi.blogspot.com/2009/11/looking-back-at-kandhamal.html
http://saswatpanigrahi.blogspot.com/2008/05/life-dedicated-to-poor.html
A couple of more:
http://saswatpanigrahi.blogspot.com/2009/07/kandhamal-lies-nailed.html
http://saswatpanigrahi.blogspot.com/2009/07/other-side-of-kandhamal-story-tribals.html
This is about 35MB. Knock yourselves out downloading and reading it.
A report and book by one Brannon Parker
http://www.lulu.com/items/volume_71/11326000/11326166/1/print/7879596_7879596.pdf
Thanks for sharing the links OS
Placing this here for the record: 25 Acquitted in Kandhamal Riot Case PTI | PHULBANI (ODISHA) | JUN 28, 2012
Twenty-five persons allegedly involved in the Kandhamal communal riots in Odisha in 2008 were acquitted by a local court due to lack of proper evidence against them.
Additional Sessions Judge (Fast Track) B.N.Mishra yesterday acquitted 25 persons who were booked on charges of rioting and arson.
According to the prosecution, one Chitrasen Digal of Kakadabadi village had lodged a FIR with Daringbadi police alleging that some armed miscreants had torched some houses in his village including his own on September 28, 2008 during the Kandhmal riots.
Acting on the FIR, Daringbadi police had arrested one Sumant Digal and 24 others on the alleged charges, S. Mohapatra Additional Public Prosecuter said.
The riots occurred in Kandhamal, a tribal-dominated district, in the aftermath of the killing of VHP leader Laxmanananda Saraswati at the Jalespata Ashram on August 23, 2008.