There is a “राषà¥à¤Ÿà¥à¤°” in “महाराषà¥à¤Ÿà¥à¤°”…
…but there is no मराठी in there.
This was the thrust of a discussion I had with a group of Maharashtrian professionals earlier this month when the “Maharashtra saga” was just beginning to unfold. See some of the slides here (CAUTION: 800k download:Â A Question of Identity).
Then Anil Sharma-ji of Freedom Team alerted me to this article by Pratap Bhanu Mehta (“His freedoms and ours”, Feb 18) which I felt best captured my thoughts on the going-ons in “Aamchi Mumbai” (excerpts below; emphasis mine).
“…Thackeray deserves all the blame he is getting. But it is also time to be blunt and graceless about one disturbing fact. The response of the political class as a whole has been deeply disturbing in its own way along more dimensions than one.
…most prominent Maharashtra politicians have been at best very tepid, at worst downright equivocal, in their condemnation of Thackeray’s underlying arguments. This is the kind of issue that requires politicians from Maharashtra to express unequivocal outrage. Not one major leader, from Sharad Pawar to Vilasrao Deshmukh, has expressed the requisite sense of outrage or engaged in the kind political symbolism that can assure all Indian citizens that they are not quietly complicit in this dangerous madness.
…The absence of such signals suggests that the rot in our polity is deeper.
Second, we seem to be fundamentally confused over what this crisis represents….On the one hand, we want to boil it all down to politics. But in democracy when we say that there is a political logic behind some move, it is as much of an indictment of the voters as it is of politicians. On the other hand, we want to reaffirm our fundamental virtue. This is a fringe movement, we want to claim. The daily practices of life, the great ability to live with difference that most Indians embody, so the argument goes, are far too robust to be damaged by marginal elements.
But either way we are in trouble. If indeed, such ideological mobilisation can get mass traction we are in trouble. But even if this is a marginal movement, the fact that a lakshman rekha around what citizenship means in modern India has been crossed portends danger.
We can lose, because large numbers of people turn over to the dark side; or we can lose, because large numbers of people, even though they have not turned over to the dark side, are willing to let the fringe run riot. Either way we lose.
Third, this crisis reveals yet again the colossal leadership vacuum India is facing.
We have assorted chief ministers protesting at the goings-on in Maharasthtra. But they also use a language that refers to their particular constituencies…But no one at the national level is a credible, consistent and forceful embodiment of the basic constitutional values we need to defend.
The symbolic functions of leaders, whether they be leaders of parties or holders of high office, is that they consistently remind the nation of the boundaries that cannot be breached. But most of our leaders deal with these sorts of crises in avoidance mode.
…But we are now in a political environment where the refusal of our important leaders to express outrage will only embolden every two-bit leader to occupy centrestage.
Fourth, and perhaps most seriously, we need to move away from a discourse of diversity to a discourse about freedom.
Of course diversity is something to be cherished, but all the talk of diversity can also lead to some fundamental confusions. For one thing, diversity is quite compatible with segregation and even hierarchy. We often cherish diversity so long as everyone is in their rightful place. The minute implied boundaries are breached, populations mixed, cultures transformed, we scurry back to the protection of our enclaves….”
At least one political leader though has taken a “stand” on this…and I admire him even more for his forthright honesty:
Here is George Fernandes on Raj Thackeray (excerpts below; emphasis mine)
“…In a letter written to Mr Raj Thackeray, Mr Fernandes said, Â The road you have chosen is by making it known that your politics is going to be through violence…
…Mr Fernandes (also) said, Â Do be from Maharashtra but be an Indian first...”
Well said, Shri Fernandes and I salute you for being outright and unequivocal in your condemnation.
Dear Sir,
What humbugs we are. Raj! Raj! and Raj! and criticism, criticism and added criticsm!
Where did it all start? We forget the past as and when it is convenient and bring it back when it is suitable for us.
Let us go back in history and understand how the linguistic states started and who are the Indian and State Icon’s? anybody related to it?
Was it long back that all this has happened or was it 50 years ago?
Let us reflect and those who condemn should reflect about it and understand that we have not changed and Raj only went one step ahead.
Can we destroy the Icon’s who have created this monster of States? Then condemn Raj.
Regards,
vck
Did anyone saw the poverty level in U.P.? I have seen it with my eyes. Who to condemn? Obviously, Govt Of U.P. Mayawati, Lalu Prasad and worker of the Govt. agencies in UP are doing welfare for and of their own family and pocket. No such developing plan or progress where they can accomodate poor people in in employment. State Bihar!, we all know about it. we dont have to go further what Lalu did and done. Someone has to open up their eyes otherwise U.P ministers will just focus on their winning election and salary. Ofcourse I dont agree with Raj’s method of addressing the issue but I heartly wish that UP govt starts working and stop fooling people of Utterpradesh. Today Gujarat, Banglore, Chennai is coming up with their efforts and accomodates many gradute students in their own state. Than nobody has to look out for jobs or anything outside their state infact they can provide accomadation to outsiders too by such progress.
We all condemn Raj’s action. Everyone has right to work and earn in any part of India. We all belong to India and we all are Indian first.
Without being bias my comment is -Everyone should straw up their own home first, rather than falling upon others.
I consider myself to be one of the most liberal commentators on this blog and I am also a migrant settled in Bombay for many years – yet I support what Raj Thackeray said.
To understand the angst of fellow Bombay-wallahs like me, you have had to live in Bombay for many years and have seen the steady degradation of this city, due to the influx of migrants and inaction of Congress governments.
The city is already Slumbai, very soon it will be No-bai – the city will cease to exist in another ten years if we continue on this path. All of us, the white-collar workers will go away to some other city abroad (no other city in India compares with Bombay), and the city will just become a festering, open sore and a reminder of what happens when you play to political galleries.
I consider myself to be a Maharashtrian having been here for decades, and having assimilated into the local lifestyle. I can say, that apart from the hill folks of India, Maharashtrians are most tolerant Indians, whether it comes to lifestyle, religion, language, culture, etc. We hardly ever get stressed. But, our tolerance is now being abused.
We do not mind migrants – but, do not come and stay here illegally on our footpaths and on any open land that you can find. Do not turn our streets into open lavatories. Do NOT break our traffic rules. You are free to come to Bombay to earn a livelihood but only if you can afford to pay the cost of the infrastructure – like paying for an apartment, not just squatting wherever you wish.
AND, DO NOT TRY TO SHOW YOUR ‘DADAGIRI’ TO US. This fight was started by Abu Azmi and Amar Singh, parasites on the body of India, who want to establish their presence in Bombay ….. WE DO NOT WANT YOU. You have raped and ruined Uttar Pradesh and Bihar, we do not need the likes of you spreading your poison in our state. AND, WE ARE PREPARED TO SAY THIS WITH STICKS.
What did Raj Thackeray actually say? He said if you come to Maharashtra, please respect our culture and our customs. What is wrong with that? To this, Abu Azmi retorted with vile rhetoric and saw the results on the streets thereafter.
Why DO corporators of North Indian origin want to introduce Hindi in our local corporation? WHY CAN THEY NOT LEARN THE LOCAL LANGUAGE? WE DO NOT RECOGNISE HINDI IN MAHARASHTRA EVEN IF WE ARE TOLERANT TOWARDS THOSE SPEAKING THE LANGUAGE. AND NOW THEY WANT TO FORCE IT DOWN OUR THROAT?
Maharashtra is the only major state in India, whose name does not include a regional reference or language reference – We are just the “Great State” and we have behaved as such since our formation in 1961. We have been tolerant to all outsiders, but there is a breaking point and we are reaching it now.
Please consider the following fact: For the last 50 years, Maharashtra has subsidised UP and Bihar. In fact, we have fed and clothed their people which their own politicians and bureaucrats have not been able to do and now these same rabid dogs tell us that we are INTOLERANT? That we must continue accepting migrants even if they do NOT obey our laws? Even if we are being pushed to the breaking point?
Please tell me why under these circumstances Maharashtra should not SECEDE from the Union of India. We have not got anything from being part of India, only abuse.
And, as a follow-up, why should the rest of the southern states also not secede from the Union of India? We have borne the problems caused by the criminal politicians of North India and paid for them, to boot.
WE SAY ENOUGH! WE SAY LET THE NORTH DELIVER ITS OWN PEOPLE.
Please ask Amit Sharma-‘ji’ to respond to these issues and we will see the caliber of the Freedom Team.
This feels so much like deja vu, ….resistance to Gujaratis in the past, then South Indians, and now people from Bihar / UP.
Hopefully, over time, as the unavoidable assimilation happens, today’s outsiders become part of the fabric. Unfortunately, there are likely to always be incumbents who try to make the next wave of incoming peoples scapegoats.
Another worrying factor is a governance failure on the part of the Maharashtra Government.
Personally, I am for strong governance structures which must be followed by everyone – incumbents and immigrants alike – which will reduce the underlying resentment many feel.
Unfortunately, a disturbingly large number of Maharashtrians’ support Raj Thackerey’s actions (albeit silently), because of what they feel are day to day challenges they face (people living on the foot-paths, murdered pensioners, etc. etc.).
All of these things that reduce the quality of life of the incumbents get attributed to the immigrants, and in my opinion result in the ambivalance towards idiotic and petty solutions from people such as Raj T.
*** COMMENTS COMBINED ***
Here is Raj Thackeray replying to Sudheendra Kulkarni in Indian Express:
http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/Do-political-movements-need-to-obey-the-law-What-about-Advani-rath-yatra-Modis-Godhra-outrage/276266/
Do read it, he makes some interesting points. Especially this one:
“….. do political movements need to obey the law? Political history learnt by me tells me that breaking the law, getting arrested, braving lathis and getting jailed are symbols of a principled agitation.”
and this:
“He said, “Mai Dilli raha, Calcutta raha, Mai Bambai (not Mumbai!) raha. Phir bhi meri pehchan, chhora Ganga kinarewala hi hai”.
My only observation was that if such a great hero feels love for Uttar Pradesh despite what Mumbai gave him, then what is wrong if a small man like Raj Thackeray feels love for Maharashtra? ”
***
As I read the above letter, couple of things struck me:
1. Raj Thackeray is probably one of the best communicators among Indian politicians today. Only a few others, IMO, match up – Arun Shourie, Arun Jaitley, Manmohan Singh, T R Baalu. In the letter, he serves up logic, not just banal statements about the constitution, about why he is doing what he is doing.
2. None of the UP/Bihar politicians have been able to reply to the crux/thrust of his arguments, and keep falling back on making (b)anal statements about it being unconstitutional. (Yeah, and they are the upright upholders of the constitution!)
3. Wouldn’t Raj Thackeray be a shoo-in for the Freedom Team based on what he has written?
Cheers
Patriot: Thanks for the link…I read the letter (somewhat huriedly) and it is clear to me that there are nuances here which were not apparent to me..
For instance, Raj is very clear that this agitation/movment is only against people from UP/Bihar – or specifically people from UP/Bihar who follow certain leaders.
Two, there is the reference to ChaatPuja, the subtleties of which are lost on me…I need to read up on that.
In any case, it is a well-written letter which deserves a response…I will be watching this space with interest.
I will also try and respond to your comment (of Feb 22nd) in a day or two.
Thanks.
***
Vck, Indian, Satya: Thanks for your comments and participation in the discussion.
This is what I understand from the first comment made by Patriot.
It suggest that only those who are powerful and financially sound has a right to stay in Mumbai?
It also suggest that killing of innocents and poor is ok as long as Thackerey’s and Marathi manoos are doing it? thats what Patriot want to say or is he/she just kidding?
I dont think it is Abu Azmi or Amar Singh as igniter. Thackereys has done this befor with Gujaratis, South Indians and now Biharis and Upities. Thackerey has divided India long time back on regionalism when all this so called problems described by patriots were not existed. It is ok to defy another language in municipalty, but not ok to defy people who are sons of the Indian soil
Educated Maharastrian too condemn this act of Raj and it is shame non-maharastrisan who are ganged with goons in killing and hitting.
Many Indians are poor and it is the fact that one should accept. Maharastra is not for only maharastrian. If person like Patriot is fed up with all this why not ask Marathis to stop nepotism in jobs where only maharastrians are recruited, only on the basis of “Marathi Manoos”. So marathis does is LILA and what other does is BHAVAI? thats what it suggests.
Raj should take up some other issues if he has plenty of time for Marathi Manoos”. It is unethical DADAGIRI” by Marathi Manoos.
I am not afraid of saying this even I have any kind of connection with mumbai and Marathi, I am Indian first and I fear God. But I do have doubt about patriot’s identity as non-maharastrian. I can read his/her shouting that matches with Thackerey’s in posting.
For information many grandparents had been sacked from the gov.t job in other state being Maharastrian because Gujarati’s were hit by Thackerey longtime back. It is poor people like us who suffers.
Thackereys shows cheap loyality towards Maharastrian for political gain by depriving rightful and innocents from number of years. No doubt init and that is the reason educated Maharastrian who are outside Maharastra were never with him and still dont agree with his politics.
Jai Hind!
Indian,
I only want to ask you one thing – answer me that and then I will answer the rest of your queries – if someone comes to your HOUSE without your leave and puts up a “tambu” in your compound and starts living there without your permission and stays put there irrespective of you telling him to move – what will you do?
And, how is that different from all the illegal slums that have sprouted all over Mumbai?
Just because someone is poor does not give them the right to do illegal things.
And, yes rest assured, I am not a Maharashtrian and I consider myself to be an Indian first, too. But, I can certainly see the point being made by Raj Thackeray. It is your problem if such subtle nuances escape you.
Cheers
Some thoughts that occur to me as I re-read some of the earlier posts:
First, One of Mahatma Gandhi’s legacy, which has been cynically nurtured by politicians of all hues, is that we think “the poor are always right, the rich are always wrong”. And, if anyone challenges this notion, then he/she is anti-national, anti-constitutional, whatever ….. we never seek to go to first principles.
Second, anyone who seeks a debate against conventional wisdom is anti-national. We do not want to have a rational debate on causes, but descend immediately to labels. No wonder it is so rare to have a rational debate on touchy topics on India and our criminal politicians rule the roost.
Third, we always uphold our biases to be truths, while the rest of the Indian population only has biases. And, this is of course, exacerbated and supported by our religion, our language, our region.
Fourth, we attack the person who puts forth a contrary view, but not the logic that he puts forward. Maybe because we are not trained in critical thinking and believe all opposing views have malafide intentions?
I really despair that we are still stuck in this kind of an intellectual quagmire, borne out of an inferiority complex, even 60 years after our independence?
Patriot: If I understood your comments correctly, the thrust of your argument relies on the following seven points (in italics). My responses are below:
1] Bombay has suffered steady degradation (in its infrastructure, quality of life etc) because of influx of influx of migrants and inaction of government. It is now at its breaking point
I do not believe that the “solution” to this issue is to chase away outsiders. The approach must be rooted in better governance, efficient administration and provision of better infrastructure.
More or less the same statement can be made about several major cities in India (Delhi, Bangalore) and of course you know that one of the major triggers for the Assam agitation was the influx of migrants from Bangladesh (who were truly “Illegal” migrants unlike Biharis in Mahasrashtra)
Cordoning off cities and throwing out people is not an answer to the problem created by corrupt, ineffective administration.
2] Maharashtrians, who are otherwise very tolerant people are now very upset about “illegal” migrants staying in slums, defecating in the open and generally ruining the city. You believe that such people should only come to Bombay if they “can afford to pay the cost of the infrastructure – like paying for an apartment”.
I hope you would agree that people from Bihar and UP are not genetically inclined to defecate in the open or break laws. They do these things because either they do no know any better or there are not sufficient sanitary provisions and/or they have no other choice (and perhaps a combination of all three and perhaps other factors)…The challenge is to resolve these issues rather than create barriers to entry…Barriers to entry are fundamentally against the concept of a citizen’s right to move freely within his/her country and seek their livelihood. How can you defend a limitation of this right?
3] the “fight” was started by Abu Azmi and Amar Singh and Raj Thackeray is only retaliating to provocation.
All I can say is that there are better ways to “retaliate” than to unleash your anger on innocent people without any resources who are struggling to make a living…
4] Raj is not against “outsiders” but wants them to respect Maharashtra’s culture and customs
I have no issue with that.
5] Maharashtrians are opposed to introduction of Hindi in the local corporation
This is an issue which has got mixed up with the “outisder vs. insider” debate. It should be treated differently. My personal view is that it is too late to go back on the prominent position we have given to regional languages in India (they all come in the category of official languages as you know) and it is futile and unrealistic to turn the clock back. I would say that the current position of using local languages for local administrative work and for official purposes should continue – even though it makes it more difficult to ever have a single “national language”.
6] “For the last 50 years, Maharashtra has subsidised UP and Bihar”
Again, an issue which has got mixed up with the “outsider vs insider” debate. Can I reserve comment on this until I have a better understanding of how state revenues are split between the Union and the State and how states are allocated funds for development? If you have some idea of this, please share it with us.
7] Maharashtra has “not got anything from being part of India, only abuse” and hence if there is a demand to secede from India, that would be justified. Perhaps some other states such as those in the South should consider seceding too.
Having read your past comments on this blog, I can only assume that you made this comment in mock-seriousness. The “demand to secede” can – in a certain context and circumstances – be “understood” but it can never be “justified”.
Otherwise we might as well surrender to civil war.
