|| Satyameva Jayate ||

Dedicated to “Bharat” and “Dharma”

Join the discussion on Islam, Hindutva, Dr Zakir Naik, Godhra

Dear All,

I am “creating” this post to collate several comments that were exchanged between readers in response to the post referring to Dr Zakir Naik’s video. (Pl. also see: Excerpts from “Can Islam Reform Itself?”

The reason for moving the comments to this post are

  • the comments did not refer to the specific video but addressed more general and broader issues (as you will see below)
  • I think the discussion that is evolving has value in itself and touches upon several things in relation to Islam, Hindutva, Dr Zakir Naik, Godhra etc
  • The original video was not�about�Dr. Zakir Naik’s comments which have been referred to by Mohammed Ali (below).� It was to do with his remarks on�a different subject�- unfortunately it is no longer available on youtube

I will be responding to Mohammed’s comments in a day or two but please feel free to join the discussion. A few important points:�please stick to civil language;�please refrain from personal insults;�please avoid dismissive arguments; and of course, no abuse�or vulgarity allowed…

Thanks for joining the discussion…and hopefully, this will help us get closer to the truth. Satyameva Jayate!

.

********** BEGINNING OF COMMENTS **********

From�Mohammed Ali

Dr. Zakir Naik says:
Every Muslim should be a terrorist. A terrorist is a person who causes terror. The moment a robber sees a policeman he is terrified. A policeman is a terrorist for the robber. Similarly every Muslim should be a terrorist for the antisocial elements of society, such as thieves, dacoits and rapists. Whenever such an anti-social element sees a Muslim, he should be terrified. It is true that the word �terrorist� is generally used for a person who causes terror among the common people. But a true Muslim should only be a terrorist to selective people i.e. anti-social elements, and not to the common innocent people. In fact a Muslim should be a source of peace for innocent people.�

Faith Freedom.org says:
Dr. Naik claims that the anti-social elements that need to be terrorized by Muslims are the criminals, such as thieves, dacoits and rapists. But isn�t it the job of the police to go after the criminals? The police�s job is trained and is paid to enforce the law. Those whom he catches are not criminals until proven as such in the court of law. He must catch the suspect using minimum force and use force only if necessary. He must respect the human rights of the suspects. As long as the suspect is not convicted in a court of law, he remains innocent.

Who gave the authorization to Muslims to take the place of the police, the court, the executioner and terrorize people whom they accuse of crime? Don�t we have a penal system to deal with these matters? Should citizens take the law in their own hands? This is in itself against the law. What this doctor is ostensibly proposing here is anarchy. We have a whole structure set in place to deal with criminals. Under what law average citizens can assume the role of the entire legal system? This is insanity!

_____________________________________________

Here�s my point of view:
Every human being, Muslim or non-Muslim should be a �terrorist for the antisocial elements of society�.
(Anybody disagreeing with the above statement can stop reading right now, as your mind is not mature enough to understand the topic).

Now that we have agreed to the above statement, lets see what faithfreedom.org has to say.

According to faithfreedom.org, �But isn�t it the job of the police to go after the criminals?�

So according to faithfreedom.org, if a man is walking on the road, and he sees a woman being gang-raped by a feral pack of goons, he should just walk away, call the police and then wait till the police comes while this woman is being stripped of her dignity.

EVERY HUMAN BEING SHOULD STAND BY THE SIDE AND WATCH WOMEN GET RAPED, MEN GET STABBED ETC. BECAUSE IF YOU DO INTERFERE YOU WILL BECOME A �TERRORIST FOR ANTI-SOCIAL ELEMENTS.�

Mr. Khurmi opposes what Dr. Naik says and agrees with faithfreedom.org

So IF Mr. Khurmi sees his sister (all Indians are my brothers and sisters, remember?) getting raped by 5 people, he will not interfere, rather, he will call the police and wait for them to come. If the police comes, well and good. But if it doesn�t come, he will still stand around and watch his sister get raped, because if he gets into a fight with the rapists and terrorizes them, he will become a �TERRORIST FOR ANTI-SOCIAL ELEMENTS�. And NO, Mr. Khurmi strongly opposes that, don�t you Mr. Khurmi?

