Comments on: Gandhigiri, Taliban and the need for reform in Islam http://satyameva-jayate.org/2007/10/14/gandhigiri-taliban-and-need-for-reform-in-islam/ Dedicated to "Bharat" and "Dharma" Wed, 23 May 2012 16:24:55 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: B Shantanu http://satyameva-jayate.org/2007/10/14/gandhigiri-taliban-and-need-for-reform-in-islam/comment-page-1/#comment-411369 B Shantanu Fri, 04 May 2012 06:24:50 +0000 http://satyameva-jayate.org/2007/10/14/gandhigiri-taliban-and-need-for-reform-in-islam/#comment-411369 Placing this here for record..From <a href="http://www.deccanchronicle.com/channels/nation/north/declare-ahmadis-non-muslims-grand-mufti-096" rel="nofollow">a recent piece in Deccan Chronicle</a>: <i>Kashmir’s Grand Mufti on Wednesday stirred up a real hornet’s nest by asking for declaring Ahmadis or Ahmadiyyas as non-Muslims through a legislation in the state Assembly. The cleric, Mufti Muhammad Bashiruddin, who is recognised by both the state government and the Centre as official 'Mufti Azam' or Grand Mufti of Jammu and Kashmir, while speaking at a meeting of religious leaders here organised by the Jammu and Kashmir Muslim Personal Board headed by him, said that all legislators should jointly table a bill in the state Assembly during its coming session and ensure it was passed with voice votes as well to declare Ahmadis as non-Muslims. ...Ahmadiyya is a reformist movement within Islam founded in British India towards the end of the 19th century, originating with the life and teachings of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed (1835–1908), who claimed that he was the Mujaddid (divine reformer) and the promised Messiah and Mahdi awaited by Muslims. The adherents of the Ahmadiyya movement are referred to as Ahmadis or Ahmadi Muslims. India has a significant Ahmadiyya population, most of them living in Kerala, Rajasthan, Orissa, Haryana, Bihar, Delhi, UP and in Qadian in Punjab, the birthplace of Mirza Ahmed.</i> Placing this here for record..From a recent piece in Deccan Chronicle:
Kashmir’s Grand Mufti on Wednesday stirred up a real hornet’s nest by asking for declaring Ahmadis or Ahmadiyyas as non-Muslims through a legislation in the state Assembly.
The cleric, Mufti Muhammad Bashiruddin, who is recognised by both the state government and the Centre as official ‘Mufti Azam’ or Grand Mufti of Jammu and Kashmir, while speaking at a meeting of religious leaders here organised by the Jammu and Kashmir Muslim Personal Board headed by him, said that all legislators should jointly table a bill in the state Assembly during its coming session and ensure it was passed with voice votes as well to declare Ahmadis as non-Muslims.
…Ahmadiyya is a reformist movement within Islam founded in British India towards the end of the 19th century, originating with the life and teachings of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed (1835–1908), who claimed that he was the Mujaddid (divine reformer) and the promised Messiah and Mahdi awaited by Muslims.
The adherents of the Ahmadiyya movement are referred to as Ahmadis or Ahmadi Muslims. India has a significant Ahmadiyya population, most of them living in Kerala, Rajasthan, Orissa, Haryana, Bihar, Delhi, UP and in Qadian in Punjab, the birthplace of Mirza Ahmed.

]]> By: B Shantanu http://satyameva-jayate.org/2007/10/14/gandhigiri-taliban-and-need-for-reform-in-islam/comment-page-1/#comment-1999 B Shantanu Wed, 02 Apr 2008 19:38:04 +0000 http://satyameva-jayate.org/2007/10/14/gandhigiri-taliban-and-need-for-reform-in-islam/#comment-1999 @ prince: You say (emphasis mine):

my answer is, for bravery there should be reformation and for reformation there should be drawbacks….religion of muslims doesnt have a single drawback…so no question of reformation

Bravo!

My friend, please grow up a bit…please read a little more widely…please do not pretend that burying your head in the sand makes the storm go away…pl. look outside the narrow confines of your dogma…

Others far better educated than me (and far more well read than me) have commented on the need for reform within Islam..

What would you say when people explode bombs in the name of “Allah”?

What do you say to the stone-age laws that consider the evidence of women as being worth less than that of a man in a case of sexual assault?