Dear Shantanu,
I read your post with great interest. Please keep in mind that this is an issue that has been festering with Mumbaikars for the last 10 years, and the latest outburst is just a manifestation of this deep-running malaise.
In response:
1. I agree. And, barring a few stray incidents by overcharged supporters of Raj, no one has actually been run out of the city. And, I state, unequivocally, that I do not support “chasing” anyone away by using force.
2. I disagree in its entirety. You fall into the same trap as Indian. That, if you are poor, you are free to break the law. I can not afford to buy a Merc, does that mean I can steal one? Especially so, as I am a migrant to this city? Yet, this is what the migrants are currently doing – stealing space that they can not afford. This is the crux of the problem. We pay taxes for the maintenance of the city, including all open spaces. And, we are not getting the level of maintenance required because people are stealing our land. Granted, they are also Indians, but that does not condone them or make them any lesser thieves.
3. If you know the history of the Shiv Sena, then you would know that it was a calculated insult by Abu Azmi designed ab initio to provoke violence. I blame both – the fiery instigator and the perpetrator.
4. Okay. Now, if only the people from UP and Bihar would agree!
5. Ok.
6. Please read up on this. If anything breaks up India, it will be this issue. States not pulling their weight economically. UP and Bihar have been subsidised by the southern states (incl Maharashtra) for the last 60 years – essentially, they have been living on our alms. Yet, they elect the most MPs to parliament and set policy ….. how is this sustainable? Why do you think the Naxalite problem originated in Bihar and Bengal?
7. Yes, it was said in jest. But, at the heart of every jest, there is a home truth. We ignore that at our peril.
I would like to point out that America fought a civil war within 100 years of its independence to ensure that the entire country followed similar principles. Only then, did it go on to become a great power.
France had FIVE revolutions within 150 years, after the revolutionaries evicted the Sun Kings, before it settled down as a Republic.
In comparison we are still a young country, making the same mistakes.
8. I would like to draw the attention of readers to an interesting development …… Apart from Rudi in Bihar, and a tame statement from Advani, the BJP has been silent. The RSS or the VHP have not even commented on le affaire Mumbai. Neither have any other “parties” from the Hindu Parivar. And, Raj Thackeray openly challenges Rudi in his letter (do read it, it is a very interesting political statement).
What conclusions do you draw from the fact that only the “secular” parties and media have denounced Raj?
Radicalism is, indeed, an interesting phenomenon.
Patriot: Thanks for your follow-up comment and alert eyes!
If I gave the impression that I condone breaking the law by poor or migrants, I should make my position clear.
Nothing can justify breaking the law – be it by the poor or the rich, migrant or native.
I should have been more careful while lumping defecating in the open and breaking the law in one sentence (in my comment above).
They are not the same – they are two very different things.
Coming back to your point..
You say that migrants are “stealing space that they can not afford. This is the crux of the problem.”
Surely if that is the crux of the problem, the solution is to bring the full force of the law to bear upon it rather than taking the law in your own hands and forcing people to leave en masse?
What happened to all the laws relating to encroachment, illegal occupation and so on? Or are we accepting that since they do not appear to be working, it is time for some vigilante-style action?
I will respond to point #8 you made above, later.
Thanks for contributing to the discussion
Dear Sir,
It is not out of place here to state that if we let the wound fester, we are in trouble. As I have stated in my first letter, let us think of the Mumbaikars and then the right of all to live anywhere in India.
I do not deny this right, but at what cost. It is the duty of every Indian to see that he has as much a right as a duty and responsibility to let everybody share his prosperity.
Just as he has a duty there is an inherent right for every Indian to have a nice life. Good water, sanitation, clean roads, no festering waterways etc.
We permitted the breaking of laws over the years, unhder the wrong understanding of “Gandhian Thought”. Poor vs Rich. But I am sure even “Gandhi” would not have agreed to this breaking of the law and accept, Enroachments, Defiling waterways, Plarforms used as housing projects, ALL THIS IN THE NAME OF POOR!!!
Raj has raised eyebrows, but there is fair chance of an eyeopener for TRUE BHARATIYAS that prosperity should be spread around and an all round development of Bharat, as it has happened in Gujerat, would be the answer to this problem. Some secularists may object to this, but I wish to reiterate that GUJARAT under the leadership of Shri. MODI has some good to it also.
All this BS about constitutional rights, etc. is a lot of humbug asa some parties want to keep Bharat and a section of Bharatiyas poor for there own ends.
Regards,
vck
Raj Saheb,I support you , before the UP/Biharis start making Ranvir’s sena’s and massacre people (and the government keeping quite), before the same kinds start aborting girl fetus (and the government keeping quite) , before the likes start scams of “chara†and making others “la-charâ€, cheer up for sati (and the government keeping quite) , let there be revolution against what is wrong , in favor of right, let there be revolution against hyporites who oppose bangladeshis for the same reason for which they support low wages migrants from their regions, let there be revolution against the wrong in favor the right…
Shantanu, you said:
“You say that migrants are “stealing space that they can not afford. This is the crux of the problem.”
Surely if that is the crux of the problem, the solution is to bring the full force of the law to bear upon it rather than taking the law in your own hands and forcing people to leave en masse?”
Unfortunately, the law has been ignored and denied by (Congress) Politicians seeking votes from the migrants – yet another minority community that is being appeased. And, the majority community is now saying we have had enough of this appeasement, especially since it is degrading our quality of life.
I don’t know if you are aware of the slum rehabilitation programme in Mumbai – the cut-off date for eligible slums was to be 1995. Then the (Congress) Politicians promised to extend it to 2000 in their last election manifesto. Thankfully, the HC stepped in and said that such dates can not just be rolled forward – else there would be no end to when the cut-off is applied. The govt, of the day, is trying its best to overturn this ruling.
Given the utter and complete lack of conscience with which the current Mah govt deals with Mumbai, is it any wonder that the locals (who are the majority community, BTW) support Raj Thackeray?
So, if you think what happened was wrong, please come up with a PRACTICAL and effective solution of how we can reverse the rot of Mumbai? I am willing to listen and I am sure Raj is willing to listen to any constructive solution.
I think the long term solution is to remove cross-subsidies between states (just as the centre does not provide money for power projects unless the state has reformed its electricity sector).
Each state must stand on its own feet and not expect alms from other states. Sanjeev talks about beggary and how that makes you less than human in another post and I think that applies to UP and Bihar. These states have lived on our alms for so long that they think it is now their right to be fed and clothed by the other people in India. Their moral compass is blunted to the extent that they threaten the very same state who gives them the money to survive.
To all those UP-wallas and Biharis crying themselves hoarse against Raj, I say, where does your self-respect go when it comes to reforming your state?
Slums cause 18-24 month delay in upgrade of Mumbai Airport
http://business-standard.com/common/storypage_c.php?leftnm=10&autono=314909
Hi Patriot
Firstly, Mumbai does not belong to Raj or any Thackeray. Secondly, Mumbai is not for only Maharastrians. Maharashtra is a part of India and can be home to anyone who belongs to India. Today’s Mumbai has contribution from number of people came from different region. There are plenty of Maharastrian in different states and parts of the world also.
I agree with Shantanu, and V.C. K., on many points. It is the responsibilities of the administration, Govt., agencies to look after the basic needs of the people. What people can do when their needs are not provided as they were promised?
I have seen rich, influential and politically powerful breaks laws more than anyone else in India. By what authority Raj is asking people to move out of Maharatra. Does he have any “Jagirdari” over it? I am not commenting from the point of view of N. Indians, but also refering here past. In past they have done the same with other communities. Today India is going through difficult times, If Raj cannot stand by Nation, he is not worthy of calling himself as Indian. He merely reduces himself to Maharastrian.
Most of the time poor are victim of their circumstances and situation in society. And that is the reason most criminals has not so called affluent background. I don’t see anywhere Raj is against slums or sanitation problem. It would have been good if he would have really focused that issues, but here he is against Chatt puja, and increasing population and strength of N. Indians. Why is he targeting Amitabh Bachhan if he has only problem with slum and land and culture of Maharashtra. Can anyone show me how A. B has given rise to slums, sanitation and cultureless Mumbai? Slums are there before Raj was even born. Raj is threatening people and establishing fear in mind of people. He wants to control people. His efforts are in vain.
Can we expect peace and harmony from North Indians now? NO way! They are going to treat us the same way. A seed of discrimination of regionalism is gift of Thackeray parivar to India in the past and in the present. If you cannot do good to India don’t do but at least don’t harm the spirit of Indians.
If so called Maharastrian remains silent today and are with Raj, than one day this silence will be very harder for them only. They will find themselves under the water. How can we trust Raj towards Maharastrian when two Thackeray Parivar cannot stand even each other.
Yes I stick with my very first comment on this topic-that eveyone should straw up there own home first. And UP and Bihar should start progress and development. They canot wonder here and there. And they also has to fear god. It is my observation that most of the time Bihari Bhayaias… does not fear God and they resot to crimes. Nobody will like that also. They should make their govt., responsible for there poverty and needs of Job. Of course if they are educated and are getting jobs anywhere in India. They are free to go and do job and can still be loyal to their home town. Nobody can infringe this rights.
Hi patriot
You said, “…Each state must stand on its own feet and not expect alms from other states…..”
That is what A. B has done he opened up a Girls school so that his state can start standing on its feet. Than why does Raj has problem with that too? Why is he targeting A. B for not doing enough for maharastra and Mumbai and doing most for U.P. I dont have any facts and figures of what A.B has done for Maharastra or U.P. But if Raj is really concerned about so called issues than he would not have definitley said this…
“….Sanjeev talks about beggary and how that makes you less than human in another post and I think that applies to UP and Bihar. These states have lived on our alms for so long that they think it is now their right to be fed and clothed by the other people in India. Their moral compass is blunted to the extent that they threaten the very same state who gives them the money to survive….”
I dont see anyone threatned anywhere. It is just speculation that they were threatening us. An eye for an Eye makes the whole world blind. We are feeding our own countrymen and we boast so much. I can understand this frustration because in today’s world people are not ready to feed thier own relatives so forget about other states. What about U.states, U.K and Canadian Govt., doing so much for other countries. How can we forget help we received during Latur Earthquake not only them every state in India got united, helped and prayed.
“……To all those UP-wallas and Biharis crying themselves hoarse against Raj, I say, where does your self-respect go when it comes to reforming your state?…”
A. B is doing that lets support his initiatives.
I do agree with your many points on Biharis and developing there states. But I am focused on what Raj is doing and his contradictory speech and action for his political gain and inciting Indians against each other.
@Indian: Thanks for your comments.
***
@ Patriot: Re. your point #8 (in comment dated 24th Feb above), have a look at this report which quotes RSS chief Sudarshan as saying: “the outcry by Raj is against the Constitution and tradition of the country“.
You have also mentioned Advani and Rudi from BJP who have commented on the affair.
Has anyone came across Smt Sonia Gandhi or PM Manmohan Singh’s statement/reaction to this? Or are they above such “petty” matters?
Secondly, if as you say that the laws have been ignored or not implemented, the solution is not what Raj appears to have adopted (however “practical” it may appear to be)…If you believe that what Raj did is correct, legitimate or justified, I am afraid there is no room for discussion at all.
The displeasure that Mumbaikars feel towards the existing government has to be communicated via the ballot box…Surely if people are so upset, they will boot Congress out of power in the next elections?
Dear Shantanu,
Let us apply the Modi test to Raj. What did Raj actually do (or say) which you find offensive or against the law. Please back up with evidence.
Thanks.
Dear Indian,
You make some valid and some interesting points (not necessarily the same points!), and I will reply shortly. Thanks for your patience.
Cheers
Also, Shantanu, the “news” article that you linked carries neither a byline nor a press agency source. None of the major news papers have also carried this “news” article today, which i am sure that they would have done. And, this is SIFY, not even Rediff. Makes me think that the article is false, unless this is backed up by a major news source.
Cheers
Dear Indian,
Point no 1:
In my opinion, Raj “targeted” Big B sarcastically, because he is seen to be a SP lackey in Mumbai and Maharashtra – he is seen to be giving some credibility to the otherwise completely discredited duo of Amar Singh and Mulayam Singh. If you consort with casteist politicians to the extent AB does, you should expect to be treated at the same level.
Raj’s point was that AB’s main earnings were from Mumbai, but he does social service in UP (goes back to the cross subsidy issue), and not Maharashtra.
In any case, I think Raj made a mistake by picking on AB and trivialising a more important issue. To my mind, in the battle between AB and Raj, Jaya Bachhan (a Bengali) had the last word.
Point no 2:
Who has Raj actually threatened? Can you produce a link from any of his speeches, before he was gagged, where he actually threatens any migrant? All he says is that migrants should respect the culture and customs of Maharashtra. To which, Abu Azmi retorted by saying that he will distribute sticks to his supporters.
This is from the Police FIR filed against Abu Azmi:
“The police said Azmi told a TV channel on January 31 that ‘he would arm migrant population with batons if the MNS workers harm any migrant’. Later, he even distributed batons at Kandivli.”
So, who threatened whom?
Point no 3:
You say “We are feeding our own countrymen and we boast so much”. That is one part of the equation, there is another part, which people do not want to own up to.
If you have a good-for-nothing son/daughter in your house, you will continue to feed him/her because of love/affection/unity …. whatever, but will you let such a person make decisions about your family budget, family rules and family well being????
Do you know what the American War for Independence was fought on – No taxation without representation. The reverse can also be true ….. no representation without taxation. People in UP and Bihar need to recognise this.
And, if you think foreign aid is really free of strings (except for a disaster, and even there …..), then you need to wake up and smell the coffee!
The other part of this aid business is that yes, we are ready to help our countrymen in a disaster, for the next 2-3-5 years as they get back on their feet ……. but for SIXTY (60) years????? And, they are still as bad 60 yrs later if not worse than when we started? In such cases, do you not think that euthansia is advisable?
Point 4:
Why did the Judge say that he could not penalise Bhajji even if he did make racist comments against Symmo? And, keeping that in mind, why do the people of Mumbai/Maharashtra support Raj?
RE: Shantanu,
Here is my prediction for next year’s Maharashtra’s elections – it will be coalition govt run by the Shiv Sena/BJP/MNS or Shiv Sena/MNS. This is actually an issue that can galvanise the whole of Maharashtra, especially given “globe trotter” Deshmukh’s and “Cricket Baron” Pawar’s parties dismal performances on other issues ranging from electricity shortages to farmer suicides.
I wonder what the media and this blog will then say? Because the people would have spoken.
Cheers
Laloo, stay out of this …….. ooops, that’s gotta hurt!
http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1152998
Patriot: We are tilting at windmills here…
Please read my comment dated 23rd Feb in which I had said, “…I read the letter (somewhat huriedly) and it is clear to me that there are nuances here which were not apparent to me…In any case, it is a well-written letter which deserves a response…”
If Raj and his supporters are saying that they are not against common people from UP and Bihar, then I have nothing against them…
However you and I both know that ground realities are often different from press statements…While Raj’s letter to Sudheendra Kulkarni is definitely statesmanlike, the behaviour of his supporters on the ground is anything but.
The key question is this: Is “violence” or “threat of violence” justified to have your voice/grievances heard?
Secondly, if Raj and his supporters do indeed win the next elections based on this agenda, I would be the first to say, the people need to be heard…and if we don’t agree with them, we have to make our case likewise – through the ballot box.
Finally, a larger issue…and a question for you…
Would you justify secession by any state from India? on any grounds? or will you do your best to avoid it and to prevent it?
Dear Friends
Be Lion hearted.
INDIA IS FOR INDIANS by saying this I am opening a Pandora’s Box, or Am I not?
Late Mr. L.M.Singhvi Ex- High Commissioner of India to UK. I had some discussion on the term he used to use said ” I will call all Indian’s as BHARAT VANSHI” I ASKED HIM CAN YOU DEFINE WHO CALL THEMSELVES “BHARAT VANSHI” A Hindu, A Muslim, A Christian or A person who wants to identify him/herself as Dalit or those who would like for the sake of Reservation call themselves as “Minorities” Jains, Anandmargies, and Now Sikhs. Who are True Bharat Vanshi’s?
Once we settle this argument then Maharashtraian, Tamils, Kannadiga,s Gujarati’s can be identified as State Residents.
No state like’s domination by any other state by bringing out “demographic” changes. If Bihar and UP starts picking up markets and becomes economically stronger than Maharashtra, Then there will be different kind of migration. I am sure the UP/Bihari’s will have their own Raj Thakre’s.
Those Politicians who have standing in Public should not hide behind the curtains in such situations for the sake of Vote bank.
I hope I am not hurting any body’s feelings.
Dr. Ambekar.
Dear Shantanu,
I will answer your queries in two posts – as I think your latter question requires its own space.
You said “The key question is this: Is “violence” or “threat of violence” justified to have your voice/grievances heard?”
My answer is: I abhor violence – not just the threat of it but even the thought of it. So, I never think that violence is justified in any circumstances. The only exception I make is self-defence.
However, I have noticed the ambivalent attitude of people (maybe not you, specifically) on this blog towards violence when it is targeted at THEIR pet peeves. So, to that extent, I was messing with their heads. My apologies for that. Maybe you need to ask this question of your other bloggers now!
But, I think the point that Raj raises in his letter about Advani and Modi is very pertinent to this group. I would really like to see some cogent replies.