______________________________________________

P.S.: Harebrained people like you who do not have any idea of Islam, haven�t read a single verse of the Quran like to make profound criticisms of the religion. Seriously man, how low on self-respect and dignity do you have to be make statement against Islam because of what few idiotic people calling themselves Muslims are doing?

When Hindus, killed 845 Muslims and displaced 100,000 in Gujarat, I dont remember myself saying, �Hinduism is bad�. I said, �The Govt. is corrupt.� But people like you would�ve seen the Godhra carnage and said, �Islam is such a depraved religion.�

First learn about the religion, then pass ur wise-ass comments.
you can get in touch with me if you want to at: pseudo_ku@yahoo.com

Yours truly,
an Indian

.

*****************************************

From Rick

To Mohmmad Ali

Why dont you argue at faithfreedon.org with Ali Sina? He is actually well versed in Kuran and ex-muslim. He knows everything about Islam. Actually he is inviting people to prove him wrong. We want people like you to argue with him and to prove your point not with people who dont know Kuran.

All the Best.

*****************************************

From Rick

Mohmmad Ali

I mean its no use to convince your point to those who doesnot know anything about Islam. Please go to that site and prove him wrong.

.

*****************************************

From B Shantanu

Mohammed,

First of all, I am not sure if you even saw the video that I had linked in my post � Unfortunately, it is no longer available on the site that I had linked (I will try and find another link).

Secondly, I am not sure about Dr Zakir Naik�s definition of a terrorist;

According to you, he says: �A terrorist is a person who causes terror� � That is not entirely true (it is too simplistic).� According to most definitions, a terrorist is a person who uses violence or threats of violence for political purposes or as a political weapon.

So, a policeman is not a terrorist.

And why should a Muslim be a terrorist for anyone? If any person is so keen to help maintain law and order, should he/she not join the police or the army?

And should he/she not become a law-abiding citizen first and foremost?

A �terrorist� is NOT �a person who causes terror among the common people� � a terrorist is someone who takes innocent lives, who is ready to kill innocents for furthering his cause and ideology.

As the faithfreedom..org site says, �We have a whole structure set in place to deal with criminals. Under what law average citizens can assume the role of the entire legal system?�

Think about it instead of dismissing it out of hand. And instead of calling others immature, think first whether you understand the concepts of law, state, �power� and crime � I do not mean understand in the dictionary sense of the word but understand within the political context that these terms are used.

I will not get into an argument about the example you give � except to say that it rests upon a false premise: viz. it is OK to do nothing if you see a wrong being committed. It is not OK to just watch when a wrong is being committed � in fact, it is the �Dharma� of every righteous person to do his/her best to prevent a wrong being committed.

Above all, there can be no argument against the legal use of power and force residing solely with the state as opposed to individuals (which you seem to propose).

As for being a wise-ass (if that is directed towards me), I am very careful about the comments I make and if I have made a comment without justification, I will be the first to apologise for it.

We are not trying to be wise-asses – just trying to understand what is happening around us.

Thanks for joining the debate.

.

*****************************************

From Panam

With due respect to everyone, but i have to write when innocents are killed all over the world because of some fanatic guys, and nobody is ready to take responsibilities but starts finding faults of Hindus.

Honestly speaking, water in the stomach of muslims will not even rattle when something happens with Hindus, but if single muslim is arrested they will make hue and cry.

Why Hindus have been driven from Kashmir? Why today Kashmiri Hindus are Refugees in their own country?

What happened to boggy of train in Dahod? who made fire on the boggy? pictures of burnt boggy speak for itself. Is there any justification for terror spread by bin-laden in the world.

Who is bad in UK, US, Russia, Afghanistan and many more countries where innocents are killed daily. Why Muslims are acting like Modi in the world?

They just have one example to sting on Modi. It is hyped by NGO�s., without looking into the matter who burnt boggy and killed innocents Hindus init. What about the innocent hindus of Kashmir? Why they are not Indian?

Many mother have lost their sons and husbands.
Hindus are expected to be deaf and dumb. Not to write , not to speak, not to comment. Its too much

Why all these attack on England, according to you may be it is because of only Modi and Modi did?