Read up what Tanveer Ahmed, Fareed Zakaria, Salim Mansur and others have written…and if you still insist that Islam is perfect, I have neither the time nor patience to argue with you…

Be happy…but be aware that you are on *troll* territory…my patience is beginning to wear thin…

I will not allow you to comment any more on this post except in response to *my questions* above.

P.S. Also, I have so far resisted the urge to put a blanket ban on your comments but some of them are so extraordinary and outrageous that I have not even bothered to edit them (you know the ones that I have deleted). Unless you are prepared to discuss things a little more sensibly, I am afraid that I will have no choice but to summarily delete ALL your comments.

So this is really your last chance of redeeming yourself…Show us that you are capable of a logical, rational discussion…otherwise stop wasting everyone’s time here.

]]> By: prince of angels http://satyameva-jayate.org/2007/10/14/gandhigiri-taliban-and-need-for-reform-in-islam/comment-page-1/#comment-1998 prince of angels Wed, 02 Apr 2008 19:23:15 +0000 http://satyameva-jayate.org/2007/10/14/gandhigiri-taliban-and-need-for-reform-in-islam/#comment-1998 ...i am always to the point unless and until sombody invokes me to stray out of topic.... @patriot:- i fully agree to your point that india is emerging as a confident state in the world....i am not talking of the confidence of india against the worldly achievements....but specially about indias past....that too specially in the medieval age...after the invasion of muslims till the freedom of this country...this stage of indian history is something not considered cherishable by majority community.....but naturally they suffer from indferiority complex....about the defeat of indian kings to muslim emperors......about their subjugation to the foreign invasion etc etc......this is what i am refering to when i say 'inferiority complex'....this is the most important point which is becoming an obstacle in indias advancement.....and alos dividing the country on communal lines....the evidence of inferiority complex is very clear among indians trying to stay in 'fools paradise' all the time trying to shift the blames of the origins of all the anti social elements present in indian society e.g. caste system , sati , widows pathetic conditions , devdasis , untouchability etc etc (never ending list) very shamelessly on the invaders or the foreign religions like islam and christianity.....they even go to the extent of alleging islam and christianity for the origin of caste system.....now this is too much.....their theory could be refuted by the most important fact 'dalits conversion" ...if caste system was something alien to indian society why did dalits converted to islam , christianity , buddhism in lots..??? ..as far as your question of bomb blasts , train blasts etc are concerned ....these took place after godhra riots....bombay bomb blasts took place after babri masjid episode...point to be noted.... @shantanu:- i couldnt find what was your comment....but i guess it was something like if 'bravery lies in accepting the truth and bring reformation in religions' ...i deliberately didnt answered coz you ppl may get offended...you told that hindus are brave as they accept the drawbacks in their religion and are ready to bring reformation....and you questioned are muslims too brave???...my answer is, for bravery there should be reformation and for reformation there should be drawbacks....religion of muslims doesnt have a single drawback...so no question of reformation....i guess this what your argument was???....and i hope you got the reply....if you wanna counter argue on this point......most welcome.. …i am always to the point unless and until sombody invokes me to stray out of topic….

@patriot:- i fully agree to your point that india is emerging as a confident state in the world….i am not talking of the confidence of india against the worldly achievements….but specially about indias past….that too specially in the medieval age…after the invasion of muslims till the freedom of this country…this stage of indian history is something not considered cherishable by majority community…..but naturally they suffer from indferiority complex….about the defeat of indian kings to muslim emperors……about their subjugation to the foreign invasion etc etc……this is what i am refering to when i say ‘inferiority complex’….this is the most important point which is becoming an obstacle in indias advancement…..and alos dividing the country on communal lines….the evidence of inferiority complex is very clear among indians trying to stay in ‘fools paradise’ all the time trying to shift the blames of the origins of all the anti social elements present in indian society e.g. caste system , sati , widows pathetic conditions , devdasis , untouchability etc etc (never ending list) very shamelessly on the invaders or the foreign religions like islam and christianity…..they even go to the extent of alleging islam and christianity for the origin of caste system…..now this is too much…..their theory could be refuted by the most important fact ‘dalits conversion” …if caste system was something alien to indian society why did dalits converted to islam , christianity , buddhism in lots..???