Cheers
I have read through most of the comments and it appears that the argument is centered on the actions of Raj and his supporters. But what do you think are the reasons for the actual migration? I am not for from mumbai and it has been a while since I visited the place. In general, people tend to move where there are opportunities. Migration subsides when there opportunities reduce. I would think the cheap labour that comes in the form of migration is being welcomed by the people there. This would go in to the service industry. Is it true? After all, maharashtra is not the only prosperous state in India. They could move to other states too.
Kosovo is now free
http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10727947
Shantanu
Fascinating discussion. Thank you. At the end of the day, I think it is due to very poor governance and apathy
Reading these disturbing happenings in Mumbai does not give me any pleasure, but it may be giving the enemies of our country immense pleasure. Our knowledgeble leaders are doing their work. “Breaking up the country”.
My work has taken me to a few defense locations and someone correct me If i am wrong, the lower cadre of the IAF, Indian Navy and Indian Army constitutes a majority of UP ‘ites’ and Bihari’s’.
The next time Mumbai Floods and the army is called to rescue lives, will the rescuing UP Army man think if the person he is saving is a Maharashtrian or from their state. For all those Instigated violence from Raj Thackeray’s action would they think whether the person rescuing them is a Maharashtrian first.
One only realises the “Perks” of living in Mumbai when they live away from it. The Dhobi who comes to your door during the worst monsoon showers, the Doodhwala who comes to deliver the “Milk” at 5am in the morning, the Watchmen, who stay awake during the hot & humid summer nights. Whatever it is Biscuits, Bread or Bhajipala. The “UP Bhaiyya” is a part of every Mumbaikar’s life.
“One only realises the “Perks” of living in Mumbai when they live away from it. The Dhobi who comes to your door during the worst monsoon showers, the Doodhwala who comes to deliver the “Milk” at 5am in the morning, the Watchmen, who stay awake during the hot & humid summer nights. Whatever it is Biscuits, Bread or Bhajipala. The “UP Bhaiyya” is a part of every Mumbaikar’s life.”
This is a common fallacy made by many people and I have had to rebut this on multiple occasions – just because you are providing a service, does not entitle you to break the law (squat on public land).
Second, I am happy to do without these services, if that means I will get a Mumbai free of slums and get my open lands back.
Clear?
I really do not understand why this is so difficult for people to understand:
No one is stopping ANYONE from coming to Bombay or residing in Bombay or earning a livelihood in Bombay. But, you should only come if you can afford the cost of rent in this city. By creating slums, you are raping the city from whom who are earning. How is that acceptable?
Stay in Borivili if you can not afford to stay in Sion. Stay in Virar if you can not afford Borivili. Stay in Dahanu if you can not afford Virar. BTW, the maids and many other workers that come to Kolkata every single day, commute from nearby villages. And, Kolkata also has many of the conveniences that Vijay was talking about above – so, how come these folks do not create slums in Kolkata?
This is not really about Bhaiyyas or Biharis or Tamils or Bengalis or anything like that at the core – this is about Bombay being destroyed by migrants who break the law, and use their poverty as the excuse (in which they are supported by vote grubbing politicos and brainless NGOs).
It has come to the point that we say enough, no more ….. or just let Bombay be destroyed and move on to some other city.
***
Vijay,
BTW, you know what caused the great Mumbai Floods? Slums clogging up the Mithi River so that the rain water could not be drained away into the sea.
Anything more to add?
I don’t think they are migrants they are Indians. Nobody is migrants in India, just because of different language and customs we don’t cease to remain Indians. Soldiers on border are for India and Indians not for Maharatra or Punjab or U. P. Only those who are highly intolerant and insecure they use the word migrants.
As per my view it’s ok to say Punjabi or Marathi or Gujarati to respect their custom, language and culture. (For happy note, we see many inter-caste marriages too now a day). I never heard this kind of arrogant words from any leaders but I keep hearing this from the same insecure and intolerant Maharastrian leader.
As if they can stand on their own without any non-Maharastrian beside them. You can’t accept all that good and throw all that bad. It is selfishness. I am not favoring Abu Azmi or anyone here. In past Abu Azmi was not in the picture, opponents keeps changing here and will keep changing in future, rest assure! Thackeray remains the same that shows who the spoiled brat. here. They have problem!
Sometime back I read some arrogant words by chief of Shiv Sena, for Modi, when he was felicitated by people of Mumbai. Shiv Sena got so much insecure and said something like that-“here Shiv Sena rules, Modi will not work”. Can anyone tell me why he needs to utter this kind of words when Modi is not locking any horn with Shiv Sena? Newspaper also took note of this and said “Thackeray cannot digest Modi”.
After this I started doubting- They are not here to work for the Hindus or Country men. What I find is they are highly insecure people.
They become insecure, intolerant and feel threatened as soon as they smell their vote bank is slipping and will hold fast the Maharastrian issues. They are ready to lock horn with their own countrymen and Hindus who are doing best for India. I don’t think as a Hindu or Maharastrian I can ever trust them. Those who are fond of free ride will support them.
As per Raj we should stop talking English in India and Marathi when we are in U.S., or U. K.? Shouldn’t we? By the way who is Raj to prescribe what resident should do and should not? It is sheer “DADAGIRI”. And in this he took lives of 2 Indians and damaged the public and private property, plus injured many physically and mentally.
It’s not you or me or Raj who is feeding this people. “dane dane pe khane wale ka naam likha hota hai” . It is immoral and unethical to pounce upon someone’s right, to livelihood. I have seen many families where they throw out their parents out of their home reason they cannot adjust. U.P or Bihari, whatever you say are working hard and ready to leave their home town in search of food. They are not that lucky who gets everything sitting in their home. Nobody likes to live the life of dearth.
Again I will say it is the Rich, influential and politically powerful who breaks the law.
No one would like to see 2 Indians fighting on the street. If this is the case, than we are no different from Intolerant Pakistan, towards other religion and Intolerant Indians, towards Indians from other region. In both case it is Intolerance that is playing the role to kill the humanity. Certainly there are ways to resolve conflict decently rather than dividing people from different region.
Every city has people from different region but Mumbai has more because- Film Industry and other multi-millions businesses- If someone is that tired of slums, land and migrants(in their language), lets go to this businesses and asked them to move and shift somewhere else to stop migrants coming to Mumbai. If someone is really interested in Mumbai will really do that. Why Not?
*** Combined Comment ***
Indian,
I think you are fixated on Thackeray and his family. I have tried to move the debate along by getting down to the core issues. But, you ignore the issues and go on ranting about Raj. Of course, it is your choice, but can not be bothered to reply to such rants.
If you can answer the questions I raise in my response to Vijay and my discussion with Shantanu, I would be glad to hear them.
Looks to me that you are more concerned about one “hindu” group fighting another “hindu” group? Is that really the crux of your problem???? Can not tolerate any dissent in the hindu community, is it?
And, yes, we are better than Pakistan in many ways but equally bad in some others and the recent episode is not the only one that comes to my mind.
For all the other readers here, this issue continues to escalate in Maharashtra, even if it is not longer visible in the TV:
http://www.indianexpress.com/story/278440.html
***
BTW, Indian, I called them migrants, not immigrants. Check the dictionary.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/migrants
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/immigrant
Also, following up on the previous link about the movie, here is one about MNS’ activities:
http://www.indianexpress.com/story/277979.html
***
If it were not for the tragic death of the two people in Nashik, I would be really enjoying this battle of the Bhaiyyas vs the Ghatis.
*** Comment Combined ***
Hi patriot
Certainly I dont need your reply neither did I replied you. It was not refered to you. This ofcourse is!
I don’t see any core issues or solutions in your any of your reply. My comments and opinions were not meant to please you. There are also other readers in this space let them read it. You go ahead with your core issues.
I am not confused with migrants and immigrants.
***
I am always in rush so cannot go much in many details and my replys are just my opinion it is neither meant to make you look bad or anyone else here. So please take it easy. I think any discussion must end with peace. And from my side its peace because I may not be longer available to comment for few days.
Thanks
Jai Hind!
Patriot: Much as I agree that the discussion needs to focus on the core issue(s), you cannot deny that “Indian” is right about a few things:
1. An Indian citizen has a right to move and settle anywhere in the country – without breaking the law of course. That right should not be up for discussion (I think).
2. The “timing” of this issue has a lot to do with Raj’s own election strategy/tactics and we should not pretend otherwise. The issue was not raised to be discussed in a sensible way, in a meeting – it was raised to attract attention, establish an agenda and a position – which it has achieved.
We may argue here on this blog or elsewhere about the core issues but I doubt if Raj or any of his partymen will seriously listen to any suggestions that you and I could come up with….(It is not true that they woke up suddenly to the fact that slums in Mumbai are “illegal”).
It is easy to dismiss the people who come to Mumbai in droves as illegal settlors and slum dwellors…It is a bit harder to think what might have driven them to this extreme step…
As I have said before, no one would willingly like to surrender their dignity and privacy and choose to live in a slum…as “Indian” has noted, “nobody likes to live the life of dearth”…
***
Anyways, I am taking “time out” on this discussion…with the request that if any of you have ready data on the GDP of each state in India and the contribution that they make to the central exchequer (by way of tax) along with the number of seats that they represent in Lok Sabha, that would be extremely helpful…
Thanks everyone for a great discussion.
Agree with Shatanu & Indian
You made a valid point above about the slums and Mithi river. Slums is a contributing factor, but not the only one. Check this link out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Maharashtra_floods
The In-Orbit Mall in Malad, MindSpace in Goregaon and Bandra Kurla Complex are also major factors in causing the Mumbai floods. Not to mention illegal Buildings (Not just slums). We only accept what we want to believe, for us its the Slums,if you ask the people living in slums,they may blame it on the malls.
Are politicians and the newspapers giving us the complete picture?
Apparently according to a recent survey by the MMRDA, the Slums are getting better place to live then the 100 yr old chawls in Mumbai.
In the UK, when any new development is planned, as per the regulations the Developer has to allot a % of homes as “Council Homes” or Economic housing. With the number of towers in Mumbai, can we expect similar from our builders?
Dear All,
I am disappointed in us for many reasons as we I read through this post:
1. We do not express or reiterate your views and then call a time-out. In fact, there should not be any time-outs – we should be perfectly capable of listening to others as we expect others to listen to us.
2. I think we get too involved in “first causes” when supporting or reviling an action. We do not first judge the action on its own merits. Everything is judged by our own contextual connotations.
3. We are too prone to attributing motives to others, while we either think we act from selfless motives or that our motives should not be judged by the same standards that we hold others to.
4. We do not apply the same standards in dealing with different violent political activity.
I am disappointed because this post was closely linked with the issue of freedom and liberty and tolerance in the other Freedom post. I deliberately took a provocative position to see how we would compare and contrast this with other violent political movements in the country.
I am disappointed because we are STILL governed only by our historic and cultural biases and by our refusal to even countenance that there could be an equally valid or even more valid opposite view. I can see why politicians have such an easy time in India and why the middle-class is still irrelevant to governance and politics in India.
Ok, time out for me (and not anyone else).
Cheers
“Indian” and Shantanu:
Both of you have in very elegant terms laid down the arguments.
Patriot:
I would just like to add and reemphasise some points:
1. The root cause of this controversy is political opportunism by Raj.
2. The problems of Mumbai lies in misgovernance by political parties of all hue and colour. Shiv Sena had ruled the state and Raj was an active part of their leadership then. What did they do to alleviate the problems of the city when they were in power.
3. Someone suggested that MNS might be part of the next government. We shall wait to see what constructive governance measures are brought in.
4. India needs and demands much broader perspective from a young politician like Raj. We are indeed disappointed that this was not to be in this case.
5. Finally, the root cause of all the ills that India faces today lies in governance or rather lack of it. The solution also has to come from good governance. The current political establishment in any part of the country does not give any hope for good governance. There is an immense need for new political alternative to give positive direction to Indian politics towards better governance. This is the gist of all political debates. Freedom-Team-India is one such initiative. See if you measure up to this challenge.
Thanks
*** COMMENT COMBINED ***
@ Anil: I just revisited this post after a while. Just a gentle rejoinder to you point # 2:
The Shiv Sena/BJP government built more infrastructure in the city during their 5 years in power than the previous 20 years of governments (Congress) put together. This is fact, not opinion.
Cheers
***
More identity-based politics?
http://www.indianexpress.com/story/292714.html
…hello vryone….i cldnt read all the comments…but would like to drop following points shortly and quickly….
1. i dont take any bodys side on the issue…may be i not well aware of all the political events related to this issue…but in generality would like to add…
2.i myself being born n brought up in mumbai….prouldy proclaim to be mumbaiker….but ofcourse i cant forget tat i am indian too…i have myself come across many incidents in trains busses and public places where upites, biharis are looked down upon and ill treated…..even elderly ppl…who expects respect…
3.now once again we have come up on the issue of we , we and we….our culture , our language , our ppl , our land etc…give respect to our language , our customs blah blah….what a beautiful political gimmick, as if maharashtrian culture and language is really at the verge of extinction….and it has to be revived by going on rampage against poor , helpless immigrants….
4. we have got tired blaming the shortcomings of hindu culture and religion, on the christians and muslim ideologies , that we have succesfully spared some time for fighting over among same religions and culture….kudos..
5.my basic question….are humans made for laws??…or …laws made for humans??…..upites and biharis coming in maharashtra and breaking the laws…cant somone think that their standard of living has bent down so much that they need to break laws for living and sustenance…..whats our duty towards our compatriots…..that we accomodate them…escort them to place of security….relax some laws for them…..upgrade their living conditions …so that they come to normalcy….but we are afterall law abiding citizens….why should we think on humans terms???
6.surely if some one doesnt have mercedes he shouldnt steal mercedes….but he can atleast rest under the shade of some one elses mercedes….or he is even denied the shade ???…if thats so….mumbaikers pls remember God is watching….and the time wont be far …when HE delivers a Mosses for the relief of immigrants to protect them against the natives tyranny….as what HE did roughly 3000 yrs ago to protect jews against the increasing oppressions of egyptians…
7. surely discipline and maintenance are most important factors of humans…but rember they should be used for the welfare of humans and not the vice versa….pls see MUNNA BHAI MBBS …as the message was something similar….
8.we hope of becoming super power…but for that first we need to become ‘Human power’….in the same way i wont blame Indian population but the incapacity of indian Govt. to handle and resource human population…..
I aplogize if offended anybody….
http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/jun/24thackeray.htm
Dear Sir,
The problem we are faced with is the reliance of poverty to sustain the politicians in power.
The people of India feel comfortable to keep many in poverty so that they can do service to act as a balm for their concience.
The poverty of the Indian mind is so averse to thinking on opportunities that each one has, that he keeps trying to harp on lost opportunities and offering small time sops to the poverty stricken to continue to keep up their iilussion that he is doing them a service.
Support for illegal immigrants is extended a they suffer from poverty in their country!! What a misguided philosophy?? Does it mean that my own countrymen should suffer to keep another country happy.
Yes, I do understand that the whole world is one, for the visionary and the utopian, but poor me I am still not evolved so much!! i think one should reflect on all this POOR AND SAD CASES! and appreciate that charity begins at home.
Somewhere we should make a beginning not to APPRECIATE POVERTY, but look at it as a scourge that one should try to eliminate it as we are trying to eliminate Polio from this world.
All this crying hoarse of the Right commissions for the support of the poverty against the interests of any nation should first be DESTROYED, so that people are made to understand that POVERTY is a scourge and should be eliminated from the face of this earth.
When we work towards this goal, may be we will see less of the agnst of one group against another.
Regards,
vck
Muslims use “Good Cop, Bad Cop” technique to divide Marathi and North Indian Hindus:
A classic case of the “Good Cop, Bad Cop” technique by the Islamic mafia to divide and rule the Hindus in India.
Please read the 3 articles below.
One Haj-trained Muslim (Haji Arafat Sheikh, educated in an Islamic school) leads a violent, anti-North Indian Hindu crusade on behalf of MNS and mocks the Hindu Chatt Puja.
Another notorious Muslim Jihadi (Abu Asim Azmi) becomes a self-appointed spokesman for the North Indian Hindus, offers lip-service (but no financial help to the Hindus, only to the Muslims) and trains North Indian Hindus to attack Marathi Hindus with lathis.
Its a win-win situation for the Islamists, either way.
Can someone point out this Islamic conspiracy to the gullible Hindu masses?
If the theme here is about “outsiders”, then someone should point out that the only outsider to India (and Maharashtra) is “Islam”.
==========================================
The Muslim face behind Raj Thackeray’s anti-outsider campaign
SHWETA DESAI
Haji Arafat Sheikh recently gave a “Hatt Puja” call in response to the Chhat Puja in Mumbai. That, he says, will make the birthday gift for his mentor.
MUMBAI, MAY 25: Haji Arafat Sheikh talks as if he were a teenager desperate to display some aggression- “I smashed the Railway board office at Bombay Central…destroyed the office.”
It was this aggression that saw him rise through the ranks of the Bharatiya Vidyarthi Sena, the Shiv Sena’s youth wing, and later, Raj Thackeray’s Maharashtra Navnirman Sena (MNS). The 31-year-old, who recently gave a “Hatt Puja” call in response to the ‘Chhat Puja’ that Bihari migrants hold, is one of the few Muslim leaders in a party that seems to be competing with its parent party, the Shiv Sena, on the fanaticism pitch. Sheikh was recently appointed the chief of MNS Vahtuk Sena, the transport union wing of the party.
Sheikh says his uncle, Shabir Sheikh, a labour chief of the Shiv Sena, was a major influence on him. But he admits it was the “dynamic personality” of the young Raj Thackeray, who headed the Bhartiya Vidyarthi Sena, that attracted him to politics.