What about 7/11, mumbai stock exchange, Lord ganeshas temple, swaminarayan temple. Why this is not enough?

Why in Islam Apostasy means death? Aren�t they human?

Before pointing towards anyone one must retrospect and should improve their own community members.

Shantanu-I speak truth, I dont care about anyone�s feeling when it is time to attack terrorism in the world.

.

*****************************************

From Mohammed Ali

Dear Panam,
My post was addressed to Mr. Shantanu as both of us were having a exchange of views. Osama bin Laden is a covert cowardly man who sends innocents into a war by misinterpreting the Quran who�s benefits he reaps� If anyone called Osama bin Laden a hero, I would feel sorry for the person and would debate with him until I convinced him that Osama is a shame, a blot on the face of Islam.

Terrorism is not a simplistic idea where one man tells another to go blow up a place and the other man tacitly complies. There are several other aspects involved which I will not explain to you. Read Noam Chomsky or Arundhati Roy. And more importantly, as far as apostasy is concerned, you should read the Quran and you�ll know better. the following are two lines in the Quran

La iqra fi ad din – There shall be no compulsion in religion
Lakum dinakum walayeddin – your religion for you and mine for me

What some people do is visit anti-islam sites where things like this� Apostasy,Polygamy etc are typed out in bold. You miss the point entirely. I�m sure you haven�t made an attempt to read the Quran. And since you have read the opinion of Islam-blasphemers (Bin Laden, faithfeedom etc are among them), I would like to know what you felt when you read about apostasy in a pro-islam site?

Please tell me the name of the pro-islam site you visited to clarify and compare with what the anti-islam site has written. Also, it would be very helpful if you told me why you found the pro-islam site so unconvincing that you chose to side with the anti-islam site on apostasy.

If you havent done what I have pointed out in the previous paragraph, then I think a little introspection is required Panam.

*****************************************

From Mohammed Ali

one more thing Panam�
To justify the killing of innocent defenseless Muslims by Modi saying that Bin Laden did it somehwere else and why people are not questioning that, is not the way an argument is pursued.

In my previous post, I condemned Bin Laden and called him un-Islamic. I haven�t called him a HERO

.

*****************************************

From Mohammed Ali

As the faithfreedom..org site says, �We have a whole structure set in place to deal with criminals. Under what law average citizens can assume the role of the entire legal system?�

There is not a single point in Zakir�s passage that hints about Muslims (or) average citizens assuming the position of the entire legal system . The faithfreedom guy just made it up and you are seconding his point. In simple words, what Zakir merely said was Muslims should strike terror in the minds of anti-social elements like thieves, dacoits and rapists.

In the broader political context, if he wanted to tell them to become real �poltical terrorists� i.e. indulging in some kind of reprobate act where the loss of hundreds of lives takes place (which terrorists are doing today), he wouldn�t have said to terrorise anti-social elements. He just means thieves, dacoits and rapists. And as I said in my previous post, a rapist should get scared of an ordinary citizen, so should a dacoit and a thief.

What Zakir said is as clear as water. By saying stuff like he wants muslims to replace the justice system etc is just putting words in his mouth.

The post was directed to a Mr. Khurmi who says things like,
�Yusuf Khan� had to change his name to �Daleep Kumar� ! Now a days it has become EXACTLY opposite ! Today a Daleep Kumar had change his name to �A. R. Rahman� to get a foothold in the industry ! This is because now the things move according to wishes of his excellency Mian Dawood Ibrahim and his other bhai-log from the wonderful world of Islamic terror. No wonder today to become a hero you have to be a Khan.

That is the rhetoric he exudes. So I had to use an extreme example.

Just for my information, are there any posts on your blog condemning the Hindu-led state sponsored riots by the Ugly Indian (Modi) in which pregnant muslim women had their wombs slit and their unborn infants thrown into the fire? And are there any questions asked whether the fault is with the people or the religion of Hinduism itself. Whether Hindutva taught them (since they were chanting the name of Ram when they did these despicable acts) to do what I have cited in bold? Please point me to such posts on your site� It would make interesting reading.