..as far as your question of bomb blasts , train blasts etc are concerned ….these took place after godhra riots….bombay bomb blasts took place after babri masjid episode…point to be noted….

@shantanu:- i couldnt find what was your comment….but i guess it was something like if ‘bravery lies in accepting the truth and bring reformation in religions’ …i deliberately didnt answered coz you ppl may get offended…you told that hindus are brave as they accept the drawbacks in their religion and are ready to bring reformation….and you questioned are muslims too brave???…my answer is, for bravery there should be reformation and for reformation there should be drawbacks….religion of muslims doesnt have a single drawback…so no question of reformation….i guess this what your argument was???….and i hope you got the reply….if you wanna counter argue on this point……most welcome..

]]> By: Patriot http://satyameva-jayate.org/2007/10/14/gandhigiri-taliban-and-need-for-reform-in-islam/comment-page-1/#comment-1997 Patriot Wed, 02 Apr 2008 15:43:57 +0000 http://satyameva-jayate.org/2007/10/14/gandhigiri-taliban-and-need-for-reform-in-islam/#comment-1997 And, prince, if you bring in Palestine in a different post, then you should expect others to bring in the al-qaeda and the lashkar as a counter point. And, if muslims have been questioned in India, it has been because of atrocities committed here - remember the Mumbai train blasts? 190 innocent people butchered. Why? Why did they have to be killed by the "islamists"? Anyway, as Shantanu pointed out, please stay on topic. Else, you are just a troll. And, prince, if you bring in Palestine in a different post, then you should expect others to bring in the al-qaeda and the lashkar as a counter point.

And, if muslims have been questioned in India, it has been because of atrocities committed here – remember the Mumbai train blasts? 190 innocent people butchered. Why? Why did they have to be killed by the “islamists”?

Anyway, as Shantanu pointed out, please stay on topic. Else, you are just a troll.

]]> By: Patriot http://satyameva-jayate.org/2007/10/14/gandhigiri-taliban-and-need-for-reform-in-islam/comment-page-1/#comment-1996 Patriot Wed, 02 Apr 2008 15:36:46 +0000 http://satyameva-jayate.org/2007/10/14/gandhigiri-taliban-and-need-for-reform-in-islam/#comment-1996 @prince: Ummm, no, I do not think that the hindus (or Indians) suffer from an inferiority complex. In fact, as I look at modern, democratic, secular India, I see a land of confident people taking their rightful place at the world table. In the next 30 years, India will be the third largest economy in the world in nominal terms. I see Bangalore as the centre of the IT industry of the world, the Rupee as one of the strongest currencies, and our people dominating industries globally. India (and China) will become the centre of the world again as they were 1000 years back. To me, Mahendra Singh Dhoni (and Irfan Pathan and Rohit Sharma) are the shining symbols (from an allegorical perspective) of a resurgent India. They show that mofussil India is marching forward and taking its place alongside the traditional power centres of India. And, they are doing it without a chip on their shoulder. So, no, I do not see any signs of inferiority complexes anywhere. The key question to me is whether the muslim community of India want to step up to the plate, modernise and join this resurgent India or will they continue to listen only to their mullahs and the theocrats and shun progress? IF they choose the latter, only THEN will this be known as the resurgence of Hindu India. Think about it. @prince:

Ummm, no, I do not think that the hindus (or Indians) suffer from an inferiority complex.

In fact, as I look at modern, democratic, secular India, I see a land of confident people taking their rightful place at the world table. In the next 30 years, India will be the third largest economy in the world in nominal terms. I see Bangalore as the centre of the IT industry of the world, the Rupee as one of the strongest currencies, and our people dominating industries globally. India (and China) will become the centre of the world again as they were 1000 years back.

To me, Mahendra Singh Dhoni (and Irfan Pathan and Rohit Sharma) are the shining symbols (from an allegorical perspective) of a resurgent India. They show that mofussil India is marching forward and taking its place alongside the traditional power centres of India. And, they are doing it without a chip on their shoulder.

So, no, I do not see any signs of inferiority complexes anywhere.

The key question to me is whether the muslim community of India want to step up to the plate, modernise and join this resurgent India or will they continue to listen only to their mullahs and the theocrats and shun progress? IF they choose the latter, only THEN will this be known as the resurgence of Hindu India.

Think about it.

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