“From the very beginning, Rajsaheb wanted to do something for Maharashtra. His love for the state was so strong that he left his family (Sena chief and uncle Balasaheb and cousin Uddhav), the party (Shiv Sena) and position (BVS chief), to form a new party for the development of Maharashtra,” he says.
Sheikh was young and barely out of his teens when he joined the BVS. The Sena’s anti-migrant stand seemed something worth fighting for, he says. “We bashed the Railway board office at Bombay Central station, where they were holding a recruitment drive. While the locals were unaware of the recruitment drive in Mumbai, people from up north had come in hordes for the exams,” he said.
Haji claims they first appealed to the railway authorities to give the locals a chance. “The officials said the decision wasn’t in their hands and that it was for the Centre to decide. So we simply destroyed their office,” says the Class 12 dropout of Anjuman Islam school.
After Raj separated from the Shiv Sena to form the MNS, Sheikh followed him. “Every party is fighting for Hindus, Muslims or Sikhs but Rajsaheb is one leader who has always fought for Maharashtra, not for any caste or religion. I was born in Maharashtra and brought up in Mumbai and want to fight for my state. There are hundreds of Muslims like me who have joined the MNS,” he says.
Sheikh says he wants to take Raj Thackeray’s “cause” further. “In 99 per cent of the cases, outsiders are responsible for encroachments and illegal hawking. They are widely responsible for the law and order problems in the state,” he says. “Leaders from North should take back these migrants and let them hawk on their roads, footpaths and every inch of public space. Only then will they understand what we are going through,”
As a gift for leader’s birthday on June 14, Sheikh will kickstart the “Hatt Puja” campaign against “outsiders” in the city illegally.
“We have formed area-wise squads of 25 people each who will dress the traditional Maharshtrian way—dhoti, sadra and topi—and watch them. They will then inform the authorities and appeal for action against the encroachers,” he said.
==========================================
Azmi to set up helpline and self-defence courses for migrants
May 5, 2008
Mumbai (PTI): Accusing the Maharashtra government of being hand-in-glove with MNS, Samajwadi Party MP Abu Asim Azmi on Monday announced setting up of a helpline for north Indians and proposed to start “self-defence” courses for migrants.
“In order to fracture the Shiv Sena’s votebank, I suspect Congress-NCP has a secret alliance with Raj Thackeray, due to which they are not taking action against him even after the provocative speech,” Azmi told reporters here.
Maintaining that taxi drivers feel “intimidated” after Raj’s rally on Saturday, Azmi announced the setting up of a telephone helpline for such drivers and also proposed to train the north Indians in using the ‘lathis’ on the lines of RSS for self defence.
During a rally on Saturday, Raj had accused the north Indians of trying to “invade” Maharashtra’s culture by intimidating the locals. He had asked everyone to speak in Marathi with the pre-dominantly north Indian taxi drivers and report the matter to MNS if they do not comply.
Equating Raj with Adolph Hitler for trying to divide people, Azmi announced that he would be launching an agitation against Raj at the historic August Kranti Maidan in two days.
Azmi said he would file a criminal defamation case against Raj for mentioning him as a 1993 serial blasts accused at a time when the Supreme Court had discharged him in the case.
“I am representing the over 50 lakh poor north Indians staying in Mumbai,” Azmi said when asked if he is trying to vitiate the atmosphere.
http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/002200805051863.htm
====================================================
Even though several Hindus were hurt in the attack below, Abu Asim Azmi helped only the sole Muslim victim financially.
Offers pour in to help Bihar boy hurt in Maharashtra train attack
9 May 2008, 0353 hrs IST,TNN
MUMBAI: The incident involving a seven-year-old boy who sustained injuries while travelling to Bihar by train, along with his family, has evoked strong reactions from the public.
On Tuesday, TOI carried a report about a group of unidentified persons throwing stones at the Pawan Express near Manmad junction on April 29.
While several passengers were injured in the attack, Mohammed Javed, who was sitting by the window, fell unconscious and slipped into coma after being hit by a stone.
Readers of this newspaper too wrote in, expressing their eagerness to financially help Javed. Many were outraged at the “hate attack”. “We should insist on action against this ghastly act,” wrote a reader, who said she was too “agitated and disturbed” to pen down her thoughts.
Another reader said that being a Marathi manoos, he “felt ashamed” about the incident and wished to express his solidarity with Javed and his family. He went a step further to suggest that MNS president Raj Thackeray should pay for the medical treatment of the boy, and until that happened, he himself would help.
Samajwadi Party MP Abu Asim Azmi met Javed’s family on Wednesday. “I met the family of the child and assured that we will take care of the child’s medical expenses. We will pay the entire medical bill,” said Azmi. He met DGP A N Roy and demanded that stern action be taken against the culprits.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Mumbai/Offers_pour_in_to_help_Bihar_boy_hurt_in_Maha_train_attack/articleshow/3023459.cms
The trail of events which took place in cities across Maharashtra can definitely be categorized as unfortunate not as entirely unexpected. The huge influx of people from northern states especially Uttar Pradesh and Bihar was building up resentment among locals and the comments made by Mr. Raj Thackeray, irrespective of the motive, genuine or political, gave vent to it.
While the comments by him can be labeled as opportune and politically motivated, the problem itself cannot be ignored. The feelings expressed by him have certainly met with an echo from sections of Marathi populace which testifies the existence of the problem.
The problem itself is multifaceted and cannot be stated by making rhetorical remarks or blanket statements. The reaction to Raj Thackeray’s remarks has been equally or even more hostile, not only from the expected quarters of political parties but also from self styled human rights activists, armchair social workers and bourgeoisie intelligentsia(likes of Shobha Dey, Medha Patkar,Arundhati Roy ). While such a behavior is expected from political parties, the baseness and shameless denial of situation on ground by certain section of media and intelligentsia is appalling.
People all over the world are moving towards cities in search of better work and quality of life( definition of which is certainly ambiguous), and India is no exception to that phenomenon. But there is an important difference. This internal migration is not uniform, and is heavily skewed towards cities like Delhi, Mumbai, Pune, Bangalore etc. Lucknow, Patna, Kanpur are not as favored by people as the former are.
Such a migration is an anomaly and disturbs the normal physiology of these cities and the nation as a whole. The capacity of a city to cope with an influx is limited and any transgression of that limit would certainly create problems for the existing population.
This is the brief nature of the problem and some commentators, (there are innumerable of them, often irresponsible, thanks to an anomalous explosion of mass media activities) painted horrendous pictures, created devils from ordinary men, and invoked parallels from world over which were utterly unsuitable and incomparable to the given situation. A rational assessment of the situation with a national mindset was needed which precisely was lost in the deluge of rants by self deluding speakers.
Firstly it is an internal, local matter between people from two different parts of the same nation. That these people belong to the same nation and ethnicity is an indisputable fact that cannot be overemphasized. It is a national crime to compare this migration to a so called Aryan Migration, which has time and again been proven to be the biggest lie and falsity in history, or to migration of people from Eastern Europe to USA or Russians to England. These comparisons were made by a CEO of a reputed IT company in an article in a reputed Marathi daily (Mr. Deepak Ghaisas CEO, Iflex in Sakal dated 11 February 2008). The first one never happened and second case involves people of different ethnicity and nationality. Hence comparing the given situation with any international situation is unacceptable. The fundamental difference between these two cases is that former involves one and the same people and hence the grounds on which migrants face opposition in both cases in completely different. In case of international migrations (as cited by the respected gentleman in his article) the opposition is primarily due to difference of nationality and ethnicity, and not always related to availability of resources (USA has ample resources at its disposal but it still prevents Mexicans from entering), where as in our case it is simply the matter of inverse relation between population and resources. This is just one instance from all the absurd comments that are being made.
On similar lines we can distinguish between legal migrations from any part of India to another, with the illegal “immigration” of Bangladeshis or people of other nationalities. There should not be any second thoughts on the issue of driving these people out as swiftly as possible. Even if Mumbai turned into a utopia all of a sudden by magic, with resources to accommodate any number of people, no Bangladeshi should ever be allowed to stay illegally.
Now, it is true that according to the constitution of India, any person should be allowed to go anywhere in its boundaries, buy a house there and stay as long as he wishes. This should be the case with any sovereign country with a strong central authority, which is what our constitution desires us to be. (I doubt whether we can include Kashmir in that, because the above said clause does not exactly apply to it. What a supreme irony, that Maharashtra, which belongs to the core of India, suffers from a constitutional provision, and Kashmir benefits from the same constitution which it does not fully adhere to.)
But the same, and very much desirable, constitutional provision does not advise us on situations where there is a conflict of interests. Since for an ideal constitution, as the constitution of India very much is, every citizen of India is a LOCAL of INDIA, and there is no other citizenship or identity. It is a document of mathematical precision designed to govern the affairs of a huge state and from which guidance cannot be expected in each one of the multitude of problems which we face every day. Such problems have to be dealt with accordance to intuition and principles of natural justice.
Natural justice tells us that if there is a conflict of interests in regards to utilization of resources, the local population should get precedence over people coming from outside. If there are enough jobs, roads, houses and all other civic amenities for all (which is extremely difficult to acheive if influx is far greater than what can be accomodated even if development is going on at full pace) then such questions would never arise. The major aspect of this problem is that there isn’t enough space for all the people currently living in cities such as Mumbai, Pune or Bangalore, a problem further complicated by unabated migration. Stating this fact is not being a regionalist.
Another minor aspect of the problem is the so called “cultural” differences between people from different parts of India. People who say that India is an entity (and not a nation) composed of various “different” cultures, are either naive, that is they do not know what they are speaking, or are dangerous traitors who pose a threat to our unified national existence. INDIA IS ONE NATION, ONE RACE OND ONE CULTURE. IT HAS BEEN SO ETERNALLY AND WILL REMAIN SO FOR ETERNITY.
What appear to be “different cultures” are in fact branches, which spring from a common monolithic central core. India is like a huge, old banyan tree, whose branches have grown so much that they appear to be independent trees. We are so very ancient as a civilization and nation that the branches have grown far and wide, but still are one and the same tree.
These are minor differences which can never cause a problem on their own, but can increase the intensity of a conflict when there is one. The problem is not Hindi vs. Marathi, (any Indian language cannot be pitted against any other Indian language, for that matter) but it may complicate an already existing problem. If there is discontent over migration, where the language of migrants tends to replace the local language, it adds fuel to fire.
I would like to compare the following situations with respect of language conflict along with the current situation in Maharashtra.
1) Anti Hindi riots in Assam (instigated by ULFA).
2) Anti Hindi agitation in Tamilnadu (As a part of Dravidian movement).
These two situations essentially had a separatist and hence anti-national agenda. ULFA is a terrorist organization which demands separation of Assam from India. The Dravidian Movement was formed to counter the hypothetical Aryan aggression on behalf of a hypothetical Dravidian race. These two situations utilized the perceived threat of Hindi to the local language and forwarded their anti national agenda.
In Maharashtra, the situation is totally different. Due to linguistic closeness of Hindi and Marathi, and Hindi knowing population being the superset of Marathi speaking population (Since practically every Marathi speaking person can at least understand Hindi, which may not be the case in Assam or Tamilnadu ) Hindi is fast replacing Marathi as the default language in public arena, in major cities of Maharashtra. People living in cities such Pune, Mumbai cannot dispute this fact. Everyone loves her/his mother tongue, and hence Marathi speaking populace is pained to see their language retreating in its own land.
The problem is the perception that Hindi being the “national language” should enjoy precedence over any other language. Every language in India recognized by the constitution is a national language (or “Official language” to use the precise term from the constitution) and there is no reason why any language should enjoy precedence over others. Moreover, numerical superiority should never be the reason for such precedence.
Rather one should consider every language in India as one’s own language and try to learn it, which again depends on the region one lives in. This is what principles of nationalism dictate. If I visit Tamilnadu and have to live there for a while, I should use that opportunity to learn Tamil as it is my own language. Hindi should definitely be preferred as a medium of communication between people having different mother tongues, since it is our own language, instead of English. But in Maharashtra, I see no reason, why people should talk in Hindi in general.
The current anti Hindi sentiment in Maharashtra, is only due to the peculiar situation elaborated above and is not remotely close to any of the examples cited above, which were essentially an expression of separatism.
Truth is that no one desires to leave their people, home, village or town. People are forced to leave by external factors such as education or work or by psychological compulsions (e.g. lure of city life, which is not that rosy as they believe). Everybody who vehemently castigated Raj Thackeray very well know the factors which forced people from Uttar Pradesh and Bihar to leave their homes and to come to overcrowded cities which many a times offer them subhuman conditions to live in. Ironically those who were championing the cause of North Indians in Mumbai are the most principal factors which forced them to leave their homes. These so called leaders are pestilential, base creatures who are enjoying lavish lifestyles while the people whom they are supposed to serve are leading rotten lives far away from their homes.
Nobody in Maharashtra hates Uttar Pradesh and Bihar. Not only for Marathas, but for every Indian, some of the most holy and sacred places like Kashi, Mathura, Ayodhya, Bodh Gaya, Lumbini are in these provinces. The all purifying Ganga flows through them.
Emperor Shalivahan drove away Shaka, Yavana and Pahalava enemies from north India and freed them from foreign yoke. When Aurangzeb attacked temples in Kashi and Mathura, Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj, wrote a fiery letter to him asking to desist from doing so, and assuring retribution if he proceeded. A large Maratha army honored its national commitment by confronting Ahmed Shah Abdali at Panipat, when he sought to conquer and ravage these parts of India. These acts were done in order to fulfill the national responsibility and hence no narrow regional sentiment can ever overshadow the Maratha thought which tarnishes this glorious tradition. This is a timeless truth which holds for Marathi people in general, if not for particular individuals.
The current disturbances should force us to find solutions to the deep decay in governance set in states like Uttar Pradesh and Bihar which forces the people there to leave their homes in search of livelihood elsewhere. Shutting the mouths of the likes of Raj Thackeray, is like using a pain killer as a remedy for a cancerous tumor, for the pain is just a symptom of the real disease which lies elsewhere and is much more dangerous.
Jai Hind! Jai Maharashtra!!
महाराषà¥à¤Ÿà¥à¤° राजà¥à¤¯ चा कायदा २० अ पà¥à¤°à¤®à¤¾à¤¨à¥‡ दà¥à¤•à¤‚दाराना मराठी मधे पाटà¥à¤¯à¤¾ लवने गरजे चे आहे..
आणि हà¥à¤¯à¤¾ कायदà¥à¤¯à¤¾ ची अमल बजवानी à¤à¤¾à¤²à¥€à¤š पाहिजे .
जय हिंद! जय महाराषà¥à¤Ÿà¥à¤°!!
I have empathy for the sentiments expressed by Mahesh here. I shall even more whole heartedly respect Raj Thakeray’s politics if he were to make atleast one clear statement on the Bangladeshis that have flooded Mumbai esp in areas of Dharavi, Bhendi Bazar. Raj Thakeray may have political compulsions and motives but that there is growing intolerance for out of Maharashta Indian citizens is a symptom that cannot be ignored.
A well known Tamil journalist has also acknowledged and written that the genilaity and friendliness of Maharashtrians has been abused and Marathi is increasingly been shown less respect. He acknowledges that this would be an implausible scenario in his home state-Tamil Nadu. It is in conceivable even in places like Bangalore/Karnataka.
The simple fact is that the language of the adopted state of residence is- at the end of the day- and Indian language and that it is only reasonable that not only should people who choose to live in a diferent state to their own should make every effort to assimilate by adopting language, customs and culture but also make sure that no dis-respect is shown to the home state, its language and customs.
Some of us who live and work in Europe live this day in day out. We adopt some of their traditions, culture and so do the Europeans who make another member state their own.
I believe that proclaiming “Indian first” is not going to dilute the message that Raj Thakeray is trying to get across but saying so will possibly endear him to the local Maharashtrians even more- for Maharashtrians have through long history demonstrated their own preference for “Indian first”.
Well done Mahesh, very good thoughts.
Best
Ashutosh
जया बचà¥à¤šà¤¨ ने आज जà¥à¤¯à¤¾ पà¥à¤°à¤•à¤¾à¤°à¥‡ महाराषà¥à¤Ÿà¥à¤° चà¥à¤¯à¤¾ लोकांची कà¥à¤¸à¥à¤•à¤Ÿ पनने टिंगल उडवली आहे ती खà¥à¤ª निंदनीय आहे. महाराषà¥à¤Ÿà¥à¤°à¤¾ मधे राहत असणारे लोकाना मराठी à¤à¤¾à¤·à¤¾ ही आलीच पाहिजे.
बचà¥à¤šà¤¨ कà¥à¤Ÿà¥à¤‚ब चे महाराषà¥à¤Ÿà¥à¤°à¤¾ विरोधी पण दिसून येते.. मराठी व महाराषà¥à¤Ÿà¥à¤°à¤¾ ची संसà¥à¤•à¥ƒà¤¤à¤¿ चा मन करावा. नहीं तर असलà¥à¤¯à¤¾ लोकानी महाराषà¥à¤Ÿà¥à¤°à¤¾ सोडून जावे.
Jaya bacchan and their family if they dont wish to accept marathi and maharashtrian culture.. they should go back from where they came from.
जय हिंद! जय महाराषà¥à¤Ÿà¥à¤° !!