I wouldn�t be surprised if you said that Muslims deserved what they got. This is another comment i found on your site which is meant to promote debate and disussion:

�H.E. Mr Modi-ji is the iconic hero of Indian citizens. He needs our appreciation for countering jihadi violence though feebly during post-Godhra days! Kudos and sabaash to him!�

clap!clap!clap!
Wah.. Kya baat hai

P.S.: Now please dont give me a reply saying that you did not say the above and its just another person�s opinion.

P.P.S: you haven�t even stepped close to the periphery of questioning hero worship of a Mr. Modi, so i�ll assume you agree with the statement.

your truly,
pseudo_ku@yahoo.com
(If i haven�t met ur standards of use of language etc. do notify me).

.

*****************************************

From Mohammed Ali

And MR. Shantanu I wrote the post for which Panam replied in order to further our discussion on the Zakir issue.

Whenever you reply to my post, I ask of you a favour. Please copy and paste parts of my post and then reply to each one in particular, and I shall do the same, in the larger interest of meaningful mutually beneficial discussion�

yours truly
pseudo_ku@yahoo.com

.

PLEASE CONTINUE THE DISCUSSION THROUGH COMMENTS BELOW

UPDATE: See also excerpts from Sadia Dehlvi’s article on this comment: http://satyameva-jayate.org/2008/09/07/shabana-azmi-on-muslims/#comment-16941

Original here: http://indianmuslims.in/zakir-naik-yazid-fatwa/

UPDATE – II

Some of you may also find this discussion on another blog fascinating. On that discussion, Thiagan has mentioned four points which I am paraphrasing below: (actually five points but I will leave the fifth one since it crosses the line for this discussion)

I would really like a response on these questions:

Is it really possible for a Muslim who is a believer to:

1. Acknowledge that all religions are equal?
2. Reject gender discrimination?
3. Have transcending loyalty to host country?
4. Renounce the establishment of worldwide Islamic rule at a future date and universal imposition of sharia?

***

Related Post: Excerpts from “Can Islam Reform Itself?”

Part II – Join the discussion on Islam, Hindutva, Dr Zakir Naik

July 8th, 2007 Posted by | Current Affairs, Debates & Discussions, Distortions, Misrepresentation about Hinduism, Hindu Dharma, Islam & Terrorism | 160 comments

160 Comments

  1. ketaki , u r missing the point that zorastrians were rulers ,yet a minority . and the whole of iran did not come to india . it was a section of the trading and industrial community who fled fearing a danger to their lives . it happens even today all over the world . in 1991 , many kuwaiti rich arabs fled to UK and US , AFTER IRAQ INVADED IT .today most rich iraqis have fled to dubai . a lot of iranis fearing a US attack are shifting to dubai bases . during the irish war with britian , most irish rich shifted to america.besides eid is a religious festival in iran , where the majority is muslim . navruz is celebrated for many more days in iran today ,as a cultural festival.ketaki , before u read history u must learn to seperate conflicts and spiritualism ,religion and regionalism,human greed and human kindness.a history of invasions and wars only talks about brutal killings and destruction. they never talk about how humanity stood up after the destruction to reconstruct human lives .if the base of islam was falsehood , if every muslim was a killer let loose , do u think muslims would survive even in a muslim nation ?? muslims do not kill only non muslims , they kill a lot of their co religionists as well . it is greed and power that drives these acts rather than the koran.a human weakness for political space created groups that created ‘dirty politics ‘ resulting in justification of human killings and hate culture.yet the majority of common people of all faiths died in these conflicts and their sacrifice did not go waste . the world has survived to live for another day . the politics of human killings can be a ‘power based’ ideology and not a religion at all.the base of every religion was to subsidise human violence and killings , and spread love and hope .it may have recieved a few setbacks but ultimately it will triumph and settle down .

    Comment by tarique | November 9, 2008

  2. a muslim boy went up to a moulvi and complained that his call for prayer (azaan)had no sweet melody in it . the moulvi shot back ”at a salary of 1200 per month do u a expect a mohammed rafi out of my voice ”

    Comment by tarique | November 9, 2008

  3. iam sorry if iam wrong with this. One brother had asked that why did allah make this life on earth untill 7th century does make mistake. I want to ask him why do u have such a long period grow up and require food to feed ur self simply u say u and i require food to energy thats the solution u have brother allah! if wanted to make them he can and u also bcz on this earth every one life standig on his denstiny written by Allah condisdering all aspects u r in and because u and expects some but happen or not but the creater doesn’t expect any thing because he is more superior to our knowledge than u and i and any one on this earth who had life cann’t say how superior is god ALLAH almity even messneger also they also expect only but creature of u me and every one every living creature on this and this whole universe u can’t find end point but he knows every thing.
    And now my quession is that how can i proove that living beigns who born with flesh and blood on this earth cannot be equal to AllAH. how ?

    Comment by khadar basha | February 7, 2009

  4. @ Khadar: I could not understand the point you are trying to make…

    Can you pl. explain? or be a bit clearer?

    ***

    @ All: I am considering opening a second thread here if the number of comments exceeds 155….

    Comment by B Shantanu | February 8, 2009

  5. There is no God but Allah, and Muhammad (pbuh) is the Messenger of Allah.

    A Muslim believes in the existence of that which is beyond human perception. A Muslim believes in Allah and His attributes. A Muslim believes in the angels, the scriptures, and the Prophets. A Muslim believes in the Hereafter and what it entails of the Resurrection, Heaven and Hell, the Balance, and the Bridge and other details mentioned in the Quran and the authentic Sunnah. So without Imaan, we would not even exist.

    From what you guys state here, I am afraid you have read or learnt nothing about Islam.

    Anyhow.. Dr Zakir Naik is not trying to prove the Quran to be the word of God, with the help of science. What he is trying to do, he brings a compatibility, and shows the superiority Quran – That what your science has told us yesterday… Quran has told us 14 hundred years ago. He is trying to prove that our yard stick… the Muslim yardstick… the Quran, is far superior to your yard stick – The science. Therefore, you should believe in Quran, which is far superior.

    Bible was not revealed in English – It is Old Testament in Hebrew, New Testament in Greek. Though Jesus Christ peace be upon him, spoke Hebrew – But the original Manuscript that you have – it is in Greek. The Old Testament, the original Hebrew is not available – do you know that? The Hebrew translation of the Old Testament is from the Greek – So even the original Old Testament, which is in Hebrew, is not present in Hebrew. So you have a double problem – No wonder you have scribal errors, etc. But the Quran – Alhamdulillah, the original Arabic is maintained. It has been… Alhamdulillah scientifically – you can prove it is the same.

    The Quran says in Surah Al-Rad, Chapter. 13, Verse 38, that Allah Subhanawataala has sent down several Revelations. By name only 4 are mentioned – The Torah, the Zaboor, the Injeel and the Quran. The Torah is the Wahi, which was given to Moses, peace be upon him. The Zaboor is the Revelation, the Wahi which was given to David, peace be upon him. Injeel is the Revelation, Wahi which was given to Jesus, peace be upon him. And Quran is the last and final Revelation which was given to the last and final Messenger, Prophet Mohammed, may peace be upon him.

    But the present Bible is not the Injeel, which we believe in, which, was revealed to Jesus Christ peace be upon him. This Bible according to us, it may contain the words of God – But it also contains words of Prophets, words of historians, it contains absurdities, obscenity, as well as innumerable scientific errors. If there are scientific points mentioned in the Bible – there are possibilities – why not? It may be part of the word of God, in the Bible. But what about the scientific errors? – What about the unscientific portions? – Can you attribute this to God?

    As Jesus Christ, peace be upon him said…‘Search ye the truth, and the truth shall free you.’ We have the Old Testament, we have the New Testament – Now you should follow the Last and Final Testament, which is the Glorious Quran.

    We have many a number of versions of the Bible and it does not exist anymore in the original form either in memory or text anywhere on the earth, nor has it existed as such for at least 1,500 or more years. Infact none of the religious scripture exist in its original form… they have been revised. The Quran on the other hand, is exactly preserved and memorized as it was during the lifetime of the holy prophet, peace be upon him. The teachings of Islam from the Quran and the hadeeth of Muhammad, peace be upon him, are very clear and available in the original texts in Arabic for whomsoever would like to read them. Allah has said that he would preserve His deen till eternity.