*** COMMENT COMBINED ***
Mr. Patil
What do they mean by they can go back? Why Maharastra is so intolerant towards non maharastrian? I undersatand, with people who are working on street they might be giving trouble to residents and increasing crimes. But here, Why they dont have right to speak Hindi in maharastra? Why NRI’s dont speak their langauage in their community in other countries. Why we dont see movies in Hindi? Tomorrow Raj will say make movies in marathi if you are in maharastra. If his soul get satisfied with one issue, he will ask for more. Is he not acting like dictator?
Hindi is national langauage! Isn’t it? And they say jaya Bachhan insulted? What Raj Thackrey is doing? Is he nice to all? Is he not insulting anyone? Didnot he kiiled 2 person in his attempt to forced out N. Indians? Dont we think it was right befitting reply for Raj and mandali?
So Raj has respect for English and send his all children to Scottish school but Hindi big no no! What is he up to?. We can understand municipal, shops having marathi sighn board and that is great news, but now Raj is threatening people on small notes likes this and people make it big issue out of it? language of ager and teror…It is my land no body should spaek anything without their permission.
Did anyone sees Raj’s face? How it looks, it looks a man filled with terror and malign mind? His habit of disrobbing people in public will speak out one day? Just wait and watch.. He is behaving like a god and protector but nature never tolerated people like this on earth unless and untill it is to the benifit of man kind.
Why maharastra is always been compared with Tamilnadu? dont they see different between two states. One is almost dirty and other is always progressing with the help of outsiders and made proud place to live. Tamilnadu is ortodox and narrow in out look, and it has hardly been progressed by outsiders, see the difference.
Didnot they did the samee with Gujarati and talim in past? When they get reply back guys get furious. Those who have inbuilt nature of getting furious will find the small issue also an oppertunity to get furious. Spreading the seeds of rivalry on the basis of language is sown by Shiv sena in the past and now by Raj
I am not expecting any response from anyone because the person who is so mean by mind and spreads malign in country cannot have nice response.
Sorry for my words. I am not Hindi or non maharastrian either. But I speak a language of Bhartiya from Bharat.
Jai Hind!
***
Hi Shantanu
Sorry for my many errors in spelling and grammer in the above as well as in other comments. I try to put everything in one time. And for the matter of fact my English is also not great in writing, but I still I try to put my message.
Looks like the storm has passed: Jaya says sorry
or maybe not… Nothing but public apology will do: MNS to Jaya
@ Indian:
“Hindi is national langauage! Isn’t it?”
Hindi is not our national language ….. India does not have a national language. We have 14 official languages, of which hindi is one.
To people like me, living in southern India, Hindi imperialism is very detestable and completely avoidable.
BTW, I am not a Marathi by birth – but I speak both hindi and marathi, besides my mother tongue, which is neither of the previous two. I fail to see why the people who come to Maharashtra from the north for work would refuse to learn and speak marathi?
There is one point of Raj Thackeray that I have now put in practice – I talk to all my service providers, especially the cabbies in marathi – it is instructive to see the responses.
Cheers
well done patriot,
ur a true patriot, ppl like u will make india proud. we only need ppl like u who thinks abt themself first then others. who supports antisocial alliments just because ur gaining for it. just for ur benifit ur dividing country. it is gr8 to see that ur useing ur education and information in good use .
*** SENTENCE DELETED ***
patriot u support raj thakery cos u feel maharastra or mumbai is something spl and need to be treated diffrantely. u feel asham in taklking in hindi. infact we feel sad that we have ppl like u in country, who call themself indian….(EDITED)
i really feel sad that why we have ppl like u in our society. i m not against raj thakary cos he knows wht he is doing, he is working on his plan… (DELETED)
…can u tell me wht is spl in mumbai? wht makes maharastra special? how is maharastra or mumbai is diffrant then rest of india?there is nothing spl marathi ppl done for mumbai? i m not against any marathi or maharastrian ppl, but if one consider himself above other that is wrong. as indian we all are same. british ruled us and they developed mumbai cos it is near sea and it was easy for them to bring force and other infrastructure facility here. it is not any gr8 marathi manoos work, this is work of british ppl.
this work of british ppl invited many corporate ppl like wadia, tata, to set up there offices in mumbai.and the prograss of mumbai started.just becose british setup good infrastructure mumbai got some development.let me remind u that production and other work of all big houses are not in mumbai or only in maharatra. due to good infrastructur it was easy for corporates houses to expand and have better knowledge of world. after freedom this oppurtunity extracted ppl from india to come and enjoy the benifit of better facility. many big corporates made there big offices and that open oppurtunity for big empolyment. still they have only offices in mumbai, the real work or production is done outside mumbai in other parts of india. u can name any big person tata, ambani, wadia,jindal,obroi,dalmiyas,birla and many more noone is originally from maharatstra. but ppl of maharastra is enjoying benifit of there presence. it is this corporate presence which has the infratrusture and other good facility for mumbai and maharastra. this is not work of marathi or maharastrian ppl.
u argue that outsider come and build tent in front of ur house or on road. tell me can u build a tamboo on road without payeing bribe to policemen(who is marathi). then in this case who is more guilty, outsider or insider. maharastra is ruled only by marathi leaders can u tell me wht development they have done for maharastra.areas like dharavi is result of such leaders, who just wanna enjoy power by dividing ppl. marathi ppl are not bad and they are very co-operative. a true maratha will help everyone in need. and this is not abt marathi ppl, it is abt bad politics played by raj thakary and ppl like patriot supporting them. if u ask marathi ppl wht they feel, noone will agree that they r not indians.
ppl say outsider are killing mumbai. how they are killing mumbai, if u have migrant from other state then improve ur system, make room for those who are comeing. they will only add to ur revenue, they will improve u , they are here to build there career, if they grow mumbai/maharatra will grow.it is duty of politician to have this forsight and make proper policies and infrastrucure that can take this load. but they r hideing there past failure and lack of work by dividing us. do mumbai ppl knows apple they eat where it comes from? do they eat everything from maharastra. the wind they feel comes from himalay region. the mansoon they enjoy comes from north side. how can we figure out that which body part is more important then other? eyes have there own work, nose,mouth,hands legs stomach,liver head all parts have diffrant work but when all unite it become body. no value of single part same goes with india every little state comes toghether to form one country india. divided we fall united we stand.
all this saga is nothing more then dirty politics. friends open ur mind and see the actual picture. come stand toghether and give this politics a tight slap. let’s come toghther join hands to RAISE INDIA.
INDIAN CONSTITUTION ARTICLE 343.
Official language of the Union.—(1) The official language of the Union shall be Hindi in Devanagari script.
The form of numerals to be used for the official purposes of the Union shall be the international form of Indian numerals.
(2) Notwithstanding anything in clause (1), for a period of fifteen years from the commencement of this Constitution, the English language shall continue to be used for all the official purposes of the Union for which it was being used immediately before such commencement:
Provided that the President may, during the said period, by order authorise the use of the Hindi language in addition to the English language and of the Devanagari form of numerals in addition to the international form of Indian numerals for any of the official purposes of the Union.
(3) Notwithstanding anything in this article, Parliament may by law provide for the use, after the said period of fifteen years, of—
(a) the English language, or
(b) the Devanagari form of numerals,
for such purposes as may be specified in the law.
SO should ENGLISH which is also an co offical language of INdia. does ENGLISH qualifies as a national language?
@ Tarun: I have been forced to edit your comment and delete some sentences since they crossed the line of personal abuse…
I am not sure why you used those words against “Patriot” but I do feel that they were totally unnecessary..
You may disagree with his policies and comments but please be careful about levelling allegations – especially when you dont know someone personally…
***
All, I understand that this is an emotive issue but let us all please stick to civil language and reasoned arguments…
Abuse and incoherence never won any debates.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts…
I have nothing against signboards etc being in Marathi but to force immigrants from other parts of India to leave Maharashtra, that is simply not done. If Jaya Bachhan has commited a crime, she should be sued instead of being threatened.
P.S. Has anyone read/come across any statement by Sh Thackeray against illegal immigrants from Bangladesh? or do they not exist in Mumbai?
@ Indian, All: Mahesh and Patriot are right. Hindi is not the *national* language but the *official* language of India. In this context, some of you may enjoy this post. Thanks
Patriot,
So what you suggest is everyone should learn that 14 official languages? Are you kidding or crazy about just pushing people to the corner for not learning languages? Man, people has many other things to do. They are not born to learn only languages on this earth. And what you are practising is the great news because its your choice, the same way let other also enjoy their choice dont be like a hammer on them.
How many southern language did you learn? Oh! you may have got that oppertunity and super brain power. All are not genius like you Patriot, some are even dumb and dont know the alphbets of their own M.tongue, so forget about asking others learning any other things.
Not Marathi by birth but loving affair with Marathi, fantastic to know that! Dont your mother tongue will suffer in it? Patriot, practise what you preach. Are your efforts are to put marathi proud or disown it compeletly.
I am not telling about what you are practising. I am too following you, my family dont speak our mother tongues at home. My family is a union of 2 different backgrounds and had no time to learn each others language, no fuss about it. Hindi and English was the only language that came to our rescue. And family children are learning compeletely another languages, English and French. I dont think learning and speaking any language makes insulting to anyone! And Raj and band should’t think like that too! Be proud of people’s abilities to speak different things at different times. Because who dont watch Hindi movies, we all do? than why fuss? just show off! In case of Raj he is overdoing everything to show his love towards Marathi. Why not put a new law of sending kids to marathi medium in Maharastra. I will be the first to get please on it. Show your love completely towards mother tongue than person looks genuine in his/her love towards his efforts. When people are in maharastra for few days let them enjoy their days dont bother them by letting them know that they are entering language zone school. And it is very natural that after spometime people naturally develops to speak other language and they are proud to say also I can speak so and so. Who is asking Marathi in Maharastra to speak Hindi? They must speak in Marathi in their homes, Municiplas and govt., services, it is their state than only they can convey their message properly and to keep their language alive. But what raj is doing is completely opposite of what you are suggesting here.
I remembered one story from my childhood days…Monsters has unsatisfied soul and a demons ego. And people of monster’s town must satisfy unsatisfied soul and demons ego. For those who say no to monster will emit fire from mouth and eyes to burn other innocent souls. So people of the town will ask those who said no to oblige monster’s wish to protect the town from burning. Moral of the story as per my grandma was, those who said no was actually good for that monster with demons ego. It would have get pacify monster gradually after some time once his/her demands are not met. And monster had a chnaces to turn in to human and will be saved from getting in to the sin of burning the town. Who were the well wisher of the Monster? Those who satisfied the demons ego or those who said no to it?
Not Indians but most of the “West Indian” (Trinidad, Guyana, Tobago and many caribbean) understands Hindi too! They watch hindi movies double than English movies, and I was surprised to learn that most of “West Indian” family has collection of Hindi movies old and new. Doesnot that prove “HINDI” is our National Language. Now what you are gonna going to do about that? Is Raj has any plan to go to West India to tell them we have 14 officials languages. And we fight everyday on it and sometime also has demons ego to satisfy on daily basis. Nor the World or Constitution work according to your,my or Raj’s wish. Let live and let other live.
By the way it is not a question of not learning, question is force, misuse of power, threat and establishing fear and controlling people.
Tarun, I completely agree. Honestly, Marathis are very co-operatives and cultured people.
My love affair with “Shiv Sena” is also very unique, when they protect Hindus I pray for Bala Saheb’s health but when they become anti-hindu and more Marathi, I get upset and resent so much. Because I am possesive about Shiv Sena, they must be for all Hindus not for only Marathis. The same way Raj got upset with Shiv Sena and formed his party. When Lalu Prasad said; Shiv sena should be ban if they ban SIMI. I was hurt by hearing anything against “Shiv Sena”.
Marathi’s who are anti-non marathi please take note of this and work according to what people regards you and keeps you on highest honour rather than just becoming enemies of your own people. Draw out plan, dont threat people and issue fatwa on small issues.
I enjoyed your post about wind coming from Himalaya and… all that piece, its hilarious.
It is amazing to me how everyone wants to tell the poor mumbaikar what he should do in his city – if some poor bloke says why don’t we speak marathi in mumbai, everyone starts shouting about linguistic chauvinism and what not!
In the spirit of the thing, let me ask a few questions now and let me see how many cogent replies I get:
1. Have you heard Mr Karunanidhi or any of the other politicians in Tamil Nadu speak in anything but Tamil or English?
2. Ditto for Mr Chandrababu Naidu – Telegu or English
3. Ditto for Mr Buddhadeb Bhattacharya – Bengali or English
4. Ditto for the politicians in Kerala – Malayalam or English
5. Do you think if I went to Delhi or Lucknow or Patna and spoke marathi to the locals, I would get any response? If no, why not?
6. Have you ever travelled by auto in Chennai? Tried speaking to the auto driver?
7. How about an auto ride in Bangalore – our great IT capital? Tried to give directions to the auto driver instructions in hindi?
8. Have you ever been to Baroda or Ahmedabad – all the street signs are in Gujarati – forget even English.
And, yet the poor Maharashtrian is at fault because he is asking you to speak in Marathi in Maharashtra?
Wah, wah, what discrimination against the poor marathi manoos.
@ Indian:
“Not Marathi by birth but loving affair with Marathi, fantastic to know that! Dont your mother tongue will suffer in it? Patriot, practise what you preach. Are your efforts are to put marathi proud or disown it compeletly.”
Why should my mother tongue suffer because I speak in Hindi or Marathi or English? Why is it mutually exclusive? And, why should I have to either make Marathi proud or disown it completely? That sounds even more chauvinistic to me than what Raj Thackeray says. I say, be inclusive, rather than insular. Learn more, not less.
“I am not telling about what you are practising. I am too following you, my family dont speak our mother tongues at home. My family is a union of 2 different backgrounds and had no time to learn each others language, no fuss about it. Hindi and English was the only language that came to our rescue. And family children are learning compeletely another languages, English and French.”
Your family situation is very similar to mine – my wife and I come from completely different backgrounds. The spoken language at home is English. But, my wife is a very good speaker of Marathi (not her mother tongue) and I am a bad to moderate speaker of Marathi. But, my children talk my mother tongue with my parents (their grandparents), which is Bengali. They talk to their friends in English and Hindi. In addition, they have both learnt Marathi in school, and one of them is now learning French.
So, really, I do not see what is the big deal in learning the language of the place that you reside in and work in? I know plenty of IT professionals in B’lore and Chennai, who have learnt the local language, not that they needed to. So, when the people of UP and Bihar, residing and earning their livelihoods in Mumbai, refuse to do so, to me it looks like a deliberate snub, a deliberate insult to the place they are living in. And, that is my level-headed assessment, and nothing to do with what Raj Thackeray is saying.
And, the other thing to consider in the light of this discussion, is whether we need to completely re-organise our states and get rid of the linguistic principle, ab initio.
*** COMMENT COMBINED ***
@ Indian … i dont think anyone needs to learn 14 langauges in his entire life time .. but if a person from one state of origin has permanently settled or being staying in that state for more than 3 years.. then its his moral and intellectual responsibility to learn that states language… even a baby can learns a language in 2 years
MNC’s like Mercedes and BMW’s whose plants are in Tamil Nadu.. even a foreign official of these companies when they come to work in Tamil Nadu.. learn Tamil…
If foreigners can learn and talk Tamil or any Indian language… why are some of the people adamant to learn
their the state language where they are staying for ages?
Today Amitabh Bachhan had taken a press conference and apologised publicly on behalf of his wife.. but JAYA wasnt present at the press conff… this shows how adamant JAYA is and how prantawadi she is.
Patriot and i always deffer on all of the issues but nice to know he is on the same side as mine on the issue which matter me the most . And what you are practising is quite remarkable with the cabbies or at any places.
महाराषà¥à¤Ÿà¥à¤°à¤¾à¤¤ मराठीच बोलà¥à¤²à¥€ गेली पाहिजे ; Marathi and only maratha wherever possible is what to spoken in maharashtra.
Indian has also mentioned that marathi schools should be made compulsary.. yes we are in the process of demanding all the schools in Maharashtra should have Marathi as a compulsary language… but at the same time for Marathi people there is no harm in learning ENglish French german, Hindi or bhojpuri… because its always helpful for marathis people to know what the opposition is accusing us of in their mother tongue…
Tarun there is something called as vaastu… The land of Maharashtra is very much blessed by nature in the form of wonderful sea port and its strategic position in India further the land of Maharashtra has produced people like Chatrapati SHivaji Maharaj Bhosale, Chatrapati Shahu Maharaj, Sant Tukaram, Mahatma Phule, Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar , Tendulkar, Lata Mangeshkar, Asha Bonsale, Balasaheb Thackeray… we dont require any outsiders to built Maharashtra or Mumbai they have come here is because of the land of opportunity … marathis havent invited anyone. And if anyone wishes to leave mumbai on this issue they can..
And whatever contribution made my non maharashtrain was payed in Cash+interest (Rs50 crores) to the non maharashtrian community in 1960’s for whatever they have done for Maharashtra HISAB CLEAR by Maharashtra govt so no one can say Maharashtra and Mumbai is there because of outsiders.
DHaravi how many of u have visited dharavi??..
please visit it and then comment.. its no more the largest slum.. you will find MHADA buildings and 90 feet and 60 feet wide roads…
Shantanu actually in wont preffer to advocate for Raj…. in Public raj has made open statements regarding bangladeshis or how some congressi coroporators are alloting reserved plots to built new slums … MNS is also issuing written complaints to JaiRAJ PHATAK.. MUmbai Corporation Commission.. on these illegal slums occupied by outsiders mostly bangladeshis.. but no response from mumbai corporation.