    ISLAM is a great religion – it represents the final word of god – it is a matter of individual conscience whether you accept or reject it at an existential level — one man could not be defeated over a period of 23 years -despite attempts at assasination — there are now 1.3 billion muslims and fourteen centuries of history-god will defend his own faith. If a person could not arrive at belief through the miracle of his own intellect, after obviously having studied Islam thoroughly enough to debate with a Muslim, nothing could turn his heart.

    “Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they (incur).” (Qur‘an 2:7).

    Prof. Tejasen accepted Islam on the strength of just one scientific ‘sign’ mentioned in the Quran. Some people may require ten signs while some may require hundred signs to be convinced about the Divine origin of the Quran. Some would be unwilling to accept the Truth even after being shown a thousand signs. The Quran condemns such a closed mentality in the verse:

    “Deaf, dumb and blind, They will not return (To the path).” [Al-Quran 2:18]

    The Quran contains a complete code of life for the individual and society. Alhamdulillah (Praise be to Allah), the Quranic way of life is far superior to the ‘isms’ that modern man has invented out of sheer ignorance. Who can give better guidance than the Creator Himself? I pray that this humble effort is accepted by Allah, to whom I pray for mercy and guidance (Aameen).

    Also, all your answers to the questions you posted here are at the below post. I dont intend to attack your thoughts, all I want is to present to you the truth.. Islam as it is and not as many non-muslims think it to be. As I said.. want to clear the air.

    http://navedz.wordpress.com/2009/02/06/is-the-quran-god%e2%80%99s-word/
    http://navedz.wordpress.com/2008/12/24/the-quran-and-modern-science-compatible-or-incompatible/
    http://navedz.wordpress.com/2008/12/30/then-which-of-the-favours-of-your-lord-will-you-deny/

    People try and link terrorists with Islam which is wrong. Terrorists do not have a religion. They use it as a mantle to do what their religion forbids. At its heart is the desire to meet their own narrow agenda.

    If we look into the historic records, it proves that a large number of terrorist acts in the 20th and 21st century were committed by non-Muslims. The so-called global phenomenon of “Islamic terrorism/militant Islam” was a creation of the western governments and their media outlets. Politics lies at the heart of labeling Muslims across the globe as perpetrators of terror acts.

    Dr. Zakir, who is one of the Muslim world’s leading and most prolific speakers, has quoted from the scriptures of other religions and has proved that associating killing with Islam is incorrect.

    “It says in the Book of Numbers that whoever worships other than God should be killed,” he said, referring to the Bible, yet such militant verses were conveniently ignored by the Western media.

    “In every religion there are black sheep and the media keep putting these people forward. This is a media conspiracy and a way of pushing people away from Islam.” he added.

    No religion encourages terrorist acts or violence. Islam is a religion of PEACE. It doesn’t teach us to kill unlike other religions. Muslims start their greetings with “As-salaam-wa Alaikum Wa Rahmatu Allah Wa Barakatuh”, which means in English “May GOD’s peace, mercy and blessings be upon you.”

    Allah states : “Whoever kills a human being [unjustly]… then it is as though he has killed all mankind; and whoever saves a human life it is as though he had saved all mankind.”

    No one probably ever heard of such a stunning message of peace, which considers killing just one person (be it innocent or not) tantamount to killing the entire humanity? The doubters should not have any more skepticism about Muslim’s claim that “Islam is a religion of peace”. The unjustified criticisms of and spitting venoms at Islam by the hateful Islam-bashers got to stop now.

    Palestinians are called terrorists just because they are fighting to get their land back. We can cite the examples of LTTE (in Sri Lanka), IRA (in UK), Lord’s Salvation Army, which trains the young children to conduct terrorist attacks, and many other non-Muslim terrorist outfits. The lives claimed by these outfits are more than the ones by the SO CALLED Muslim terrorists.

    Naxalites/Maoists across India and the LTTE in Sri Lanka were non- Muslim terror organisations, which had had developed pan regional bases beyond national boundaries. Other such non-Muslim terror outfits included the United Liberation Front of Asom, National Democratic Front of Bodoland and All Tripura Tiger Force in the Northeast.