Further he also issues regular press releases on Farmers issue, terrorism in India etc.. but media doesnt covers
जय हिंद! जय महाराषà¥à¤Ÿà¥à¤°!!
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A law has been passed to make Punjabi compulsary till 10th std in all the govt and private schools in Punjab.. a similar law should be made and passed in Maharashtra to make Marathi as a compulsary language in all the schools present in Maharashtra public or private
@@ just checkin .. do paste instructions for font size/ font color/underlines if possible
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Good idea, Mahesh…thanks for the suggestion…I have just downloaded a plug-in. Let me see if it does the trick
Mahesh
Foreigners are very shrewd they will learn everything for their business. And person who stays longer will automatically learn Marathi, and I have seen many has picked up well. Nobody dictated and they did it. Babies minds are more powerful than adults. Its not possible for every adults to learn new languages, one has to keep in mind human limitation also. People only understands the language of love not force. As a leader you know that very well.
Patriot
My question was obliquly asked, not to sound as chauvi.. or what ever you said. But you accepted that Raj sounds like chauvinist. Thankyou! For your other reply you need to read my comments again nothing is said differently what you said.
None of my family members are Hindi and I am fighting for others right. And you too non-marathi but fighting for others right. I think Patriotism is best at work.
Mahesh
I forget to put this in above comment. You said Jaya didnot said sorry. May be because she thinks she has not offended anyone any where, so she might not ready to say sorry or she already said sorry because she knew that it was not her intention to put anyone down. Why do you expect Jaya to accept sorry in the same manner as of Raj?
Other question dont she has freedom of expression and speech? Do Raj practises all these what is he asking from others? people dont have this much right to defend themselves? Are we not playing the card of prantwadi? Raj already torchered them enough. Most of the community says he is taking revenge as he was not invited in Abi’s marriage. Because as a matter of fact this is the first reaction from many when they see the issues from the top.
I would always look with the perspective of justice to all, not for marathi or bengali or hindi or punjabi. In the presence time unity amongst hindu is very much required so I will always advocate for it whether some likes it or not.
Patriot, Mahesh, others in Mumbai, Maharashtra: Can you please comment on this article (reproduced in full):
How the media created the Raj Thackeray bogey by Mahesh Vijapurkar, September 09, 2008
If UP-ites and Biharis have been thrashed in Mumbai and elsewhere by Raj Thackeray’s Maharashtra Navnirman Sena and now the Bachchan family has been targeted, thank the media, both the television and the print variety.
Not just because the media have been giving Raj Thackeray’s campaign full, wall-to-wall coverage but because the media gave him the cause. Strange, but true. And also tragic.
Here is how it all happened. Go back to February of this year. To an evening when Raj Thackeray, with a party in hand which was more like an NGO and not a splinter of the fiery Shiv Sena, gave a speech at a small event in Vikhroli, a central suburb of Mumbai.
Paraphrased in English, his Marathi speech went something like this: Amitabh Bachchan [Images] lived and worked in Maharashtra’s Mumbai but ran to Allahabad to contest elections to the Lok Sabha, picked Bhojpuri for acting in non-Hindi films and be the brand ambassador for Uttar Pradesh [Images], and when it was the turn to gift a girls’ school, it was to UP. What, he asked, was wrong if Raj Thackeray too loved his Maharashtra?
Note that there is no criticism of Bachchan here but only a telling comparison with him. Even Raj Thackeray liked to compare himself with the Bollywood icon. He presented to the audience the strength of his love for his own state. There was this me-too in Raj Thackeray.
But what did the newspapers do? They reported that Raj Thackeray criticised Bachchan. Far from the fact, that.
But then freedom of expression by distortion marred the media’s claims to credibility and television, which showed the footage of Raj Thackeray’s speech — better than a quote in print — jumped on the bandwagon, silenced his words and used voiceovers with content akin to the print’s contention.
The media thus did a Frankenstein, revelling in its own doing.
The media was given another opportunity to correct the perception. In Pune the day after fierce opposition to Raj Thackeray’s reported speech emerged in the public domain, with everyone calling him a misguided chauvinist, he held a press conference. No, he did not criticise Bachchan but compared his own love with that of Bachchan’s for Uttar Pradesh.
Did he not say at a rally in UP with stalwarts of the Samajwadi Party present that whatever his present residence, he always remained a Chora Ganga kinarewala — , the boy from the banks of the Ganga?
Despite Raj Thackeray’s patient presentation, the media missed the woods for the trees and kept to the same refrain — he panned the UP-ites and Biharis.
On Monday evening, at his Mumbai press conference to denounce Jaya Bachchan’s remark that she was from UP and that people from Maharashtra should excuse her for speaking in Hindi, he predicated his statement with a recall of his Vikhroli speech. He had compared himself to Bachchan. Television channels, especially Star Majha, telecast lengthy excerpts.
Again, the media missed the woods for the trees. Of course, by now the old lie had to be protected and what would be juicier than report on the ban on films starring any of the Bachchans? Drona [Images] (starring Abhishek Bachchan [Images]) and Bachchan Senior’s The Last Lear [Images] were set to release. The products endorsed by them were to be boycotted and that was juicy meat.
Raj Thackeray, no babe in the woods, and in search of a political platform which would yield him his constituency, seemed to have decided within the first week of February that the issue was not only engaging a media which had made up their minds but seemed to catch the imagination of his cadres who would otherwise dump him if they saw no future with him, made the lie his truth. And with good results, too.
Hasn’t his pro-Maharashtra and anti-UP-ite, anti-Bihari stance unnerved the Shiv Sena by walking away with its original Marathi manoos plank? What better than to tell his cousin Uddhav that he had touched the chord of the middle class Marathi people while the Shiv Sena, with its Hindutva and other on-now, off-again planks, was ideologically floundering?
Senior Shiv Sena leaders have confided in me that Raj was smart, much more than he was credited with, to have co-opted the ‘media misreportage’ into a political campaign. If you can’t fight ’em, join ’em is the way he chose to go.
Not only did the media breathe life into the MNS which did not take off at a trajectory which would make it an electoral challenge to any political party, but proved that Irving Wallace was bang on target in his 1982 novel The Almighty in which the power-hungry media-owner Edward Armstead’s obsession was to shape the news and then manipulate and control it with disastrous consequences to the world.
Here, the Indian media’s obsession to shape — or sex up? — a story to its worst distortion has come to the fore. And without anyone even batting an eyelid in concern.
What further mischief lies ahead? Can we trust the mass media? The reader believes the printed word and sees television, despite its limited depth — or actually, the absolute lack of it — as real because he sees live images.
It is quite possible that pundits with access to the media because they speak the politically correct lingo would lampoon me for being a Raj Thackeray apologist — if they have no arguments, they tend to shoot the messenger — but the fact is that the present MNS campaign is a demon created by the media.
Before you assault me, interview reporters who covered the three events — Raj Thackeray’s Vikhroli speech, his Pune press conference as well as the latest on Monday at the MNS office — and check the video footage available with the television news channels. You will know the truth.
I, of course, stand by my contention. The media has lost its head and plunged the region into trouble, jeopardising lives and property by its irresponsibility.
Source: http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/sep/09guest.htm
I heard a debate on NDTV where how media people sensetionalise a story, and to avoid this in future recently media houses have set a self regulatory body.
And its not just in Raj thackerays issue but also in Arushi – hemraj murder
The anchors in the news channels are not reporting the story but are putting their own self views forward and make their point which is totaly wrong. They should just play the role of a moderator and reporting.
Some of the channels like India TV nowadays are showing interviews yumlog.. or interviews with an Alien.. what rubbish.
Rest i concur with the above article
जय हिंद! जय महाराषà¥à¤Ÿà¥à¤°!!
http://blogs.bigadda.com/ab/2008/09/10/day-144/
Some of the readers will really enjoy this. The issues of all anti-non maharastrian are created for creating political ground, fulfilling their personal weaknesses and agenda.
Nobody gives anyone anything here, its by personal virtues, moral ethics, hard work and god’s blessings people enjoys what they get. Rest just follows by god’s grace even a support they get or donot get is decided by god.
HOW TO RESPOND TO THACKEREY
Let us then take Raj Thackerey’s Nationalism to it’s logical conclusion.
Let us then break India into 1.3 billion separate “Nations”, each with a population of ONE.
(After all if we have room for 36 crore deities in our country we can have room for 1.3 billion “Nations” too.)
From now on let us respect the language, culture, beliefs, aspirations, freedom, property and sovereignity of each of these Nations and an attack against the independence of any of these “Nations” should call for a Nuclear Response from the “Nation” violated against the one who dares to violate the sovereignity of the other.
It is that kind of assertion by the Individual Citizen Nation of his rights that will stem the rot, not the language of appeasement and cowering posture taken by the Bacchans.
N.P. Singh
A Nation of ONE
Not Free Yet
But Aspiring to be Free One Day on My Own Terms.
@ Indian: Thanks for the link…I went to have a quick look and ended up spending 30mins on the site!!…
My respect and regard for “Big B” has gone up…Bachhan-ji is amazing and I feel pride in saying he is an Indian…
Coming to Jaya-ji’s remarks…my first instinct was that they were made in jest (as the TV footage suggested as well)…Amit-ji’s blog post confirms that there was no malice in those words…
Is Sh Thackeray so desperate for an emotional issue to rally people around that he has lost his sense of humour?
For god’s sake, this was just a casual remark…let it be!
Anyways, to those of you who have not read Amit-ji’s blog before, I suggest you have a look…but be warned that it can be addictive!
Marathi Manhoos, because he doesnt have anything purposeful to do in life, like brats pulling aprt a butterfly’s wings, decided to play a similar game with Bachchan senior – made a nasty remark that when Bachchan decided to contest elections he didnt do it in Mumbai but went to allahabad in UP!!
Marathi Manhoos was peeved that Bachchan didnt prostrate before the Manhoos to seek his patronage to win the elections. Reminds me of yet another nasty ‘M’ word. And so like any normal self-respecting wife who also is intelligent, feisty and refuses to be cowed down by antedeluvian chauvinists, Jaya Bachchan made the completely natural crack that she wants to speak in Hindu because she belonged to UP. In her place, I would have said something a lot more blunt and unsparing.
Marathi Manhoos declared Jaya had offended the pride of the Marathi Manhoos. Since MM made it a blanket phrase, I presume it includes Haji Masthan, Dawood Ibrahim, the two Chchotas, all Memons from tiger to pussycat.
Now Marathi Manhoos is not only generally jobless he is also willing to play moneybags’ mercenary to make humiliating the First Family (not the CNN-IBN, 24 Hr First Family) his life’s mission hoping that someday he will be able to rub their collective noses in the dirt. I can understand his angst – he is not breathtakingly tall, he doesnt have a breathtaking baritone, he doesnt have a wife with an identity of her own (his antedeluvian attitude will not permit such a perversion), he doesnt have a breathtaking son and a breathtaking daughter-in-law. he is also not a mind-blowing icon in Bollywood with a talent to match the iconhood. Now these are driving-him-crazy reasons to want to humiliate a family that stands united and tall. They dont have to split up their family to develop a self-identity.
Bachchan makes a gracious apology, jaya didnt and I salute her for not cowing down to the mafioso. Ouch, my tongue tripped pl believe me. But Bachchan’s apology for hurting his ‘brother’, I salute his self-control for not allowing his tongue to trip on the ‘B’ word, has made the marathi Manhoos look like Rumplestiltzkin (perish the spelling), you all know what I mean.
—————————————–
Marathi Manhoos has his species in Tamil Nadu and Karnataka – the Red-blooded Green tamils of Dravidian land and Vattal Nagaraj in Bangalore. At the height of the Hogennakal row when there was real danger of scum on either side of the state borders setting both states aflame for red-blooded green tamil manhoos and kannada Manhoos, Rajnikant was made the sacrificial goat. kannada Manhoos declared that Rajnikant must speak for kannada Manhoos, else his films would be banned, posters burnt and theaters vandalised. Red-blooded Green tamils declared rajnikant must speak for Tamil Manhoos because he made all his idli, vada and sakkara pongal in dravidian paradise.
Bachchan or Rajnikant, it takes more than these Rumplestiltskins to diminish them. Maybe they should try walking on stilts to reach up.
My brilliance takes my breath away. RR
@ Radha Rajan
There is no comparision between Rajikanth who by birth Maharashtrain but chose his work field as Tamil Nadu and now is loyal to Tamil Nadu… unlike Mr. Bacchhan who is born in UP and workfield, Maharashtra … but still loyal to UP.. maybe he should and has learned a couple of things from Rajnikanth.
Further Just imagine if people from Maharashtra like Tendulkar, Mangeshkar and Bonsales just mention themselves as Maharashtrain only!… NO they wont .. because they know they are a national icon and they cannot be biased to a single state. which the bacchan family still doesnt get it.
Amitabh bachhan sir .. its not just UP or Maharashtra people who love you.. its the whole India.. please dont be biased towards a single state.. you are our hero and a National icon and not a UP sarkar icon
@ SHantanu
Come its plane and simple to understand Jaya bacchans comments were well from her heart against Maharashtra.
You tell me why a person by origin from West Bengal have soomuch love for Uttar Pradesh… answer is simple …just because she is an MP from Samajwadi party in Uttar Pradesh.
She on her own still hasnt offered a public apology to Maharashtra..
Secondly i would like to highlight it was Jaya bachccan who recently in Rajya sabha asked to create Mumbai as a seperate state from Maharashtra…! this in itself shows how much she loves maharashtrain public.
Lastly after Jaya bacchan comments, if you would see any news channel polls or street voice
1)How many people thought jaya bacchan insulted maharashtra ? 93 to 97% people thought she insulted
Let me remind again, maybe Raj thackeray was the catalyst but it wasnt Raj thackeray who united Maharashtra.. it was the Marathi spirit which united against jaya bacchan’s remarks
And no it wasnt a causual remark, it was a total political remark… for which jaya will definately benifit in Uttar Pradesh.. take my word.
जय हिंद! जय महाराषà¥à¤Ÿà¥à¤°!!
Mahesh: I have made the correction
Dear santanu,
thanks for editing my comments. i was not against patriot but even i feel i went little ahead. thanks for rectifying my mistake.
friends we all accept that all this saga is politics. we all understand and agree whatever raj is doing, is for political gain. After reading all the argument raj and his supporters give I feel this is not a small problem. This movement is actually dividing us. This is setting stage for dictatorship. Is this is wht world called democracy .
they say in every other state ppl talk in there regional language so we will make marathi compulsory here. Do that peoples kill or burn u or damage ur property if u don’t talk in there language? Do they force u to leave there state because u don’t speak like them? We are not against marathi or marathi people but is it right to say , only Marathi can live in Mumbai or u have to learn Marathi to live in Mumbai? U makes Marathi compulsory in school and make all government work in marathi too. If anyone have problem understanding or dealing with goverment he will learn Marathi. It doesn’t means that if once don’t know marathi he can’t stay in Mumbai.
Argument is maharastra paid to nonmaharasrian a sum for there work and now hisab is clear. (this really makes me smile). We call bharat our MATA, and all bhartiya our BROTHER and SISTER. Can anyone pay debt of mother in his lifetime??? Can one calculate everything in money values? Can we calculate Gandhi ji’s contribution in money? Can we calculate value of life of jawans who lost there life fighting for bharat including maratha bridage? Try and tell there parents take this sum and thanks a lot for ur contribution. Friends everything can’t be calculated in money only.
Today we need to understand all this dirty politics and have to unite to fight against it. Media is just doing wht it does best “adding fuel to fire†or showing just wht gives them maximum TRP. But whom all this things are affecting? Who is suffering because of all this? We we and only we. Common guys stop fighting within ourself. We shd see others stranght and not weekness. We shd work like a team then only we can succeed. Look at japan after Hiroshima it was divastated but now world respect japan’s technology. China stun the world with it’s power(human power & technology) in this olyampic. I m not telling India don’t have things or brain, but one things is sure Indian ppl are not doing good to improve our image . I don’t want our country to become like Russia lots of good things but still fighting within problem. It is in our hands to make or break India. It is very easy to fight , but very hard to keep everyone united. No country in world or no one in world has succeeded alone, it is always team work. We have gr8 minds and ppl but still we are not united and that is the only thing which is stopeing us from becoming great nation. World really laughs on us ,when we says India is growing, developing but people knows truth. Common friends now it is time to stop fighting and start doing, let’s don’t make ourself fool and really do work to develop India.
I dont understand why people in this age too are harping on Maharastra, Bengal, Rajnikant, AB, apology, insult and strength of manoos, when India is one. I hear these words all the time in media. Those who thinks India is not one should go to school again. I found good words somewhere when I was on cnn-ibn comments “Stop reducing National icons in to Regional icons”.
No body thought Sachin or Lata or etc… as Maharastrian, they got all due as an Indian. They are their because of their virtues and hard work not because of Maharastra or so an so. If I go by Thackreyes words that ” AB and SRK have earned everything in Maharastra”, than any one can do this in Maharastra. Why Maharastra failed giving to poor in Maharastra, when they can give so much to AB and SRK. Nothing in the goody for us? I can too go and resent! Why are we going other countries for our earnings? Lets all make it what AB, SRK and others have done by being in Maharastra. But the fact is, everyone’s destiny is different nobody is feeding anyone. Its just shows arrogancy to utter such words.
Imagine if Film industry gets moved somehwere else, think how many future film celebraties would like to go to Maharastra?
Those who raised an axe against others hurt their own toes and asking for the apology. Before asking apology lets we too apologise who got hurts by our acts and the words.
Lets go in deep who gave Jaya this oppertunity to put this words in media. Thats because Maharastra is asking others to stop playing regionalism but they play regionalism at fullest. Only preach what we practise.
Expected legal moves and agitation for illegal Bangladeshis in Maharsatras after train blasts, rather than for N. Indians. Where happened to the unity of Maharastra? Are illegal immigrants are easy on Mumbai or Maharastra? Killing the people of Maharastra by human bombs is less important than raising the voice of pride for Maharastra? May be media is at fault! Does any one has a figure of how many marathi lost their loved ones in train blasts before we talk about Marathi’s proud figures. When Modi can catch the culprits what obstructed Maharastra to do that arrests? Many occassion Raj said indirectly ” He carries police department, justice department in his pocket”. What is he waiting for? Why dawood is absconding? It seems it is easy to show strength and targets soft but difficult to put strap on hard targets
This is my last comments on this topic. I am trying to be Indian first than so and so. So it is very genuine who are regional may get hurt by my comments. I ask for sorry in advance and please forgive me If my opinions and thoughts are not as of yours.
Always Jai Hind!
Maharashtra has always been on the forefront in any kind nations development programs. And time and again fulfilled the national responsibilities.
But when it comes to internal problems one has to listen to us and not wash your hands from the problem by saying Maharashtrain is dangering the integrity of India by raising this kind of issues.
I beleive in “Unity in Diversity” … the latter word diversity is important to mentian in India , the diversity of culture will only ensure unity in India. So each and every states culture has to be preserved … we cannot infuse globalisation in everything.
Maharashtra right from independence have received a step sisterly treatment by north indian politicians. We had to sacrifice 105 lives to form Maharashtra state.
Maharashtra has always been taken for granted by the politicaly powerful northern states.
Its about time to see Maharashtra being politicaly controlled by Maharastrains and not from Delhi 10janpath.
The movement to preserve the marathi culture in Maharashtra will continue
जय हिंद! जय महाराषà¥à¤Ÿà¥à¤°!!
All: I am picking up this thread from some valid questions raised by Patriot in his comment dt Sept 10th (# 56). Here are my responses…I would encourage everyone to respond as well…
***
@ Patriot: Below are my responses to your questions:
1. No: Have not heard Thiru Karunananidhi or any other TN politician speaking in anything except Tamil or English
2 – 4. Ditto
5. No, you will only get blank looks…The reason is simple. They do not understand Marathi.
In Mumbai (and in many many other places in India), if you speak Hindi, you will be understood…Is this because all the taxi-wallahs/ rickshaw drivers are from UP/Bihar? Perhaps a large majority of them are…But you cannot deny two other influences…the teaching of Hindi in schools across the country (the three language formula perhaps contributed to this: http://education.nic.in/cd50years/u/47/3X/473X0I01.htm ) and the influence of Hindi movies..(which does not get discussed about much)…Indeed so dominant is the influence of Hindi movies that the vast majority of people when theya re think they are speaking in “Hindi” are actually speaking in Hindi that is laced with Urdu and Punjabi words (and more recently English words as well).
In that sense, Hindi is fairly distinct having some semblance of a pan-Indian identity vs. say Marathi or Malayalam or Bengali. Hence speaking in Marathi (or Malayalam or Bengali) may not help you in Delhi, Lucknow or Patna but speaking in Hindi will help you in Cochin, Mumbai or Kolkata.
6. Auto in Chennai – I have only travelled by bus – and that was more than 17 years ago! so I am not qualified to comment (and before you ask, I spoke to the bus conductor in English – Unfortunately, I dont speak any Tamil)
7. Auto in B’luru: Here I am on firm ground…My most recent experience was just over 4 weeks ago. I made three short journeys (under 30mins) and all the three times I spoke in Hindi, I was understood and more interestingly, I was not resented…(and I did get to where I wanted).
The most suprising bit though was that the driver of the taxi I took from the airport to the city was more comfortable in Hindi than English..and he was not from UP/ Bihar but from Belgaum.
8. Baroda/ Ahmedabad: I was in Ahmedabad in June but I was not really paying attention to the street signs – I will pass on this.
What does all this prove?
That a lot of cities and people in India are very comfortable with their lingual identity…ANything wrong with that? No. If Raj wants more people to speak in Marathi in Mumbai, good for him but can he force people to do that? I dont think he should…Can he force people to change road-signs and shop names? No. Can he ask the government to pass a law to this effect? Yes. And if there is such a law, would I suggest everyone follow it? Yes.
Does that mean that people who do not speak Marathi have no place in Mumbai? No…The reason Marathi is declining is not because of people from UP/Bihar – it is because for along time it was considered “fashionable” to be able to speak in Hindi/Urdu or a mix of both (the peculiar “Bambaiya Hindi”)…It is because people found it easier to get work done if they spoke in Hind (or some semblance of it)…it is because people did not feel the need to learn Marathi (and by the way pl. remember that the script was almost identical to Hindi).
If the “poor” Marathi manoos is so concerned about Marathi, he or she should first take steps to teach their kids this language, talk to them in Marathi, talk to your friends, shopkeepers, taxi-wallahs etc in Marathi….and then take on those who refuse to speak in the language…but to speak to your kids in English and then insist on your poor “bai” to speak in Marathi is hypocrisy.
As for the suggestion of re-organising our states, sound proposal but I am afraid completely unrealistic in the present scenario.
***
@ Mahesh: I admire your love for Maharashtra and Marathi but please try and understand that people cannot “love” something under duress…It would be hard for non-Marathi speaking people to love Marathi under force…Yes, I agree that we should encourage them to learn Marathi…but I would be vary wary of any law that forces them to speak only in the local language..In the end, a language’s strength is the pride its speakers feel in it…It is something innate and cannot be forced, I feel.
***
To ALL: There is a deeper question of identity here – which I am going to explore in a post hopefully next week. The question is what is our defining identity – Is it the language we speak? the place where we live? the place where we were born? the place where we come from? or is it something that transcends all this? Should we not think how we can define ourselves as “Indians” first and Marathi and/or Bengali second?
*** COMMENT COMBINED ***
BJP joins the Marathi bandwagon:
http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1192490
Welcome aboard!
hahahahahahhahahaha ……………
***
Shantanu,
A question for you – Why is the 3-language formula only present (imposed?) in the southern states?
Why do the northern states not learn a third language, like say Tamil or Marathi?
देश गौरवा साथी जीà¤à¤²à¤¾ महाराषà¥à¤Ÿà¥à¤° माà¤à¤¾ !!
Today once again महाराषà¥à¤Ÿà¥à¤° has proven its intense feeling of राषà¥à¤Ÿà¥à¤°à¥€à¤¯à¤¤à¥à¤µ in any Marathi.
Dr. Chandrakant Patil of KEM Hospital Parel, Mumbai.
Laid down his life while serving the people of Bihar’s Kosi river flood affected area. Dr.Patil is a son of mill worker from Dhule,Maharashtra. Just shear love for helping the needy and duty towards the nation made him travel to Bihar without worrying for his life.
The whole Maharashtra is mourning his death.And condoling his family… and trying to lesson their burdun by financialy contributing.
जसे राषà¥à¤Ÿà¥à¤°à¤¾ शिवाय महाराषà¥à¤Ÿà¥à¤° नहीं तसेच
महाराषà¥à¤Ÿà¥à¤° शिवाय मराठी नहीं आणि मराठी शिवाय महाराषà¥à¤Ÿà¥à¤° नाहीच नहीं
when will the people of rest of india understand this!
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Mumbai/KEM_doctor_in_Bihar_killed_by_lightning_bolt/articleshow/3515971.cms
जय हिंद! जय महाराषà¥à¤Ÿà¥à¤°!!
Great lost to mankind and country. I am sad, by reading the news in above link. Dr. Chandrakant Patil and other who lost their lives for serving the country are martyrs. May his soul rest in peace. I pray for him and his family.
@M. Patil
India has a reputation of peaceful living with different languages not of today but for 1000’s of years. Its nothing you and me who have contributed in it. Nobody ever doubted and questioned integrity and the unity of Maharastra or of any state or of the Nation.
India has survived such divisive attacks on the basis of language and caste number of times. It is just a seeds of insecurity born out of our own thoughts, that give rise to fear -my community or my state is at threat.
I have seen number of intercaste marriages that shows no sign of pride of bengali, punjabi, hindi, malayali, gujarati, oriya, tamil, telgu or marathi. Its just they want love. For example, Namrata Shirodkar, married to Tamil hero( I dont remembers his name). It only strengthens the unity and integrity of the nations. Everythings here other than love is to be ceased.
I agree there are antisocial elements from outside states coming to Mumbai, and many states but that doesnot shows whole bunch of community from that state is bad. We too have anitisocial people in our community.
I know you wont agree with me and I am also not in mood to comment more on this topic but these are my last words on this opic.
Any of the active people from Maharashtra if reading this blog…
The DOW Chemical plant which is coming up in Chakan, Pune… needs to be stopped … as we dont want to repeat the same bhopal gas tragedy once again in India…
And in the first case itself the company like Dow chemical should be blacklisted in India. It doesnt matters what kind of research and development or what not they are trying to do.
Please join the ground level campaign with us against dow chemicals in Chakan,Pune.
जय हिंद! जय महाराषà¥à¤Ÿà¥à¤°!!
RE: Dow Chemicals Plant –
A suitable case study for you, Mahesh, is the anti-SEZ agitation in Raigad where villagers have essentially collected together and have “voted” against the Reliance SEZ. Mukesh Ambani had previously indicated that he would respect the decision of the locals.
So, the key way to block the Dow Chemicals plant is to ensure that they can not acquire the land. If the land belongs to the govt, then I am afraid you will have to prove your environmental case directly. Get information about the type of chemicals they will manufacture and whether they are proscribed for manufacturing in residential areas by the EU or the US. Then, we can launch an environmental campaign against them.
In any case, Dow Chemicals is not the same as Union Carbide, even if they acquired the latter’s assets
There is a massive anti dow campaign going on for past couple of months.. now even the warkaris have joined with, chief warkari bandya tatya being arrested with his other collegues.
The protest is happening at the Shinde village where the dow plant is about to be constructed.
Media has still not given due highlight to this agitation.. so very few people even in pune city know about it.
Dow Chemicals people are not commenting anything , even when a local marathi channel IBN LOKMAT contacted they emailed a response saying they cannot send their representatives on TV shows, and they said the plant is only for R&D but they refuse what kind of research and what kind of chemicals they are willing to use in the plant..
Plenty of faxes and letters have been sent to CM.VIlasrao Deshmukh still no answer from him, finally a delegation has gone to Shri Sharad PAwar , he said he will look into matter and have asked to maintain calm.
We have demanded DOW CHEMICALS AND GOVT OF MAHARASHTRA to come clean and explain in detailed transperency what they are willing to do at their plant…
NOW ALL WE WANT IS TO GET THE EDUCATED CROWD IN MAHARASHTRA TO COME ON THE ROADS AND SPEAK OUT FOR TRANSPERENCY.
Mahesh, Patriot: Thanks for bringing this to my attention.
Here is what I propose…
Let us find out the contact telephone number/email of the concerned person in National Chemical Laboratory who has cleared this project (from the pollution control point of view). [ link ]
I am willing to call/email that person and put the transcript of the call on this blog…
This way we will get to hear the “other” side of the story…
What do you think?
@ Shantanu NCL Has no jurisdiction on this … the land is alloted by MIDC = 100acres and Environmental clearance is given by MPCB: or Maharashtra Pollution Control Board.
already many RTI Filed and have taken out information from MPCB: or Maharashtra Pollution Control Board…
INFO FROM MPCB
2. MPCB gives consent for use of at least 20 hazardous chemicals
Documents procured under RTI reveal that MPCB has given a ‘go ahead’ to DOW to use for its manufacturing plant at Chakan, at least 20 hazardous chemicals as per Schedule-I of ‘Manufacture, Storage and Import of Hazardous Chemicals Rules-1989’ under Environment Protection Act-1986.
October 19, 2007: In his letter dated October 19, 2007, Sanjay Khandare, member secretary of the MPCB has granted Dow Chemicals International Pvt Ltd (Plot no A-1, MIDC Chakan, Phase-II, Taluka Khed, District: Pune) the consent for the manufacture of the following chemical products per month:
Polymers- 2,000 kgs
Catalyst organic/inorganic – 1,000 kg
Surfactants – 200 kgs
Aliphatic organic compounds – 500 kgs
Aromatic organic compounds – 500 kgs
Inorganic salts – 500 kgs.
The monthly quantity may not reflect the commercial nature of activity, but it involves manufacturing chemical products, albeit for Research and Development.
For the manufacture of the above products, the list of chemicals which are likely to be used by DOW and have been given a nod by the MPCB are:
Gases- Air, nitrogen, hydrogen, helium, argon, methane, carbon monoxide, sulfur dioxide, ammonia, acetylene, hydrocarbon gases, hydrogen chloride and others (150 regular cylinders (total)
Solvents- Methanol, acetone, isopropyl alcohol, ether, petroleum ether, toluene, acetonitrile, THF, DMF etc (1000 litres per month)
Halogenated solvents- Ethynyl dichloride, chlorobenzene, chloroform (500 litres per month)
Inorganic acids- Nitric acid, sulfuric acid, hydrochloric acid, phosphoric acid and perchloric acid (500 litres per month)
Alkali- Sodium hydroxide, potassium hydroxide, calcium hydroxide, calcium carbonate, sodium carbonate, ammonia, calcium chloride (500 kgs per month)
Organic Reagents- Triethylamine, aliphatic/aromatic amines, phenols alphatic/aromatic acids, olefins, surfactants (500 litres per month)
Inorganic Reagents- Metals, metal oxides, metal nitrites/halides/carbonates, developed catalysts and oxidizing/reducing agents (250 kgs per month)
Commercial polymers – Polyethelene, polypropelene, polyurethanes etc (2000 kgs per month)
Cryogenics- liquid nitrogen and dry ice (2000 kgs per month)
General laboratory chemicals- Lewis acids, organic acids, inorganic acids, phoshazine bases, organic bases, inorganic bases, organic salts, inorganic salts (500 kgs per month)
Organic sulphur compounds- Alkyl sulphates, Alkyl sulphides (100 kgs per month) (also see box on page 11)
In case of accidents
In case of accidents, the MPCB in its consent letter states – “Whenever due to any accident or any other unforeseen act or even, such emissions occur or apprehended to occur in excess of standards laid down, such information shall be forthwith reported to Board, concerned police station, officer of director of health services, Department of Explosives, Inspectorates of factory and Local Body. In case of failure of pollution control equipments, the production process connected to shall be stopped.”
http://www.ibnlive.com/news/double-standards-mns-leaders-use-english-boards/74439-3.html
WHY JOBS TO BHUMI PUTRA’s FIRST or reservation to the people of the state first
looking at current scenario in Maharashtra i would support my beleif and the above should be implemented
because of follwoing two main reasons
1)The State Govt of Maharashtra (mainly 55years congress) has failed to keep a check on ‘minimum wages law!’ and other labour laws .
If the law is strictly implemented , there is no derth of talent and readiness of hard working Maharashtrain,
to work at state priscribed minimum wages rates. The pvt small business group are truely exploiting Poor people
from UP and Bihar at sweat shop labour rates!( health and PF are long dream).
No one should dare call this as rate competition by north indians or business maths because its pure violation of the same north indians in form of labour laws and exploitation of Human rights .
IF govt Make sure the minimum wages rates are followed properly i bet, the jobs will be occupied by default on their own ability n skills and merit by Maharashtrains .. that time maybe region based law will automaticaly turn null n void.
Best example is State Govt machineries,where almost all are marathis because of non voilation of labour laws.with
good pay packages and benifits like health insurance (in form of Kamgaar hospital) and benifit of Pension and Provident fund.
EVen the jamadars or the sweeper community which keeps the city clean who receive some Rs3000/month are
maximum marathis.
2)Central Govt Jobs in Maharashtra, you will find all north Indians. Right from top jobs in LICs,PSU navratnas all babus
are non maharashtrain. And the worst is in Railways, Till now i havent yet been able to find a single Ticket collector, in Maharashtra a Marathi…. further motor man, signal guys etc the list goes on.
Now let me inform the ground reality .. its not that marathi people dont apply to these jobs or they fail in exams but since independence Railway Ministers have always been from mostly from the Northern states, so just either the rig the pacement list or their JAcks and undue recomendations they get preference.
Let me give a very recent examples RJD.. Laloos party has gained a great momentum in terms of their organization
building in Maharashtra why?.. because they are offering free first class tickets and other incentives in railways to their party office bearers.. and offering their office bearers(who are by origin from Bihar) some quotas for their relatives in railway jobs and posting in Maharashtra… Further i you are a top level state member of their party you will get exclusive business contracts for maintainence to cleanliness to eateries again were all are north Indians of Mainly from Bihar
Not because of their merit but because of their states of origin! i.e. bihari … so in return they can fund North neta’s partys
(Apaharan is a wonderful movie which somewhats highlights how railway contracts work and job allotment even at IAS level works!)