    On international examples, the Japanese Red Army, Lord’s Salvation Army and the ETA in Spain were also non-Islamic in character and composition.

    So nothing is more removed from truth as to suggest that Muslims have monopolized terrorism. The Irish Republican Army, which was considered to be terrorist group, has a history of 100 years of violence against the British, but the British government doesn’t seem to be scared about them as they are about radical Islamic groups. Besides, even a single killing by a Muslim is condemned by Islam, whatsoever the reasons. Islam does not justify using wrong means to reach the right goals. People should not take the law in their hands.

    India has seen maximum number of communal riots in recent years. Politicians have been using the ‘Divide and Rule Policy’ to secure their vote banks. However, the masses should not get instigated by them. Terrorism is a monopoly of politicians. People, regardless of their religion, wish to live harmonious lives, but politicians feed the feeling of hatred amongst them.

    What is happening in Palestine.. some people have the opinion that it is muslim terrorsim. I think you are not aware of what has been happening.. they need to read the authentic history. you would know about the biggest ever robbery in history for 20th century.. read up on the history of Palestine and Israel.

    Read about a group of people homeless in Europe. Read about them set their eyes on a land they not only wanted to live in, but rule over. Read about them coming into Palestine and throwing people out of their homes, bulldozing them down and making people refugees in their own land. Read about bloodshed, read about their domination, occupation spreading like a infectious disease. Read about their sophisticated missiles and tanks, whose design, manufacture was aided in Britain and America; massacre families, and the resistance of the Palestinians named as terrorism. Palestinians who grew up generation after generation in the muddy squalor of refugee camps in their own land attempted to fight this occupation with whatever they had. Read it all.

    http://navedz.wordpress.com/2009/01/08/top-5-lies-about-israel%e2%80%99s-assault-on-gaza/
    http://navedz.wordpress.com/2008/12/03/the-biggest-robbery-of-the-20th-century/

    For further interaction visit my site http://navedz.wordpress.com/

    Regards,

    Naved Zia

    .
    *** Pl. continue the discussion on this thread ***

    Comment by Naved Zia | May 12, 2009

  6. @Naved:

    What would you have to say about this discourse on your prophet?
    http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/History.htm

    And, allah is the only god? What a terribly, terribly narrow view to have … have you looked at my god? You can find his noodlyness here:
    http://www.venganza.org

    Seriously, get a life or at least stop wasting the one that you currently have.

    Cheers

    Comment by Patriot | May 12, 2009

  7. “hat what your science has told us yesterday… Quran has told us 14 hundred years ago. He is trying to prove that our yard stick… the Muslim yardstick… the Quran, is far superior to your yard stick – The science.”

    Ummmmmm, really? Some evidence please?

    Just the proof that the Quran discovered penicillin should be enough?

    Oh and yes, cars.

    Thank you.

    Comment by Patriot | May 12, 2009

  8. BTW, Naved, you say:

    “The Quran on the other hand, is exactly preserved and memorized as it was during the lifetime of the holy prophet, peace be upon him”

    Reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllly? Pls prove this with a proper chain of custody evidence link.

    Thank you

    Comment by Patriot | May 12, 2009

  9. Oh, Naved, one final thing:

    As I read Islamic history and history of the Arabian peninsula, I find that Mohammad drove out the Jews from Medina for being non-believers, and killed all those who refused to convert or leave.

    So, if we are setting right historical wrongs, I think we should start with Medina – pls let me know when the muslim community is ready to hand it over to the jews.

    Also, since you say that Islam does not justify the killing of any innocent and that wrong means for a right end are unacceptable, I trust that you are going to write a post denouncing Faizullah and Osama bin Laden. Send me a link when you have done that.

    Thanks.

    .
    *** Pl. continue the discussion on this thread ***

    Comment by Patriot | May 12, 2009

  10. *** NOTE by MODERATOR ***

    Comments on this post may please be continued on this link (Part II) .

    This is to avoid comment overload on a single thread. Please continue the discussion here:Join the discussion on Islam, Hindutva, Dr Zakir Naik – Part II

    Thanks.

    Comment by B Shantanu | May 15, 2009

Sorry, the comment form is closed at this time.