Its not just Laloo but the minister before him like Nitish Kumar who served two terms, Ramvilas Paswan. Expect a brief term of 1year by Mamta Banergee. The by Northern states leaders have hold the railway ministers post in past 15 years.
Again the top central jobs although small in percentage but none the less with huge burecratic power are again in favour
of Northern states, due to their political weightage and further compounded by boot licking Maharashtra politicians(MP’s)
of their party high command in delhi. “I wont beleive a single word if any one says all these top jobs in Commissioner level IPS IAS,IFS,Ambaseddor and top jobs of petro gaints and other PSU’s are given on merit..” . Yes there are few meritorious south indians
IAS like T CHandrashekar who have performed brilliantly in the STate ..who are a rare breed but they dont last long
because they dont pay bribes to the centre
************************************
I would make a final futurstic point which is based on Indian family system. i.e. the strenght of our nation lies
in our indian family system. Everyone know how strenious it is for a ‘lower middle class and middle class’ working men
and his family if the bread winner is far away from his house. Everyone natural choice is to find a workplace in their home town only.
If the Maharashtra’s lower middle class job market continues to be manupulated by incumbant north indian politicians and flauting rules of minimum wages by small private businesses.. and if (a BIG IF ) marathis as usual take it lying and move out of the state for jobs … It would be a great disaster for our family systems and including us will be held responsible
in future for not seeing this obvious foresight and contributing and compunding the existing mess to it by taking a stand “against reservation based on region “.
Today North Indian lower middle and BPL are moving into other states since non availibity of jobs to
other states, then these states lower middle and BPL will move to other states like Gujarat or South.
since non avaibility of jobs just because of their jobs opportunities being wrongly taken by north indian politicians
and given wrongly to the people of thier states and unethical busniess practices by small businesses.
Or the worst un thinkable may happen in lower middle class n bpl(below poverty line) Maharashtrain ladies being sold and forced or by themselves into prostitution by their own parents like prevalent mainly in MP,North and North East States if their local area good decent earning jobs are taken.
The best examples for the crack in above family system,(although not talked explicitly in open public nor any divorse filed even after infedility by their spouse) again can be seen in men from UP and Bihar leaving in other states. The main danger is infedility by working men staying away in cities like mumbai and Delhi and other second tier cities followed by HIV and AIDS… Please go and inquire in red light areas! you will get the statistics.. on their clientele!.
And prostitution rackets in India and girls being sent to dubai are very much available on net if you wish to cross check mywords. WHY THEY ENTER Prostitution because no jobs in their own states!.
Friends, Our fight is against caste based politics! and caste based reservations. We cannot object each and every reservation issue and definately not region/state wise reservation . Just because some states of India are suffering because of those areas politicians we cannot make rest of the better doing states people suffer. We need to take stands on creating jobs where jobs arent available and not help in spreading the cancerous trend of leaving home place for work 100-4000kms away from home…. and contribute to increase in infedility from men side, increase in prostituion because of no jobs at home.. and contribute to AIDS and other finally pay a heavy price to Indian family and cultural system.
P.S.
1) Again and again I am specificaly talking of BPL and Lower middle class which consititutes 70% of India who cannot afford to take their families along in metros and other states because of the kind of wages paid to them.
2)FAQ: What about person travelling from Vidarbha, or Northern Maharashtra or Marathwada or Konkan to Mumbai or Pune or other big cities in Maharashtra, wont that hamper the local people jobs… and i have talked about?
My Ans) Yes it will, when i say Bhoomi Putra law or region based reservation whenever it will be passed the person to be given preference who stays 0 to 50 kms or less radius first in the locality of job provider. and who has a domicle certificate of that State which (but obvious) contains address of the area he/she being residing i.e. either born in a State or staying in the state for min 15years.
I dont know about rest of the states, but in Maharashtra the school has to take students who reside in a specific radius first and degree college admissions are carried on the same basis, where Zilla parishad has a quota in each and college… and which is perfectly working for students and parents.
The same should be applied for jobs too .And the law of Bhumi putra if we want to save whatever is left of Bharat to salvage from should be applied in all the states of India. Then only the politicians will wake up and get corporates and Nanos plants in each and every village of INdia.
जय हिंद! जय महाराषà¥à¤Ÿà¥à¤° !!
Mahesh: That was a long comment…Give me a few days for a post that is in the making which has direct bearing on this issue…
Until then, I will hold my thoughts.
Thanks.
Mahesh: I havemoved both your comments here
मराठी चà¥à¤¯à¤¾ मà¥à¤¦à¥à¤¯à¤¾à¤µà¤° , मराठी माणसाची अटक होत असेल तर , महाराषà¥à¤Ÿà¥à¤°à¤¾ चà¥à¤¯à¤¾ सरà¥à¤µ पकà¥à¤·à¤¾à¤‚चà¥à¤¯à¤¾ नेतà¥à¤¯à¤¾à¤¨à¤¾ à¤à¤•à¤¤à¥à¤° येउन याचा विरोध केलाच पाहिजे !
जय हिंद ! जय महाराषà¥à¤Ÿà¥à¤° !!
If any person raising the issues related to Marathi Manoos is being arrested on that basis… all the political and social Leaders of Maharashtra should stand united and oppose these kind of Arrest
Jai hind Jai Maharashtra
I think he should have been arrested long before! Also IMO the EC should ban Raj and MNS from contesting the elections and anyone who uses “divide and rule” policy to contest in the elections.
Just think what has become of our nation? Every Indian should have right to go to any Indian state!
Mahesh: I am sure you realise that Raj Thackeray is not being arrested on the basis of raising issues related to Marathi Manoos..
He is being arrested for causing violence and intimidation…
As I understand, the arrest is a direct consequence of the attack on examination centres in Mumbai on Sunday…
Pl. correct me if I am wrong.
Mr Patil
Is this your party BPD’s agenda too! Does your Delhi branch knows of your this agenda against N. Indian? Are you fooling public by being a leader of “Bharaatiya Purnnirman Dal”? Where is bharat in your agenada? And where is “purnnirman”? I only see dividing?
I greatly appreciates your work for Maharastrian and specificaly “vidarbha” and less development area in field of jobs and education. But not at the expense of hate. Why dont you develope schemes were local youth get involved the same they did in gujarat, all that ends with ***gram( Jyotirgram). Actually people like you are blocking the progress by taking all favours in the name of maharastrian.
Do you think there are no Maharastrian out side Maharastra? What would you do if all states takes up the agenda what you and MNS is taking? Dont you think about them, that means we all have to stop migrating and come back to Maharastra?
There are other ways to engage locals in program where only locals can join it. You cant dictate other for jobs when the youth dont have qulification to get jobs. First educate the local youth give them skills and than see who can block their progress. That time we will see what non-maharastrian is doing to maharastrians.
Instead of progress you are engaged in hate politics and dividing the country. One day we all have to pay for this kind of hate politics and being anyone from Maharastra and Maharastrian doesnot mean one should support such hatemongering politics.
Jai Hind!
Victim dies who was attacked during railway examination.
http://www.ibnlive.com/news/mns-rampage-victim-dies-bihar-cm-is-livid/76372-3.html?from=rssfeed
Mr Patil be vary of God. In the end he is most powerful not your MNS chief or you. As aleader you must outcry such attacks where someone sons and daughter are beig attacked. What if tomorrow maharastrian who are appearing in exams outside Maharastra is being attacked. Will you keep quiet?
*** COMMENT COMBINED ***
@ Shantanu
मराठी माणूस जर टिकला नहीं तर महाराषà¥à¤Ÿà¥à¤° कसा टिकेल ? आणि महाराषà¥à¤Ÿà¥à¤° जर टिकला नहीं तर राषà¥à¤Ÿà¥à¤° कसा टिकेल ? मà¥à¤¹à¤£à¥à¤¨ मराठी माणसाचà¥à¤¯à¤¾ मà¥à¤¦à¥à¤¦à¤¾à¤¯à¤¾ वर लढनारा तोह राज ठाकरे असो किवà¥à¤¹à¤¾ अजà¥à¤¨ कोणी तोह शेवटी राषà¥à¤Ÿà¥à¤°à¤¾à¤šà¥€à¤š सेवा करीत आहे. माà¤à¥‡ अशà¥à¤¯à¤¾ सरà¥à¤µ लोकाना माà¤à¥‡ जाहिर समरà¥à¤¥à¤¨ राहिल या मà¥à¤¦à¥à¤¦à¤¯à¤¾à¤µà¤°.
translation : If marathi manoos doesnt survives in Maharashtra , Maharashtra also wont survive, and if Maharashtra doesnt survives how will Rashtra survive, so the bottom line is any person who is working for the cause of Marathi manus is working for the cause of Maharashtra.. it can be Raj Thackeray or any other marathi leader.. i will always openly support the person who is working for the cause of Maharashtra and in turn helping the country.
And whatever IPC sections applied on Raj Thackeray (which still not proven)i wouldnt like to get into it much..
“Only thing i can say is Britishers understood and appriciated the method of non-violence”
My only appeal is to all the politicians of Maharashtra if we all come and back Raj or any other leader of Maharashtra who is willing to work for marathi cause ,we political leaders should whole heartedly back them.. so we can make a strong footing of Maharashtra in centre and implementations of laws in favour of marathi manoos will be easier and hence a peaceful Maharashtra and a Better Bharat!(who says bharat isnt in our agenda).
********
Who me vary of god..yes i am thats why i work for people of Maharashtra…maybe hypocrate people who talk in favor of killings of Indian christains and Indian Muslims should be vary of god and stop dividing India.
जय हिंद! जय महाराषà¥à¤Ÿà¥à¤°!!
***
dear indian, read my post #83 you will have your answers..
i can argue and prove you wrong that to within the limits of the law of the land that marathi people are suffuring in their own hometown just because of dirty centre politics and north indian politicians which are the root cause of this heavy north influx.
जय हिंद! जय महाराषà¥à¤Ÿà¥à¤°!!
Why Bihar netas always want the Union Railway Ministry (URM)? Is that URM belong to Bihar or is it Union Bihar Railway Ministry? In Indira’s time, URM was reserved for Gonikhan Chaudhary of Bengal.
What happened in Maha on Rly exams, same happned in Asom one or two years back. I fully support the cause of Asom and Maha on this issue. Locals must be given priority for Railways lower level jobs and not packed with candidates from Bihar or north India. I travelled many times by the northen and north-eastern railways, I rarely come across a non-Hindi speaker ticket checker (most are from Bihar-UP, some Bengali).
Instead of adressing the real issue, they play politics and divert the issue. Maha people have every right to fight for their justice, as people of Tamil Nadu or Asom or other states. If it is not Raj, someone else will do. It seems more Congress political game than anything else, divide the Sena votes into two.
Railway Ministers of India and Years Railway Minister in past 12 years..
1996-1998 Ram Vilas Paswan
1998-1999 Nitish Kumar
2001-2004 Nitish Kumar
2004- Laloo Prasad Yadav
you are right Bharat.. it seems like its Bihar Railway Ministry
After independence a MP from Maharashtra has just held the railway ministry period for a brief of 2years by Madhu Dandavate in late 70’s and by Suresh Kalmadi for a period of six months in mid 90’s
No wonder in the last exams only 52 of 50000vacancies in railways were filled by Maharashtrians
Bharat Punarnirman Dal- welcome the new ORDINANCE which has been proposed by all the partys in Maharashtra stating ” Any Political Party who destroys public or private property during protest march or andolans then that political party has to pay out of it Pockets”
जय हिंद! जय महाराषà¥à¤Ÿà¥à¤°!!
I dont buy the arguments for Maharastrians who have turned politicians. These politicians make us believe by their speech and writing that outsiders are our enemy becuase we are not in this jobs and that jobs. Maharastrian are no less than anyone, they are everywhere were they wanted to be. Railway ministry and railways are not the jobs Maharastrian has ever considered or targated. Now they want to come in railways so they started all that “Chalo Hato” make room for maharastrian.
First How many Maharatrian wanted to be ticket checkers in yester years?. Simply None! They were much interested in 9 to 5 jobs, govt jobs and army jobs and back then most bank jobs also went to maharastrians. I had one relative selected in bank without any qualification for it. Not only in Maharastra also in Gujarat where I had my early days. Just call Balasaheb and tell them you are not given opportunity and thats it, you are working in bank from next day. Rest our colleague ( maharastrian) and manager (maharastrian) will support us for learning and experience. Is these favours and opportuniy we are looking for these days too! Didnot we realise we need to start using our brain for rise in other available fields.
Nobody obstructed our rights to enter in any field. Nobody said Maharatrian are not allowed in this field. Why such hue and cry?
Its for all dirty and vote bank politics. Its matter of facts, that its our inclination and interest where we get jobs.
Most of the marwaris and gujaratis are business men? Due to their interest and inclination. All these days I only knew Maharastrian are very good at service sector. I never knew anyone who wanted to be in ticket checking? Now one day public is waking up and says I am not given my share? rediculous!
Its all immature talk and finding faults in others and blaming others for failures. Dont put wrong reports on Maharastrian because of your dirty politics.
I am not a great fan of N. Indians either. I consider them (those who are uneducated and they are there in every corner of Bihar and uttar pradesh) as non-God fearing public. And because of this reason one can see highest crime in UP and Bihar. Poverty, uneducation and politicians are responsible for all thse chaos. If we are pointing politicians for not bringing up their states up to the expectation its a good findings and point.
But Maharstra was not either made with maharastrian. Maharastra is Maharastra because of millions who came and put their money and efforts. Nobody can deny that. If someone is denying this facts than he or she is going through identity crises, insecurity and jealousy Or human weaknesses. I dont want everyone to agree with me. Everyone is entitiled to stick to their views. But 70% of educated public doesnot supports Shiv Sena or MNC violence and such attacks made in the name of Maharastrian. Its all those who are from lower strata supporting them. Can you imagine educated maharastrian ripping Drona’s poster! No way they will never engage in such indecent work.
I would like to put quote of N. P. Singh who said on the topic of Mittal’s interview on Jago party on this blog. Corruption, criminilisation and divisiveness is an absolute necessity in present system and therefore sooner or later all politicians foster this attitude.
If someone does not agree doesnot agree! Nobody is forcing some one to agee. Everyone has their right to put what they think about issue.
Jai Hind!
Indian, Mahesh, Bharat, Deepak, All:
Please continue comments on this issue on my latest post: No longer funny
Thanks.
The politicians of north are just busy sensationalising the issue of Rahul Raj, and how come non of these are commiting on Guhwati blast where 63 died!…
I totally sympathise with rahul’s family but their family talking the language of north indians politicians which i would ask them not to do so. Please do not enter or talk about the issues which you have no idea of.
Mumbai Police has done the right job by shooting done an ARMED men,who was firing shots at them as well as endangering the crowd no one knew that the boy (rahul) was a bihari.
Conducting Judicial or CBI enquires again and again after each and every encounter will let the morale down of the mumbai police.
I stand by R.R.Patils Home Ministers oF Maharashtras statement of “गोली का जवाब गोली से ही देंगे”
Any armed men carrying a weapon in Mumbai and open firing in the public has to be dealt with the same consiquence as with RahulRaj encounter
जय हिंद! जय महाराषà¥à¤Ÿà¥à¤°!!
And now a jobsite for real local jobs in bihar – Bihar Jobs and in U.P. – U.P. Jobs
http://publication.samachar.com/pub_article.php?id=3146699
Its no one’s mumbai atleast not of Raj Thackerey. Who speaks empty talk and fake marathi pride. I think Mumbai belongs to these commandos and public who are cheering them. Does Raj has spine to challenge the terrorists?. where is he hiding? Did anyone seen him near Taj or Trident calling Mumbai mere baap ki hai?. He shows his weekness on poor, innocents and weekest.
@ Indian
1)This is a war, a war waged by Pakistan on India. You have mixed up an internal issue with an international attack. PLEASE GET UR SENSES
2)Raj Thackeray or for that matter even PM ManmohanSingh, L.K Advani and many other politicians have done a sensible job by not visiting the Ground zero.Their visits would add more security pressure on the already engaged security forces.
Further INDIAN , this is not the time to politicize this event, i wonder how this kind of thoughts runs through your head when we are at war with Pakistanis.
If the blame game has to be played then its not Raj Thackeray who has taken contract to tackle terrorist , its the soverign responsibility of the Congress govt who has failed again and again to bring in police reforms, police expenditure and miniscule budgetary allocations to Mumbai.
This again shows due to the weightage of the politicians of north in Parlaiment the centre has always ignored the problems of Mumbai and Maharashtra… which ironicaly supports the People of Maharashtras campaign against north politicians
जय हिंद जय महाराषà¥à¤Ÿà¥à¤°
Vow what a reply!
Sachin Tendulkar:
Bravo Sachin. We need more like him.
“Mahrashtra Chief Minister Ashok Chavan to grant more 1000 hector land to Anil Ambani’s M/s.Reliance Cementation Pvt.Ltd around villages Chanakha, Nimdeli, Gubri and Koregaon the same area in yavatmal district tribal belt where agrarian crisis is at it’s peak and area known as epicenter of farmers suicides of vidarbha .Vidarbha Janandolan Samiti(VJAS) has alleged that Chief Minister Ashok Chavan has favored M/s.Reliance Cementation Pvt.Ltd in exchange multi-thousand crore deal for himself and his congress party just before the assembly election and demanded detail probe in to land deal.”
http://vidarbhatimes.blogspot.com/2009/11/vjas-demands-probe-1008-hector-land.html